Dengfu E22 Frame Thread

[bram.biesiekierski]

See here

 

[twistgripper]

Also. With the posted e22 sizes. There is an obvious error in atleast one of the measurements. I believe the FC measurement is wrong. It's the same for all 3 frame sizes. Even though wheel base, reach etc all change. So obvious typo.

I guess there could be other errors too

Yes i saw the FC length and corrected that in my own chart I made (of course assuming the WB is correct), i also think its correct on geometrygeeks website..

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Bought some spokes to go with the kindernay vii swap shell. I have decided to go with a 3 cross lacing pattern. Calculated size ended up being 278mm, accounting for the staggered hub spacing.

I went with some sapim strongs. They are single butted 13g (2.3mm) down to 14g (2mm). Should be nice and strong, as the name implies, with a tiny bit of extra weight. I wanted black spokes, but they are hard to get in a reasonable time, so I went with silver as that's what's available locally.

I also got a some DT swiss squorx brass nipples. I have rim tape and tubeless sealant. And I'm pretty sure I have some valve stems kicking about aswell.

So should be all good to build the wheel up once it arrives.

 

[Mabman]

So after a couple thousand miles now with my Z1 E22 M620 bike it has been a bit of a love/wtf relationship truth be told. My last kit was a TSDZ2 on an older alu fs frame and it had decent power to get up and over anything in my neighborhood with a smile on your face. I wanted to try an integral system and the Z1 was what fate handed me.

So after dumping some additional $ in for "improvements", actually just the usual refining bits one does, I think I about have the bike dialed for my wants/needs. I can't help wondering though if the M620 isn't a bit too much especially in regards to it's weight and what it adds to the overall of the bike at first but now it really doesn't affect the handling of the bike the way and where I ride it. Lifting it over stuff being the exception but haven't not made it yet.

As far as handling and geometry goes I have to admit that I came to the E22 from old school XC geo and although it doesn't go as far as the most modern geo and I don't have experience on that platform anyway it seems to do just fine from riding road to monster trucking over things that you wonder if you are going to, go for it, and do. I do want to try a coil though and thanks to the above I have one on the way. Mainly because the RS I have on there at the proper psi for sag in the rough stuff maxes out the ring? Test time necessary!

The biggest improvement I feel I have made though is in ditching the stock 840wh 48v battery and going to the 780wh 52v battery. I have other posts on here about that. Riding alone I tend to hot foot the bike it seems because I have a hard time getting less than the high 20's of wh/mi consumption. But riding with say a Brose type bike with a younger rider at a still sporting tempo it is more like 20 wh/mi now after numerous cycles as the battery seems to be maturing as time goes on?

So would I recommend an E22 bike to someone. Probably not actually. They really are kind of over the top compared to the EU and Class 1 bikes that are the most favored trail access wise although they can be ridden at the exact same pace efficiently. The idea of using controllers that make the M620 even more powerful to me is a joke. Anyone that needs more than a 1500w squirt now and then is most likely better off with a moto frankly. Higher watt use eats battery life and resulting ride time anyway. But to each their own I guess.

Would I replace it with an M5/6 series bike. Also probably not. However the upcoming M810 in a 150mm travel platform with a +400wh battery in the 18kg range seems like it would make a good foil to the Z1's bulk and am going to go that route next when it becomes available next year. It will be much better suited to riding with my young push bike buddies and less conspicuous for use on trails that may be grey areas.

 

[twistgripper]

For readers - what would you do?

