SZZS specific CEF50-main thread (initial builds and troubleshooting related only)

[TCFlowClyde]

Since it’s winter time now, and I’ve been riding in more wet weather situations I’ve noticed a new squeak that seems to be coming from the motor. It seems to be only when the motors actually engaged regardless of whether I’m peddling or not, like with overrun. Are any of you experiencing any squeaky sounds coming from the motor and no where lube should be applied?

KaroKonig cracked his M820 open and decided to add some extra lube generously applied in attempt to reduce the motor whir sound. He noted that it was probably under greased by the Bafang factory. I found this to be the case in my M600 when I re-lubed it with John Deere corn head grease last year. Seemed to work great!

So, maybe lube it?

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Hi everyone, I'm new here. I have a light e-mtb project in the pipeline, I'm undecided between this cef 50 and the lightcarbon lce 930. I would be a person who is quite interested in weight, so I would look for the lightest frame. On an aesthetic level, I like the LCE 930 better but it has some details that I don't like. like the battery but I saw on the forum that a member made a 720wh battery like I would like.
many thanks in advance

I was able to over-stroke the CEF50 at bit. I went with a 180 fork and 210x55 rear air shock (165+/-). So far so good @ month 6. Lemon10, I believe also has been able to use a 55 mm stroke as well. So, more proven travel if that's what you want. (Although, I suspect there's a few LCE930 owners that have been able to increase travel too.).

Another advantage of the CEF50 is that the drive unit and battery (including wiring) are already correct and set up. Building a DIY battery does take a knowledgeable skill-set especially!

Also, overall the CEF50 is selling the M820 motor and battery at wholesale (at least for now)....saves some money there. Consequently, motor/battery issues are covered through SZZS support too. So, there's a major convenience for good support for all, not just the frame (which LC-Jim does support well. I have the full-powered LCES04 frame.).

Oh yeah! Small upgrade. The speed sensor has been upgraded to be hidden more discreetly for a rotor magnet vs. old-school spoke magnet. KaroKonig was able to do a work-around for his LCE930 to achieve a rotor magnet set up but he's a very skilled DIY builder doing outstanding upgrades.

 

[patdam]

I have mesured the possibility to change rear shok dimension. Personally i don't recomand to use 55 travel. On my XL frame the haubans/link articulations are in contact with 55. May be 52.5 fit ? but i prefer keeps security marging and i I will reduce travel of my shock to 51. The same for length, upper than 210 and the bases are in contact with the frame

 

[temon10]

Cool. Test it out for below 20%.

10-12% power down would be nice.

Bafang always super conservative toward saving the battery...My M600 is a 27% threshold.

still the same, power drop when battery reach 18-19%

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I have mesured the possibility to change rear shok dimension. Personally i don't recomand to use 55 travel. On my XL frame the haubans/link articulations are in contact with 55. May be 52.5 fit ? but i prefer keeps security marging and i I will reduce travel of my shock to 51. The same for length, upper than 210 and the bases are in contact with the frame

55 mm seems to work. I just pulled apart my rear linkage to paint them. No binding (i.e., chipping paint or scoring) was apparent. My rear shock has no travel reducers, even for the MegNeg upgrade.

See the edges (red arrows) where it would bind are factory sharp.

Yes, it would be easy to dismiss if just me, however at least one other has over stroked to 55 mm too successfully. I would have no problem reducing travel if there was an issue or future concern.

What have I to gain to be misleading others? So, it's observational data by at least 2 peeps, not 0, that is opinion.

I was willing to risk experimentation with success apparently. Now with another brave enough to follow the lead, it works for two of us.

Frame size may not (and probably doesn't) matter. The chainstay and rear linkage is the same for all front triangle sizing of the CEF50 frame.

Also, a few peeps reportedly are using 52.5 stroke successfully.

So, please let's put this to rest. If a third wants to go 55 mm travel then chances are pretty good that the risk will be minimal. Just report it here if you'd like to.

