Bafang M560

[xtraman122]

Hello Azure.
Yes, it is very first version of M560. Will record video of latest one soon. Then you can compare.

Dont understand why Bafang dont wanna put nylon into 500W version. In M600 it holds for me with no problem, and I was still pushing it on full power, even on 43V firmware with 48V battery, so it was something like 1150W peak.

I believe Luna was even using the plastic gear in their crazy over powered Ludicrous tuned X2.5 weren't they?

 

[Dado]

Thats right. But here it was snapping nylon gear quite a lot.

And what is funny, in the Bafang factory tour video they showing an accoustic test room. Just looks like all the employee there are completely deaf and also the microphones in that silence room are all broken.

 

[xtraman122]

Thats right. But here it was snapping nylon gear quite a lot.

And what is funny, in the Bafang factory tour video they showing an accoustic test room. Just looks like all the employee there are completely deaf and also the microphones in that silence room are all broken.

I thought the exact same thing after watching that video recently - how in the world did the M560 ever make it into the wild if they actually do all that sound testing. They might as well throw all that stuff away because you can use common sense to know when a motor is ungodly loud lol.

 

[Dado]

And what about underwater test. In a week or two motor would starts to have power on/of issues after such a submerge.

It is beta version of M560 though. On action cam it may sound louder. Also microphone is closer to motor.
And there is a new grease inside motor...

 

[xtraman122]

I got one of the new updated 750W versions that I've been dying to try, but my frame keeps getting delayed so all I can do is run it on the bench. Based on what I've seen from updated motors though I'm not too worried about it, they seem somewhat comparable to many of the other motors out there.

 

[PitcairN]

Hello Azure.
Yes, it is very first version of M560. Will record video of latest one soon. Then you can compare.

Dont understand why Bafang dont wanna put nylon into 500W version. In M600 it holds for me with no problem, and I was still pushing it on full power, even on 43V firmware with 48V battery, so it was something like 1150W peak.

That's ridiculously loud lol. I guess Bafang's accoustics room was malfunctioned during m560 development

 

[Dado]

New version is much less louder. It is not taking so much attention of near people at least.

Here is a comparison video. Hope people can decide now. I am satisfied, staying with this motor, it is lot of fun.
Check also Description in a video.

 

[maddchadd]

Question for you all, building up an hpc trailblazer with the m560/52v battery and wondering if I can use a 48v battery with it also and have it not cutoff early? Is there a way to switch between 48v and 52v with the DP C245.CAN display? Or maybe with the Bafang app?

 

[xtraman122]

Question for you all, building up an hpc trailblazer with the m560/52v battery and wondering if I can use a 48v battery with it also and have it not cutoff early? Is there a way to switch between 48v and 52v with the DP C245.CAN display? Or maybe with the Bafang app?

There’s no way to switch in the app or display that I know of. With CAN I’m pretty sure all the voltage stuff isn’t meant to be changed easily, I think it’s hard coded in the firmware. The easiest might be with Dado’s K1 box but I’ll let him comment as to whether that’s even possible.

 

[xtraman122]

New version is much less louder. It is not taking so much attention of near people at least.

Here is a comparison video. Hope people can decide now. I am satisfied, staying with this motor, it is lot of fun.
Check also Description in a video.

Definitely an improvement, and I know what you mean about the amplification by the recording. I was going to do a video of my M560 on the bench and I couldn’t believe how much louder the video made it sound compared to hearing it live in person.

The sound in the first one definitely sounds like an incorrect/over tight beer mesh, it just sounds like bad metal on metal contact. They probably made a very slight change to the gear design or moved their placing ever so slightly in the casing to improve the mesh. Of course the bit change will be if anyone makes a plastic gear for it. If it does gain popularity as “the new M600” I suspect someone will, despite the sound I expect this to become one of their most popular motors very soon.

 

[maddchadd]

There’s no way to switch in the app or display that I know of. With CAN I’m pretty sure all the voltage stuff isn’t meant to be changed easily, I think it’s hard coded in the firmware. The easiest might be with Dado’s K1 box but I’ll let him comment as to whether that’s even possible.

Got it, so basically as it's setup up I COULD run it with the 48v but it would just cut out with like 35% still left on the battery right?

 

[xtraman122]

I don’t know for sure, it may depend if the battery has a BMS all wired up for CAN or is just sending power. Hopefully it would just work as you described, but I don’t know.

