Dengfu E22 Frame Thread

[CaptainBobt]

Check out my activity on Strava: https://strava.app.link/gL3gVFHdjsb

View attachment 94247

How did you get the wattage and calorie to record ..? .. I'm completely new to Strava. I took a short ride today and it only had distance elevation speeds and time.

 

[CaptainBobt]

How did you get the wattage and calorie to record ..? .. I'm completely new to Strava. I took a short ride today and it only had distance elevation speeds and time.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

How did you get the wattage and calorie to record ..? .. I'm completely new to Strava. I took a short ride today and it only had distance elevation speeds and time.

I think it automatically calculates it based on your weight, and bike weight. You have to enter this into your profile I think. Then it just looks at the GPS data, elevation, speed etc and calculates it.

I think if you have power meter on cranks (more for road cycling) then that info can be also entered/logged. Same with heart rate etc from sports watchs etc.

 

[BonBond]

Hey Folks

I've just opened the box containing the headset that came with the frame, not seen anything like this before...is the idea that this effectively gets away from the need for a star nut? If so is it any good (and will it'll bugger up the steerer? I'm thinking about getting one of these nifty EDC setups at some point).

Cheers

[EDIT: ewwww, horrible focus]

 

[BonBond]

I am mounting my E22 and I have doubts about where to place the shift sensor.
I've thought about putting it inside the frame, where the shifter cable runs over the battery box.
Any ideas?

What did you figure out @Tomteam? Just looking now myself and pondering a solution, current thinking is this:

 

[Mabman]

Hey Folks

I've just opened the box containing the headset that came with the frame, not seen anything like this before...is the idea that this effectively gets away from the need for a star nut? If so is it any good (and will it'll bugger up the steerer? I'm thinking about getting one of these nifty EDC setups at some point).

Cheers

[EDIT: ewwww, horrible focus]

View attachment 94963

My headset kept coming loose and I finally figured out that was the cause. I replaced it with a properly set star fangled nut. Problem solved. I think those are mainly used for carbon fiber steerer tube forks and being a CF company DengFu sending them out that way kind of makes sense in all but practicality.

 

[BonBond]

My headset kept coming loose and I finally figured out that was the cause. I replaced it with a properly set star fangled nut. Problem solved. I think those are mainly used for carbon fiber steerer tube forks and being a CF company DengFu sending them out that way kind of makes sense in all but practicality.

cheers, anybody else using this stock part without issues?

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Ok, so I've been giving the battery aspect some thought and I've come up with two possible solutions which 'could' work, but I have yet to have tested
Technically speaking, one of these methods would only be applicable to the E22.

1. Range extender using the bottle cage - I'll need to liaise with a colleague of mine, as I've only ever seen 36v batteries in a bottle style. However if the prospects of building a 48v10amp battery in a bottle style is achievable, I'll commission the go ahead. Attaching a low profile DC 5.5 connector wouldn't be too difficult. Although, I'll need to work around the BMS switch.
Or,
2. Build a new battery system and locking mechanism - my suspension chap has often asked why Dengfu opted to use this battery design, considering they've used the Darfon battery design on other models. Nevertheless, I'm still working that part out. I've already ruled out using the Reention locking method, as this would prove too tricky.

I'll keep you all posted on what ideas come to mind and I should be in a position to give a better accurate perspective once I've got news from my colleague

 

[CaptainBobt]

Hey Folks

I've just opened the box containing the headset that came with the frame, not seen anything like this before...is the idea that this effectively gets away from the need for a star nut? If so is it any good (and will it'll bugger up the steerer? I'm thinking about getting one of these nifty EDC setups at some point).

Cheers

[EDIT: ewwww, horrible focus]

View attachment 94963

Thats called a compresson nurl, at least in the US we call it that. I used the star nut that came with my fork . If you have a fork that uses that then sure if not I would go by what your fork manufacturer recommends. The stock headset screw works fine with a star nut.

 

[CaptainBobt]

What did you figure out @Tomteam? Just looking now myself and pondering a solution, current thinking is this:

View attachment 94964

I don't use the shift sensor at all just takes a little learning on how to shift when not under load. To me it's just a added thing that can fail and if it's buried in your frame you hoofin home. Just my mho.

