SZZS specific CEF50-main thread (initial builds and troubleshooting related only)

[calvintys]

MY frame finally done, New Update CEF50 -V2 with Update Coil shock mount position and Chameleon color

 

[calvintys]

I did a special order request for T800 as i need to pay extra. Normal carbon size M with 2760 and my T800 is 2550, which is 210 gram saving

 

[calvintys]

please contact linda if anyone interested on T800 carbon on +86 19313711220

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Just quick motor cover follow-up. Linda said they did send out some Gen 3 covers to select consumers to "field test it".

I'm hoping somebody will do a quick video rolling over a log and/or going up technical steps to show impact durability. Or just take a rubber mallet and give progressive harder blows to the cover guard while unmounted on the ground?

Does anyone have the newest one in this group to share feedback?

Here's the convo below:

 

[dvng]

MY frame finally done, New Update CEF50 -V2 with Update Coil shock mount position and Chameleon color

View attachment 131066

Does it means any coil shocks will mount without any interference?

 

[calvintys]

Does it means any coil shocks will mount without any interference?

Should be not a problem for fox, rockshox and ohlin. I will be using ohlin.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

MY frame finally done, New Update CEF50 -V2 with Update Coil shock mount position and Chameleon color

View attachment 131066

Should be a sweet sheen in the sunlight especially. Plus that Ohlins coil will pair nicely. Look forward to seeing it built!

 

[Myalteregohamish]

Just a quick update to my post about the 52. I did talk to Linda. It looks like they’re not shipping anytime soon. They only have the frame and the motor. No pricing for either right now that she’s willing to give me nor does she give me an ETA, that said I’m somewhat hopeful although we need to source a battery, display and wiring harness from someplace else. She showed me a couple of pictures of motors that looks like about 16 of them.

 

[mike_kelly]

Checking to see if everyone has the same headset size as I do. My two bikes are definitely ZS56 top and ZS66 bottom. Someone indicated that their top bearing was 52 not 56. So I want to clarify the spec's and make sure everyone has the same headset size or maybe not?
Thanks

 

[patdam]

Checking to see if everyone has the same headset size as I do. My two bikes are definitely ZS56 top and ZS66 bottom. Someone indicated that their top bearing was 52 not 56. So I want to clarify the spec's and make sure everyone has the same headset size or maybe not?
Thanks

ZS56 / ZS66 for me.
I have tried ACROS ZS56 to 1" 1/8, to replace upper integrated wiring. Bad choice, it still had always some play on pivot. now i use only the upper part of ACROS ZS56 +- 0.6° angle set, it seem that the play problem is solved with it.

 

[mike_kelly]

Interesting. So the angleset to fits tighter than the standard top. Canecreek makes the 40 series Z56 also.
So anybody have a ZS52 top?

 

[like-bike]

please contact linda if anyone interested on T800 carbon on +86 19313711220

View attachment 131070

hi, Does Linda also have an email or website?

 

[TCFlowClyde]

hi, Does Linda also have an email or website?

I contact Linda on Alibaba. Shenzhen Zhaosheng Carbon Fiber Technology Co., Ltd.

But she gave me the head salesperson's email and the one that seems to have the most accurate info,: [email protected].

Linda is more responsive initially, though her follow-ups are mostly slow. In contrast, Jean makes the decisions and is likely more accurate as I understand it from other peeps on this thread. (It's been a source of minor, past conflict with Linda's info precision).

Hopefully no offense to others here.

 

[calvintys]

hi, Does Linda also have an email or website?

Company Overview - Shenzhen Zhaosheng Carbon Fiber Technology Co., Ltd.

Shenzhen Zhaosheng Carbon Fiber Technology Co., Ltd. Products:carbon road frame,carbon mtb frame,carbon suspension frame,carbon bicycle frame,carbon bicycle parts

szzsbike.m.en.alibaba.com

Just a company with several sale representatives. I am satisfied wirh her service.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Company Overview - Shenzhen Zhaosheng Carbon Fiber Technology Co., Ltd.

Shenzhen Zhaosheng Carbon Fiber Technology Co., Ltd. Products:carbon road frame,carbon mtb frame,carbon suspension frame,carbon bicycle frame,carbon bicycle parts

szzsbike.m.en.alibaba.com

Just a company with several sale representatives. I am satisfied wirh her service.

But now he has two contacts to work with, not just one. Right?

I've been working with Linda for more than a year now. She's nice, and mostly honest, but Jean is main sales contact for ZSSZ.

I just wish I would have gotten Jean's contact sooner for comparison about accuracy and any misunderstandings due to language barriers for deadlines and new manufacturing products/processes.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Interesting. So the angleset to fits tighter than the standard top. Canecreek makes the 40 series Z56 also.
So anybody have a ZS52 top?

