SZZS specific CEF50-main thread (initial builds and troubleshooting related only)

[TCFlowClyde]

With SRAM Transmission, the concern that some have, is that with no 'fuse' in place as there is no hanger any longer to fail, that something more expensive will fail instead.

In reality AXS has a very robust clutch mechanism that gives way during side impacts. Since Eagle Transmission is literally held in place by the axle, well you'd have to break the axle to actually move the derailleur in that plane and damage the frame. Hint: the derailleur would fail first. Maybe not helpful since the derailleur cost as much as new chainstays.

What I do think is possible is for the Eagle Transmission to get snagged on the front edge and rotated straight back. This could potentially strip out the hanger receiver molds in the bikes CF chainstay, possibly destroying that interface.

IME, the old AXS is freaky strong and I ran it for years with only one problem where the battery would no longer hold a charge. New battery fixed it right up. That AXS after 3 years of abuse is now on my wife's bike cause she says her thumb hurts when she shifts cables.

I greatly prefer 11 speed cable shift personally. It's not a $ issue for me.

AXS GX almost 2 yrs... works great on my Bafang M600-120Nm high torque motor... precision shifting every time. Luv it!

Probably time to refresh my battery with a new one soon too!

 

[spokémon]

What I do think is possible is for the Eagle Transmission to get snagged on the front edge and rotated straight back. This could potentially strip out the hanger receiver molds in the bikes CF chainstay, possibly destroying that interface.

yikes! that's not good.
Will this still be an issue if say I run Microshift 10sp group on UDH?
I guess what I'm asking is, is this a UDH specification flaw? Or is this just related to SRAM Transmision.

 

[mike_kelly]

To use UDH with a Microshift 10 sp you use a derailleur hanger not direct mount like T

 

[spokémon]

The interest to use bafang battery, is that BMS can communicate with the HMI and you can displayed several informations of the battery use. For what i know, nothing other batteries can do that. in addition of you don't need to build adaptations to usfix the battery.

Does anyone know what data will/not be displayed by going with 3rd party battery vs oem.
What about extender batteries (oem or 3rd party), how will they be displayed if you have both batteries connected?

 

[LAnton]

Ok, so I was going to ask all of you if you’re experiencing the same delays as I am. I am over a month beyond the original quoted date. Frustrating! On top of that I keep asking for pics of my painted frame, which is done and Linda keeps telling me “later I will send them”.

My second frame has been painted for a long time. But I'm waiting for the second motor. And it's been going on for a month. I guessed that there would be delays with the motor and so I ordered a second motor from another seller. I bought the first motor from this seller. I liked that exactly 20 days later it was already in stock. According to the terms, they keep their word. I didn't like that I was sent a dpc244 remote control, and I ordered dpc245. Now I will have 3 motors. A spare motor is always needed.

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[mike_kelly]

Does anyone know what data will/not be displayed by going with 3rd party battery vs oem.
What about extender batteries (oem or 3rd party), how will they be displayed if you have both batteries connected?

The Bafang displays are canbus, like many cars, each device like the batteries have intelligent controllers that can be queried by the display for data about voltage, current and power. A third party battery can not talk to the canbus at all, unless it is a Bafang compatible device.

 

[stuff]

Need to reprint the bafang 410 supports in PETG CF filament so it’ll hold and im ready to start building it FINALLY.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

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Need to reprint the bafang 410 supports in PETG CF filament so it’ll hold and im ready to start building it FINALLY.

Good fix!

 

[temon10]

View attachment 114239

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Need to reprint the bafang 410 supports in PETG CF filament so it’ll hold and im ready to start building it FINALLY.

Black frame also look nice. Mine still waiting unloading process on port after long holiday here

 

[Suns_PSD]

S5 KSL?

Sorry, posted that request in the wrong thread.
Apologies.

 

[Suns_PSD]

You’ve had AXS for three years? I’ve never heard of such a thing.

I bought the original XX1 AXS in 2019 from a friend that was an industry insider, a few days before it was released and used it for years on 2 bikes.
It's now on it's 3rd bike, my wife's. Mondraker.

