SZZS specific CEF50-main thread (initial builds and troubleshooting related only)

[LAnton]

yeah, my orignal idea was to upgrade a orbea H30 then I considered a E10/22 and stumbled across this thread which definally peaked my interest. The CEF50 being such a light platform with the m820, and for the price it seems too good to be true. I just wonder how it holds up.

It's nice to ride a 19kg bike with a 720W battery

 

[thaeber]

I assume there´s an original housing for 43v? And that would give more wh.

The housing for 43V is the small Bafang Battery. And more Volt doesn’t mean more Wh. It’s simply the amount of cells and their specifications that results in Wh. Voltage of the pack x Ah of the parallel batteries = Wh. 10S4P 21700 3,6 V 5Ah each will 10x3,6V = 36V. 4x5Ah 20Ah. 36V x 20Ah = 720Wh.

 

[kyphosis]

The housing for 43V is the small Bafang Battery. And more Volt doesn’t mean more Wh. It’s simply the amount of cells and their specifications that results in Wh. Voltage of the pack x Ah of the parallel batteries = Wh. 10S4P 21700 3,6 V 5Ah each will 10x3,6V = 36V. 4x5Ah 20Ah. 36V x 20Ah = 720Wh.

Oh I thought they had the highest capacity on 43v my bad

 

[Polak_B]

The housing for 43V is the small Bafang Battery. And more Volt doesn’t mean more Wh. It’s simply the amount of cells and their specifications that results in Wh. Voltage of the pack x Ah of the parallel batteries = Wh. 10S4P 21700 3,6 V 5Ah each will 10x3,6V = 36V. 4x5Ah 20Ah. 36V x 20Ah = 720Wh.

Overall, which option is best? given that the engine is to be unlocked above 25km/h.

I would like the battery to weigh less than 3 kg / 6.61 lb

 

[mike_kelly]

Oh I thought they had the highest capacity on 43v my bad

Actfually they probably do have the most capacity. Watts is watts. But as Thaeber pointed out watts=voltage*current. So more voltage gives more watts for the same current. But since each cell is the same voltage 3.7v you need more cells to make a 43v battery than a 36v battery.

Some would argue that high torque is aided by higher current capability and high speed is aided by higher voltage. You don't get both and light weight and small space.
In this thread are the weights of the different batteries.

 

[forsa355]

A question for those who have built up their frames.
i am surprised the cable guides travel down the top tube and seat tube and not straight down the downtube. The "corner" between the top tube and seatube is pretty tight.
My cadence sensor was not connected and has a 4 ping connector when the M820 requires a 6 pin connector. They have an adapter in place but unconnected. I need to check and see if they used the correct cadence sensor for the M820.
Thanks
I should have asked is there any reason not to run the cables down the downtube except cables slapping .
I see that the plastic cable guides are just stuffed up the seat tube. I thought they when all the way to the headtube but they are just to guide the cables through the stays.

if the cables run through the top tube, how would you run your dropper post cable? Don't these need to connect from the bottom via the downtube?

 

[mike_kelly]

if the cables run through the top tube, how would you run your dropper post cable? Don't these need to connect from the bottom via the downtube?

My conclusion too. It was my mistake because the plastic guides on my bike went up the seat tube which was confusing. But only because I thought they continued up into the top tube but they don't. They are just stuffed up the seat tube to make it easier to re-install the motor for the person who tested it at the factory.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I've been heavily considering building up one of these Frames, whats the consensus of the strength and build quality? would it stand up to bigger jumps and rough trails? I currently ride and 2018 carbon stumpjumper running a 160mm fork and have never been worried about a break even when im pushing it at bike parks, im hoping to get the same from this bike if I choose to build one up. What do you guys think?

Check back in 6 months. Nobody really knows. I've done small jumps and drops with my CEF50 (8 rides in), but I'm no dirt jumper. Seems robust so far...

I have a full-powered LCES04 160/150. Light Carbon does a good job with their frames. I wanted the bigger battery or else I probably would've originally waited for the LCE930.

But I'm glad I didn't!So far my bigger travel 180/165 Enduro CEF50 rides well.

 

[Herculesridesebikes]

Check back in 6 months. Nobody really knows. I've done small jumps and drops with my CEF50 (8 rides in), but I'm no dirt jumper. Seems robust so far...