 

[BonBond]

I don't use the shift sensor at all just takes a little learning on how to shift when not under load. To me it's just a added thing that can fail and if it's buried in your frame you hoofin home. Just my mho.

Hear you, but there really isn't much to go wrong.

I mutilated cassettes on my BBSHD before I fitted one of these (perhaps because my riding is totally unrefined). I got used to the cut in motor power during shifts really quickly, probably because I was coming from a conventional bike. My lazy logic is that not fitting one is like driving a manual without a clutch, doable, but not the brainless option.

I like brainless. Each to their own.

 

[Tomteam]

What did you figure out @Tomteam? Just looking now myself and pondering a solution, current thinking is this:

View attachment 94964

I put it under the battery connection piece l and covered it with electrical tape so that the cable sleeves would not move.
It can be accessed without removing the engine.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Alright guys. So I've inspected my cassette. And it's showing signs of wear on the 4th and 5th gear. I mostly use the 4th and 5th gear with the 9spd setup. It isn't slipping over the teeth yet, but looking at it, I think its going to happen soon. You can see the gaps opening up as the teeth wear away.

I am seriously considering internal gear hubs at this point. Replacing cassettes every 50-100km is not sustainable.

Looking around, I have seen 3 different options that I like the sound of. Firstly, the 3x3-nine, then the Kindernay VII, then the Revolute Hub 1.

The 3x3 is a 9 speed ebike specific gear hub. It's got 9 speed, quite large gear steps. And can take high torque. I contacted 3x3-9 and they said it's only available as an OEM choice starting next year, with hopefully individual sales following. So that's 2023/24 at the earliest, too far away. But I like the sound of this hub the most.

The revolute is a 6 speed (plus neutral), can also take high torque. It won't roll back, unless in neutral, which is interesting. It sounds like quite a good choice aswell. But it's only available pre-order now. So probs won't see it until next year aswell.

Then there is the Kindernay VII, a 7 speed, with large steps between gears, also a very promising choice. They do list input torque at max 160nm though. Which depending on input sprocket sizing, could be on the limit with a rated motor torque of 160nm, plus leg power.

Are there any other options worth considering? I'd briefly look at rohlof, but they won't sell 148x12 spacing except to OEMs. Plus 14 gears with very closer ratio steps is not a good choice for ebikes IMHO.

 

[Mabman]

After chewing up a couple of SRAM cassettes, especially the smaller cogs due to lack of chain wrap and high torque and speed thrills. I came to the same conclusion as above but having dealt with IGH's in the past and knowing the cost of entry into that world, as well as complexity, I decided to just go ghetto and sourced the cheapest 1:1 system I could find which is made by Sensah. Steel cage derailleur, all steel cassette 10/50 in 11spd. 1:1 was important because I run grip shift but they make their own shifters which to me are clunky but I would imagine any SRAM shifter would work as well lined with compatible speeds. But the steel was what I was after damn the weight which I didn't notice at all. The SRAM derailleurs I had both were sloppy in the lower cage I thought and wondered if that had some effect on the skipping. The steel cage derailleur feels much more firm when tugged on and although it lacks a clutch it seems to be holding up just fine and provides consistent shifts.

I've got about 400 miles on this now and it really seems to outperform the stock SRAM Eagle that came on the bike by enough so that I think I'll just stick with it. Still working well in the small cogs unless I really get after it trying to do 25mph up to the trail head and have to back off to 23.....

For the bargain basement entry cost of under $200 all in the cassettes are like a $40/50 replacement part or about as much as a good chain which is always worth spending some $$ on. I know that some put a big ? beside anything that is considered to be "cheap" but sometimes it works for someone at least.

 

[Daxxie]

What did you figure out @Tomteam? Just looking now myself and pondering a solution, current thinking is this:

Use Self-amalgamating tape!
It will keep moist out and bond it all together.
So you don't have to remove the motor if you need to change the cable.

 

[BonBond]

Use Self-amalgamating tape!
It will keep moist out and bond it all together.

Ha! not seen that before.

I've got an unhealthy obsession with this stuff, I used it to waterproof my quadcopters back in the day. Its amazing stuff, a gloopy paint on liquid, which cures to a rubbery insulation and can be peeled off cleanly. I love liquid tape.

I'll be slathering anything vulnerable with this goop before taking the bike outside...that said, it doesn't rain anymore in the UK...

