Dengfu E22 Frame Thread

[bram.biesiekierski]

After chewing up a couple of SRAM cassettes, especially the smaller cogs due to lack of chain wrap and high torque and speed thrills. I came to the same conclusion as above but having dealt with IGH's in the past and knowing the cost of entry into that world, as well as complexity, I decided to just go ghetto and sourced the cheapest 1:1 system I could find which is made by Sensah. Steel cage derailleur, all steel cassette 10/50 in 11spd. 1:1 was important because I run grip shift but they make their own shifters which to me are clunky but I would imagine any SRAM shifter would work as well lined with compatible speeds. But the steel was what I was after damn the weight which I didn't notice at all. The SRAM derailleurs I had both were sloppy in the lower cage I thought and wondered if that had some effect on the skipping. The steel cage derailleur feels much more firm when tugged on and although it lacks a clutch it seems to be holding up just fine and provides consistent shifts.

I've got about 400 miles on this now and it really seems to outperform the stock SRAM Eagle that came on the bike by enough so that I think I'll just stick with it. Still working well in the small cogs unless I really get after it trying to do 25mph up to the trail head and have to back off to 23.....

For the bargain basement entry cost of under $200 all in the cassettes are like a $40/50 replacement part or about as much as a good chain which is always worth spending some $$ on. I know that some put a big ? beside anything that is considered to be "cheap" but sometimes it works for someone at least.

I might look into the sensah. I went with box prime for similar reasons. It was a cheap, steel groupset. I paid AUD $250 for a complete Box 2 group. Which is a bargain basement prices IMO.

I also bought a Box 3 group at the same (for about AUD $200), aswell as a few chains, and master links etc.

So I can swap the cassette and chain out and keep on going for now. But it won't stop it from happening again in another 100kms.

 

[CaptainBobt]

Well, Mabman just said he chewed up numerous Sram cassettes on his bike when he started out. (On previous page)

Maybe not wearing out as fast as I am, but still fast enough for him to change it up to Sensai or something like that.

I bet money that before long, your Sram cassette will also wear out. My e13 12spd wore out the mid gears, and the high gears also suffered. The mid gears because they get used the most, and the high gears because they have alot less chain wrap.

Now on my Box Prime group, the mid gears are wearing, enough that i can easily see the wear by eye. The high gears look fine still. In both cases the low gears were perfect. The low gears have the most chain interface, and therefore probably least likely to wear.

Only time will tell, I did break a shimano run of the mill 14/32, 7speed and tore the derailure right off the bike as well. That was with My BBHD running 2000+ watts I switched to the scram gx platform and never looked back. So hopefully this will be the same with the m620 albeit it has a different way of applying power not only in pure torque but how it delivers it. The m620 torque sensor is gold to me it seems to ramp up delivering power as I need it and backs off when I do . keep in mind I'm peddalling all the time and usually only use throttle on initial takeoff or on a very steep climb.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Im wondering if I will even be able to get the old cassette of the Shimano HG freehub. I've mangled splines on those using leg power alone. I can only imagine the state of the splines after looking at this latest cassette.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

I have ordered a cheap 50t chainring. When I swap to my spare box prime cassette, I'll chuck the 50t on, with new chains.

(I say chains, plural, because I will likely need to join 2 chains together to go around everything.)

That might last 150kms next time because the larger chainring LOL.

Im still weighing options going forwards. And sending enquiries to the various IGH manufacturers.

I've been doing a heap of overtime lately. I'm on track for charging out 100hrs this fortnight. And it looks like there is no shortage of work coming up. So that will make the IGH cost bearable.

 

[CaptainBobt]

I have ordered a cheap 50t chainring. When I swap to my spare box prime cassette, I'll chuck the 50t on, with new chains.

(I say chains, plural, because I will likely need to join 2 chains together to go around everything.)

That might last 150kms next time because the larger chainring LOL.

Im still weighing options going forwards. And sending enquiries to the various IGH manufacturers.

I've been doing a heap of overtime lately. I'm on track for charging out 100hrs this fortnight. And it looks like there is no shortage of work coming up. So that will make the IGH cost bearable.