 

[Suns_PSD]

yikes! that's not good.
Will this still be an issue if say I run Microshift 10sp group on UDH?
I guess what I'm asking is, is this a UDH specification flaw? Or is this just related to SRAM Transmision.

No. Used with a normal derailleur UDH will operate as all derailleur hangers operate, as a disposable fuse in the system to protect other parts.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Black frame also look nice. Mine still waiting unloading process on port after long holiday here

Me too! Mine is still stuck in customs.

 

[Kenk3589]

View attachment 114239

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Need to reprint the bafang 410 supports in PETG CF filament so it’ll hold and im ready to start building it FINALLY.

Yay the review I’ve been waiting for. Please let us know what you find out for shock fitment.

 

[stuff]

Yay the review I’ve been waiting for. Please let us know what you find out for shock fitment.

Yeah, sorry I've been out for work for some weeks so it was impossible to progress or even physically be near the frame.
Finishing prints right now and also drawing the rubber grommets for where the shifter and rear brakes cables go by, also trying today different shocks (210x50,210x52.5,210x55) to test fitment and measure clearance

 

[stuff]

Initial measures:
Frame max shock extension: 214mm
Frame min shock extension: 157mm
What this means?
With a 210mm eye/eye shock, the maximum stroke can be 52.5mm, anything after that will contact/break the frame as @LAnton said before.

Now to install shocks and take some pictures for clearance. I wont be doing the coil one today since it's installed in my other bike but will go with the Rockshox SD Ultimate and Suntour TriAir, both with piggyback

 

[stuff]

SuperDeluxe fitting, 210x50. I’ll leave some measures but a MegNeg will fit 100% without any issues.
A Coil shock probably the only one fitting could be a cane creek, I will try when I have some time to mount the SuperDeluxe coil from my other bike, im not 100% sure it’ll fit

 

[dvng]

SuperDeluxe fitting, 210x50. I’ll leave some measures but a MegNeg will fit 100% without any issues.
A Coil shock probably the only one fitting could be a cane creek, I will try when I have some time to mount the SuperDeluxe coil from my other bike, im not 100% sure it’ll fit

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Looks like the nail is in the coffin for over stroking with a 216*63 coil shock

 

[Kenk3589]

SuperDeluxe fitting, 210x50. I’ll leave some measures but a MegNeg will fit 100% without any issues.
A Coil shock probably the only one fitting could be a cane creek, I will try when I have some time to mount the SuperDeluxe coil from my other bike, im not 100% sure it’ll fit

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Thank you for all the detailed info. Looking forward to seeing your build.

 

[stuff]

Looks like the nail is in the coffin for over stroking with a 216*63 coil shock

Indeed, I don't know if a coil will fit even with over stroking, but to get the max travel the best would be:
216x63 shock
2x1.5mm (or 2mm) offset bushing
7.5mm travel reducer.

This can be achieved for example with a DVO Topaz, DVO Jade, Float X or Suntour triair.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Yeah, sorry I've been out for work for some weeks so it was impossible to progress or even physically be near the frame.
Finishing prints right now and also drawing the rubber grommets for where the shifter and rear brakes cables go by, also trying today different shocks (210x50,210x52.5,210x55) to test fitment and measure clearance

On the 3-D battery tabs...excellent workaround by the way! SZZS should give you a 20% discount for research development consulting!

So, they'll fit all intube batteries offered by SZZS? The 410Wh for sure, but the bigger 72Wh too?

Like you suggested a few weeks back...that's got to save 300 +/- grams to get rid of the heavier, steal battery mounting bar?

Now pair that weight savings with @LAnton's 3 alloy motor mount bolts (plus alloy nuts and washers) saving another 100g. Maybe even ask his machine shop to make a group order for Titanium bolts instead for more strength in order to reduce the higher cost of Ti of course!

That could be another 400 g (+/-) or 0.88 lbs total off further weight savings. That's big! At least for these builds.

 

[stuff]

On the 3-D battery tabs...excellent workaround by the way! SZZS should give you a 20% discount for research development consulting!

