Non-ICR headset, internal frame cable guide conversion for the SZZS-specific CEF50

TCFlowClyde

Active member
Feb 26, 2022
1,335
863
Mesa, AZ
Problems with ICR ZS56/28.6 headsets? Me too! I have two in 8 months with uniquely different issues discussed later.

First, all Internal Cable Routing third party headsets are new, and thus questions of precision and durability are at the forefront.

Second, I like the idea, it provides a very clean look, but because it has more moving parts than a non-ICR headset, it introduces variabilities that are difficult to troubleshoot, so I'm giving up and going back to the traditional ZS headset with internal frame cable routing. Doing it by drilling some cutout ports and stuffing in plastic and /or rubber cable grommets and guides.

Third, I want the high bearing tolerances and cup precision that a traditional Enduro headset can handle for my 38mm Zeb fork and crush force resistance potential for my heavy rider load and small bump/jump/drop compliances.

Currently, there are 4 known ZS56 upper headset assemblies (cap, cartridge bearing [52/40 mm and 45Β°/45Β° angled bearings], cup, and cover plate/dust plate, stem cap and bolt, a reducer and star nut) out there:

1) Cane Creek (US), 2) Work Components (UK), 3) Woodman (Taiwan) and FUNN Components (Taiwan). They all make a ZS56/28.6 (semi-integrated headtube opening measurement and 28.6/1 1/8" top cap opening). Both Cane Creek and Work Components have full ZS56/28.6 UPPER + ZS56/40 lower headset. So, you might save some cash to earn forward and eBay off the lower one. Woodman and Funn make a dedicated ZS56/28.6 headset assembly.

1) Cane Creek 40 full headset assembly is easy to find in the US and goes from $55-75. The "40 series" is considered mid-end quality and not at the high as the DJ/DH "Hellbender series". The "110 series" has a most durable premium bearing build somehow, but only the 40 series is available at ZS56/28.6 top assembly. The Hellbender 70 in this size planned apparently "...soon..." stated by the CC rep earlier today. Can always upgrade later, which is easy since it's a traditional headset and thus no trimming of the rear brake line. Which Shimano BH90 is expensive on my Saints calipers. 😝 See link:πŸ‘‡


2) The Works Components full assembly is the most pricey $80-$100. Harder to get in the US. I hear it's quality is in premium 7075 Al and precision bearings. It's got a clever off-set to collapse or expand reach 6 mm for more comfort. They also make an angle set, where the top is flat and centered, whereas the bottom only angles. See link:πŸ‘‡

Reach Adjust ZS56-ZS56 - To Suit 1 1/8" Steerer - 6mm


3) The Woodman...just upper assembly sells for $39 with faster shipping international. Can't attest to their quality. See link: πŸ‘‡

WOOdman TB TZS

4) FUNN Components out of Taiwan is also just the upper assembly for $25 on Amazon.com. Great spd/DH platform pedals and many swear by the quality of their other components, but I'd guess not as good as a trusted Cane Creek 40. See πŸ‘‡

Link: Funn Descend Upper Headset, Zero Stack Angular Contact Bearing Upper Headset, Alloy Bike Headset for Mountain Bike, BMX Bike, Road Bike and Gravel Bike Amazon.com

Suggested frame plastic port cable guides and grommets will be discussed in the future...
One possible screw-in clamp ICR frame guide is Levo Gen 3. See link:πŸ‘‡
🚫Nope I returned them... they're curved.


Also, I'll try to post my conversion cutout process and install...
 
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TCFlowClyde

Active member
Feb 26, 2022
1,335
863
Mesa, AZ
Sweet! Hope Tech recently added a new line of ZS56/28.6 top assembly headsets. Hope makes known quality, great color bling schemes and race precision CNC, as well as bomb-proof Enduro brand bearings. Available in the US in only a few places. Got mine for $60. Decided to return the standard black Cane Creek 40 and go for the extra purple bling to compliment my frame/component blingy cosmetics.πŸ‘‘

 
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TCFlowClyde

Active member
Feb 26, 2022
1,335
863
Mesa, AZ
GOOD NEWS!😝

I believe that this is my last serious transaction with SZZS and Linda. After a work-week delay, I will finally get a tracking number for the screw-in cable guides sent out today. 🀞
Screenshot_20240315-145101~2.png

I ordered air express DHL 5-9 days. Sure it was just 4 pieces of plastic the size of a thumb πŸ‘ for $30, but I figured the extra fees (3x the ship by sea) would be worth it so my bike isn't down longer than expected. So, 5 days passes before it will actually be shipped.