So I was about to pull the trigger, and then a local seller of Frey I noticed has a Frey AM1000 (VER 5) for $4900 CAD - reasonably well specced (yari fork, sram nx drivetrain).
The Dengu E22 build i was budgeting would cost right around that amount IF SHOPPING CAREFULLY FOR GOOD USED PARTS!!!!
if new parts, then the E22 comes in costing about $1700 more (CAD)

With that in mind, the AM1000 Geo is very similar, the alu frame adds a bit of weight but you get better durability in exchange so i'm ok with that.
+ I would have a bike ready built, in stock and i could get it NOW.
+ would free up my time this winter to work on another project
+ some hope of warranty support with local dealer if anything goes wrong.
+ The AM1000 comes with a 48v 21AH battery - considerably more capacity than the e22 standard 17.5ah.
+ comparing apples to apples with new parts - the Frey is essentially $1700 less.

This seems like a no-brainer if one does not feel they need to be on the bleeding edge of performance.

So...what would you do?

 

[MadZoom]

For readers - what would you do?

So I was about to pull the trigger, and then a local seller of Frey I noticed has a Frey AM1000 (VER 5) for $4900 CAD - reasonably well specced (yari fork, sram nx drivetrain).
The Dengu E22 build i was budgeting would cost right around that amount IF SHOPPING CAREFULLY FOR GOOD USED PARTS!!!!
if new parts, then the E22 comes in costing about $1700 more (CAD)

With that in mind, the AM1000 Geo is very similar, the alu frame adds a bit of weight but you get better durability in exchange so i'm ok with that.
+ I would have a bike ready built, in stock and i could get it NOW.
+ would free up my time this winter to work on another project
+ some hope of warranty support with local dealer if anything goes wrong.
+ The AM1000 comes with a 48v 21AH battery - considerably more capacity than the e22 standard 17.5ah.
+ comparing apples to apples with new parts - the Frey is essentially $1700 less.

This seems like a no-brainer if one does not feel they need to be on the bleeding edge of performance.

So...what would you do?

I was in a similar position too when i wanted a m620 full suspension ebike earlier this year. The shipping/delivery time was an issue for me from checking the various resellers. Luckily, there was a local Frey dealer and he had a bike in stock. The bike cost a bit more due to the added features, but I also factored that I would be able to enjoy it a lot sooner than just waiting around.

I used warranty support once due to the key lock tumbler coming off. They provided detail steps for me to fix it. After putting 800+ miles, the build overall quality has been good. The only complaint I had would be use of the Maxxis Recon tires that came with the bike.

Based on my experience I would go with Frey since it is ready go.

 

[twistgripper]

.... After putting 800+ miles, the build overall quality has been good. The only complaint I had would be use of the Maxxis Recon tires that came with the bike.....Based on my experience I would go with Frey since it is ready go.

Yeah I keep hearing good things about frey, only one exception, I found one forum where a guy broke his frame but i think he was a much more hardcore rider than me. Tires on this one are CST BFT 3.0 so like a plus plus version of minion DHR...i have a new set of minion 2.8 if they suck. thanks for the input. Just waiting to hear back from seller if he has large in stock..

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

There is something fun about building up and spec'ing your own bike. Choosing the parts, and putting it together.

I dont think it's a super cheap option to do though. And I don't know the pricing of Frey bikes. But mine came in under the cost of a base model alloy frame Trek/giant/specialised full suspension emtb. Although, with the multiple drivetrains and now an IGH on the way, that's not really the case anymore.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Outstanding

 

[Dado]

Hello ebikers.

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For more info check the following link:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31...

How to unlock speed:
https://youtu.be/6z3TzEqNWsQ

If you interested, send an email to [email protected], will answer any questions and will send user manual.
K1 CAN Monitor is determined for testing purpose only and is not waterproof.

 

[twistgripper]

There is something fun about building up and spec'ing your own bike. Choosing the parts, and putting it together.

I dont think it's a super cheap option to do though. And I don't know the pricing of Frey bikes. But mine came in under the cost of a base model alloy frame Trek/giant/specialised full suspension emtb. Although, with the multiple drivetrains and now an IGH on the way, that's not really the case anymore.

Well, seller is out of stock in the Large Frey AM1000, so a winter build project with the e22 it is!!

