SZZS specific CEF50-main thread (initial builds and troubleshooting related only)

[ficorama]

I think we should all get some "rewards-benefits" from bafang and zssz! we test their products and solve problems for free.

 

[LAnton]

I think we should all get some "rewards-benefits" from bafang and zssz! we test their products and solve problems for free.

After a year of driving, the m820 engine started to make a little noise. Jean replaced my old engine with a new one under warranty. Do you know a hot seller of frames and motors from China who did this?

 

[TCFlowClyde]

After a year of driving, the m820 engine started to make a little noise. Jean replaced my old engine with a new one under warranty. Do you know a hot seller of frames and motors from China who did this?

As she should. Remember still under warranty with Bafang.

But there has been a lot of changes and work arounds to get used too. Most has been solved over time with the motor guard exception.

A year later and 1000 miles, my CEF 50 is still going strong.

 

[LAnton]

I'm ok with the 720 Wh too....less weight for the motor drop frame. Soon I'll plan the extender mount for camping, but really haven't needed a larger one for me under 2.5 hrs of riding..

I am constantly faced with the inconvenience of not having a removable battery. And there are several reasons for a removable battery:
1. Transportation of a bicycle on a Thule bicycle carrier. The maximum weight of the bike is 20kg.
2. There is no way to charge the bike on the street.
3. Riding in winter requires charging in the heat.
4. There is no way to quickly wash the bike after a dirty ride. And the battery needs to be charged.
5. All instructions say that you need to charge the batteries in a safe place. And most importantly, it is very fast to charge two 10A batteries with two 5ah chargers.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I am constantly faced with the inconvenience of not having a removable battery. And there are several reasons for a removable battery:
1. Transportation of a bicycle on a Thule bicycle carrier. The maximum weight of the bike is 20kg.
2. There is no way to charge the bike on the street.
3. Riding in winter requires charging in the heat.
4. There is no way to quickly wash the bike after a dirty ride. And the battery needs to be charged.
5. All instructions say that you need to charge the batteries in a safe place. And most importantly, it is very fast to charge two 10A batteries with two 5ah chargers.

I keep mine inside like a favorite family pet dog. But, yes you make good points. Also, It would be hard to fly on commercial airlines with this frame.

 

[Lehr]

Now you can install a 170mm long dropper on a frame with a size of M

I'm installing reverb c1 175 on an old S size

 

[calvintys]

Just finish build 4pc CEF50 another it's not inside picture, All 4 frame setup with normal headset NOT ICR , all 4 frame does not has any headset issues. The normal headset come with aluminium bearing seat NOT plastic. Very satisfied with the headset frame n geometry except for the cable sound.

 

[ficorama]

if anyone needs it, I have the Besst tool for sale. message agreement. I send within Europe

 

[un..inc]

if anyone needs it, I have the Besst tool for sale. message agreement. I send within Europe

For how much are you planning on selling it?

 

[Stephen B]

I finally broke the motor guard.
Is there a better replacement option than the original extremely fragile one?

I made a temporary replacement from a piece of 1/4 inch Lexan using a heat gun to bend it.
It is really fucking ugly, but it is essentially shatter proof.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I finally broke the motor guard.
Is there a better replacement option than the original extremely fragile one?

I made a temporary replacement from a piece of 1/4 inch Lexan using a heat gun to bend it.
It is really fucking ugly, but it is essentially shatter proof.

Yep...it's a definite manufacturer flaw. No remedy on the horizon. A few of us have done workarounds. One did an Aluminum plate guard. I did a carbon fiber patch and reinforcement.

I posted all that here last December. Both are functional still as I understand it. I had a small crack a few months ago, but I just epoxied my "upgraded" guard (non structural). Still protecting my Bafang M820 mini-powerhouse.

So, a composite of the OEM as a plastic base-layer, with the carbon overlay like mine would be a good solution for SZZS. But they (SZZS) don't listen in my experience. Plus, Iit might be quicker to just order a new plastic guard and reinforce it DIY. Since, the carbon fiber conforms to the contours it stills keeps out dust and retains it's natural aesthetics.

Got a pic of your workarounds? Regardless of looks, better to have functionality on this overlooked necessity....guarding the motor from hard impacts.

 

[Stephen B]

I can take a picture tonight or tomorrow.

it was my first time bending plexiglass and I have no skill what so ever.

I did test it pretty hard with a hammer after forming.