Sometimes the risk is worth the rewards = increased rear travel.

But of course, you build how you choose best.

 

[temon10]

I have mesured the possibility to change rear shok dimension. Personally i don't recomand to use 55 travel. On my XL frame the haubans/link articulations are in contact with 55. May be 52.5 fit ? but i prefer keeps security marging and i I will reduce travel of my shock to 51. The same for length, upper than 210 and the bases are in contact with the frame

52,5 will be safe and fit.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

52,5 will be safe and fit.

52,5 will be safe and fit.

But 55 works too. No issues for 7 months.

 

[Myalteregohamish]

But 55 works too. No issues for 7 months.

I couldn’t remember was that 27.5 or 29 you were on?

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I couldn’t remember was that 27.5 or 29 you were on?

27.5 x 3.0 front/27.5 x 2.8 rear. So, sits close to a 29er (plus size 28.7" tall).

 

[ymmr32]

Linda contacted me. Carbon case battery weight. It seems that orders for the new frame and carbon crank will be shipped at the end of November.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

But 55 works too. No issues for 7 months.

Agreed. I run a 55mn stroke. No issues with a 29x2.3 Maxxis DHR2.
Although, my suspension chap measured the axle path and he's getting 148mm of rear wheel travel.

 

[Myalteregohamish]

Agreed. I run a 55mn stroke. No issues with a 29x2.3 Maxxis DHR2.
Although, my suspension chap measured the axle path and he's getting 148mm of rear wheel travel.

Do you recall how he measured it? I wonder if others who know how to measure travel path can reach a consensus.

 

[brbr]

Linda contacted me. Carbon case battery weight. It seems that orders for the new frame and carbon crank will be shipped at the end of November.

View attachment 129074

that's great! I don't think that would fit in the LCE930, but that's quite light for a factory battery

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Do you recall how he measured it? I wonder if others who know how to measure travel path can reach a consensus.

My suspension chap has built a harness-like contraption which when the rear wheel is removed from the drop-outs, a marker like device is installed onto the axle once inserted back into the drop-outs.

He'll perform two tests, the first is to remove the rear shock completely to know and understand the axle paths direction to see how much available movement is available before being hindered by a obstruction of eithrt the frame or rear wheel.
The second test is with the shock refitted but with no air or compression. He'll then move the axle path slowly as the marker shows the trajectory of axle path until it reached the limit of the stroke.

From there, he can calculate the current rear wheel travel available with a particular stroke shock and deduce how much potential travel is available until an obstruction becomes a hindrance.

The next time I ask my suspension chap to measure the rear wheel axle path for future diy frameset ebike I'll be building, I'll take some pictures

 

[like-bike]

I was able to over-stroke the CEF50 at bit. I went with a 180 fork and 210x55 rear air shock (165+/-). So far so good @ month 6. Lemon10, I believe also has been able to use a 55 mm stroke as well. So, more proven travel if that's what you want. (Although, I suspect there's a few LCE930 owners that have been able to increase travel too.).

Another advantage of the CEF50 is that the drive unit and battery (including wiring) are already correct and set up. Building a DIY battery does take a knowledgeable skill-set especially!

Also, overall the CEF50 is selling the M820 motor and battery at wholesale (at least for now)....saves some money there. Consequently, motor/battery issues are covered through SZZS support too. So, there's a major convenience for good support for all, not just the frame (which LC-Jim does support well. I have the full-powered LCES04 frame.).

Oh yeah! Small upgrade. The speed sensor has been upgraded to be hidden more discreetly for a rotor magnet vs. old-school spoke magnet. KaroKonig was able to do a work-around for his LCE930 to achieve a rotor magnet set up but he's a very skilled DIY builder doing outstanding upgrades.