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

If you really want to seal something up from the elements, use denso tape. We use it on underground machinery to seal up sensitive electrical connections etc. It's like this thick oil/wax soaked cloth. Wrap stuff up, and it builds a water barrier. It's nasty stuff to use and apply. But it works. And for inside electrical connectors, Di-electric grease like senson grease.

 

[Snotgobbler]

Hi guys.

I've decided to buy an E22, so that my girlfriend can keep up with me on the E10...

Question, though... I am told by Dengfu that there are 2 variants - one with a round charging port and a newer one with a square one.

Is the square one a V2 frame or something, or is it merely a small tweak confined to this area.

And, secondly, is there any reason why you think this change might have been made? Are there issues getting good connection with the round 1st gen one, for example?

I only ask because I'm told that there will be a longer wait for the square charger port version.

Let me know if anyone knows.

Cheers in advance!

 

[BonBond]

Hi guys.

I've decided to buy an E22, so that my girlfriend can keep up with me on the E10...

Question, though... I am told by Dengfu that there are 2 variants - one with a round charging port and a newer one with a square one.

Is the square one a V2 frame or something, or is it merely a small tweak confined to this area.

And, secondly, is there any reason why you think this change might have been made? Are there issues getting good connection with the round 1st gen one, for example?

I only ask because I'm told that there will be a longer wait for the square charger port version.

Let me know if anyone knows.

Cheers in advance!

Keep up?! She’ll thrash you.
No idea about the charging port - though think that was discussed earlier in the thread.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Figured I'd spread the word,

Thru Axle Rear 12mm

Buy your Nukeproof Thru Axle Rear 12mm - Quick Release Skewers from Wiggle. SAVE 27% - RRP £17.99 now only £12.99. Free worldwide delivery available.

www.wiggle.co.uk

I can confirm that this axle works perfectly on both the E22 and E10.
The version to select is, 12x175x1.5) and uses a 6mm allen key.

Don't let the fact that the axle is 2mm longer than the stock axle fool you. It does work.

I'll keep you all posted once I've found the titanium bolts for the hardware and linkage

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Hi guys.

I've decided to buy an E22, so that my girlfriend can keep up with me on the E10...

Question, though... I am told by Dengfu that there are 2 variants - one with a round charging port and a newer one with a square one.

Is the square one a V2 frame or something, or is it merely a small tweak confined to this area.

And, secondly, is there any reason why you think this change might have been made? Are there issues getting good connection with the round 1st gen one, for example?

I only ask because I'm told that there will be a longer wait for the square charger port version.

Let me know if anyone knows.

Cheers in advance!

I didn't know about the charging port differences.

But one possible explanation is it is a requirement or alteration specifically for a bike brand like Luna or WattWagons or similar. They might have a larger order, and only want the square port. But dengfu might have multiple moulds to manufacture the frames. And the mounds using the square port are all booked up full filling a possible large order, and the other mounds with round charge port are not in use.

 

[CaptainBobt]

Alright guys. So I've inspected my cassette. And it's showing signs of wear on the 4th and 5th gear. I mostly use the 4th and 5th gear with the 9spd setup. It isn't slipping over the teeth yet, but looking at it, I think its going to happen soon. You can see the gaps opening up as the teeth wear away.

I am seriously considering internal gear hubs at this point. Replacing cassettes every 50-100km is not sustainable.

Looking around, I have seen 3 different options that I like the sound of. Firstly, the 3x3-nine, then the Kindernay VII, then the Revolute Hub 1.

The 3x3 is a 9 speed ebike specific gear hub. It's got 9 speed, quite large gear steps. And can take high torque. I contacted 3x3-9 and they said it's only available as an OEM choice starting next year, with hopefully individual sales following. So that's 2023/24 at the earliest, too far away. But I like the sound of this hub the most.

The revolute is a 6 speed (plus neutral), can also take high torque. It won't roll back, unless in neutral, which is interesting. It sounds like quite a good choice aswell. But it's only available pre-order now. So probs won't see it until next year aswell.

Then there is the Kindernay VII, a 7 speed, with large steps between gears, also a very promising choice. They do list input torque at max 160nm though. Which depending on input sprocket sizing, could be on the limit with a rated motor torque of 160nm, plus leg power.