 

[agro_86]

Hi wondering what this is for? I'm assuming it has something to do with the speed sensor as it's the same shape. If it goes inside how do you get the speed sensor inside?

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Hi wondering what this is for? I'm assuming it has something to do with the speed sensor as it's the same shape. If it goes inside how do you get the speed sensor inside?

View attachment 96650

The speed sensor is externally mounted.

It attaches using the Philips head screw via the thread on the left chainstay.

You should also see a cable guide located at the bottom of the left chainstay, which you can attach the speed sensor cable with a zip tie.

 

[agro_86]

The speed sensor is externally mounted.
View attachment 96651
It attaches using the Philips head screw via the thread on the left chainstay.
View attachment 96652
You should also see a cable guide located at the bottom of the left chainstay, which you can attach the speed sensor cable with a zip tie.
View attachment 96653

So it bolts on top of that lump thing and cable running along the bottom?

 

[twistgripper]

So I ordered my E22 today!!!

I have a 2018 Devinci AC I can either 1. Sell or 2. Strip for parts I need and sell the rest. Or 3. buy a bunch of cheaper "meh/ok" parts and slap the old devinci back together on low budget and sell as complete bike...

What I don't know: is there much demand for good used shimano e8000 motor, battery etc?
A cool enduro frame someone can do a full shimano build on?

I looked on ebay and pinkbike but there is NOBODY selling a bare frame w/motor out there....but that does not mean it isn't desirable. there might be someone looking to save a buck and build it up the way they want.

I believe i could get $4000-4500 cad ($3000-$3400 usd) for the whole bike. in good condition with 2 batteries.

Stripping the bike for parts I know are good would save me a crapload of time for the E22 build, and the parts are pretty decent:
- Fox Float 36 Perf. Elite Evol 36 180mm fork 27.5 boost
- boost wheelset 36mm w/2.8 plus Minion tires (i like em)
- Sram Guide RE brakes, 180 & 200mm rotors
- Sram GX 11s drivetrain with new cassette 11-42t
- stem, bar, grips, seat, dropper post....
so that's a lot of "deal hunting" i wouldn't need to do.

Or maybe I should hang onto it for a while just in case I don't like the E22 for some reason.

Opinions? Is there another side i'm not thinking of? goal is to save time while maximizing return (to pay for the new build of course)

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

So I ordered my E22 today!!!

I have a 2018 Devinci AC I can either 1. Sell or 2. Strip for parts I need and sell the rest. Or 3. buy a bunch of cheaper "meh/ok" parts and slap the old devinci back together on low budget and sell as complete bike...

What I don't know: is there much demand for good used shimano e8000 motor, battery etc?
A cool enduro frame someone can do a full shimano build on?

I looked on ebay and pinkbike but there is NOBODY selling a bare frame w/motor out there....but that does not mean it isn't desirable. there might be someone looking to save a buck and build it up the way they want.

I believe i could get $4000-4500 cad ($3000-$3400 usd) for the whole bike. in good condition with 2 batteries.

Stripping the bike for parts I know are good would save me a crapload of time for the E22 build, and the parts are pretty decent:
- Fox Float 36 Perf. Elite Evol 36 180mm fork 27.5 boost
- boost wheelset 36mm w/2.8 plus Minion tires (i like em)
- Sram Guide RE brakes, 180 & 200mm rotors
- Sram GX 11s drivetrain with new cassette 11-42t
- stem, bar, grips, seat, dropper post....
so that's a lot of "deal hunting" i wouldn't need to do.

Or maybe I should hang onto it for a while just in case I don't like the E22 for some reason.

Opinions? Is there another side i'm not thinking of? goal is to save time while maximizing return (to pay for the new build of course)

When I built my e22, my original plan was to strip my remedy and use most of the parts to make the e22 complete. I had a good selection of spares, and only needed a few components from the remedy to make the e22.

As I got into it, I decided to keep the remedy intact, and buy new what I didn't have spares of, to complete the e22.