I was able to over-stroke the CEF50 at bit. I went with a 180 fork and 210x55 rear air shock (165+/-). So far so good @ month 6. Lemon10, I believe also has been able to use a 55 mm stroke as well. So, more proven travel if that's what you want. (Although, I suspect there's a few LCE930 owners that have been able to increase travel too.).

Another advantage of the CEF50 is that the drive unit and battery (including wiring) are already correct and set up. Building a DIY battery does take a knowledgeable skill-set especially!

Also, overall the CEF50 is selling the M820 motor and battery at wholesale (at least for now)....saves some money there. Consequently, motor/battery issues are covered through SZZS support too. So, there's a major convenience for good support for all, not just the frame (which LC-Jim does support well. I have the full-powered LCES04 frame.).

Oh yeah! Small upgrade. The speed sensor has been upgraded to be hidden more discreetly for a rotor magnet vs. old-school spoke magnet. KaroKonig was able to do a work-around for his LCE930 to achieve a rotor magnet set up but he's a very skilled DIY builder doing outstanding upgrades.

Yes, I noticed these details too, like the magnet that I like the rotor one better. but what about the weight? I would like to make the lightest e-mtb light possible with a budget that is not very high. I made a table in Excel and indicatively (for the cef50, if the weight of the frame is right, 2500g in size M) I would get a bike that weighs 17.5 kg.
but I saw on the forum that someone has an Lce930 frame in size L which weighs 2526g....
well I'm a bit undecided. because in terms of aesthetics I like lce930 but in terms of weight cef50....
thanks so much for reply

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Yes, I noticed these details too, like the magnet that I like the rotor one better. but what about the weight? I would like to make the lightest e-mtb light possible with a budget that is not very high. I made a table in Excel and indicatively (for the cef50, if the weight of the frame is right, 2500g in size M) I would get a bike that weighs 17.5 kg.
but I saw on the forum that someone has an Lce930 frame in size L which weighs 2526g....
well I'm a bit undecided. because in terms of aesthetics I like lce930 but in terms of weight cef50....
thanks so much for reply

Both are great bikes...can't go wrong with either. 50/50.

I wanted the big battery, big travel, just big Enduro, as light as possible. I'm at 45.5-6 lbs+/- with beefy tires and a Zeb38 (so dry weight). Most don't want a heavy Enduro.

Others feel free to chime in with lighter 36 fork builds... Good hunting!🫡

 

[like-bike]

Both are great bikes...can't go wrong with either. 50/50.

I wanted the big battery, big travel, just big Enduro, as light as possible. I'm at 45.5-6 lbs+/- with beefy tires and a Zeb38 (so dry weight). Most don't want a heavy Enduro.

Others feel free to chime in with lighter 36 fork builds... Good hunting 🫡


Most

thanks again for the reply, I calculated a 36 Fox or Ohlins fork. given my weight I should have problems. I currently use a normal xc made in china mtb with a 32 fork with 100mm travel and I have no problems.
I found the rotor sensor for the LCE930 that you mentioned before very interesting, how would you ever know?

 

[TCFlowClyde]

thanks again for the reply, I calculated a 36 Fox or Ohlins fork. given my weight I should have problems. I currently use a normal xc made in china mtb with a 32 fork with 100mm travel and I have no problems.
I found the rotor sensor for the LCE930 that you mentioned before very interesting, how would you ever know?

I noticed the wheel magnet then saw Karo's thread.

SCHWARZWILD Bafang M820 with LCE 930 frame

I am so dying to see this. I really would like to see a lighter fat bike build, without the M620. Still haven't given up hope on that one. A lighter motor and smaller battery should easily shave off 5kg of the current fat bike builds. now have the fat EMTB carbon frame fit for M510/M560 and...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[Freda]

Yes, I noticed these details too, like the magnet that I like the rotor one better. but what about the weight? I would like to make the lightest e-mtb light possible with a budget that is not very high. I made a table in Excel and indicatively (for the cef50, if the weight of the frame is right, 2500g in size M) I would get a bike that weighs 17.5 kg.
but I saw on the forum that someone has an Lce930 frame in size L which weighs 2526g....
well I'm a bit undecided. because in terms of aesthetics I like lce930 but in terms of weight cef50....
thanks so much for reply

As mentioned here before, I think you will be happy with either. I chose the LCE930, but I think the CEF50 is just as good.