Old ZSSZ IRC upper headset:
Bearing size is 52OD x 40ID.

New ZSSZ ICR upper headset:
Bearing size is 52OD x 42ID.

The new is thinner by 2 mm.

Proof? All digital caliper measurements with pics go to your separate thread.

ICR Headsets for the SZZS-specific CEF50 build

It should be but it only has two holes for cables.

www.emtbforums.com

 

[mike_kelly]

That is the confusion. Headset specs quote the internal bore of the headtube not the bearing size. So a ZS56 is a zero stack pressfit bearing cup for a 56mm bore headtube top.

 

[92se-r]

Old ZSSZ IRC upper headset:
Bearing size is 52OD x 40ID.

New ZSSZ ICR upper headset:
Bearing size is 52OD x 42ID.

The new is thinner by 2 mm.

Proof? All digital caliper measurements with pics go to your separate thread.

ICR Headsets for the SZZS-specific CEF50 build

It should be but it only has two holes for cables.

www.emtbforums.com

Thinner or larger? ID looks 2mm larger on the new bearing. To me that would seen more play unless the split ring is larger to compensate. Unless i am misunderstanding.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Thinner or larger? ID looks 2mm larger on the new bearing. To me that would seen more play unless the split ring is larger to compensate. Unless i am misunderstanding.

New bearing size 52-42 = 10 mm
Old bearing size 52-40 = 12 mm
_____
-2 mm

New bearing is -2 mm compared to Old Bearing...so 2 mm thinner is the new, while the old is 2 mm larger/thicker.

Sorry, I don't how else I can explain it.

See other thread for pics on the whole upper headset assembly.

 

[92se-r]

Gotcha, I thought you were talking about the inner diameter changing.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Gotcha, I thought you were talking about the inner diameter changing.

Yes ID internal diameter is large/wider for new. Which makes the bearing races more narrow in order to accommodate smaller ball bearings.

So for my new setup, I did a quality upgrade: Hellbender 70, to try accommodate the difference. Bigger ball bearings are more durable in the old 52/40. But the tradeoff for new top cap is the better design for separate cable management, especially the bigger display plug and it's likely more water resistant with the higher cup lip to cover the previous gap.

Luckily, if you're going standard side-frame routing the ZS 56 will have the more sturdy bigger ball 52/40 bearings! A win-win.

Although it does look nice and clean with the IRC.

 

[like-bike]

I contact Linda on Alibaba. Shenzhen Zhaosheng Carbon Fiber Technology Co., Ltd.

But she gave me the head salesperson's email and the one that seems to have the most accurate info,: [email protected].

Linda is more responsive initially, though her follow-ups are mostly slow. In contrast, Jean makes the decisions and is likely more accurate as I understand it from other peeps on this thread. (It's been a source of minor, past conflict with Linda's info precision).

Hopefully no offense to others here.

thank you

 

[mike_kelly]

When you go shopping for bearings from a vendor other than who made your headset there are other traps.
You have the angle that the outer and inner bevel is cut to. You also have the height of the bearing "d". These have to match the cups and the top cover.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

When you go shopping for bearings from a vendor other than who made your headset there are other traps.
You have the angle that the outer and inner bevel is cut to. You also have the height of the bearing "d". These have to match the cups and the top cover.
View attachment 131256

But when shopping, the retailers will know that it's a headset bearing vs. bottom bracket bearing with the likely 36 x 45°/or 45/45° degree angle where most upper and lower headset bearings are interchangeable if correct size is fitted.

The premium brands like Cane Creek do list all specs on their website: angles/ODxID with an reference number. I could've ordered from CC directly but got it JensonUSA for $30 cheaper on my Hellbender purchase.

Same with Enduro Bearings for older SZZS cap. They list the specs and reference # on their website and then I went to JensonUSA with 20% discount and got the right match fortunately.

Sure, be nice if it was easier, but not impossible, just requires decent Internet research skills and group forums like this to independently confirm compatibility and ideally purchasing links.

 

[92se-r]

I have been debating between the cef50 and the lightcarbon version. I think the biggest selling point for me is the larger cavity and ability to diy a larger battery for the same weight as the 410wh battery. Does anyone have the internal cavity dimensions for the cef50?

Additionally, ive noticed both frames have rather long chainstays, with the lightcarbon being worse. I am used to 435 to 440mm chainstays. Have you guys noticed ill handling effects going to a 450mm chainstay? Have you guys confirmed it actually is 450?