Im glad I did, I can still ride the remedy when the e22 is out of action needing repairs. (Which is pretty often for me haha)

The remedy is also good to keep for shuttle days. No way could I handle lifting the e22 on/off the back of the shuttle bus all day.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

All the parts needed to build the IGH wheel arrived today. So I wasted no time and got straight into lacing the rim.

I got 34 out of 36 spokes laced. And then I ran out of DT swiss nipple washers. I thought I must of lost some washers somehow. But then I realised that DT swiss, with all thier big brain wisdom, decided it was clever to supply 34 washers, with a 36 hole rim. I'm not joking, they include 34 out of 36 washers with the rim. When I saw the bag label, stating 34 pieces, I nearly threw the thing across the room. How annoying. Now I need to chase up 2 poxy washers to complete the rim build up.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

More pics

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Got my washers from a local wheel shop. Have begun tightening up the spokes, and truing everything in. I am starting to wonder if the 36 sapim strongs is a bit overkill.

 

[Waynemarlow]

You can get away now a days with a 32 hole rim but triple cross the spoke, it’s almost no extra time to lace.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Ps do individually stress each spoke with your fingers when you think you have it all trued, you will be surprised just how much the wheel moves as the spokes “ relax “ into place. Best thing I find is lightly tapping the spokes with a screwdriver much like a tuning fork, its a really fast way to get good enough equal tension, but do be aware the tune will be slightly different on each side.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

You can get away now a days with a 32 hole rim but triple cross the spoke, it’s almost no extra time to lace.

I went with 36h tripple cross. Using 13g->14g single butted spokes.

I dont much care about weight, I want something strong.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Ps do individually stress each spoke with your fingers when you think you have it all trued, you will be surprised just how much the wheel moves as the spokes “ relax “ into place. Best thing I find is lightly tapping the spokes with a screwdriver much like a tuning fork, its a really fast way to get good enough equal tension, but do be aware the tune will be slightly different on each side.

Yes. I stand on the rim sideways when I want to make sure they are all stressed and seated nicely.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Got the rim tensioned up. Tension values are on the high side, but I expect the tension to settle down with a bit of use. I've plotted it using the Park Tool spoke tension app. Although, I was using a Super B spoke tension-meter. And it has a different numerical scale, so I had to approximate, and convert it so it works with the app.

The spoke tension, according to the Super B gauge is up around the 160-170 KGF. It's quite high, but I dont know how accurate the meter is. They feel about right by hand. Given that the spokes are 2.3mm down to 2mm. I wanted to be on the hi side, so that there is no issues with them coming loose.

Lateral (side to side) run-out is less than 0.25mm. (And I think a lot of that is the sticker on the side of the rim).

Radial (concentric) run-out is less than 0.3mm.

The run out is not perfect. But it's well above what would be considered true. There is no visible runout when you spin it, looking by eye. And that's good enough for me.

 

[Tomteam]

Hello.
Can someone tell me if this piece is like that or is the washer broken?

I finally have my E 22 mounted and after about 300km I noticed a rattle in the rear suspension... I was checking and saw that this screw had loosened a couple of turns. But the opening in the external washer caught my attention.

I probably didn't squeeze it hard enough; It is the only suspension screw that does not have information about the tightening torque.
What torque do you put on that bolt?

 

[Cigales]

Hello.
Can someone tell me if this piece is like that or is the washer broken?
<image>
I finally have my E 22 mounted and after about 300km I noticed a rattle in the rear suspension... I was checking and saw that this screw had loosened a couple of turns. But the opening in the external washer caught my attention.
<images>
I probably didn't squeeze it hard enough; It is the only suspension screw that does not have information about the tightening torque.
What torque do you put on that bolt?

I'm not sure that washer should be cut (in two?). My thinking is that with each rotation during riding, the washer will widen and close on it's self by not sliding properly. Maybe ask Mia (ex Melody) Dengfu for a replacement set, hopefully they sell them separately.