 

[PaulH]

What about reaching out to the English firm that makes the custom CF ones? I just got my bike Friday and have two. I understand they have a minimum order amount but if we all (or a sufficient number) chipped in for a one-time order that ought to get this issue resolved. I understood they needed an original part to use as the original.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I can take a picture tonight or tomorrow.

it was my first time bending plexiglass and I have no skill what so ever.

I did test it pretty hard with a hammer after forming.

No worries. If it seems viable, the first or second iteration typical looks like a crude prototype. Just keep refining it. Sounds like you've made a third creative option.. Reminded about the adage of necessity, and the mother of invention.

Admittedly, I' have only basic experience with my CF frame patching... reminds me a little of carving wood with the sanding. But I'm definitely no wood carver, unless you include whittling down hiking sticks from pine branches...so no to low skill.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

What about reaching out to the English firm that makes the custom CF ones? I just got my bike Friday and have two. I understand they have a minimum order amount but if we all (or a sufficient number) chipped in for a one-time order that ought to get this issue resolved. I understood they needed an original part to use as the original.

smart idea!

 

[Stephen B]

What about reaching out to the English firm that makes the custom CF ones? I just got my bike Friday and have two. I understand they have a minimum order amount but if we all (or a sufficient number) chipped in for a one-time order that ought to get this issue resolved. I understood they needed an original part to use as the original.

Put me down for one if you can get enough people.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

What about reaching out to the English firm that makes the custom CF ones? I just got my bike Friday and have two. I understand they have a minimum order amount but if we all (or a sufficient number) chipped in for a one-time order that ought to get this issue resolved. I understood they needed an original part to use as the original.

See you've got 4 on board for a bundle group order... what's the manufacturer minimum for initial design batch?

I thought a CAD scan of the OEM plastic guard would facilitate.

Lastly, more than $100/USD/unit would be my limit for the initial batch. Ideally, subsequent orders would be $50 USD/per.

While my composite (plastic/CF overlay) works, I'd bet the weight could be cut in half and seal out dust really well as a secondary gain (not the psych kind in behaviorism)....plus look factory-sharp and avoid labor-intensive CF overlay ( i.e.,
sanding process).... that's my motivation!

Maybe check it out. I think at least 6-7 total may be interested.

 

[PaulH]

I have sent 6 emails to manufacturers on three continents describing our problem and what we would like to have made including photos of broken guards and the factory original and .stp image. Did not mention numbers - only asked what the MOQ would be for such an order and estimated price per unit.

I will report back with any responses.

 

[PaulH]

First reply:

Hi Paul - Our primary product is our derailleur guard, tho we sell handguards, Specialized gen 3 levo skid plates and keychains. The skid plates we make were more of a side project that has proven popular. They are laser cut from a very durable flat plastic - much less detail than your part.

Your skid plate would require injection molds ($30K+) or 3D printing. For 3D printing you need a really high quality material such as composite nylon kevlar. I have not worked with this personally, but it is def beyond the realm of home 3D printers. We had a couple of prototype parts made from 3d printed nylon by a commercial 3d printing company. I wasn't impressed.

FInally, if you are good with origami, you could have them laser cut from aluminum with bend lines built in, then fold into shape. Check out sendcutsend.com

Good luck!

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Yes, I imagine some challenges are in order. I detailed several CF motor guards in UK and one in the US in August of last year and then later in November/December.

I think a CF layup is the way to go. They're all handmade. A working prototype from one of these two bike shops (especially the UK one) seems most probable as to they fabricate Levos aftermarket. I shouldn't be crazy money requiring capital investors

Too bad SZZS won't make in-house, it would be sooo cheap! They argue that a carbon guard will vibrate stress up to the carbon downtube. Technically, they could just reinforce the motor mount/downtube joint. I had them do that exactly for my warranty replacement frame when it came cracked at the mounting/motor guard tab during Initial shipment. (The additional layer added only another 50 g.)

But honestly, I doubt that it would be an issue. The carbon fiber layup is less strong than the CF HD moulded frame. So, the CF guard would fracture first and could easily be patched at home with a kit purchased online at eBay or Amazon.

I have absolutely no sign of my frame cracking with plastic/CF overlay. Maybe, it's the plastic buffering it, but I doubt it. The plastic just served as a contour mould to add extra weight. A stand-alone CF layup guard would be thin and super light.

I encourage you to keep going. Also, thanks in advance to putting into action a good plan and making a positive team contribution. iMHO.

 

[un..inc]

No need to 3d-Scan, I think there is a CAD-File of the guard somewhere...
Maybe trying to 3d-print it and then layer it up with carbon could work?!?

 

[calvintys]

No need to 3d-Scan, I think there is a CAD-File of the guard somewhere...
Maybe trying to 3d-print it and then layer it up with carbon could work?!?

here the 3D file and maybe you could try 3d carbon printing

 

[TCFlowClyde]

No need to 3d-Scan, I think there is a CAD-File of the guard somewhere...
Maybe trying to 3d-print it and then layer it up with carbon could work?!?

The CAD-file could be helpful.

But probably easier/cheaper to just buy another SZZS plastic guard instead of 3-D printing it up.

 

[un..inc]

About 7 hours Print-time and 150g of Filament...
Not to bad. Did absolutely NO optimization.
Maybe even orientating it differently might be better.
With additional carbon on top and bottom, it might be sturdy enough...
I'll try it this week with some PETG-CF or something similar.

 

[Stephen B]

Here is the Lexan polycarbonate motor guard I made.
I just used a heat gun to soften it enough to bend, as you can tell I over heated it in a lot of places.
The right way to do it would have been to make a form out of plaster or something and heat the Lexan carefully in a oven and drape it over the mold.
I tested it by hitting it with a hammer and it absorbs the impacts nicely.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Here is the Lexan polycarbonate motor guard I made.
I just used a heat gun to soften it enough to bend, as you can tell I over heated it in a lot of places.
The right way to do it would have been to make a form out of plaster or something and heat the Lexan carefully in a oven and drape it over the mold.
I tested it by hitting it with a hammer and it absorbs the impacts nicely.

View attachment 142737

Bottom line: it protects.

 

[92se-r]

I think fundamentally your limit is going to be the tiny bolts needing to support the shield structurally. This needs to hold multiple times the weight of rider/bike. The shield needs more surface area to support. I have some ideas but am too busy to build it.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

First reply:

Hi Paul - Our primary product is our derailleur guard, tho we sell handguards, Specialized gen 3 levo skid plates and keychains. The skid plates we make were more of a side project that has proven popular. They are laser cut from a very durable flat plastic - much less detail than your part.

Your skid plate would require injection molds ($30K+) or 3D printing. For 3D printing you need a really high quality material such as composite nylon kevlar. I have not worked with this personally, but it is def beyond the realm of home 3D printers. We had a couple of prototype parts made from 3d printed nylon by a commercial 3d printing company. I wasn't impressed.

FInally, if you are good with origami, you could have them laser cut from aluminum with bend lines built in, then fold into shape. Check out sendcutsend.com

Good luck!

Quick followup since there seems to be some legitimate interest. I just emailed one European (AVSracing.com) and one UK (Rockguardz.com) CF guard fabricator with this:

Hi, Can you folks make a custom CF motor guard. I belong to an online user group for a Bafang motor carbon frame called the CEF50.

Initial order would be 5-10 units depending on price ($100 USD+)?

Also, I have a CAD file to send.

The OEM guard is brittle plastic and shatters with ease, e.g.,soft pinewood step ups. Very frustrating.

Thanks,
TC

We'll see what happens. I'll post any and all responses. But my bet would be Rockguardz.com. I'll repost some highlights of the basic process from their website:

Feel free to inquire independently on your own. Update us with details.

 

[masahirov]

Good morning everyone. My engine cover cracked so I made a protector out of Kydex.

If it was 2mm thick it would be difficult to mold, or rather the base material (motor cover) would be distorted by the heat, so I made it 1mm thick and it came out beautifully.Kydex is easy to obtain and form, so I recommend it.

I'll try this for a while to see if it breaks.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Good morning everyone. My engine cover cracked so I made a protector out of Kydex.

View attachment 142758 View attachment 142759 View attachment 142760

If it was 2mm thick it would be difficult to mold, or rather the base material (motor cover) would be distorted by the heat, so I made it 1mm thick and it came out beautifully.Kydex is easy to obtain and form, so I recommend it.
View attachment 142761

I'll try this for a while to see if it breaks.

Good idea....but i'd consider covering ALL the underside and side fairings. A few of us had the motor guard completely shatter into ten pieces plus just on soft branches/wood step-ups.

Check out last July and August of last year on this thread.