I have a full-powered LCES04 160/150. Light Carbon does a good job with their frames. I wanted the bigger battery or else I probably would've originally waited for the LCE930.

But I'm glad I didn't!So far my bigger travel 180/165 Enduro CEF50 rides well.

Yeah I guess it's too early to tell yet. I'd love to see Rob do a review of the LCE930 I think I'm leaning toward it due to the seat stay crossbar. The 410 battery should be enough for my application I think.

 

[Peter A]

Yeah I guess it's too early to tell yet. I'd love to see Rob do a review of the LCE930 I think I'm leaning toward it due to the seat stay crossbar. The 410 battery should be enough for my application I think.

I believe one is in the works, Jim from lightcarbon has been in contact with Rob about sending a frame his way.

 

[mike_kelly]

If you folks could indulge me for a short story. I love wolves. I go to Yellowstone every summer to watch wolves. Here is a little video my wife made of wolf puppies learning to swim,
So my theme for my CEF50 was wolves. Based on Norse-Viking mythology Odin supplied chariots for the sun and the moon to speed them across the heavens. But he grew tired of the slow progress across the sky. So he sent the sons of Fenrir, the wolf god, to encourage the sun and the moon by chasing them through the sky threatening that they would be consumed if the wolves caught them. If the wolves did catch them the world would turn cold and moral chaos would engulf the world. It would be the Ragnarok, the end of the world, with men and gods fighting until they all fell into the sea.
So this is my end of the world bike, which seems appropriate for these days.
The headtube is Fenrir the giant wolf god and the sides have Hati and Skoll the wolf brothers chasing the sun and the moon. The text on the downtube is in Nordic Rune alphabet and translated into english it says "Sendit".

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Just thought I would add some more input to the rationale of a bigger 720Wh battery for those coming from the full-powered realm. While mostly flat, I rode very loose and sandy singletrack for about 35-40% of my ride today. I alternated between the 4th (S+) and 5th (Boost) power modes.

I run 3" tires, so of course that helps float in sections that bog down flow. It was still fun though due to the speed and power though slow sections. The M820 is as powerful as I hoped. My full-powered M600 would have been superior, but not by that much!

Here's the results:

Range: 20 mi
Battery remaining: 40%
Ride time: 110 min
Average speed: 11.0 mph

 

[Myalteregohamish]

If you folks could indulge me for a short story. I love wolves. I go to Yellowstone every summer to watch wolves. Here is a little video my wife made of wolf puppies learning to swim,
So my theme for my CEF50 was wolves. Based on Norse-Viking mythology Odin supplied chariots for the sun and the moon to speed them across the heavens. But he grew tired of the slow progress across the sky. So he sent the sons of Fenrir, the wolf god, to encourage the sun and the moon by chasing them through the sky threatening that they would be consumed if the wolves caught them. If the wolves did catch them the world would turn cold and moral chaos would engulf the world. It would be the Ragnarok, the end of the world, with men and gods fighting until they all fell into the sea.
So this is my end of the world bike, which seems appropriate for these days.
The headtube is Fenrir the giant wolf god and the sides have Hati and Skoll the wolf brothers chasing the sun and the moon. The text on the downtube is in Nordic Rune alphabet and translated into english it says "Sendit".
View attachment 118718


View attachment 118719

View attachment 118720

Nicely done Mike

 

[Myalteregohamish]

Just thought I would add some more input to the rationale of a bigger 720Wh battery for those coming from the full-powered realm. While mostly flat, I rode very loose and sandy singletrack for about 35-40% of my ride today. I alternated between the 4th (S+) and 5th (Boost) power modes.

I run 3" tires, so of course that helps float in sections that bog down flow. It was still fun though due to the speed and power though slow sections. The M820 is as powerful as I hoped. My full-powered M600 would have been superior, but not by that much!

Here's the results:

Range: 20 mi
Battery remaining: 40%
Ride time: 110 min
Average speed: 11.0 mph

View attachment 118761

Do you recall how much elevation gain that was?

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Do you recall how much elevation gain that was?

Fairly flat but choppy dirt and sand...as we dry out in the desert, the horse people loosen up packed trail bed quite a bit plus a lot of sandy washes....hence the plus tire benefits.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

If you folks could indulge me for a short story. I love wolves. I go to Yellowstone every summer to watch wolves. Here is a little video my wife made of wolf puppies learning to swim,
So my theme for my CEF50 was wolves. Based on Norse-Viking mythology Odin supplied chariots for the sun and the moon to speed them across the heavens. But he grew tired of the slow progress across the sky. So he sent the sons of Fenrir, the wolf god, to encourage the sun and the moon by chasing them through the sky threatening that they would be consumed if the wolves caught them. If the wolves did catch them the world would turn cold and moral chaos would engulf the world. It would be the Ragnarok, the end of the world, with men and gods fighting until they all fell into the sea.
So this is my end of the world bike, which seems appropriate for these days.
The headtube is Fenrir the giant wolf god and the sides have Hati and Skoll the wolf brothers chasing the sun and the moon. The text on the downtube is in Nordic Rune alphabet and translated into english it says "Sendit".
View attachment 118718


View attachment 118719

View attachment 118720

Great build Mike! Lots of poetic symbolism and relevant mythos to your bike's badging. Truly a unique rig!

Just don't get eaten by a pack of those Yellowstone wolves we hear about on NatGeo Channel! The M820 is a powerful little motor, but it's still not fast enough to out run 'em for long.

 

[Myalteregohamish]

Great build Mike! Lots of poetic symbolism and relevant mythos to your bike's badging. Truly a unique rig!

Just don't get eaten by a pack of those Yellowstone wolf packs we hear about on NatGeo Channel! The M820 is a powerful little motor, but it's still not fast enough to out run 'em for long.

Could you imagine, you’re watching the 6 o’clock news that night, “ Yep, that’s right I am Mike Kelly from EMTB forums. I was riding my bike and I out of nowhere this pack of wolves start chasing me., I tried petting and speaking sweetly to them, but they weren’t having it., my wife’s the same way first thing in the morning, so you could say I have some experience here. If it wasn’t for my Bafang M820 I would’ve been done for I tell ya.”

 

[spokémon]

and install the Parallel Battery controller

Hey Mike, I'm very interested in how you go with this.
Please let us know your thoughts, setup, how it works, issues to avoid. Any info really.

thanks.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Could you imagine, you’re watching the 6 o’clock news that night, “ Yep, that’s right I am Mike Kelly from EMTB forums. I was riding my bike and I out of nowhere this pack of wolves start chasing me., I tried petting and speaking sweetly to them, but they weren’t having it., my wife’s the same way first thing in the morning, so you could say I have some experience here. If it wasn’t for my Bafang M820 I would’ve been done for I tell ya.”

Well, let's just hope Mike's Native American wolf animal spirit guide can collaborate with his Norse-wolf demigod to keep all safe!

 

[LAnton]

Could you imagine, you’re watching the 6 o’clock news that night, “ Yep, that’s right I am Mike Kelly from EMTB forums. I was riding my bike and I out of nowhere this pack of wolves start chasing me., I tried petting and speaking sweetly to them, but they weren’t having it., my wife’s the same way first thing in the morning, so you could say I have some experience here. If it wasn’t for my Bafang M820 I would’ve been done for I tell ya.”

You have a very interesting bike ride. I only met a bear once, but he was kind, probably already had someone to eat.

 

[mike_kelly]

You guys! Wolves had only been documented attacking a human once in the last 100years. The rest is hollywood. I spend 3 months, every day, watching them. They are curious. They are like humans. They have a "president" elected by the pack. They work together to raise the puppies. The boss is the alpha female. She leads the pack. The alpha male is the "general" warrior who leads the pack in battle against other packs intruding on the packs territory.
@LAnton I also like Grizzly Bears. Although I took this image in Alaska. He was just 40 ft away.

 

[mike_kelly]

Hey Mike, I'm very interested in how you go with this.
Please let us know your thoughts, setup, how it works, issues to avoid. Any info really.

thanks.