For me it came down to a few things. LCE930 looks better, but only have 410Wh battery, I built my own battery so got more juice anyway. And then I had a shock already in correct size for LCE930 so all and all, it was an easy choice. Both can be bought as complete package, but the CEF50 have more battery options.

I think this is the first bike were I actually care about the weight, since I put target weight to 20kg. The only reason being Thule car roof rack is max 20kg.
My size L LCE930 weigh 2633 gr painted. I don't think you will notice a +-500gr anyway, especially on an ebike.

 

[spokémon]

Linda contacted me. Carbon case battery weight. It seems that orders for the new frame and carbon crank will be shipped at the end of November.

View attachment 129074

This is great news!
By my calculations, the carbon case should be around ~300 grams
Very nice. Getting more impressed with SZZS

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Do you recall how he measured it? I wonder if others who know how to measure travel path can reach consensus.

Related answer. Leverage ratio for 210x50 spec is taken from the kinematics direct from published leverage curves by our SZZS engineer. Found in the SZZS website and early (p.3 or 4?) in this long a$$ thread.

Thaeber our resident mechanical engineer determined it was 3:1 leverage ratio. Or Spec travel 150 mm/ 50 mm stroke= 3. Correct any errors Thaeber.

50 mm stroke x 3 = 150 mm travel
52.5 mm stroke x 3 = 157.5 mm travel
55 mm stroke x 3 = 165 mm travel

I just take it at face value and feel confident in our SZZS engineer. I'm staying with the numbers...I trust the science.

 

[un..inc]

Yes, I noticed these details too, like the magnet that I like the rotor one better. but what about the weight? I would like to make the lightest e-mtb light possible with a budget that is not very high. I made a table in Excel and indicatively (for the cef50, if the weight of the frame is right, 2500g in size M) I would get a bike that weighs 17.5 kg.
but I saw on the forum that someone has an Lce930 frame in size L which weighs 2526g....
well I'm a bit undecided. because in terms of aesthetics I like lce930 but in terms of weight cef50....
thanks so much for reply

I was faced with the same decision and am about to order a CEF50.
The following factors convinced me:

Price (also price of the paintwork)
Weight
Magnet position
Complete package (frame, motor, battery)
contact
"Standard" cable routing possible on request

Yes, the LCE930 looks better, but the overall package makes me lean towards the CEF50.
All the components are already at home, only the frame, motor and battery are still missing

 

[Phatty]

The standard cable routing on request is the biggest deal. If you havent dealt with headset routing yet just trust the rest of us and order with routing through the frame and not the headset. That alone would steer me to the CEF50 vs the 930.

 

[like-bike]

As mentioned here before, I think you will be happy with either. I chose the LCE930, but I think the CEF50 is just as good.

For me it came down to a few things. LCE930 looks better, but only have 410Wh battery, I built my own battery so got more juice anyway. And then I had a shock already in correct size for LCE930 so all and all, it was an easy choice. Both can be bought as complete package, but the CEF50 have more battery options.

I think this is the first bike were I actually care about the weight, since I put target weight to 20kg. The only reason being Thule car roof rack is max 20kg.
My size L LCE930 weigh 2633 gr painted. I don't think you will notice a +-500gr anyway, especially on an ebike.

View attachment 129115

Thanks a lot for the answer. well for the battery you can get up to 720wh as shown by you, yes of course 500 g you don't feel it but it was out of personal ambition to have managed with the little budget to make a very light bike that is close to bikes like Fantic rampage, scott lumen etc. ..

