Bafang M560

[dvng]

I would, yeah, they seemed to sound pretty terrible from a lot of the videos I saw.

i have been using the first gen for almost 15months and its not a deal breaker. Its still a capable motor and plenty of torque. I use it for offroad singletrack riding and it’s wonderful. The video with the noise from the motor has the mic placement near the motor is not realistic. The noise gets softer with age.

 

[Dado]

Thats right, action cam is close to a motor. It is not that bad with ears and new motor does not take peoples attention on the street.

 

[John_A]

I would, yeah, they seemed to sound pretty terrible from a lot of the videos I saw.

Here's the bottom of the motor in question

 

[xtraman122]

Here's the bottom of the motor in question

View attachment 146934

Interestingly, my 750 updated version doesn't have any such etching on the case itself, maybe that's one way you can tell old vs new. I only have the sticker. When I opened mine up there appeared to be a manufacture date stamped into one of the gears as well, but I'm not sure of a definitive way to tell from the outside. The fact that you have etching with that info where mine has none tells me that might be one of the identifying pieces. Would be good to see a known updated 500w version to confirm.

 

[Dado]

With laser engraved label it will be old M560. Now they putting only sticker.
Also 750W version is reading as 500W hardware.

 

[LAnton]

I couldn't write the new 750W firmware to the old 500W motor.

 

[Dado]

Could be. Also have old motor, which has different boot code. Usa version of motor. So just edited bootcode to take firmware v1.5

Now seems to me there is no different bootcodes with new M560.

 

[_gregor]

New firmware for m560 750W dated: 2024-03-12.

 

[LAnton]

I am more concerned about the question of why, at 300W of power, the M560 motor consumes 30% more energy than the M820 at the same 300W of power. Maybe it's the settings?

 

[Dado]

I am more concerned about the question of why, at 300W of power, the M560 motor consumes 30% more energy than the M820 at the same 300W of power. Maybe it's the settings?

How you found out? Should not be such high difference.

Could depends on rpms it is running (efficiency). Did you run at optimal caddence? Lot of people is riding with low caddence, then part of energy going to heat.

I do not see any major difference in consumption of M560. I am comparing with M620 and Innotrance, ride with same average power, same batteries, similar range.

 

[LAnton]

How you found out? Should not be such high difference.

Could depends on rpms it is running (efficiency). Did you run at optimal caddence? Lot of people is riding with low caddence, then part of energy going to heat.

I do not see any major difference in consumption of M560. I am comparing with M620 and Innotrance, ride with same average power, same batteries, similar range.

I drove the same route on the M820 and M560. That was last year. I'm going to try to tune up the engines of the car and repeat the trip.

 

[xtraman122]

I drove the same route on the M820 and M560. That was last year. I'm going to try to tune up the engines of the car and repeat the trip.

How were you calculating the amount of energy it used? I wouldn’t trust the percentages of battery level from the display if that’s how.

 

[LAnton]

How were you calculating the amount of energy it used? I wouldn’t trust the percentages of battery level from the display if that’s how.

I will do a more accurate check this year. I have installed bluetooth bms on all my batteries

 

[LAnton]

New firmware for m560 750W dated: 2024-03-12.I was able to pour this firmware into the 500W version of the motor. I'm going for a bike ride this weekend

 

[Dado]

I will do a more accurate check this year. I have installed bluetooth bms on all my batteries

So accurate energy consumption from BMS.
Try to set similar max power on M560 to M820.
Try same trail and get similar time. You can post then. We can calculate Wh per km.

 

[LAnton]

So accurate energy consumption from BMS.
Try to set similar max power on M560 to M820.
Try same trail and get similar time. You can post then. We can calculate Wh per km.

Ride on the M820 43V and M560 (500W) 48V motor. The battery is 48V 5A. Both motors are set to 5 acceleration. M820 40% - 250W. M560 - 25% - 250W. The route is the same. The speed is about the same too. The battery on the M820 is discharged to 39V, the firmware is 43V. The battery on the M560 motor is discharged to 42V, the firmware is 48V

 

[Dado]

Hello

Hmmm, thats quite a big difference 39 vs 42V left. Efficiency of M820, or this motor is running in higher rpms, where more loss. I can check in charts what is the difference in capacity taken, is it 5Ah battery? But that looks to me too low for 30km and 720m vertical.

Also dont getting that pictures, one has 30km, another 18.6km.

 

[LAnton]

Hello

Hmmm, thats quite a big difference 39 vs 42V left. Efficiency of M820, or this motor is running in higher rpms, where more loss. I can check in charts what is the difference in capacity taken, is it 5Ah battery? But that looks to me too low for 30km and 720m vertical.

Also dont getting that pictures, one has 30km, another 18.6km.

The test was carried out on a 5A 48V battery. The average speed in the ascents was 8km h. If I could discharge the battery on the M560 to 39V. I think I would have driven 20km. But it's still a big difference.

 

[xtraman122]

How are you rating the wattage used, just based on the motor setting/profile? I bet the M560 being so much more powerful inadvertently draws more power in bursts or something. When it has the capability to draw a lot more I would imagine you use it without even noticing during acceleration, I really doubt the efficiency of the motors themselves is off by any more than 1-2% if they were hooked up to a dyno.

 

[LAnton]

How are you rating the wattage used, just based on the motor setting/profile? I bet the M560 being so much more powerful inadvertently draws more power in bursts or something. When it has the capability to draw a lot more I would imagine you use it without even noticing during acceleration, I really doubt the efficiency of the motors themselves is off by any more than 1-2% if they were hooked up to a dyno.

This is a subjective test for the same power and acceleration.

 

[Dado]

I got it now ... you went till battery died.
Indeed here is something not OK, it is too much difference.

Quick calc from your numbers and for 250W max:
10.84 Wh / km - M560
7.38 Wh / km - M820
+46% consumption

I have good measurement against M620 Innotrance (VESC controller, so lets assume has better efficiency as Bafang controllers). Same track, same power (1150W average), same time and in a finish with cca same battery left (9%). So dont see any big difference in battery consumption here. Had same range also with M600. Can not tell for M820.

As xtraman said, I would expect much less (up to 10% difference).
Xtramen, when is set 25% current (so 250W for M560 500W), controller is not going over this power, even under acceleration and heavy pedalling.

 

[LAnton]

I got it now ... you went till battery died.
Indeed here is something not OK, it is too much difference.

Quick calc from your numbers and for 250W max:
10.84 Wh / km - M560
7.38 Wh / km - M820
+46% consumption

I have good measurement against M620 Innotrance (VESC controller, so lets assume has better efficiency as Bafang controllers). Same track, same power (1150W average), same time and in a finish with cca same battery left (9%). So dont see any big difference in battery consumption here. Had same range also with M600. Can not tell for M820.

As xtraman said, I would expect much less (up to 10% difference).
Xtramen, when is set 25% current (so 250W for M560 500W), controller is not going over this power, even under acceleration and heavy pedalling.

Maybe the first version of the M560 motor has increased consumption.

 

[_gregor]

Maybe the first version of the M560 motor has increased consumption.

I have the February (no sticker) and July (new sticker) versions of m560 750W and I have already tested it on joint trips. The battery consumption with identical engine settings is the same on both. The July version is audibly quieter.