Lol. ya I know the chains/plural story all to well. Been there with a 52t chainring on a different bike. I'm thinking of the 50t upfront as well I'm topping out at 36mph with the 40t and 10t pedalling as hard as I can in sport 5 mode. Bet it'll hit 40 42 mph with a 50 chainring. I'll be curious to see your report when you swap out. As you, I want to make better use of the lower gears on my casette as well.

 

[Tomteam]

I have ordered a cheap 50t chainring. When I swap to my spare box prime cassette, I'll chuck the 50t on, with new chains.

(I say chains, plural, because I will likely need to join 2 chains together to go around everything.)

That might last 150kms next time because the larger chainring LOL.

Im still weighing options going forwards. And sending enquiries to the various IGH manufacturers.

I've been doing a heap of overtime lately. I'm on track for charging out 100hrs this fortnight. And it looks like there is no shortage of work coming up. So that will make the IGH cost bearable.

Did you buy a BCD 130 chainring?
Are you sure the 50t chainring won't touch the Chainstay?

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Did you buy a BCD 130 chainring?
Are you sure the 50t chainring won't touch the Chainstay?

Yeah. To fit the standard spider.

No, I'm not sure it will fit 100%. But I think it will. It is a cheap one, so no big deal if it doesn't fit. The standard spider has an inner and outer mount. I actually think the outer mount gives a slightly better chainline for most gears. But with the 50t, you will naturally want to be in lower gears more often I think. So if it fits on the inner mount it might actually offer a better chainline for those lower gears.

On a side topic. One thing I have noticed is frame flex when under load. The chain pulls the whole rear triangle sideways. I guess using more lower gears, which are closer to the center line of the bike will have a very slight positive effect in that regard.

 

[Zymurgist]

Are there any other options worth considering? I'd briefly look at rohlof, but they won't sell 148x12 spacing except to OEMs. Plus 14 gears with very closer ratio steps is not a good choice for ebikes IMHO.

I have a Rohloff hub on my eBike and do find that I am shifting two gears at a time quite often. I have it paired with a belt drive and do love the maintenance free drivetrain though.

 

[CaptainBobt]

Yeah. To fit the standard spider.

No, I'm not sure it will fit 100%. But I think it will. It is a cheap one, so no big deal if it doesn't fit. The standard spider has an inner and outer mount. I actually think the outer mount gives a slightly better chainline for most gears. But with the 50t, you will naturally want to be in lower gears more often I think. So if it fits on the inner mount it might actually offer a better chainline for those lower gears.

On a side topic. One thing I have noticed is frame flex when under load. The chain pulls the whole rear triangle sideways. I guess using more lower gears, which are closer to the center line of the bike will have a very slight positive effect in that regard.

I just dry fitted an old 48t I had in the toy box. different mount but centered and laid it over the exsiting chainring it that clears the chainstay by .8 inches so I'd be willing to guesstimate the 50 will just make it mounted on the outboard side of the spider.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

I have a Rohloff hub on my eBike and do find that I am shifting two gears at a time quite often. I have it paired with a belt drive and do love the maintenance free drivetrain though.

Yes, The gear steps on the Rohloff are quite close. I can see how that could cause you to want to grab 2 at a time. Although it's probably great on a manual powered bike.

It seams the more ebike oriented IGH manufacturers that are coming to market all seam to choose lower number of gears, with larger steps between gears. And that would definitely be the direction I would want to head if I do buy an IGH for the e22.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

I just dry fitted an old 48t I had in the toy box. different mount but centered and laid it over the exsiting chainring it that clears the chainstay by .8 inches so I'd be willing to guesstimate the 50 will just make it mounted on the outboard side of the spider.

I also got a 46t to try aswell, just incase the 50t is too much. I am hoping the 46t can fit under the chain guide I fitted the other day.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Just clicked over 200kms on the e22. Got out for a ride on both saturday and sunday this weekend. Good to blow off some steam after the hectic work week. The box prime cassette is definitely toast. Was starting to skip pretty bad in the 4th and 5th gears, at full power. 6th gear was still good, so I found myself using the higher gear more, even though it felt a bit too high at times, just to avoid 5th gear. That means I'm averaging 100kms per cassette.