Are there any other options worth considering? I'd briefly look at rohlof, but they won't sell 148x12 spacing except to OEMs. Plus 14 gears with very closer ratio steps is not a good choice for ebikes IMHO.

That amazes me that your burning up cassettes so fast, I already have 100 miles on my sram 12 speed gx and zero signs of wear. I'm wondering if your use of the throttle as you've described is putting abrupt tension on your system resulting in such quik wear. I know your watching your heart rate because of your illness. But I'm wondering if a little peddelling just to ramp up the motor before applying throttle would help. I'm just throwing it out there. I don't know much about internal hubs but I k ow Luna puts one on one of there bikes and has a good track record . I k ow there not cheap.

 

[CaptainBobt]

Hi guys.

I've decided to buy an E22, so that my girlfriend can keep up with me on the E10...

Question, though... I am told by Dengfu that there are 2 variants - one with a round charging port and a newer one with a square one.

Is the square one a V2 frame or something, or is it merely a small tweak confined to this area.

And, secondly, is there any reason why you think this change might have been made? Are there issues getting good connection with the round 1st gen one, for example?

I only ask because I'm told that there will be a longer wait for the square charger port version.

Let me know if anyone knows.

Cheers in advance!

I would get whatever frame you can the quickest. Not sure what difference round or aquare charging port would be. As long as the harness fits and charges the battery it's good to go in my book.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

That amazes me that your burning up cassettes so fast, I already have 100 miles on my sram 12 speed gx and zero signs of wear. I'm wondering if your use of the throttle as you've described is putting abrupt tension on your system resulting in such quik wear. I know your watching your heart rate because of your illness. But I'm wondering if a little peddelling just to ramp up the motor before applying throttle would help. I'm just throwing it out there. I don't know much about internal hubs but I k ow Luna puts one on one of there bikes and has a good track record . I k ow there not cheap.

It's not like I don't pedal. I do. I just use the throttle, alot. I pedal a bit to get about. And use pedals to change weight balance, and give a little power when needed. On the ups, I use throttle a fair bit to get back up the hill. And on the downs, I use it as a little turbo boost here and there in between features, after corners, before jumps etc.

I use it alot. But I dont think there is such a thing as over using it. It's a bog stock motor, it's not modified. I'm using the standard firmware, the original components. I'm not using more throttle than is available to use.

These motors are supposedly 1kw. Another very common electric motor that is around the 1kw is automotive starter motors. They are often 1-1.5kw range. They run for 5 to 15 seconds at a time, but will do it hundreds if thousands of times, and they are usually extremely reliable.

The obvious difference between the bike gears and a stater motor drive pinion is the size and material. Automotive starter pinions have about 10 to 20mm wide gear teeth interface. And they are made of hardened steel. Unsurprisingly, they also practically never fail or wear. The motors will fail electrically. But the pinions never wear.

Bike cassettes teeth are maybe 1 to 2mm thick. And they are definitely not made of a hard steel. The box prime I currently have is manufactured as stamped steel. You can guarantee this will be a very soft material to facilitate a stamping process. Apart from a mostly cosmetic surface coating, I bet there would be no hardening treatment. Unsurprisingly, these are the parts wearing out.

As for cost, yes IGH are pricey. But if it has larger and harder gears inside, then it should last orders of magnitude longer. plus internally sealed and lubricated VS open and bathed in a muddy abrasive slurry like conventional systems... If you look at how much I've spent on chain / cassette already. I'm already half way towards an IGH.

 

[Snotgobbler]

I didn't know about the charging port differences.

But one possible explanation is it is a requirement or alteration specifically for a bike brand like Luna or WattWagons or similar. They might have a larger order, and only want the square port. But dengfu might have multiple moulds to manufacture the frames. And the mounds using the square port are all booked up full filling a possible large order, and the other mounds with round charge port are not in use.

Interesting.

I suppose my thinking is, they must have experienced some problems with water ingress and issues enough to make the revision.

Has anyone experienced such issues yet?