🚫 It took 3 days to convince Linda that I had the correct drill bits (literally caliper measures and photos) for my Dremel.

🚫 It took 2 days prior to convince her that I did not have the 1.8" super tapered steerer tube. Took pics of my Acros 66x40 headset and my Zeb tube.

🚫 And 1 week to find out that my upper bearing cup was the culprit.

🚫 Last, 1 week pervious for Linda to show me the SZZS upper assembly.

So what, 3-4 weeks to convince Linda that their upper headset cup is out of spec creating slop?

To be fair, because SZZS makes frames, it's no surprise their headsets are shit. They need dedicated technical support, which isn't gonna happen. Linda is sales and doesn't know which bike components are which unfortunately. Sure she is nice and affable but it's manipulative niceness...you know sales! πŸ˜‰

I ordered the fastest shipping possible with expectation that it'll ship in 24-48 hours, NOT sit on it 5 days and only ship it when I complained. Said to Linda "good bike, bad consumer support" and tired of ridiculous excuses for delays or errors. Called her friendly but incompetent and delivered shameful sales/tech support services.

I went the mild "shame "route. That lit a fire of rebuttals and excuses from her. Then wanted to know if we were still friends. I stated NO, that this is a business transaction. That my bike hasn't been ridden since March 3rd.

I requested to ship out my frame cable guides today and that I'm going to work with Jean in future if I ever have to. Which probably won't matter in the long run...πŸ€” If it's not a frame thing, it's just diminishing returns. Damn, I like the bike even Linda to an informal extent, but predictably poor after-purchase customer service and definitely incompetence tech support (i.e., motor covers 1-3 and ICR headsets 1&2).πŸ‘Ή

πŸ‘‡This is in Arizona, USA nearby Gold Canyon trail system at the foot of the Superstitions. Mainly blue with some black and a little red level (never been down 'em for fear of injury and death). This is the peak riding season and missing it...hoping to be back in it the next week or so, with a traditional headset and old school frame internal wiring! 😎
PXL_20240304_235636197.jpg
 
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LAnton

Active member
May 12, 2022
550
458
Russia
We need patience, since we assemble the bikes ourselves. I don't like these headsets either, so I ordered a new frame with traditional holes in the frame. I communicate with Jin on WeChat. She always responds on time and makes decisions quickly. Even on New Year's holidays, she answered me. I like the service, usually delivery takes 5 days in China and delivery across the border takes 3 days. I think LC and Dengfu also have a problem with the headset. If I am interested in technical issues, she will always check with the engineer. I was even given advice on how to make a cutout in the frame for a removable battery and how to properly strengthen the frame with carbon fiber so that the frame does not lose its strength. LC forces you to buy a frame along with a battery and a motor. Dengfu may not respond for 2 weeks. I really don't like it. But the CEF50 is the most beautiful and lightest frame :)
 

TCFlowClyde

Active member
Feb 26, 2022
1,335
863
Mesa, AZ
We need patience, since we assemble the bikes ourselves. I don't like these headsets either, so I ordered a new frame with traditional holes in the frame. I communicate with Jin on WeChat. She always responds on time and makes decisions quickly. Even on New Year's holidays, she answered me. I like the service, usually delivery takes 5 days in China and delivery across the border takes 3 days. I think LC and Dengfu also have a problem with the headset. If I am interested in technical issues, she will always check with the engineer. I was even given advice on how to make a cutout in the frame for a removable battery and how to properly strengthen the frame with carbon fiber so that the frame does not lose its strength. LC forces you to buy a frame along with a battery and a motor. Dengfu may not respond for 2 weeks. I really don't like it. But the CEF50 is the most beautiful and lightest frame :)
Yeah, I gotcha. We kinda have to be....no alternatives in this one scenario. Can't readily find these screw-in, clamp-down frame guides. Just hate having my rig being down longer due to dumb delays with weak excuses.😞🀬😁

Yes, Linda is always friendly and mostly responsive. But not that accurate, hence the crux of the matter on these damn bearing cups among other issues in the past. 🀯

It was definitely frustrating, She actually was not going to sell me the cable guides for the frame cutouts until I showed her my frame cut-out procedure. Had to show her my tools. Measure bits etc. It took several messages over days just to re-assure her that this was the only way to ride my frame. And that I've done several carbon frame and rim repairs in the past.πŸ‘Ή

I got it that she is worried that mistakes may make a warranty claim? But this HD carbon is great for cutting, sanding and painting. It's like hard plastic, no fraying....leaves carbon dust, when cut with a diamond wheel, so very DIY doable fortunately!πŸ‘Š