 

[thaeber]

Related answer. Leverage ratio for 210x50 spec is taken from the kinematics direct from published leverage curves by our SZZS engineer. Found in the SZZS website and early (p.3 or 4?) in this long a$$ thread.

Thaeber our resident mechanical engineer determined it was 3:1 leverage ratio. Or Spec travel 150 mm/ 50 mm stroke= 3. Correct any errors Thaeber.

50 mm stroke x 3 = 150 mm travel
52.5 mm stroke x 3 = 157.5 mm travel
55 mm stroke x 3 = 165 mm travel

I just take it at face value and feel confident in our SZZS engineer. I'm staying with the numbers...I trust the science.

Correct mate, page 2 of this thread. Leverage ratio starts at 3.7 and ends at 2.5. Average is 3.1, so for a rough calculation its ok to calculate with leverage ratio 3.

 

[like-bike]

I was faced with the same decision and am about to order a CEF50.
The following factors convinced me:

Price (also price of the paintwork)
Weight
Magnet position
Complete package (frame, motor, battery)
contact
"Standard" cable routing possible on request

Yes, the LCE930 looks better, but the overall package makes me lean towards the CEF50.
All the components are already at home, only the frame, motor and battery are still missing

thanks, I don't know about the weight, because LC declares 2750g unpainted in size M and 2400/2500gò for cef50. I don't know about the price because it keeps changing for me and LC hasn't given me a definitive price yet. I like the position of the magnet, I also fit the one of the cef50, in fact I asked Jim from LC for explanations and he explained to me that it is a question of comfort for the magnet on the rotor with the high temperatures generated by braking it tends to demagnetize, I don't know if it is true, of course there is a grain of truth. a magnet loses strength in the heat. I found the contact with Jim and with the cef50 sellers equally good, I have nothing to say to the contrary.
For customization I believe they are both very customizable

 

[Phatty]

Just wanted to provide an update on riding, battery life, and more general observations.
I put the battery to the test on 3 rides without charging.
Ride 1: 27 miles 2800 feet - used 27% battery, ended with 83% left (Eco/Trail) riding with analog buddy
Ride 2: 9.5 miles 1540 feet - used 26% battery, ended with 57% left (Sport) solo
Ride 3: 9.5 miles 1540 feet. - used 41%, ended with 16% left (sport+/Boost) riding with full ebike levos and kept up
46 miles 5880 feet total with mixed use of levels.
The battery once below 20% was toast, you got no assistance and the bike felt like it was in eco mode and i sustained HR of 160 trying to keep up on the last mile climb back to truck. Very disappointed to see that as I was hopefully bafang and their 20% cutoff would have been fixed. Looks like you have 80% useable battery and better hope its flat or downhill after that.
I was excited that in sport+ and boost I could keep up with the levos with relative ease, even if it sucked the battery dry. I suspect you could do a 25 mile 4k vert ride in sport + pretty easy.
The bad: Every time I wash this bike the frame and rear triangle fill up with water. I never use a pressure washer and use low pressure flat spray with a sponge. And without fail every time I have to tip the bike all sorts of weird directions to get water to drain out. And its a lot of water that drains out. Multiple rust spots are occurring on some of the bolts. Wiping down is not good enough, I am going to have to take the leaf blower to it. Ill probably have to pull and look at the bearings, though I am afraid what I will find. I'm a wash my bike after every ride guy, and guess maybe on this bike I will have to tone that back to every 3rd ride.
I have been getting more pedal strikes lately as I finally got suspension fully dialed in. Going to be moving to 160 cranks. Anxiously waiting for UDH rear triangle and will be putting on transmission ASAP.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Just wanted to provide an update on riding, battery life, and more general observations.
I put the battery to the test on 3 rides without charging.
Ride 1: 27 miles 2800 feet - used 27% battery, ended with 83% left (Eco/Trail) riding with analog buddy
Ride 2: 9.5 miles 1540 feet - used 26% battery, ended with 57% left (Sport) solo
Ride 3: 9.5 miles 1540 feet. - used 41%, ended with 16% left (sport+/Boost) riding with full ebike levos and kept up
46 miles 5880 feet total with mixed use of levels.
The battery once below 20% was toast, you got no assistance and the bike felt like it was in eco mode and i sustained HR of 160 trying to keep up on the last mile climb back to truck. Very disappointed to see that as I was hopefully bafang and their 20% cutoff would have been fixed. Looks like you have 80% useable battery and better hope its flat or downhill after that.
I was excited that in sport+ and boost I could keep up with the levos with relative ease, even if it sucked the battery dry. I suspect you could do a 25 mile 4k vert ride in sport + pretty easy.
The bad: Every time I wash this bike the frame and rear triangle fill up with water. I never use a pressure washer and use low pressure flat spray with a sponge. And without fail every time I have to tip the bike all sorts of weird directions to get water to drain out. And its a lot of water that drains out. Multiple rust spots are occurring on some of the bolts. Wiping down is not good enough, I am going to have to take the leaf blower to it. Ill probably have to pull and look at the bearings, though I am afraid what I will find. I'm a wash my bike after every ride guy, and guess maybe on this bike I will have to tone that back to every 3rd ride.
I have been getting more pedal strikes lately as I finally got suspension fully dialed in. Going to be moving to 160 cranks. Anxiously waiting for UDH rear triangle and will be putting on transmission ASAP.