As for the torque settings, please check @Neeko DeVinchi post and mine. You should find a pdf file containing torque settings that was sent to me from Mia (Dengfu). I would advise using locktight or something similar on the screw threads to prevent it from unscrewing as easily.

• Dengfu E22 Frame Thread - EMTB Forums
• Dengfu E22 Frame Thread - EMTB Forums

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

99% sure the split is supposed to be there. And yes, the bolts do come loose.

You pretty much have to check every frame bolt after every ride if you use the recommended torque. I've had the main pivot come loose, as well as the derailer hanger.

Use some lock tight on the threads. And a tiny smear of carbon binder grease on any surface where a washer/nut etc contacts the carbon. The carbon binder grease has like fine crushed glass or sand or something like that in it. And it bites into the carbon and aluminium and stops any relative movement. The grease part displaces any air gap, reducing water ingress. Then give everything a good tightening.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Trying my hardest not to lose me shit with this kindernay kit. So many little problems to work through.

Firstly, the torque arm that needs to be held stationary with the frame is a interesting setup. They give you a brake post mount adapter which has an interface with the torque. Clever idea. But the post mount adapter junk. It needs to be ground in order to fit the Hope V4 callipers.

It is also a +20mm. I run +40mm adapters, in order to use hope 220mm rotors. So I had to rob a +20mm adapter from my partners bike. And use 2 x +20mm stacked together.

But then you need longer bolts. Because with the kindernay adapter, and most standard +20mm adapters use the same holes for brake, and adpater all together with cone washers to account for the weird angle everything ends up at.

Next issue is the crappy chain tensioner. Instead of having a B screw adjuster like a normal derailer, It has a steel pin. Which has no adjustment. When you match that to the e22 hanger, with the kindernay 22t rear cog (which is just a standard KMC part BTW.) Then the upper jockey wheel fouls the rear cog. So it's basically useless to me.

Then I have to try and get the shifter hoses up to the bars. No problem there except there is 2 hoses to run. And the frame is only made for a single cable like a normal bike.

Then lastly, when I undid the e22 rear thru axle. The handle end of it unscrewed, leaving the thru axle stuck in place. Luckily, I was able to bash a 6mm 12spline 1/4" hex bit into the hole though the derailer hanger end, and un wind it from that side. I slapped red lock tight all over the handle bolt piece, and re-installed it into the axle again.

I then dilled and tapped the thred end of the axle to m6. That way if it happens again, I can thread a long m6 into the hole, and use that to unscrew the axle.

Today is not my day.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Managed to sort this issue. The metal pin that is used in place of the B screw has m4 threads. So I was able to unscrew it, and the drill and tap a second hole. That gave just enough clearance for the chain to pas between the rear hub cog, and the upper tensioner wheel.

 

[BonBond]

Has anyone confirmed (actually measured) all the posted geometry info on size large or med frame for the E22? I'm trying to choose between med and large and I'd hate to make a mistake based on bad info. I'm 5'10 (178 cm), 32 inch inseam. Most bikes size large is ideal for me, but if reach is long i get numb hands something fierce. I just had to change my 2018 Devinci AC bars to 60mm rise and that helped a fair bit. I really prefer large over medium usually for the extra stability descending, but geo keeps evolving to longer, slacker frames so not sure if that really matters so much anymore. but the e22 posted reach for large is 470, but neeko measured 496mm?? my current bike's reach is 465-470 (2 position adj geo) and that is really the max i want to go. any other riders 5'10 want to chime in?
also that crazy long chainstay length of 484 is really a bit odd too. Also Luna has slightly different geo numbers posted for the Z1.
I wonder if the also slacker than norm seat tube angle of 72.5 will also effectively increase reach when seated - placing more weight on the hands.

I'm 5'11 and a bit, I bought medium on a few ppls recommendation here. They come up pretty big and a medium is perfect for me.