Anyway, hoping I don't have to contact SZZS for a long time or at all after this latest work-around. Everything else is either with Bafang or me if/when an error occurs.😁
 
Last edited:

TCFlowClyde

Active member
Feb 26, 2022
1,335
863
Mesa, AZ
Why didn't you buy these parts?
I would love to buy them, but they are far away.
These won't fit unfortunately. They're curved. I had them in my hands last week to physically inspect them. I returned them. 😞
 

TCFlowClyde

Active member
Feb 26, 2022
1,335
863
Mesa, AZ
Last edited:

TCFlowClyde

Active member
Feb 26, 2022
1,335
863
Mesa, AZ
Got 'em today for SZZS.
PXL_20240326_232714842.jpg
PXL_20240326_232728837.jpg


Dumb question: Am I cutting the frame rough opening to the size under the lip of the top cover (red arrows)... right?πŸ‘‡
PXL_20240326_232529774~2.jpg
 

TCFlowClyde

Active member
Feb 26, 2022
1,335
863
Mesa, AZ
OK, getting ready to cut the rough opening (RO) here. I deduce that since the top cover of the cable guide goes in last, the insert part of it below the flange is the RO of the frame cut out. The bottom portion gets tipped backward then forward as suggest by MK (with the screw loose but attached) and slides back into position.

Ultimately, it acts like clamp on the internal frame sidewall...clever modification really and critical to anchoring the guide into place. Also, seated on top securely while resisting cable tension and movement due to the turning radius of the steering arc during a crash. That is, when the handlebars at extreme pathway yank on the cables. 😝

i'm I incorrect? Feel free to offer cogent counter points. Or please chime in if the above sounds logical...kind of new territory here.πŸ”­
PXL_20240329_215307399.jpg
PXL_20240329_215254900.jpg
PXL_20240329_215241970.jpg
 
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TCFlowClyde

Active member
Feb 26, 2022
1,335
863
Mesa, AZ
That's the old brake line I had to cut off and sacrifice on my second ICR headset upgrade... So no impedance...this time I'll slice though the side top cover and epoxy/glue it back to get the olive on the new existing brake cable through. Then same for the display cable on the other side.

Someone showed the slice procedure in the main thread a few weeks ago.
 

TCFlowClyde

Active member
Feb 26, 2022
1,335
863
Mesa, AZ
Quick-and-dirty conversion practice frame (the original frame was cracked around the motor guard tab which was non-structural). Not bad for 10 minutes per cutout and free-hand.πŸ‘‡
PXL_20240401_010319405.jpg

PXL_20240401_005854916.jpg

Goal: Get some practice and be quick. Also, check the cable routing pathway. I decided the higher on the top tube was most direct as the cable travels above the battery and motor. πŸ‘‡
Screenshot_20240331-072626~2.png


Step 1: I free-handed it. I tried to trace a template of the top cover plate under the flange with limited success on to blue painters tape. It's hard due to a protruding plastic mount for the screw. (I'll explain details at a later date). Not worth showing. I'll probably use balsa wood to cut templates for my painted warranty frame and tape them on to provide a slightly better 3-D routing edge.πŸ‘‡
PXL_20240401_010104863.jpg

Step 2: I used a 24 mm diamond coated cutting wheel. Actually perfect for the double and single cable guide side. See pic. πŸ‘‡

PXL_20240401_010401543.jpg

Step 3. Cutting to horizontal upper and lower length-wise, then I made 2 diagonal cuts to make an X cut. Then I free-handed the cutting wheel to route out the rough openings (RO). I forgot to buy a diamond coated 6 mm routing burr which makes easier, but I knew this was practice, so I went for it.

Step 4. When routing the RO, keep fitting the top cover to try to squeeze it in for a tight fitment. (This took 5-10x on average per size.)

Minor mistakes to the double side. (Green arrows.) πŸ‘‡
PXL_20240401_005854916~3.jpg

#1 error. (top arrow) Slight over-cut lengthwise but tiny gap can easily be sealed with glue to prevent water ingress.
#1 correction. Use 6 mm router burr and better template.
#2 error. (bottom arrow) Routing with cutting wheel brought my rotary handle too close to lower part of the frame and rubbed off some sheen. This would probably scratch my clear coat on the painted frame.
#2 correction. Use a router burr that allows the rotary tool to be used at angles that avoid contact with the frame.