So, they'll fit all intube batteries offered by SZZS? The 410Wh for sure, but the bigger 72Wh too?

Like you suggested a few weeks back...that's got to save 300 +/- grams to get rid of the heavier, steal battery mounting bar?

Now pair that weight savings with @LAnton's 3 alloy motor mount bolts (plus alloy nuts and washers) saving another 100g. Maybe even ask his machine shop to make a group order for Titanium bolts instead for more strength in order to reduce the higher cost of Ti of course!

That could be another 400 g (+/-) or 0.88 lbs total off further weight savings. That's big! At least for these builds.
View attachment 114425

Not really!
Im still using the steel bar since the 3d printed supports are to avoid the issue that bafang has with the battery tabs breaking.
Tho it would be quite easy to print an entire support and get rid of the steel bar, once I have the bike fully built i’ll start designing something to get rid of the extra weight

Btw: whoever has the BT F014 battery and needs the STLs to print the supports just let me know and i’ll share them, probably i’ll upload them to thingiverse

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Tho it would be quite easy to print an entire support and get rid of the steel bar, once I have the bike fully built i’ll start designing something to get rid of the extra weight

Sweet! That would be a 200 +/- g savings for plastic 3D big battery mount.

Then add another 100 g for Ti motor mounting bolts. Potentially, 300 +/- g weight shavings = 0.661 lbs still nice!

 

[mike_kelly]

Any chance the shock bolts happen to match up with an existing brand?

Burgtec Titanium Shock bolts for Santa Cruz

Save 18g over the standard steel bolts and add some bling to your pride and joy Made from 6AL-4V (Grade 5) titanium Does not corrode like the OE bolt can Set 1 fits 5010 V3, Bronson V3, Nomad V4, Hightower V2, Mega Tower V1 Set 2 fits most pre 2017 style Santa Cruz Set 3 fits Tallboy V4 and 5010...

burgtec-usa.com

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Any chance the shock bolts happen to match up with an existing brand?

Burgtec Titanium Shock bolts for Santa Cruz

Save 18g over the standard steel bolts and add some bling to your pride and joy Made from 6AL-4V (Grade 5) titanium Does not corrode like the OE bolt can Set 1 fits 5010 V3, Bronson V3, Nomad V4, Hightower V2, Mega Tower V1 Set 2 fits most pre 2017 style Santa Cruz Set 3 fits Tallboy V4 and 5010...

burgtec-usa.com

Maybe. Or these guys in US too? But not cheap.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Or the M5x35mm?

 

[LAnton]

On the 3-D battery tabs...excellent workaround by the way! SZZS should give you a 20% discount for research development consulting!

So, they'll fit all intube batteries offered by SZZS? The 410Wh for sure, but the bigger 72Wh too?

Like you suggested a few weeks back...that's got to save 300 +/- grams to get rid of the heavier, steal battery mounting bar?

Now pair that weight savings with @LAnton's 3 alloy motor mount bolts (plus alloy nuts and washers) saving another 100g. Maybe even ask his machine shop to make a group order for Titanium bolts instead for more strength in order to reduce the higher cost of Ti of course!

That could be another 400 g (+/-) or 0.88 lbs total off further weight savings. That's big! At least for these builds.
View attachment 114425

The CEF50 frame has a different bolt shape included.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

The CEF50 frame has a different bolt shape included.

Can your machine shop make Ti M820 bolts also?

 

[spokémon]

Tho it would be quite easy to print an entire support and get rid of the steel bar

Thanks for posting all this info. much appreciated.
Did you happen to weigh the steel bar itself? also whats the estimate weight of the 3D material.

Btw: whoever has the BT F014 battery and needs the STLs to print the supports just let me know and i’ll share them

I don't know if I will need it, but I feel like I want it
edit: did you weigh it?

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Thanks for posting all this info. much appreciated.
Did you happen to weigh the steel bar itself? also whats the estimate weight of the 3D material.


I don't know if I will need it, but I feel like I want it

I know but the quest to shed grams is compulsive on this build! Probably costly with Ti, However cumulatively it can all add up!