Also, i noticed a new 710wh battery available now. Is that a 48v or 43v version? What is everyones opinion on whether to go 48v or 43v? Is the 410wh available in 48v?

Last question, I am coming off a Shimano E8000 bike. I typically ride in Trail mode. How does the Bafang 820 ride compared to Shimano Trail and Shimano Boost?

Appreciate the active members on this thread, it really helps me decide to pull the trigger just from the level of support available.

 

[mike_kelly]

I like the aesthetic of the 930a better. But the CEF50 was available with motor and battery and I wanted a single responsible source. Zhaosheng has really been good at communications taking some of the risk from buying from China. They also have done a very good job of responding to requests. Jim Lee is also very responsive but Lightcarbon in the begnning could not supply motors or batteries and they were slow to provide larger sizes. Might all be different now.
I rode an Orbea Rise before the CEF50. The CEF50 is much punchier than the Rise but, of course, the Rise was purposely restricted down to 65nm. The Bafang M820 is a little noisier than the EP8R. The controllers on both provide a nice smooth assist.
A higher voltage battery is better because you can have smaller wires but the question is whether Bafang bothers to reduce the wire size on the higher voltage motors. Voltage makes no different on performance. The availability of external range extender batteries might be an issue. When i bought mine 43v was and still is an oddball voltage so I stuck with 36v to be able to use a readily available bottle battery of 36v. The 36v 720whr battery was the only one available in the beginning.
I leave the DIY battery builders to answer some of your other questions.

 

[92se-r]

I like the aesthetic of the 930a better. But the CEF50 was available with motor and battery and I wanted a single responsible source. Zhaosheng has really been good at communications taking some of the risk from buying from China. They also have done a very good job of responding to requests. Jim Lee is also very responsive but Lightcarbon in the begnning could not supply motors or batteries and they were slow to provide larger sizes. Might all be different now.
I rode an Orbea Rise before the CEF50. The CEF50 is much punchier than the Rise but, of course, the Rise was purposely restricted down to 65nm. The Bafang M820 is a little noisier than the EP8R. The controllers on both provide a nice smooth assist.
A higher voltage battery is better because you can have smaller wires but the question is whether Bafang bothers to reduce the wire size on the higher voltage motors. Voltage makes no different on performance. The availability of external range extender batteries might be an issue. When i bought mine 43v was and still is an oddball voltage so I stuck with 36v to be able to use a readily available bottle battery of 36v. The 36v 720whr battery was the only one available in the beginning.
I leave the DIY battery builders to answer some of your other questions.

Really appreciate the feedback. Does the bafang transition to motor assist pretty seamlessly? Is there any delays? Shimano is pretty smooth and fast to detect torque and then provide assist.

 

[calvintys]

Really appreciate the feedback. Does the bafang transition to motor assist pretty seamlessly? Is there any delays? Shimano is pretty smooth and fast to detect torque and then provide assist.

Custom tune your motor assist to your desire riding style.

 

[mike_kelly]

Really appreciate the feedback. Does the bafang transition to motor assist pretty seamlessly? Is there any delays? Shimano is pretty smooth and fast to detect torque and then provide assist.

My experience is that the M820 is very smooth. If you read back in the thread someone commented that the start angle could be adjusted so that there is no delay. I have not really noticed it as a problem. I notice no delay in the change of assist levels. I did not want an electric motorcycle. I first started with a bike with a BBSHD and it only had a cadence sensor. So it could jerk around. If you just rotated the pedals a bit in the boost mode you would take off. I loved the Orbea because it was more like "a tailwind" and so is the M820 to me. But I am a user who does not want a full eMTB experience so take my comments with a "grain of salt". I want to feel like I am riding a MTB, just with a little help. Others may be Enduro riders that want a big boost back up to the top. Maybe someone who owns a full power Bafang like TC will comment about the comparison.

 

[LAnton]

My experience is that the M820 is very smooth. If you read back in the thread someone commented that the start angle could be adjusted so that there is no delay. I have not really noticed it as a problem. I notice no delay in the change of assist levels. I did not want an electric motorcycle. I first started with a bike with a BBSHD and it only had a cadence sensor. So it could jerk around. If you just rotated the pedals a bit in the boost mode you would take off. I loved the Orbea because it was more like "a tailwind" and so is the M820 to me. But I am a user who does not want a full eMTB experience so take my comments with a "grain of salt". I want to feel like I am riding a MTB, just with a little help. Others may be Enduro riders that want a big boost back up to the top. Maybe someone who owns a full power Bafang like TC will comment about the comparison.

You're right to say that. I drove the M820 for several months and it was boring for me. I missed the M600 engine. Now I'm riding the M560. It's more fun for me to ride on the M560 and I'm having fun.