SZZS specific CEF50-main thread (initial builds and troubleshooting related only)

[Waynemarlow]

I’m afraid as an EE it’s either correct or it’s not. Unfortunately all too often I see basic motor and battery function perhaps misunderstand by the poster along with way people will accept anything written on the internet must be true.

In my view incorrect information blindly followed can only lead to slower development of what looks to be a very good over all EMtb.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I’m afraid as an EE it’s either correct or it’s not. Unfortunately all too often I see basic motor and battery function perhaps misunderstand by the poster along with way people will accept anything written on the internet must be true.

In my view incorrect information blindly followed can only lead to slower development of what looks to be a very good over all EMtb.

And there it is. You're making my point.

Mike is an EE, so sticking with the more friendly, much more affable one, and in my experience on this thread in particular, more edifying overall.

Sorry man, still stay'ng with the Ole' Mikester, the Mike-o-nater, and finally Mike-is-alright!

 

[Waynemarlow]

You’re welcome to follow whoever you want, it’s no problem for me.

All I can do is recommend that you do some research and make informed decisions based on that rather than accepting that everything written on the internet is correct.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

You’re welcome to follow whoever you want, it’s no problem for me.

All I can do is recommend that you do some research and make informed decisions based on that rather than accepting that everything written on the internet is correct.

Noted. I'll freshen up on my critical thinking skills. They seem to be intact so far.

Again, I recommend you "read the room" better. Perhaps, research the effectiveness of empathy in science education. And on providing effective online feedback. Because it sure seems that your comments/advice I've seen to date really have been bloviation and technocratic trolling more than anything else.

Maybe troll another thread instead, or better yet, just create you're own on the CEF50 dude?

 

[Waynemarlow]

Well that’s interesting, so educated correction of poor internet advice is deemed to be blovation and technocratic trolling.

Alas it’s simply my view that poor advice will delay the advancement of what could be a very good frame and motor, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Well that’s interesting, so educated correction of poor internet advice is deemed to be blovation and technocratic trolling.

Alas it’s simply my view that poor advice will delay the advancement of what could be a very good frame and motor, nothing more, nothing less.

Bottom line, troll somewhere else.

 

[un..inc]

Guys it’s been proven over and over that a higher volts motor should have more torque and power but manufacturers don’t quite work that way and instead have common parts across the entire range, simply changing output via computer control to get different characteristics including max power.

Bottom line, troll somewhere else.

Why is he trolling?
He has absolute valid Points...

 

[temon10]

Come on, back to more useful comment.

 

[LAnton]

Let's take a ride on the new perfect motoreM820 and on the most wonderful and light frame CEF50.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Why is he trolling?
He has absolute valid Points...

I should've directed the original question to the M820 specific thread like I've done in the past with this poster. We're really a friendly CEF50 specific thread.

I suggest following up there for the Bafang 48V topics for those interested.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Yipes...my mating bolt sheered off on my main pivot bolt. But here's what I discovered...my OEM pivot bolt is too short.

I should've noticed it sooner...

It looks like about 9.25 mm short in order to be flush with the opposite side of the bushing of rocker arm/frame pivot.

I'm having a Ti bolt custom made with a mating bolt by Huk-tek that specializes in mtb suspension bolts. Owner validated it should be longer.

Hopefully, SZZS just sent me a wrong sized pivot bolt.

Anyone else?

 

[LAnton]

Yipes...my mating bolt sheered off on my main pivot bolt. But here's what I discovered...my OEM pivot bolt is too short.

I should've noticed it sooner...

It looks like about 9.25 mm short in order to be flush with the opposite side of the bushing of rocker arm/frame pivot.

I'm having a Ti bolt custom made with a mating bolt by Huk-tek that specializes in mtb suspension bolts. Owner validated it should be longer.

Hopefully, SZZS just sent me a wrong sized pivot bolt.

Anyone else?

View attachment 119849
View attachment 119850

This should be checked. What is the correct bolt length?

 

[TCFlowClyde]

This should be checked. What is the correct bolt length?

Approximately 61 mm +/-

 

[TCFlowClyde]

This should be checked. What is the correct bolt length?

Let me know what length you have when you get a chance.

Hopefully, it's just my bad luck alone.

 

[Herculesridesebikes]

Let me know what length you have when you get a chance.

Hopefully, it's just my bad luck alone.