 

[Dado]

Got it, so basically as it's setup up I COULD run it with the 48v but it would just cut out with like 35% still left on the battery right?

Hello.

Not possible to switch voltages from a display. Depends what firmware voltage you flash into motor. M560 was till now only 48V, but recently show up 52V firmware with 22A.

Other solution how to run with 52V battery and 48V 25A firmware (then peaking over 1300W) is to use K1 BBR - it is tricking the motor. You will be able to discharge down to 3.0V per cell, remove power limitation at low SOC, also to set speed limits and some other functions. Check www.k1ebikes.com/bbr

Do you have battery with Bafang CAN bus?

 

[azure]

New version is much less louder. It is not taking so much attention of near people at least.

Here is a comparison video. Hope people can decide now. I am satisfied, staying with this motor, it is lot of fun.
Check also Description in a video.

this new batch motor sounds like M510 on high cadence (above 80)... it is not so loud as the older batches, but it is still loud.

 

[xtraman122]

this new batch motor sounds like M510 on high cadence (above 80)... it is not so loud as the older batches, but it is still loud.

I don’t think I’ve heard many M600s before they had the nylon gear, is it similar to that now? I suspect the only further reduction in noise will come from someone needing to produce a plastic gear for it. Metal on metal gears inside of a magnesium case pushing the kind of torque this motor is always going to be noisy I think, the plastic gear is probably the only thing left to reduce it further.

 

[maddchadd]

Hello.

Not possible to switch voltages from a display. Depends what firmware voltage you flash into motor. M560 was till now only 48V, but recently show up 52V firmware with 22A.

Other solution how to run with 52V battery and 48V 25A firmware (then peaking over 1300W) is to use K1 BBR - it is tricking the motor. You will be able to discharge down to 3.0V per cell, remove power limitation at low SOC, also to set speed limits and some other functions. Check www.k1ebikes.com/bbr

Do you have battery with Bafang CAN bus?

The HPC Trailblazer I ordered comes with the motor in 52v firmware and they say it's rated at 1800w max. They build their own batteries so I'm guessing they are using a 35a bms. Perhaps a custom firmware for the motor? If it's in 52v mode already would your tool help me be able to run a 48v battery? Not sure if either battery will have Bafang CAN bus, how would I determine that?

 

[xtraman122]

You would have to re-flash it with new firmware every time you switch, but it should be possible. Just wouldn’t be a fun process to have to constantly be switching.

 

[Goff]

Purchased the K1 flash drive, easier to use and this guy knows what he’s doing with firmware up grades.

K1 eBikes – Bafang Tuning and Services

www.k1ebikes.com

 

[Sayonara]

How have you guys been tightening the motors lockring? I find it impossible to hold everything still while trying to tighten the lockring to 35Nm. I have the proper tool for the lockring. That is not the problem. The problem is to hold the motor from spinning while tightening. Currently best way I have found is to push down on the pedal on the opposite site with my foot and bend over to the other side of the bike and trying to tighten the lockring with torque wrench. It does not work well to be honest.. the bike keeps moving, tyres moves a little, suspension moves, hard to keep the crank/pedal still while also trying to push it down to counter the force of tightening the lockring.

I tried it with chain whip tool but that worked worse than my other method.

Please explain in detail how you have been doing this!

 

[Waynemarlow]

How have you guys been tightening the motors lockring? I find it impossible to hold everything still while trying to tighten the lockring to 35Nm. I have the proper tool for the lockring. That is not the problem. The problem is to hold the motor from spinning while tightening. Currently best way I have found is to push down on the pedal on the opposite site with my foot and bend over to the other side of the bike and trying to tighten the lockring with torque wrench. It does not work well to be honest.. the bike keeps moving, tyres moves a little, suspension moves, hard to keep the crank/pedal still while also trying to push it down to counter the force of tightening the lockring.

I tried it with chain whip tool but that worked worse than my other method.

Please explain in detail how you have been doing this!

I've been using my 18V impact screwdriver, seems to have just enough impact to loosen enough on the lower settings ( check your specs of your driver as some can put out over 200nm of torque ). Bit crude but seems to be doing the job. You can buy the adaptors for the 3/8" or 1/2" socket drive at your local hardware store. Don't forget though its a left hand thread.

