Bafang M560

[El Topo]

Would you know if these new revisions are coming anytime soon, or just somewhen in the future?

 

[Ken Chung]

The motor of M600 will stop immediately when the foot is stopped, but the motor of M560 will still move for 1~2 seconds after the foot is stopped. I think it is a bit dangerous.

After riding for a while, I have this problem for the time being.

 

[El Topo]

The motor of M600 will stop immediately when the foot is stopped, but the motor of M560 will still move for 1~2 seconds after the foot is stopped. I think it is a bit dangerous.

After riding for a while, I have this problem for the time being.

I suppose that could a be solved with a software update, but yeah, it sounds dangerous and is not acceptable IMO.
Why does Bafang keep messing up that stuff? They could have a much bigger market share, if they didn't have a dozen different motors, that all have their own issues...

On paper, the M560 is pretty much what I am looking for. Plenty power, light weight, and configurable enough with the Go+ app.

 

[Waynemarlow]

The motor of M600 will stop immediately when the foot is stopped, but the motor of M560 will still move for 1~2 seconds after the foot is stopped. I think it is a bit dangerous.

This is such an old argument that has been long discussed with its pros and cons. Its not just Bafang but Bosch and others all have some lag ( its almost impossible to prevent some inherent capacitance in the field windings and computer sensor delays ) often condoned by riders for climbing up hill rock gardens and steps for example.

Bafang is the only manufacturer who does have facility for a brake cut off, why do you not fit a simple magnetic sensor on the rear brake and leave the small delay for all of us who actually want that very very very slight over run ?

Out of curiosity have you tried back pedalling very slightly, on my M600 it kills almost immediately the very slight over run it has when in the higher power settings ?

 

[El Topo]

This is such an old argument that has been long discussed with its pros and cons. Its not just Bafang but Bosch and others all have some lag ( its almost impossible to prevent some inherent capacitance in the field windings and computer sensor delays ) often condoned by riders for climbing up hill rock gardens and steps for example.

Bafang is the only manufacturer who does have facility for a brake cut off, why do you not fit a simple magnetic sensor on the rear brake and leave the small delay for all of us who actually want that very very very slight over run ?

Out of curiosity have you tried back pedalling very slightly, on my M600 it kills almost immediately the very slight over run it has when in the higher power settings ?

Assuming it is software, then one should be able to tweak the time and curve of that over run IMO. Or program the throttle to behave like that.

Will the 750W version of the M560 have a controller with more amps? This post from @JimLee-Lightcarbon sounds like it won't be just software.

 

[Ken Chung]

This is such an old argument that has been long discussed with its pros and cons. Its not just Bafang but Bosch and others all have some lag ( its almost impossible to prevent some inherent capacitance in the field windings and computer sensor delays ) often condoned by riders for climbing up hill rock gardens and steps for example.

Bafang is the only manufacturer who does have facility for a brake cut off, why do you not fit a simple magnetic sensor on the rear brake and leave the small delay for all of us who actually want that very very very slight over run ?

Out of curiosity have you tried back pedalling very slightly, on my M600 it kills almost immediately the very slight over run it has when in the higher power settings ?

I used M600 before and didn't have this problem at all. When I stopped pedaling, the motor would stop immediately.

Or I will try your method today, thank you for your offer

 

[Ken Chung]

This is such an old argument that has been long discussed with its pros and cons. Its not just Bafang but Bosch and others all have some lag ( its almost impossible to prevent some inherent capacitance in the field windings and computer sensor delays ) often condoned by riders for climbing up hill rock gardens and steps for example.

Bafang is the only manufacturer who does have facility for a brake cut off, why do you not fit a simple magnetic sensor on the rear brake and leave the small delay for all of us who actually want that very very very slight over run ?

Out of curiosity have you tried back pedalling very slightly, on my M600 it kills almost immediately the very slight over run it has when in the higher power settings ?

I used your method and it was indeed effective, but it was difficult to adapt, haha

 

[El Topo]

For anyone interested, I got the info from Jason from Changzhou Victory that the production of the new revision of the M560 will start early next year.

 

[Tomblarom]

Difference between M560 500W and 750W is only firmware. In Boost it has a lot overshoot and can be dangerous, from what a few people reported. 750W peaks with about 1500W and can run with 52V battery without the need to charge it to only 58.5V.

In fact the first batch of M560, we can currently still get from dealers like Chili Shen, have controllers labeled as M510! The following pictures are from M560 500W.

MCU: GD32F303RCT6 (basically STM32 alternative/clone)
FETs: 12*CRSM033N08N4
Hall: MT6818

 

[El Topo]

Thanks for the report, so there is currently one one motor/board version, that is just equipped with different firmwares?

Can the 750W firmware be tuned with Go+ app to behave more like the 250/500W firmware in the lower support modes, or will it always feel a bit "overpowered"?

750W peaks with about 1500W and can run with 52V battery without the need to charge it to only 58.5V.

