SZZS specific CEF50-main thread (initial builds and troubleshooting related only)

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Question for the group.
When a designer determines that a frame is made for XXXmm of travel are they including sag in the design?
In other words is a frame designed for 170mm fork really a 150mm design given a typical 20mm sag?

No.
Sag is just the amount the suspension compressing under a riders body weight.
Most mtb/emtb suspension designs will encompass sag into the equation to ensure that regardless of frame size & body weight, the consistency of the kinematics are near enough the same.

The same is true for using volume spacers as well.

PSI used to achieve 30% sag for the CEF50 will vary from rider to rider. And subject to how much bottom-out support they require, a rider will use a bigger or smaller volume spacer

 

[patdam]

Question for the group.
When a designer determines that a frame is made for XXXmm of travel are they including sag in the design?
In other words is a frame designed for 170mm fork really a 150mm design given a typical 20mm sag?

Does your interrogation is about angles measured in regard of angles mentioned in description by manufacturer ?

 

[mike_kelly]

I guess it is directly related. I was just thinking about sag and how it affects the actual travel of the fork. Since each frame is designed to have a specific travel fork it seems like it is important to know if the sag is considered since it can subtract 20mm from a typical fork.

 

[patdam]

I guess it is directly related. I was just thinking about sag and how it affects the actual travel of the fork. Since each frame is designed to have a specific travel fork it seems like it is important to know if the sag is considered since it can subtract 20mm from a typical fork.

Not tested for the moment, butThat i constat with my XL with 150 fork and 2x 29", i have 63.5 for fork angle, 1305 wheelbase. those value are extrem for me and i can not doing what i wanted, with more front travel and 27.5 rear. Because that will reduced fork angle and increase wheelbase.
The only possibility whould be to use 27.5 front, but i prefer keeping 29. Does somebody use 170 front ? on which kind of tracks (fast rolling track, slow single track, technical, engaged) ?

I constat also that the seat angle is a lot of more than other bikes used until now and needs to modified a lot my position. have you reduced seat/handelbar length and handelbar height, or increase BB/handelbar length ? Compared to your usual values.

 

[streyer]

FYI,
View attachment 129597
New design for the headset cable routing for the CEF50.
It looks similar to the Nukeproof ebike headset.
I'll share with you all my experiences shortly

Hi Neeko,
Can we purchase the headset stand alone, is it available on aliexpress?

 

[tepe]

How do you rate the durability of the frame? Has anyone tried larger jumps/drops?

 

[mike_kelly]

Not tested for the moment, butThat i constat with my XL with 150 fork and 2x 29", i have 63.5 for fork angle, 1305 wheelbase. those value are extrem for me and i can not doing what i wanted, with more front travel and 27.5 rear. Because that will reduced fork angle and increase wheelbase.
The only possibility whould be to use 27.5 front, but i prefer keeping 29. Does somebody use 170 front ? on which kind of tracks (fast rolling track, slow single track, technical, engaged) ?

I constat also that the seat angle is a lot of more than other bikes used until now and needs to modified a lot my position. have you reduced seat/handelbar length and handelbar height, or increase BB/handelbar length ? Compared to your usual values.

One thing I have used in the past are angle set headsets. They are made by a number of companies like Wolftooth, Cane Creek and 9point8. They change the angle of the front fork up or down. But I have not found one to fit a ZS66 lower cup headset.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Hi Neeko,
Can we purchase the headset stand alone, is it available on aliexpress?

Apologies for the delay.
I've asked GT-CYCLES Store to separately list them as a item to buy. As soon as they've done it, I'll share the link

 

[TCFlowClyde]

All right. Putting it out there for the pop-up tool to replace the top tube cap.

I asked Linda to consider aquiring it from one of their clients that markets the CEF50 under their brand name and that makes the pop-up tool compartment.

She finally got a sample. She said the SZZS engineer thought that it was not well made plastic and that it had to retro-fitted with extra screw holes. So, they won't be ordering any.

Personally, I'd be fine with just a empty storage compartment for soft items. Anything to utilize the hole practically.

Yes, I know peeps have varying opinions, but I'm pushing hard for them to make something other than just a cap that's not really water-tight.

And yep, I thought about just sealing the cap off with glue on the new warranty frame. Initially, I was going to carbon-patch it before I painted it, until I saw the pop-up multi-tool a few months ago.

Anyway, if you're up for specifically for a small storage compartment let Linda or Jean know. If enough ask, they just might respond affirmatively.

 

[DirtyCurty]

Jean said they were in the sample making process. Once confirmed mass production will start and will notify once avaliable.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Jean said they were in the sample making process. Once confirmed mass production will start and will notify once avaliable.

Great!

Did Jean say what they were making exactly...Linda was unclear.

A similar pop-up tool compartment, or an empty, small storage hidey-hole? Either one works but thinking simple is quicker and less trouble mechanically.

 

[patdam]

One thing I have used in the past are angle set headsets. They are made by a number of companies like Wolftooth, Cane Creek and 9point8. They change the angle of the front fork up or down. But I have not found one to fit a ZS66 lower cup headset.

Yes, i have search also and not found

 

[DirtyCurty]

Great!

Did Jean say what they were making exactly...Linda was unclear.