View attachment 129178 View attachment 129179

All matte blue (forks) looking good.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

I'm probably one of the lucky ones. But no issues to speak of.

View attachment 20231116_173451.jpg

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Just wanted to provide an update on riding, battery life, and more general observations.
I put the battery to the test on 3 rides without charging.
Ride 1: 27 miles 2800 feet - used 27% battery, ended with 83% left (Eco/Trail) riding with analog buddy
Ride 2: 9.5 miles 1540 feet - used 26% battery, ended with 57% left (Sport) solo
Ride 3: 9.5 miles 1540 feet. - used 41%, ended with 16% left (sport+/Boost) riding with full ebike levos and kept up
46 miles 5880 feet total with mixed use of levels.
The battery once below 20% was toast, you got no assistance and the bike felt like it was in eco mode and i sustained HR of 160 trying to keep up on the last mile climb back to truck. Very disappointed to see that as I was hopefully bafang and their 20% cutoff would have been fixed. Looks like you have 80% useable battery and better hope its flat or downhill after that.
I was excited that in sport+ and boost I could keep up with the levos with relative ease, even if it sucked the battery dry. I suspect you could do a 25 mile 4k vert ride in sport + pretty easy.
The bad: Every time I wash this bike the frame and rear triangle fill up with water. I never use a pressure washer and use low pressure flat spray with a sponge. And without fail every time I have to tip the bike all sorts of weird directions to get water to drain out. And its a lot of water that drains out. Multiple rust spots are occurring on some of the bolts. Wiping down is not good enough, I am going to have to take the leaf blower to it. Ill probably have to pull and look at the bearings, though I am afraid what I will find. I'm a wash my bike after every ride guy, and guess maybe on this bike I will have to tone that back to every 3rd ride.
I have been getting more pedal strikes lately as I finally got suspension fully dialed in. Going to be moving to 160 cranks. Anxiously waiting for UDH rear triangle and will be putting on transmission ASAP.

View attachment 129178 View attachment 129179

Good first report.

Bafang really does a disservice to not free up another 10% of reserve battery. A nice firmware update as an option would be warranted. It does somewhat help justify the bigger 720 battery for those that wanted the smaller 410 battery originally.

But still it needs to be the M820 frame manufacturers such as Light Carbon, Dengfu, and SZZS that request the firmware updates. Here is where I think Jim especially at Light Carbon could assert some influence with Bafang-e corporate HQ if it would help boost his sales. IMHO