These 2 rides I did use lower assist, keeping it in level 2 most of the time. Also reducing the amount of throttle im using. Got 25kms out of the battery charge on the Sunday ride. Which is nice compared to my usual 15-20kms.

I feel my cardio is improving, and I am using more legs over motor.

Check out my activity on Strava: https://strava.app.link/MkZSkKfMFsb

Check out my activity on Strava: https://strava.app.link/zbPJ0qkMFsb

 

[El Topo]

I am still looking at this frame - to those running an 18" sized frame - what is your inseam and can you stand comfortably over the top tube? If yes, what is your wheel diameter?

@Daxxie didn't you build an 18" frame?

Thanks!

 

[thaeber]

cheers, anybody else using this stock part without issues?

No this expander does not work properly. Its made for carbon shaft (as mentioned before). I used it and my headset came loose every couple of weeks. Changed to simple star nut - problem soved!

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

I'm not too sure what to make of the DZ39 display

It looks interesting.

 

[Mabman]

The big question for me is what connector does the square port use? The DC jack type that the round port uses are not really well rated for charging purposes especially not above 4A. There are several other options like Rosenberg connectors like Brose/Specialized use but there is no standard one of course because it's the bike industry.

As far as the round port on my E22 frame the little rubber flap is easy to not seat all the way and fall open while riding and washing......it does give me a bit of problem hooking it up to my Satiator sometimes but I spray a touch of Boeshield in there once in awhile and wiggle the plug around a bit and it takes off. My charger can charge up to 8A but don't with the DC jack type. I am getting a new battery for my gravel bike and requested an XLR connector because my charger has that as its main connector also and I run a pig tail out of it for the DC jack.

On another note battery wise I hit a new mileage record with my 15ah 52v battery of 34 miles the other day over two rides. One at a sporting pace with plenty of climbing and the other at a more leisurely pace with a friend on his push bike and dogs but still plenty of climbs including one up a powerline that I doubt I ever could have cleaned with a push bike ever. I know my buddy didn't...One of those you start kind of laughing at what you are doing events.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

I've just ordered a Kindernay VII IGH. It wasn't my first choice of IGH, but of my 3 short-listed IGH, it's the only one available immediately. It's also not Kindernays first time making an IGH which is a bit of a concern with the other 2 I was looking at.

I opted for the 36 hole swap cage. As I figure 36 spokes is got to be stronger than 32 right. I've also ordered a DT swiss 29" 36h HX531 rim. It's thier Ebike specific MTB rim. From my reading, it's basically more or less the same as thier welded enduro rim, but a little bit stronger around the spoke bed. I didn't get it because it's "ebike" specific. But because it's 36h. Most rims are 28 / 32 hole.

I also opted for 29" size aswell. I usually go with 27.5 for my rear tyres for bum clearance on big compressions. But I think it might be a good fit on the e22. I wouldn't mind just a little more BB hieght, which the 29" will offer. And with the e22 long chainstays, I find I don't buzz my but on the rear wheel so much. And any rolling bonus from 29" is also fine with me.

I guess if I absolutely hate the 29" rear, then I could order a 2nd swap cage and lace a 27.5 rim up.

Im waiting to hear back from Kindernay about thier swap shell measurements so i can order some spokes aswell. The kindernay website is very minimal, and doesn't have much information on it. Things like gear ratios aren't clearly listed on the IGH product page. And important information like hub shell sizing isn't readily available either. This is kind of critical info, and it's nowhere to be found. I did find some info in thier blog about the hub shell measurements. Eg : 100mm spoke hole diameter, and 28mm offset each side, and 2.6mm spoke hole diameter. But they mention they have staggered hole spacing. (Meaning the holes are kind of paired, with a short spacing between each pair, and a larger spacing to the next adjacent pair). But then they fail to give this critical measurement. Which makes calculating spokes very difficult.

Given that I went with the 36h option, I will probably go with a 3 cross pattern. But I will wait till I have all measurements available and then play around with the Grin Tech spoke calculator tool and decide. I do want to order spokes ASAP, so I'm not held up once my IGH hub arrives.

I went with the 22t sprocket for the hub, (and ordered a spare), as it's the largest they sell. But from my research, I think its just HG style splines, but short, so it only fits 1 gear, like a single speed. Which means there should be a pretty decent selection of single speed cogs available aftermarket, as HG is super common. I think they mention thier cogs can take 3/32" chains. But I might try and organise all 1/8" cogs/chains for better wear resistence if the rear cog is a common fit. Otherwise I will probably just end up wearing out the hub input sprocket every 100kms...

Gear ration are :
1: 0.484
2: 0.616
3: 0.785
4: 1.000
5: 1.274
6: 1.623
7: 2.068
Total range: 428%.
(Finding that info on thier website was not easy)

Looking at that, and quick guess and I would probably want to have atleast a 2:1 ratio between crank and hub. Maybe even a little bit bigger than 2:1. So im guessing somewhere around 46-48t size for a chainring.

Doubling the chainring to rear cog size will also halve the hub input torque. Which is good, as Kindernay rate the hub at 160nm, and Bafang also rate the ultra at 160nm. So without any gearing into the hub, Its right on the limit. If run over 2:1 then it should be all sweet, even at max motor output, and max leg output. Just looking at it. I think the rear cog, (or possibly the splines between rear cog and hub, if they are HG) are going to be the week link. But I guess time will tell.

I also chose the onezy shifter setup. As that's kind of traditional. The twozy just seams a bit weird.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

I did also pull down the worn box prime #2 9spd cassette. I didn't end up fitting the box prime #3, as the cassette is a different design.

The #2 has an alloy flange that connects all 4 of the lowest gears together, and distributes thier load. But the #3 has each gear independantly keyed to the freehub splines. And I know from experience, doing that on a shimano HG splined freehub is a completely shit way of doing it. These gears will just destroy the freehub and chew the splines up in no time.

My freehub has some minor gouging already from the 4 or 5 highest gears, after just 100 odd km. (The freehub was brand new before I fitted the box prime 9spd) I actually had to pry the old cassette off the splines, because of the damage they had done. The section that had the alloy boos for the 4 lowest gears has absolutely no wear at all. Because it distributes the load over a much larger area.

So using the box prime #3 would only make this so much worse, as each gear is separate, and very thin.

I also compared the chain with a brand new box prime chain, and there was basically no wear in the chain that I could measure. Maybe 1-2mm over the entire 126 links. Which is bugger all. So that is good.

 

[CaptainBobt]

I am still looking at this frame - to those running an 18" sized frame - what is your inseam and can you stand comfortably over the top tube? If yes, what is your wheel diameter?

@Daxxie didn't you build an 18" frame?

Thanks!

31 inseam. I'm 5' 11" . 29er all around . The 18 fits me perfect clear the top tube easily . It's long bike keep in mind and the top tube slopes nicely toward the seat post .

 

[El Topo]

31 inseam. I'm 5' 11" . 29er all around . The 18 fits me perfect clear the top tube easily . It's long bike keep in mind and the top tube slopes nicely toward the seat post .

Perfect, thank you! You got exactly my inseam, so should be good. What kind of 29er do you run? 2.6", or 2.8"? I am asking because I want to run fat tires that are a bit taller (around 760-780mm diameter), which obviously also lifts the whole frame a bit.

 

[CaptainBobt]

Perfect, thank you! You got exactly my inseam, so should be good. What kind of 29er do you run? 2.6", or 2.8"? I am asking because I want to run fat tires that are a bit taller (around 760-780mm diameter), which obviously also lifts the whole frame a bit.

Obviously depends on your fork, But I run a 2.6 up front and 2.25 in the back the specs say no bigger than 2.4 for 29s so that's why I went with the skinny in the back. but I believe others run 2.8 and even 3 inch there's alot of room for wider tires for the back for sure even with 29s . I think Bram runs a wide tire in the back but he muleted his bike with a 26 rear .

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Obviously depends on your fork, But I run a 2.6 up front and 2.25 in the back the specs say no bigger than 2.4 for 29s so that's why I went with the skinny in the back. but I believe others run 2.8 and even 3 inch there's alot of room for wider tires for the back for sure even with 29s . I think Bram runs a wide tire in the back but he muleted his bike with a 26 rear .

Nah. I don't like much bigger than about 2.5" wide yres. There is no benefit in grip on the type of terrain in my area. Infact, I actually think it might reduce grip on same for same tyre, compound, tread etc. It probs adds grip in very soft terrain, which i don't have much of in my area. But the down side is a slower rolling ride, and also a more skirmy feel when hooking.

My current rear tyre is 27.5 x 2.5 or maybe 2.6 (I can't remember off top of my head) maxxis exo+ assegai, 3c max grip i think. But that's just an old one I had lying around.

My new setup is going to have a 2.4" maxxis dissector, exo, 3c Max terra. Which is same as my front tyre.

My manual mtb runs 27.5 maxxis dissector/aggressor combo aswell

Im really liking the maxxis dissectors and aggressors. And I prefer somewhere around 2.4 2.4, 2.5 width. 2.6 and 2.8 are too big IMHO.

 

[Cigales]

Hi,
I've finally received the frame.
But it did not come with the battery docking and locking mechanism nor did come with the charging connector.
I've contacted Dengfu (Mia) and they say this is normal because I did not order the battery from them.

Is this normal? I did order the frame only with no battery, so I guess this is what happens when you do so. But still seem kinda stupid. Not to mention I asked them several times what accessories and parts would be included and all they said was headset and thruaxle. To be fair, they did change correspondant mid conversation. (Melody was replaced by Mia).

Anyone know where I can find this elsewhere?

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Hi,
I've finally received the frame.
But it did not come with the battery docking and locking mechanism nor did come with the charging connector.
I've contacted Dengfu (Mia) and they say this is normal because I did not order the battery from them.

Is this normal? I did order the frame only with no battery, so I guess this is what happens when you do so. But still seem kinda stupid. Not to mention I asked them several times what accessories and parts would be included and all they said was headset and thruaxle. To be fair, they did change correspondant mid conversation. (Melody was replaced by Mia).

Anyone know where I can find this elsewhere?

I know Melody made mention of this when I ordered my frame. I bought the battery and motor from dengfu all at same time, so that wasn't an issue for me.

But a similar thing happened with the shock mounting hardware. I ordered the complete frame, headset, thru axle, and even ordered extra derailer hangers. When the frame arrived, I noticed there was no shock hardware. I contacted Melody, and that is when she mentioned it's separate. Facepalm!!! Perhaps they could mention this to the customer, and enquire if they will also require the shock hardware?

You could try DingTai Battery, or try Green Bike Kit. They both sell the batteries, and may also be able to source the mounting hardware.

 

[Cigales]

I know Melody made mention of this when I ordered my frame. I bought the battery and motor from dengfu all at same time, so that wasn't an issue for me.

But a similar thing happened with the shock mounting hardware. I ordered the complete frame, headset, thru axle, and even ordered extra derailer hangers. When the frame arrived, I noticed there was no shock hardware. I contacted Melody, and that is when she mentioned it's separate. Facepalm!!! Perhaps they could mention this to the customer, and enquire if they will also require the shock hardware?

You could try DingTai Battery, or try Green Bike Kit. They both sell the batteries, and may also be able to source the mounting hardware.

Yeah they really suck at customer service. I guess that is what you get when ordering "cheap" stuff from China. I tried my best to ease the conversation so that I could get as much information as possible. It's just not simple when you've never ordered a frame only before, you need to know these details.
Luckly I did receive the rear shock mounting screws, all I need now is the bushings.

I've contacted Herbert from DingTai Battery, i'm waiting for an response. Good idea to contact GreenBikeKit, I shall try them right now.

Fyi, It seems I also have the screws for the battery mounting brackets which excellent.