So the 500W version doesn't play nicely with a 14s battery? Or will this just mean, I will loose a few dozen Wh of max. charge at the top?

Hello. It is the same as other bafang CAN controllers. One difference - throttle speed is hardcoded.

Now working on a new device, which will remove power limitation for people who dont have original Bafang batt with CAN. And also should show good SOC % when u use one up voltage battery.

Is there a way to restrict/derestrict the M560's speed limit in the field to keep it "EU street legal", when needed, without the cops being able to easily detect it the unlocking? We have talked about this here a year ago, but I am wondering about the current state of things.
Do I have to set it in the firmware update and then have to update it again to change the speed limit? Meaning I can only do it at home.

How does the M560 behave, when run from a custom battery, without CANBUS data? Will the remaining battery life indicator be false, does it shut off prematurely, reducing the usable capacity of the battery by too much?

 

[El Topo]

For anyone interested, I got the info from Jason from Changzhou Victory that the production of the new revision of the M560 will start early next year.

Dengfu even goes as far as to not recommend buying the current M560. Here is a comparison between the M560 and the M600.

 

[Tomblarom]

Can the 750W firmware be tuned with Go+ app to behave more like the 250/500W firmware in the lower support modes, or will it always feel a bit "overpowered"?

From what I heard overshoot is still there and lead to injuries in one case. Also M560 is extremely loud. Just a few reasons why Bafang postponed the launch until early next year.

So the 500W version doesn't play nicely with a 14s battery? Or will this just mean, I will loose a few dozen Wh of max. charge at the top?

That's not what I said or meant. With M600 you were limited to 48v firmware and charge it to maximum 58.5V (=14S*4.178V) with 14S pack. Above that and it wouldn't turn on. With M560 the limit is not below 58.8V (=14S*4.2V).

Is there a way to restrict/derestrict the M560's speed limit in the field to keep it "EU street legal", when needed, without the cops being able to easily detect it the unlocking?

Nope not yet. Either use an EggRider und build something like I build for UART years ago. Bafang does not support this scenario: For them you either live in a country that does not care about speed limits or have regulations. Switching shall only be done by certified manufacturers (BESST accounts).

How does the M560 behave, when run from a custom battery, without CANBUS data? Will the remaining battery life indicator be false, does it shut off prematurely, reducing the usable capacity of the battery by too much?

Havn't tested that yet, but since it's the same controller as in M510, assume the same.

 

[Waynemarlow]

That's not what I said or meant. With M600 you were limited to 48v firmware and charge it to maximum 58.5V (=14S*4.178V) with 14S pack.

Are your sure of that, my M600 was happy with a full charge 58.8V ?

 

[Dado]

Hello El Topo.

Dont worry, you can use now one cell up battery. And to charge fully 14S. Some old firmwares M600 had this "restriction" it was giving overvoltage when 14S charged fully.

Is there a way to restrict/derestrict the M560's speed limit in the field to keep it "EU street legal", when needed, without the cops being able to easily detect it the unlocking? We have talked about this here a year ago, but I am wondering about the current state of things.

There is K1 BB3 for this. ASLS function - Auto Set Low Speed. After each motor power on low speed is set. And worked excelent.
And then Bafang came up with new controller FC2.0 and again a change. And ASLS stopped working. Issue is - you even will see new speed limit under information display, but this setting would take effect only after motor restart.

Do I have to set it in the firmware update and then have to update it again to change the speed limit? Meaning I can only do it at home.

You need to have it installed permanently on ebike and swap speeds by holding plus button. Or with new displays over "magic" combination.

How does the M560 behave, when run from a custom battery, without CANBUS data? Will the remaining battery life indicator be false, does it shut off prematurely, reducing the usable capacity of the battery by too much?

Very good question and u read my mind. Just working on this. New device which would trick battery.
It is tricky, as all firmwares behave differently, which makes me some wrinkles. M510 FC1.0 with CAN battery - motor is switching from SOC 10% to power limitation (otherwise cca from 25%). M510 FC2.0 has without CAN battery limitation from 25% and firmw 10.1 even does not limiting with CAN batt, only after motor power off/on with battery under 25% - strange, would say some bug.


K1 BBR - Black Box Racing

- Low voltage cut-off can be set. With 3V per cell you can get 10% to 15% more capacity.
- You can avoid power limitation by cheating SOC %. Will freeze at 26% and then will jump just to 1% when battery empty.
- You can have battery Voltage on your display - without decimals though.
- Some info under Battery Info: Voltage, Motor temperature, Controller temperature, Remaining capacity, charging cycles, Energy counter (auto reset at fully charged battery)
- SOC percentage will be OK when using 52V battery and 48V firmware. Or 48V batt and 43V firmw. (M510 FC2.0 peaking 830W then and u can feel it Saying OK as not easy to estimate SOC accurately just from voltage.