Tightening is a lot easier with chain on and bike on the ground to the correct torque.

 

[Sayonara]

I've been using my 18V impact screwdriver, seems to have just enough impact to loosen enough on the lower settings ( check your specs of your driver as some can put out over 200nm of torque ). Bit crude but seems to be doing the job. You can buy the adaptors for the 3/8" or 1/2" socket drive at your local hardware store. Don't forget though its a left hand thread.

Tightening is a lot easier with chain on and bike on the ground to the correct torque.
View attachment 144686

Maybe I didn't explain myself properly. When I turn to tighten the lockring it "bites" to the spider behind it and then the pedals and chainring (which then moves also the chain) moves backwards/counter clockwise. So you have to somehow hold one of those parts in place to prevent them from moving so you are able to tighten the lockring. If you don't then it just turns the motor axle and doesn't tighten but only turns around with it.

Loosening the lockring was no problem at all to me since you can just hold your rear brake to prevent the chain ring, chain and tyre from moving.

But to tighten the lockring it's not that easy since it spins the other way around. Can't just use rear brake because the chain and cassette moves freely. And if you lock the cassette the chain will pull your rear derailleur off rather than tightening.

And again. The problem is not the turning of the lockring itself but to lock the motor axle/spider/chainring/crank from free spinning. Can't tighten anything if it spins freely.

 

[Waynemarlow]

My 18V impact driver on its lowest setting is according to the manufacturer 35Nm. It does have the ability to go in either direction, just a thought.

 

[azure]

This 35Nm showed by impact driver is only general information. When we use it to unscrew bolt it doesnt matter... but to tighten up i sugestie to you dedicated dynamometric tool

 

[Waynemarlow]

Agree, but how hard do you want to make it for yourself.

Why not use a chain whip, if its slipping off, simply use two or 3 zip ties to lock the chain to the chain ring ?

 

[azure]

Do not the nut have on it information how many Nm it should be use? I dont remember...

 

[xtraman122]

Do not the nut have on it information how many Nm it should be use? I dont remember...

Yeah it says right on it, 35Nm, hence why he was quoting the matching number from his impact driver.

 

[Sayonara]

Okey I figured out why I wasn't able to get the torque wrench to click while tightening. My torque wrench is somehow broken when using it counter clockwise even though it is meant for that.

To other news.

Has anyone else noticed that when you get to lower battery % you are not able to get all the power out but it limits it? I feel like this happened when after I hit 10% battery left. Throttle isn't giving more power and even on boost mode pedal assist doesn't give normal amount of power out. Is this a me thing or does it do this with everyone?

 

[xtraman122]

Okey I figured out why I wasn't able to get the torque wrench to click while tightening. My torque wrench is somehow broken when using it counter clockwise even though it is meant for that.

To other news.

Has anyone else noticed that when you get to lower battery % you are not able to get all the power out but it limits it? I feel like this happened when after I hit 10% battery left. Throttle isn't giving more power and even on boost mode pedal assist doesn't give normal amount of power out. Is this a me thing or does it do this with everyone?

I think almost all bikes do that, it’s both a protection mechanism for the battery so it’s not drawing full current at a very low SOC and a warning do you that you need to get back ASAP because it’s about to die.

 

[Dado]

I did not want to do a bad reputation to M560 with my noise test videos, where not comparing to voice loudness. I do like this new motor a lot and became my favourite after 1 ride. Also like new shifting technique, which is possible with throttle and AXS. No hard shifts anymore or stop pedalling. I can upshift even in steep hills, with releasing throtle for half a second and wont loose momentum.

If you just pedalling the sound is acceptable (of course we can not compare with standard 250W motors). No more taking attention on the trails and people also dont recognize when I catch them (like with first version, they were turning head even 20m away).

And some subjective finding, after few hundred km it seems to me it is less noisier.
What I am really surprised, I do not hear any rattling!


Shame bafang did start to sell that first loud versions. I guess this motor will make its reputation and will become popular as M600.

 

[xtraman122]

Shame bafang did start to sell that first loud versions. I guess this motor will make its reputation and will become popular as M600.

I expect this to become their new most popular motor as well. Once more of the updated units get out there and word of mouth travels, I expect there to be a ton of bikes using it, and if there are, we’ll probably see someone come out with a PEEK gear anyway to make it even quieter. Just going to take some time for more of them to get out in the wild.