Top view with full cable guide screwed in.πŸ‘‡ PXL_20240401_014937910.jpg

The real conversion coming soon.... PXL_20240401_005854916~2.jpg
 
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TCFlowClyde

Active member
Feb 26, 2022
1,335
863
Mesa, AZ
Here's the painted frame conversion. πŸ‘‡

New conventional ZS 56 headset.
PXL_20240404_144028345.jpg
Drive sideπŸ‘‡
PXL_20240404_142014028.jpg

Brake sideπŸ‘‡
PXL_20240404_142003314.jpg

Front view.πŸ‘‡
PXL_20240404_142021538.jpg


Not pretty, but function over form. No more loose top headset🀞.
 
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TCFlowClyde

Active member
Feb 26, 2022
1,335
863
Mesa, AZ
Here's a few tools and techniques I used to improve the second frame conversion.

Tools used. 16 mm diamond coated cutting wheel for initial cuts. Then a 6 mm dc routing burr.πŸ‘‡
PXL_20240402_232908935.MP~2.jpg


My cardboard templates. Greater precision this way.πŸ‘‡
PXL_20240402_235900792.jpg

My tape prepπŸ‘‡
PXL_20240402_225801330.jpg


The cutout.πŸ‘‡
PXL_20240402_233146096.jpg

The final install.πŸ‘‡
PXL_20240402_232943948~3.jpg
 
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TCFlowClyde

Active member
Feb 26, 2022
1,335
863
Mesa, AZ
My amateur "forensic analysis" of the upgraded SZZS top headset. The lip was initially raised on the top bearing cup compared to the original SZZS top cap. At first, I thought this was to prevent water ingress which was good. Maybe it was just poor machining tolerance?😱
PXL_20240405_225708034.MP.jpg


Symptomatology.
#1 The first symptom I was noticing was tiny specks of silver aluminum shavings that appeared at the topcap/top tube interface. (I didn't take a pic unfortunately). Should be black not raw metal.πŸ‘‡
PXL_20240405_225613478.jpg

PXL_20240405_225618633.jpg

#2 The second one was a light feel but growing looseness in the fork. (It took about 30 days.)

Mechanism of action. The aluminum topcap ground down the 1 mm lip of the aluminum top bearing cup creating some headset slop?πŸ€”
PXL_20240405_225603301.jpg
 
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Yozha

Member
Sep 10, 2023
64
38
Kazakhstan
Hi TCFlowClyde!
I ordered the frame with external cable routing. Did I understand correctly that I don’t need to rely on the quality of the supplied headset and it’s better to immediately order a reliable Hope?
 

TCFlowClyde

Active member
Feb 26, 2022
1,335
863
Mesa, AZ
Hi TCFlowClyde!
I ordered the frame with external cable routing. Did I understand correctly that I don’t need to rely on the quality of the supplied headset and it’s better to immediately order a reliable Hope?
OEM is junk. Hope and Cane Creek were my two top choices. But go to the begining of this non-ICR headset thread for the full list all 5 ZS56 tops prices and links if you haven't already.πŸ‘Š
 
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Yozha

Member
Sep 10, 2023
64
38
Kazakhstan
OEM is junk. Hope and Cane Creek were my two top choices. But go to the begining of this year non-ICR headset thread for the full list al ZS56 tops prices and links.
I read it, there are too many options for me to choose. I'll order red Hope - it's of good quality and will fit my red frame))
Another question: do I need to change the lower bearing? If yes, which one do you recommend?
 

TCFlowClyde

Active member
Feb 26, 2022
1,335
863
Mesa, AZ
I read it, there are too many options for me to choose. I'll order red Hope - it's of good quality and will fit my red frame))
Another question: do I need to change the lower bearing? If yes, which one do you recommend?
Yeah, I did. Acros 66 out of Germany...great precision.
 

TCFlowClyde

Active member
Feb 26, 2022
1,335
863
Mesa, AZ

PaulH

New Member
Apr 23, 2024
27
19
Dallas, Texas USA
Acros now has the ZS66/40 lower bearing set in stock (they were out for a while) and ready for order so I was going to order that from Germany for the CEF50 but now they also have the non-IRC headset also available (ZS56/28.6) but has two options in a drop-down box when ordering (OD 63mm or OD 62mm). No other upper headset has this option that I have seen.

Which of the two would be correct the CEF 50 the 63 or 62mm OD? I was planning on getting the Hope for the upper but just ordering the one lower bearing from Acros the shipping cost is a lot but the same to get the upper a long with it. I acknowledge the Hope has greater bling factor but Acros is German. Plus it just feels better to get both from the same manufacturer for some reason and be done with it.

Thoughts?
 

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