 

[Tilt]

Dengfu even goes as far as to not recommend buying the current M560. Here is a comparison between the M560 and the M600.

dengfu will sell the m560 when they sell all their m600 stocks

 

[El Topo]

Hello El Topo.

.....

Thanks for the thorough response.

BTW: Did the M610 become the M560?! They look surprisingly similar. What happened there? EMBN posted this video just three months ago.

 

[Dado]

That was false information, Bafang named it M560, which is little non logical.

 

[El Topo]

That was false information, Bafang named it M560, which is little non logical.

Thanks for confirming.

....

I forgot to say thanks for the in-depth reply, I appreciate it!

 

[El Topo]

Can anyone please post a link to the schematics of the M560? I can't make out which Q-factor these cranks will actually result in.
The only thing I was able to find out, is that the total spindle length is apparently 154,8mm, total length of both cranks is 114mm, but I can't find out how deep the spindle is inserted into each crank (20-25mm?)

TIA!

 

[Tilt]

Can anyone please post a link to the schematics of the M560? I can't make out which Q-factor these cranks will actually result in.
The only thing I was able to find out, is that the total spindle length is apparently 154,8mm, total length of both cranks is 114mm, but I can't find out how deep the spindle is inserted into each crank (20-25mm?)

TIA!

 

[Tilt]

fatbike crank in 152 minutes received and ordered on eBay

 

[El Topo]

Thank you very much, I found them on ebay. They do look like having a similar offset (around 42mm) like the cranks from 4leaf.

Would you mind measuring the actual Q-factor, when the cranks are mounted on the motor? I would expect something around 225-230mm?

TIA!

Are there any normal (non-fat) short-ish aftermarket cranks with a higher offset than usual?
Miranda's Q16 will likely be to narrow for a fat bike, but Q35 (which aren't even available for the Bafang mount, AFAIK) likely has a lot of clearance, even for the fat bike chainstays.


Is it confirmed, that most/all M560 are that loud?

 

[Tilt]

Thank you very much, I found them on ebay. They do look like having a similar offset (around 42mm) like the cranks from 4leaf.

Would you mind measuring the actual Q-factor, when the cranks are mounted on the motor? I would expect something around 225-230mm?

TIA!

Are there any normal (non-fat) short-ish aftermarket cranks with a higher offset than usual?
Miranda's Q16 will likely be to narrow for a fat bike, but Q35 (which aren't even available for the Bafang mount, AFAIK) likely has a lot of clearance, even for the fat bike chainstays.


Is it confirmed, that most/all M560 are that loud?

I just received my fat the cranks are short 152 mins super and the weight of the fat ultra ultra-light I will soon post photos and the description of the fatbike-light

 

[Tomblarom]

I was searching for better quality ball-bearings for my M560 and discovered, that "Silnt 60/22-10RS 22*42*10mm" is a non-standardized bearing and proprietary! If this bearing dies, there is no easy replacement! Should be identical for M510-motors.

 

[El Topo]

I just received my fat the cranks are short 152 mins super and the weight of the fat ultra ultra-light I will soon post photos and the description of the fatbike-light

Looking forward to your findings.

I was searching for better quality ball-bearings for my M560 and discovered, that "Silnt 60/22-10RS 22*42*12mm" is a non-standardized bearing and proprietary! If this bearing dies, there is no easy replacement! Should be identical for M510-motors.

Is your own M560 as loud as the other engines, that are shown in this thread? I am still wondering, if I should roll the dice on the M560, instead of swapping the M510 to a M560 later.

 

[Tilt]

Looking forward to your findings.


Is your own M560 as loud as the other engines, that are shown in this thread? I am still wondering, if I should roll the dice on the M560, instead of swapping the M510 to a M560 later.

Today I just fitted the tires. I'm going to try the fat tomorrow

 

[El Topo]

Wow, that is light, thanks!

I think my heavier components won't weigh more than 3.5kg extra, that is still pretty light for a full suspension fat ebike.

 

[Tilt]

Wow, that is light, thanks!

I think my heavier components won't weigh more than 3kg extra, that is still pretty light for a full suspension fat ebike.

it depends on the engine and battery you are going to install

 

[Tomblarom]

Is your own M560 as loud as the other engines, that are shown in this thread? I am still wondering, if I should roll the dice on the M560, instead of swapping the M510 to a M560 later.

The reason why I started disassembling it was, that I read about the noise levels. I did not ride that thing yet and took my brand new M560 appart and de-greased it in order to examine the gears and bearings closer. I'll order FAG/SKFs soon and replace them. The bearings on the M560 (mostlikely M510 aswell) are nearly identical to the ones on M600.

 

[Tomblarom]

M560 Controller-side:
emtbforums.com/threads/bafang-m560.33293/post-515666

M560 Motor-side:

M560 Stator/Rotor:

M560 PCB Connector Board:

M560 Torquesensor:

M560 Mainshaft assembly: