Cheeb issues :-(

[Puschtrale]

If the ignition circuit (battery on/off switch) is cycling on and off due to the usual water ingress, it could be oscillating fast enough between 0 and 54 and the voltage detection circuit wouldn't follow it fast enough to see either 54 or 0v, but it might show something in between. You could link out the switch circuit inside the battery to test this theory. I just hope you've not bricked the controller comms like I seem to have done with my two motors (m600 and m510).

edit: I don't mean the actual external switch though, it's water getting in behind the pogo pins in the battery dock that is incredibly difficult to stop or get rid of.

So you mean the part underneath the battery where 3 cables come out of some white rubbish like in this pic at the bottom? And do you know if the voltage shown in the Besst Tool would then be too less to bring the display back on and that this might be the problem?

 

[Hagbard]

To me that would suggest an issue with the connection between the motor and the display, as that's the cable that you remove to plug the BESST tool in. Pull it out, give it a blow at both the cable end and the display end, and a squirt of contact cleaner if you have some, and then give it a nice firm push in.

Then cross your fingers, say a prayer to the gods, do a little dance and press that button.

 

[captainhightop]

Regarding the suggestion by @Hagbard , if you've got a spare E-Bus cable (from motor to HMI), you could check the cable. My issue which killed two controllers hasn't been diagnosed yet, but BESST could talk to display and motor individually or both together, but the motor and the display couldn't talk to each other. You could cause lights on the controller (in the motor) to come on when I disassembled the M600 and run a calibration which moved the motor, but still not comms to the display.

I could also fake commands to the HMI from a CANBUS adaptor and the software that came with it, to do stuff like change what the battery voltage displayed or what mode it was it. In my case, I think that narrows it down to something on the controller, but the controller did show data from the speed sensor and voltages etc (on the BESST software) and some stuff visible on the CANBUS dongle.

The display that I had that failed on the M510 also some how screwed up the M600 controller (which was verified to work with the same cables and different HMI and with which I had before the incident tried with the "infected" display!) I am not sure what that failure mode suggests other than something screwy in the controller caused by something that broke in the original HMI. I also swapped every cable out too which doesn't fix the problem, so I've been referred to Bafang support by the seller on Alibaba (which I guess is standard operating procedure).

But in your case I hope it's just the cable or the stupid battery ignition circuit.

Fortunately my new motor arrived today so I've the slow process of getting Bafang to diagnose the broken ones, I may keep them as spares or just sell them when they're fixed, not sure yet!

 

[captainhightop]

The two smaller red wires were connected to the gold POGO pins, cut each wire and then take the ends from the BMS and tie them together (solder and heatshrink). The battery will be always ON, but will not suffer as much with water making the switch useless.

There are 4 screws on the outer case on the dock end of the battery, unscrew them and then you should be able to carefully pull away the plastic body with the high current connectors.

 

[Puschtrale]

The two smaller red wires were connected to the gold POGO pins, cut each wire and then take the ends from the BMS and tie them together (solder and heatshrink). The battery will be always ON, but will not suffer as much with water making the switch useless.

There are 4 screws on the outer case on the dock end of the battery, unscrew them and then you should be able to carefully pull away the plastic body with the high current connectors.
View attachment 88962

This has to be done inside the battery right? Or do you mean the part underneath the battery itself.

 

[captainhightop]

This has to be done inside the battery right? Or do you mean the part underneath the battery itself.

In the battery itself

 

[Puschtrale]

In the battery itself

But i do not think that my problem is the on/off switch - if that one should be faulty i should not be able to use it switching on the battery when connecting the bike to the Besst Tool and trying to read the data of the controller: this only works if the battery is ON. Therefore i doubt it has to do somwthing with that switch and cable and the solution with cutting the red cables inside the battery and connect them.directly wont help me, or am i wrong?

 

[captainhightop]

But i do not think that my problem is the on/off switch - if that one should be faulty i should not be able to use it switching on the battery when connecting the bike to the Besst Tool and trying to read the data of the controller: this only works if the battery is ON. Therefore i doubt it has to do somwthing with that switch and cable and the solution with cutting the red cables inside the battery and connect them.directly wont help me, or am i wrong?

Hmm, yeah it should affect usage with the BESST tool too so you are probably right. Nevertheless for me it's still worth doing if you ride in wet conditions. Not had an issue in 1800 miles with water on that part of the bike. The M600 motor itself however did get some water inside it (or a lot of condensation). That did actually stop it turning on reliably as the board near the connectors on the motor had corrosion on it. I was lucky with that and it cleaned up and started behaving until I plugged in that duff M510 controller :-(

I suppose it depends if you want to take it apart and have a look or ask Bafang for help. I'm not sure where we stand on failures due to water ingress. In the BBSHD days I got a few controller replacements for nothing from the resellers but given the lack of any available spares I'm not sure they'll even have any to do that and my experience so far has been they just refer you to Bafang directly.

 

[Puschtrale]

Hmm, yeah it should affect usage with the BESST tool too so you are probably right. Nevertheless for me it's still worth doing if you ride in wet conditions. Not had an issue in 1800 miles with water on that part of the bike. The M600 motor itself however did get some water inside it (or a lot of condensation). That did actually stop it turning on reliably as the board near the connectors on the motor had corrosion on it. I was lucky with that and it cleaned up and started behaving until I plugged in that duff M510 controller :-(

I suppose it depends if you want to take it apart and have a look or ask Bafang for help. I'm not sure where we stand on failures due to water ingress. In the BBSHD days I got a few controller replacements for nothing from the resellers but given the lack of any available spares I'm not sure they'll even have any to do that and my experience so far has been they just refer you to Bafang directly.

Well i will once more try to dry all parts ans every cable i found on my bike. It ia ao pitty if you dont know where thr problem might be. I have no idea where my problem might be

 

[BootsDave]

Will it switch on when it’s on charge?

 

[Puschtrale]

Will it switch on when it’s on charge?

Hm, never ttied that. Now all parts are removed from the bike but still nothing changed. Will put the parts again together and try to switch it on when its charging.

 

[RoyRoy]

Hi All,

I've had my Cheeb for a few months now and loving it. However, I've got an issue that is driving me mad!
Over time, the M600 motor has developed a really annoying 'slipping' issue. If I stop pedaling, whether from stopping or coasting, when I begin to pedal, the cranks do not immediately engage and they rotate 180 (sometimes 360) before engaging the chainring to drive the rear wheel. It's rather dangerous because it has caught me out a few times when I need to apply pedal power and it simply slips making my legs exert force with no resistance - it also makes me look like a bit of a tool. I've opened the motor and had a good look around. Everything appears to be in perfect shape. No wear to the gearing, nothing wrong with the electrics from what I can see. I regreased everything and put it all back together and for a couple of rides, it was perfect. However, it has now begun to 'slip' again. I'm not sure what to do. It's almost like there is a clutch that isn't working correctly. I know they don't have clutches but there is definitely something going on that's not allowing the pedals to drive the chainring. It's very intermittent too. It can slip when hardly any pressure is applied to the pedals or it can happen when a lot of pressure is applied - it makes no difference. The bike is a lot of fun but this issue is tarnishing it somewhat. Any suggestions would be appreciated! Many thanks

I am also experiencing this issue. I have done stuff all KMs on the motor, maybe 350kms total.

Went for a ride the other day, 2 different uphill segments bam, initially thought it was the chain, absolutely stopped me. I am not keen to go pulling the motor apart i did purchase from Volition. I will contact them first as maybe it would void warranty.

 

[CaptainBobt]

Waiting on my frame to come, (Motor and electrics have arrived) so I wondering if 'electrical sealant silastic silicone' applied over the electrical connections from new might seal everything watertight. Would be a pain to remove if I ever had to, but I can't imagine having to pull connections apart very often. might last longer than a layer of grease. Thoughts?

Liquid tape, Bob's your uncle.

Gardner Bender 07315001126 LTB-400 Liquid Electrical Tape, Easy-on, Waterproof, Indoor/Outdoor Use, 4 Oz. Jar, Black, Bottle https://a.co/d/iRuJZFG

 

[Dean R]

I am also experiencing this issue. I have done stuff all KMs on the motor, maybe 350kms total.

Went for a ride the other day, 2 different uphill segments bam, initially thought it was the chain, absolutely stopped me. I am not keen to go pulling the motor apart i did purchase from Volition. I will contact them first as maybe it would void warranty.

Its the one way clutch needle roller bearing inside the motor. Have had an issue with mine.
you will need a new part from bafang as no other manufacturer akes one to these dimensions to my knowledge.
its a lengthy process I had to get mine through DENGFU where the package came from.
It took 3 months to arrive and was the the wrong part so took another 3 months before I received the correct part!!!!! You get the whole unit in the second photo.
Or if your lucky i’m not my mate received a complete motor. But his failed from new, mine was nine months old.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Its the one way clutch needle roller bearing inside the motor.

We found a similar problem with the TSDZ2 engines, if you can pry the seal back and inspect for over packing of the grease or water contamination of the grease, these are the usual problems. As yours is relatively new I would put a bet of a pint its simply got too much grease in the bearing.

 

[Dean R]

We found a similar problem with the TSDZ2 engines, if you can pry the seal back and inspect for over packing of the grease or water contamination of the grease, these are the usual problems. As yours is relatively new I would put a bet of a pint its simply got too much grease in the bearing.

Mine didn’t slip a mates did.
mine got water in and seized up so could not pedal backwards, it turned the moto.
what do you recommend as a lubricant and how much as I cannot find any info on them except remote control cars and they say a little like mobile1 0/30

 

[markusks]

In case you do not know. IT is a good idea to apply soweit battery Pole grease to all electrical connections to perfekt corrusion and water Intrusion.

 

[westyB]

After the dry summer, I ran into problems after my 1st wet run with the Cheeb.

Water is ingressing through the battery cover and causing all kinds of weird behaviour, so decided to come up with a more permanent solution.

Got some sheet of roof foil which I fixed underneath the battery connector, screws are holding it in place.
The foil is wrapped around the battery and kept in place with a piece of tape, this way I can still remove the battery.

On the pictures you can see the results after cleaning the bike, water is now NOT getting to the connectors.

I do not remove the battery after my rides, nor do I have a on/off switch. Battery is keeping the load (100%) when not used, even after multiple days.

 

[CaptainBobt]

Just my opinion but wrapping the battery in conductive material could be an issue . I would Don some thick rubber gloves and get that out of there ..

 

[westyB]

Just my opinion but wrapping the battery in conductive material could be an issue . I would Don some thick rubber gloves and get that out of there ..

Foil is not conductive of course, water on the battery pins is, and causing ticking noise, battery voltage flips,...

 

[CaptainBobt]

Oh okay could be the definition. Not sure what you refer to as foil where you live . but here is the USA it's made from aluminum or other tinned metal and certainly conductive and if you mix water and potentially exposed or non sealed battery contacts it's a fire or worse .

 

[TeoElFeo]

I have a mechanical issue with my m510 motor. Perhaps somebody has encountered something similar or has enough knowledge to make a good guess.

It started with the motor producing some grinding sound when you just start pedal and then you would here something click in to its place and the motor went working normally. With time it's gotten progressively worse.

And today it got even worse as it doesn't grind anymore but instead the motor just whines(see link with video) in vain on high revs and no assistance is being applied. The cranks do turn normally with the chainring though. The motor is now just stuck in that state..

Initially my main assumption was that it's the problem inside the one way bearing in the crankshaft gear. I have changed it to an identical from my old m500 but this didn't resolve the issue. In fact the motor is now broken with the replacement gear. I am now having doubts about my first assumption. if the clutch bearing would slide around the crankshaft without engaging that would also mean that it wouldn't engage when I am pushing on the cranks. In other words the cranks would turn without turning the chainring(it's attached to the main gear)
Video where you can listen to the noise :

However there's no engagement issue there. So maybe the problem lies else where? Any ideas will be appreciated.

 

[TeoElFeo]

Update and resolution:
Patdam suggested me in DM that the motor should have 2 one-way bearings And this helped me to understand the problem. In fact the main gear sprag bearing is fine and is not the cause(photo1). The culprit was the second sprag bearing located in the middle cog(photo2). If you look closely you will see the sprag bearing in the middle.

In fact I wasn't aware that it existed until I've opened the motor again today and started looking for it...
I have then replaced it using a spare part from my m500.

So the good news is that all 3 gears if m500 and 510 are identical. Hope this might be useful to someone one day.