SZZS specific CEF50-main thread (initial builds and troubleshooting related only)

[Tilt]

Le poids du vélo est de 16,3 kg.

View attachment 113152

16,3 kg vraiment super bravo

 

[stuff]

Carbon

Steel, def some weight can be cut from there

 

[spokémon]

Steel, def some weight can be cut from there

Bafang's 410Wh specification weight is 2.6Kg (I'm assuming without bracket)
Your scaled weight came in at 2.8Kg (with bracket)
So 200g for a steel bar seems ok to me? Not much more to lose I would think. Or am I being too forgiving? lol

 

[LAnton]

Bafang's 410Wh specification weight is 2.6Kg (I'm assuming without bracket)
Your scaled weight came in at 2.8Kg (with bracket)
So 200g for a steel bar seems ok to me? Not much more to lose I would think. Or am I being too forgiving? lol

The weight of the empty case is 1kg. I think that light models of well-known brands with non-removable batteries do not have such a heavy case. The frame itself is a strong case for the battery.

 

[stuff]

Bafang's 410Wh specification weight is 2.6Kg (I'm assuming without bracket)
Your scaled weight came in at 2.8Kg (with bracket)
So 200g for a steel bar seems ok to me? Not much more to lose I would think. Or am I being too forgiving? lol

100 for an Al would be better or even try to do it in CF or 3d printed.

 

[mike_kelly]

@Lee Nice paint job!!!

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Permission granted by @LEE. to show off his large frame w/big 36 forks/720Wh build.

Clean and white sleek in color 20.46 kg/45.11 lbs. It's the wet weight with sealant and pedals and loaded with premium componentry, so it won't get too much lighter!

Well done!

He's still working out headset issues, so he's not able to ride review it yet. He'll post updates when he's able. Others are likely doing a shakedown ride as I write, and will likely chime in when they're ready too hopefully!

Mine is still a week away or so!

Again, great build @LEE.!

 

[temon10]

Permission granted by @LEE. to show off his large frame w/big 36 forks/720Wh build.

Clean and white sleek in color 20.46 kg/45.11 lbs. It's the wet weight with sealant and pedals and loaded with premium componentry, so it won't get too much lighter!

Well done!

He's still working out headset issues, so he's not able to ride review it yet. He'll post updates when he's able. Others are likely doing a shakedown ride as I write, and will likely chime in when they're ready too hopefully!

Mine is still a week away or so!

Again, great build @LEE.! View attachment 113285 View attachment 113286

210x55 rearshock?

 

[TCFlowClyde]

210x55 rearshock?

Idk. I assume 50mm. I'll ask him.

 

[spokémon]

He's still working out headset issues

What's the headset issues?

off-topic: I stumbled across a nice forum feature. highlight text to reply. wow very nice.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

What's the headset issues?

off-topic: I stumbled across a nice forum feature. highlight text to reply. wow very nice.

Unknown. He didn't elaborate beyond saying a "gap" existed in the headset?

 

[TCFlowClyde]

210x55 rearshock?

He's using 52.5 mm stroke with no issues thus far.

I believe strongly a 55 mm stroke on a 27.5er rear should have clearance and no binding at the pivots. Again the same eye-to-eye is 210 for all strokes. Binding is very low probability inherently.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Just a quick reminder on stroke/travel calculation (guestimates):

OEM Spec: 210mm e2e x 50mm stroke = 150 mm travel

* known travel/known stroke = leverage ratio,
So 150/50 = 3 ratio

** 3 x 52.5 = 157.5 mm travel

***3 x 55 = 165 mm travel

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Also, note: front sus v. rear sus balance.

Rule-of thumb in in preventing extreme "rake" to reduce headset bearings binding.

OEM Spec 170 fork v. 150 rear shock = 20 mm difference. Axle to Crown (AC) length and fork offset for "trail" or steering ease are important also.

So, a 170f/150r tavel setup seems to be a good enough balance by the manufacturer (ZssZ) for the CEF50. 160f/150r might be more balanced, but I suspect it would be negligible.

I'm running a shorter wheel 27.5er + which is taller than a regular 27.5. So, I knew that I could "overstroke" my fork 180 mm/27.5er fork, as well as, "overstroke" the rear shock at 165 mm. I'd still be within the recommended AC length, hence preventing extreme rake and/or sketchy "trail" steering. This combo should yield controllable steering while having a nice feel for front to rear balance.

Overall, the balance should work well at 180 v. 165 = 15 mm difference, should produce an overall nice plush riding experience IMHO.

Remember, the trends for Emtb is longer travel due to pedal-motor assist. Full-powered (85 Nm+) is really no penalty. For 3/4-powered (65-75 Nm) and mid-powered (50-60Nm) there is slight weight penalty, and then more so for lower-powered (35 Nm+).

 

[mike_kelly]

I am using the complex formula ForkIgot140mm*nomomony=Cheap

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I am using the complex formula ForkIgot140mm*nomomony=Cheap

Yes, yes, impetuous "youth" always want bigger, faster, and "better"? It's subjective of course, but logical as a way to gain non-traditional plush w/o much penalty.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Yes, yes, impetuous "youth" always want bigger, faster, and "better"? It's subjective of course, but logical as a way to gain non-traditional plush w/o much penalty.

I also got my 180 ZEB fork "cheap" ...mainly because I'm one cheap-ass frugal bastard. It was almost half-off 2022 with the fancy 3.0 charger damper, buttercup low speed damper, air pressure bleed ports, blah blah, blah upgrades. Then I found a takeoff rear RS Superdelux, super cheap and did the negative air can upgrade called Meg-neg. Just way more bottom out resistance for bigger hitters or heavier riders (I'm just a smaller hitter at best but "big boned" so my sus gets worked out even on flatter rides)

Got all of the above for 1,100 +/-USD, so I decided to build a frame around it. I had my carbon wheelset waiting too. I just sold my still boxed spare emtb frame+rear shock+fork+used M600+2 450Wh batteries for $1,500 to a family member, so my brother got the "kindred discount"....I had extra XT brakes and drive train. So, I swapped my old AXS GX and bought another 500+/-USD components.

Anyway, I basically decided that I could get the CEF50 at a cheaper price than other M820 frames. The M820 seemed powerful enough and 720Wh bigger battery sealed the deal! So, lots of work to stay reasonably priced.

But that's what's great about a DIY build, customize and upgrade with used/new, borrowed, or "stolen" parts! Whatever gets the job done is the mantra of a cheap-ass-bastard-but-with-fine-tastes buying strategy.🫡

 

[mike_kelly]

That and it is fun to build yourself!
Yes I agree that in this day and age you have to shop around. Not only for close-outs and sales but 10 vendors may sell the same part normally for vastly different prices.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

That and it is fun to build yourself!
Yes I agree that in this day and age you have to shop around. Not only for close-outs and sales but 10 vendors may sell the same part normally for vastly different prices.

Promo discounts, price-matching, and occasionally bartering, as well as self-fabrication (your battery extender work-around) all valid for a DIY build = challenging the big, often overpriced (to me at least) bike companies and mostly patronizing local bike shop servicing.

Price savings against the establishment!

Plus, it's fun!

 

[mike_kelly]

Just think that we are all getting something similar to a $18K Forestal.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Just think that we are all getting something similar to a $18K Forestal.

Well, top spec diode is "ONLY" $13.5 k....but free shipping, so that's saving some !

But anything over $6-7k is really like 18k on my meager budget.🫣

 

[Suns_PSD]

Any ride reports coming back yet regarding the frame and the motor in particular?

The CEF50 doesn't have a flip chip or anything to compensate for a mullet configuration does it?

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Any ride reports coming back yet regarding the frame and the motor in particular?

The CEF50 doesn't have a flip chip or anything to compensate for a mullet configuration does it?

@Lee did some testing riding on his CEF50 build, but nothing extensive....still waiting!

No flip-chip. 29er designed mainly. But running wider/taller plus 2.8" gives good mud clearance for me....if I ever really need it. I'm in drier southwest . But yeah, chainstay is longer to accommodate a 29er...a minor ding on the design if running mixed.

 

[LAnton]

The frame manufacturer recommends a 51mm offset fork. Is it worth paying attention to?

 

[LAnton]

Any ride reports coming back yet regarding the frame and the motor in particular?

The CEF50 doesn't have a flip chip or anything to compensate for a mullet configuration does it?

I liked how the CEF50 and M820 rides. I like CEF 50 more than E10

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I liked how the CEF50 and M820 rides. I like CEF 50 more than E10

View attachment 113373 View attachment 113374

Slick!

 

[brbr]

Promo discounts, price-matching, and occasionally bartering, as well as self-fabrication (your battery extender work-around) all valid for a DIY build = challenging the big, often overpriced (to me at least) bike companies and mostly patronizing local bike shop servicing.

Price savings against the establishment!

Plus, it's fun!

Same here, for the LC frame, but buying used parts and finding cheap parts on internet! I think I will be just above 18kg and just above 3k€! (I’ve found a cheap used X01 )

 

[TCFlowClyde]

The frame manufacturer recommends a 51mm offset fork. Is it worth paying attention to?

I don't think so. 51deg OS seems right for a 29er fork. I believe it's the most common.

 

[Myalteregohamish]

Since this frame with a 29er supports a 210x50 shock and I’ve got a 2022 float x 210x55, does anyone know where I can get those little 2 piece 2.5mm spacers to reduce the stroke to 50?

 

[mike_kelly]

The frame manufacturer recommends a 51mm offset fork. Is it worth paying attention to?

It will slightly change the head angle and seatube angle. A 140mm fork would make the head angle steeper and a 180mm would make it slightly more slack.