-- -- --
EDIT:
Anna from GreenBikeKit responded very quickly and told me she may have them and will check tomorrow.
She also provided me with a picture

 

[Mabman]

OK, I tried to search for this info but can't quite come up with a conclusion. I want to get a coil shock for my E22 and don't want to fart around doing so as in more like plug and play. What shock size am I looking for? Thanks in advance.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

OK, I tried to search for this info but can't quite come up with a conclusion. I want to get a coil shock for my E22 and don't want to fart around doing so as in more like plug and play. What shock size am I looking for? Thanks in advance.

230x60 or 230x65, if you use 1 offset bush in the yoke and pin it.

Spring size will depend on which shock you get. Simple option is to get same brand spring as the shock. If you mix n match, then you may need adapter spring seats, as there is some variation in diameters etc. I think fox, marzochhi, and cane creek all match. Rockshox, and most others also all match each other. But do your own research.

Spring strength will depend on your weight, I have a 500 pound progressive and I'm a touch over 100kg.

There are calculators that will get you in the ball park. But be prepared to buy multiple springs before you get the perfect match. There does seam to be some variation in spring strength between brands.

 

[twistgripper]

Has anyone confirmed (actually measured) all the posted geometry info on size large or med frame for the E22? I'm trying to choose between med and large and I'd hate to make a mistake based on bad info. I'm 5'10 (178 cm), 32 inch inseam. Most bikes size large is ideal for me, but if reach is long i get numb hands something fierce. I just had to change my 2018 Devinci AC bars to 60mm rise and that helped a fair bit. I really prefer large over medium usually for the extra stability descending, but geo keeps evolving to longer, slacker frames so not sure if that really matters so much anymore. but the e22 posted reach for large is 470, but neeko measured 496mm?? my current bike's reach is 465-470 (2 position adj geo) and that is really the max i want to go. any other riders 5'10 want to chime in?
also that crazy long chainstay length of 484 is really a bit odd too. Also Luna has slightly different geo numbers posted for the Z1.
I wonder if the also slacker than norm seat tube angle of 72.5 will also effectively increase reach when seated - placing more weight on the hands.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Has anyone confirmed (actually measured) all the posted geometry info on size large or med frame for the E22? I'm trying to choose between med and large and I'd hate to make a mistake based on bad info. I'm 5'10 (178 cm), 32 inch inseam. Most bikes size large is ideal for me, but if reach is long i get numb hands something fierce. I just had to change my 2018 Devinci AC bars to 60mm rise and that helped a fair bit. I really prefer large over medium usually for the extra stability descending, but geo keeps evolving to longer, slacker frames so not sure if that really matters so much anymore. but the e22 posted reach for large is 470, but neeko measured 496mm?? my current bike's reach is 465-470 (2 position adj geo) and that is really the max i want to go. any other riders 5'10 want to chime in?
also that crazy long chainstay length of 484 is really a bit odd too. Also Luna has slightly different geo numbers posted for the Z1.
I wonder if the also slacker than norm seat tube angle of 72.5 will also effectively increase reach when seated - placing more weight on the hands.

I haven't measured, but I dont feel that the e22 reach is that long. The bike itself is long (long wheelbase) due to those long chainstays, and you can feel it. But I dont feel the reach is too long.

I am of the opinion that if you are in between 2 sizes, you are better to go the larger option, rather than the smaller option. But everyone is different, and has different opinions on sizing. It's easier to adjust seat posistion, cockpit, bars, stem, crank length etc to fit into a larger frame, than it is to adjust those things to fit into a smaller frame.

In my opinion, reach and stack aren't the best way to size a bike anyways. Amount of sag, Changing forks and tyre sizes, mullets, the angle of the ground your riding over, all these things throw those number around, depending on the angle of the frame. I think a better metric is to measure/calculate the diagonal between the reach and stack. This number will always be the same no matter what angle the frame is at. And you might be better to compare this to your existing bike and see how it looks.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Also. With the posted e22 sizes. There is an obvious error in atleast one of the measurements. I believe the FC measurement is wrong. It's the same for all 3 frame sizes. Even though wheel base, reach etc all change. So obvious typo.

I guess there could be other errors too