A similar pop-up tool compartment, or an empty, small storage hidey-hole? Either one works but thinking simple is quicker and less trouble mechanically.

Jean sent the photo of the pop up tool image. This was 2 weeks ago not sure if you have been talking with Linda more recently. I can inquire again to confirm the pop up tool compartment will be avaliable.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Jean sent the photo of the pop up tool image. This was 2 weeks ago not sure if you have been talking with Linda more recently. I can inquire again to confirm the pop up tool compartment will be avaliable.

Yeah, I sent a pic from our thread in late October to Linda....Jean seems to be the most accurate contact from my experience. Unfortunately Linda isn't always up to date or 100% clear. So, whatever recent updates Jean has is good.

 

[Herculesridesebikes]

I seem to be having excessive headset creaking I've taken it apart and regressed the bearings but after a few rides it persists. I even reinstalled the bottom cup as I thought it may be the culprit but after a few rides I get the same creaking again. Any suggestions? I'm using the nukeproof headset and the stock bottom bearings.

 

[kaylee.s]

I seem to be having excessive headset creaking I've taken it apart and regressed the bearings but after a few rides it persists. I even reinstalled the bottom cup as I thought it may be the culprit but after a few rides I get the same creaking again. Any suggestions? I'm using the nukeproof headset and the stock bottom bearings.

My lightcarbon lce930 is doing the same thing. No solution yet.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

@Herculesridesebikes & @kaylee.s , what headsets are you using?

 

[kaylee.s]

@Herculesridesebikes & @kaylee.s , what headsets are you using?

I'm using the original one that came with my lce930. Sounds like @Herculesridesebikes is using a nukeproof.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

I'm using the original one that came with my lce930. Sounds like @Herculesridesebikes is using a nukeproof.

Is this the headset you're using?

 

[Herculesridesebikes]

@Herculesridesebikes & @kaylee.s , what headsets are you using?

Using the nukeproof ZS56 on the top and just the stock bottom bearings and cup that came with the frame.

Really off putting,

 

[kaylee.s]

Is this the headset you're using? View attachment 130041

This is the lightcarbon one.

 

[Pinkee]

I seem to be having excessive headset creaking I've taken it apart and regressed the bearings but after a few rides it persists. I even reinstalled the bottom cup as I thought it may be the culprit but after a few rides I get the same creaking again. Any suggestions? I'm using the nukeproof headset and the stock bottom bearings.

I have the same issue. My e10 is rock solid, but my CEF creaks like a 200 year old house.

I have even gone as far as gluing in the cups, but still the same.

 

[Herculesridesebikes]

I have the same issue. My e10 is rock solid, but my CEF creaks like a 200 year old house.

I have even gone as far as gluing in the cups, but still the same.

I thought about that, it's so annoying. I'm curious if it's the frame or if another headset would eliminate the issue

 

[Pinkee]

I thought about that, it's so annoying. I'm curious if it's the frame or if another headset would eliminate the issue

I will admit, after gluing the cups, it only creaks left to right. (Weight on left bar end, then weight on right). I have nukeproof upper and oem lower.

 

[tepe]

View attachment 129716

What headset you are using? It's one from factory?

 

[mike_kelly]

I use nukeproof upper and lower, two bikes, no creaking.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

I too haven't had any creeking in the headset.

This headset will be arriving for next week. So I'll let you know how I get along with it.

Truth be told, I haven't had issues with this headset either. Granted, I'm aware that some members have expressed concern for the cables being damaged if not routed in a specific way.

My best guess would be that it might be either the bearings, the bearing upper race or, the crown race.

But I'll study both (along with the Nukeproof headset) to see if it's an easy fix for all of you

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Not bad...Just the weight issue.

Wet weight vs. dry weight. I'm about 45.5-46 lbs on a 180 Zeb (27.5er) and large frame, 2.4 tires, and 720 Wh battery with lighter componentry w/o pedals, or industry "dry weight" standard. Close to the Transition Relay premium carbon build PNW edition (even with the bigger battery).

Weight savings comes from the CEF50 frame having no battery cover and latch system in comparison to the Relay. It's up to 2.5 lbs + savings for a motor-dismounted battery system.

Now add pedals, full Victtoria inserts with 27.5x3.0/2.8+ tires, and 160 ml of sealant, I get another 48 -48.5 lbs.. This is ready-to-ride and the "wet weight".

This in contrast to my M600 full-powered carbon build with 1000 Wh soft-pack battery at 58 lbs +/- wet weight.

So, agility and lift-weight is key. While I sacrifice 25+ Nm of usable torque, and 280 Wh of battery, I get 10 lbs of shedding maneuverability in return. More svelt bang for the money.

 

[Herculesridesebikes]

I too haven't had any creeking in the headset.
View attachment 130066
This headset will be arriving for next week. So I'll let you know how I get along with it.
View attachment 130067
Truth be told, I haven't had issues with this headset either. Granted, I'm aware that some members have expressed concern for the cables being damaged if not routed in a specific way.

My best guess would be that it might be either the bearings, the bearing upper race or, the crown race.

But I'll study both (along with the Nukeproof headset) to see if it's an easy fix for all of you

Thanks, I'll be reinstalling soon and see if I can't get rid of it.