I have learned the hard way that you need batteries that don't have a separate charge and motor cable. The parallel battery switch works, with it's own charge cable, and I think there is room to put it inside the frame. I want to put a thermal sensor inside to make sure it is not getting too hot tho. I am also not sure exactly the maximun current the motor will pull in peak so I am not sure the 20amp switch I got will work. The larger 30amp etc definitely will not fit inside the frame. The battery that SZZS made me has a common charge and motor cable so it will work but I don't know about the Bafang made Batteries. Unfortunately my bottle battery does not have separate outputs. That means I can charge it by itself but not together with the internal battery.
I found a waterproof connector that fits the frame to bring out the charge cable and to bring in the external battery cable.

But I have to go to Yellowstone now and focus on packing and hit the road. But I will take it all with me.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

You guys! Wolves had only been documented attacking a human once in that last 100years. The rest is hollywood. I spend 3 months, every day, watching them. They are curious. They are like humans. They have a "president" elected by the pack. They work together to raise the puppies. The boss is the alpha female. She leads the pack. The alpha male is the "general" warrior who leads the pack in battle against other packs intruding on the packs territory.
@LAnton I also like Grizzly Bears. Although I took this image in Alaska. He was just 40 ft away.
View attachment 118787

Too close for me! Plus, I carry bear spray and a cowbell.

Although one ranger told me that the bell actually might attract mountain lion instead if riding at sunset.

The dangers of mt. biking...

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I have learned the hard way that you need batteries that don't have a separate charge and motor cable. The parallel battery switch works, with it's own charge cable, and I think there is room to put it inside the frame. I want to put a thermal sensor inside to make sure it is not getting too hot tho. I am also not sure exactly the maximun current the motor will pull in peak so I am not sure the 20amp switch I got will work. The larger 30amp etc definitely will not fit inside the frame. The battery that SZZS made me has a common charge and motor cable so it will work but I don't know about the Bafang made Batteries. Unfortunately my bottle battery does not have separate outputs. That means I can charge it by itself but not together with the internal battery.
I found a waterproof connector that fits the frame to bring out the charge cable and to bring in the external battery cable.
View attachment 118788
But I have to go to Yellowstone now and focus on packing and hit the road. But I will take it all with me.

Nice...I like the threaded cap better than the flimsy press cap that's a little challenging to secure it properly.

 

[Myalteregohamish]

I have learned the hard way that you need batteries that don't have a separate charge and motor cable. The parallel battery switch works, with it's own charge cable, and I think there is room to put it inside the frame. I want to put a thermal sensor inside to make sure it is not getting too hot tho. I am also not sure exactly the maximun current the motor will pull in peak so I am not sure the 20amp switch I got will work. The larger 30amp etc definitely will not fit inside the frame. The battery that SZZS made me has a common charge and motor cable so it will work but I don't know about the Bafang made Batteries. Unfortunately my bottle battery does not have separate outputs. That means I can charge it by itself but not together with the internal battery.
I found a waterproof connector that fits the frame to bring out the charge cable and to bring in the external battery cable.
View attachment 118788
But I have to go to Yellowstone now and focus on packing and hit the road. But I will take it all with me.

That waterproof cap is genius. Where did you find it? Super clean Mike.

 

[mike_kelly]

It is an SD20 four pin from Aliexpress.com The matching plug is a right angle for the bottle battery. I will use multiple plugs. One that only uses two pins for the bottle battery, one to rewire the Bafang charger connected to the other two pins.
The Bafang battery can only put out a max of 18 amps. So I hope that means my 20amp switch will work.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

That waterproof cap is genius. Where did you find it? Super clean Mike.

And do you need a separate charger to match? Looks like a 3-prong OEM versus your 4-pongaftermarket must mean new charger.

Can you send a link in the near future after you get settled in Yellowstone? I think many peeps may want the upgrade option, especially as weaker plastic hinge wears off over time.

 

[mike_kelly]

Interesting TC your charger plug is different than mine. MIne is a Bafang branded charger maybe the 720wa batteries have a third party charger?.

 

[mike_kelly]

Did you guys get the side cover or only the bottom cover for the M820?

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Interesting TC your charger plug is different than mine. Nice to know things are standard Mine is coaxial.

Oh wow? Got a pic of your stock SZZS plug?

Interesting TC your charger plug is different than mine. MIne is a Bafang branded charger maybe the 720wa batteries have a third party charger?.
View attachment 118798

I have that Bafang plug for M600. Bafang charger