 

[Cigales]

So, I've been messing around with the Eggrider v2 display on my E22
<images>
At first, I thought some of the functions the display/app offered, would be overkill for EMTB. But I am truly impressed with the ability to examine rider data after each ride. Not to mention, it is the smallest display for Bafang ebikes. And the ability to export this data and upload it to third party services like Strava, is not lost on me .
Huge shout out to Eggrider for the hook up. At present, they are out of stock but I'll do my utmost to keep you all posted on stock availability.
A full video and written review coming soon

Thanks in advance for any info, i'm very interrested. Same for @Daxxie, do you have feedback? I intend to get one once in stock (and once I receive the frame) as I didn't buy any display. Also, I guess you have the UART motor as this display does not exist for CAN version motors.
The Eggrider seems real good and can't wait to play with it. I was hopping to use it to log all rides and automatically dump them to a home server for later usage. This was something I had in the past with the Cycle Analyst v2 as it had serial output.

Have you seen that you can (or build with 3D printer) some display protectors and sun shades for the Eggrider? Seems like a good idea as it's not a cheap display.

 

[Cigales]

@Neeko DeVinchi or anyone else, have you thought about opening a wiki page for the Dengfu bikes in order to compile every information that has been gathered? Something like what @BonBond has done with the battery build thread.
Do you think the owner of EMTBForums would be willing to add a wiki service on this website?
Another solution would be to use your original first post of this topic as a summary of some sort although that would not allow anyone to easily contribute.

 

[CaptainBobt]

It's not like I don't pedal. I do. I just use the throttle, alot. I pedal a bit to get about. And use pedals to change weight balance, and give a little power when needed. On the ups, I use throttle a fair bit to get back up the hill. And on the downs, I use it as a little turbo boost here and there in between features, after corners, before jumps etc.

I use it alot. But I dont think there is such a thing as over using it. It's a bog stock motor, it's not modified. I'm using the standard firmware, the original components. I'm not using more throttle than is available to use.

These motors are supposedly 1kw. Another very common electric motor that is around the 1kw is automotive starter motors. They are often 1-1.5kw range. They run for 5 to 15 seconds at a time, but will do it hundreds if thousands of times, and they are usually extremely reliable.

The obvious difference between the bike gears and a stater motor drive pinion is the size and material. Automotive starter pinions have about 10 to 20mm wide gear teeth interface. And they are made of hardened steel. Unsurprisingly, they also practically never fail or wear. The motors will fail electrically. But the pinions never wear.

Bike cassettes teeth are maybe 1 to 2mm thick. And they are definitely not made of a hard steel. The box prime I currently have is manufactured as stamped steel. You can guarantee this will be a very soft material to facilitate a stamping process. Apart from a mostly cosmetic surface coating, I bet there would be no hardening treatment. Unsurprisingly, these are the parts wearing out.

As for cost, yes IGH are pricey. But if it has larger and harder gears inside, then it should last orders of magnitude longer. plus internally sealed and lubricated VS open and bathed in a muddy abrasive slurry like conventional systems... If you look at how much I've spent on chain / cassette already. I'm already half way towards an IGH.
[/QUOT
Yes youve got to do something,, ridic getting new cassete every 200 miles . I'll be interested to see if my scram holds up it is definitely not cheap and of very high quality . As I said zero signs of wear so far after 100 miles .

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

@Neeko DeVinchi or anyone else, have you thought about opening a wiki page for the Dengfu bikes in order to compile every information that has been gathered? Something like what @BonBond has done with the battery build thread.
Do you think the owner of EMTBForums would be willing to add a wiki service on this website?
Another solution would be to use your original first post of this topic as a summary of some sort although that would not allow anyone to easily contribute.

Whilst I appreciate that I'm the OP/author, technically this thread has two authors.

The second author remains unclear. However, my goal was to create a single area online dedicated to the Dengfu E22 frames for others to peruse through and consider

I'd have no objections, should the second author wish to branch out and start a Wiki page (or something along those lines) from the materials I've provided. But I'll still choose to update this thread, should I hear/learn/discover anything Dengfu E22 related

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Well, Mabman just said he chewed up numerous Sram cassettes on his bike when he started out. (On previous page)

Maybe not wearing out as fast as I am, but still fast enough for him to change it up to Sensai or something like that.

I bet money that before long, your Sram cassette will also wear out. My e13 12spd wore out the mid gears, and the high gears also suffered. The mid gears because they get used the most, and the high gears because they have alot less chain wrap.

Now on my Box Prime group, the mid gears are wearing, enough that i can easily see the wear by eye. The high gears look fine still. In both cases the low gears were perfect. The low gears have the most chain interface, and therefore probably least likely to wear.