I just sent these photos to Jean and asked her what size is standard from the factory. Hopefully they aren't all made too short, did it damage your frame at all?

 

[LAnton]

I also wrote about Jean's problem. She said she would find out from the engineer. My bolt is 58mm long. The total length is 64mm. The length of one crown is 9mm . The bolt enters from one side by 3 mm. I don't have any problems yet. I think that it is not necessary to tighten the M6 bolt much. 12H is very strong for M6

 

[Waynemarlow]

We're really a friendly CEF50 specific thread.

It would appear not. The minute you throw in the Internet Troll accusation against someone who is simply trying to correct misinformation, without it would appear actually having any sort of basic knowledge of the subject, then one can only conclude that you are trying to moderate an open forum (of which you are not a moderator ), to appear to your own delusion as the owner of this thread.

In the friendliest of terms may I remind you that you are just another poster with a personal view, albeit it would seem with a minimum of electrical knowledge. As a University lecturer once said at a lecture I attended, never ever doubt someone who is far more erudite than you, but you can learn and correct them when you know more than them.

From a track record of pushing the lightweight EMtbs for a lot of years, now watching the lightweights really taking off in sales and finally being able to DIY purchase great frames, it’s a joy for me to see threads such as this.

I think I’m out of this thread and I’ll leave you to your resident so called experts.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I just sent these photos to Jean and asked her what size is standard from the factory. Hopefully they aren't all made too short, did it damage your frame at all?

Fortunately no frame damage and was able to ride it back to the trail head.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I also wrote about Jean's problem. She said she would find out from the engineer. My bolt is 58mm long. The total length is 64mm. The length of one crown is 9mm . The bolt enters from one side by 3 mm. I don't have any problems yet. I think that it is not necessary to tighten the M6 bolt much. 12H is very strong for M6

Your main pivot bolt length is 58 mm. Does that include the bolt head too?

Do you mind taking a pic with caliper measurement if you can? I can tell Huk-tek and update today before machining. I appreciate it.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I think I’m out of this thread and I’ll leave you to your resident so called experts.

Sounds wise. Thank you

 

[LAnton]

Your main pivot bolt length is 58 mm. Does that include the bolt head too?

Do you mind taking a pic with caliper measurement if you can? I can tell Huk-tek and update today before machining. I appreciate it.

This is together with the head. I've already screwed the bolt back on. The bolt should be longer by 4-5mm. He's holding on, but not tight enough. Let's wait for Jean's response. And we will make new bolts of the required length.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

This is together with the head. I've already screwed the bolt back on. The bolt should be longer by 4-5mm. He's holding on, but not tight enough. Let's wait for Jean's response. And we will make new bolts of the required length.

I just did a crude measurement with my hex wrench. I will pop out one bushing to get a better measurements, and then compare to it Jean's measurements when you get them.

 

[Moderator]

Again, I recommend you "read the room" better. Perhaps, research the effectiveness of empathy in science education. And on providing effective online feedback. Because it sure seems that your comments/advice I've seen to date really have been bloviation and technocratic trolling more than anything else.

OK guys and girls (though not sure there are any ladies making CEF50's in this thread ?).

I'm not going to warn anyone or delete/edit any posts. However, I will make a couple of observations on etiquette, which may or may not help with avoiding little moments like this on a forum.

This thread has pretty much been self moderating. Miss understandings have all been worked out amongst the posters and I think everyone has always made up and moved on - over what are generally just upsets about how something is read or written and then is taken the wrong way.

then one can only conclude that you are trying to moderate an open forum (of which you are not a moderator ), to appear to your own delusion as the owner of this thread.

So firstly, @TCFlowClyde is the OP as you've correctly pointed out. Invariably OP's are more protective of the threads they've created and often put considerable energy, thoughts and knowledge into them. OP's are more likely to use the report function if they think someone is spamming or trolling "their" thread (no one has in this instance). As Moderators we do generally give slightly more leeway to OP's, within reason, as they've probably created the thread with a specific purpose in mind and want to keep the thread on track. Often some of their persona will bleed over into the threads content and different threads have different atmospheres because of this.

@Waynemarlow This is where things went wrong.

@TCFlowClyde said :

Where he's clearly not making any claims to be an electrical engineer and is quite happy to admit he doesn't know and displays humility in his post.

You then said :

Whilst you may not of tried or meant to cause offence, your reply is blunt and reads as aggressive with the first sentence which is completely unnecessary and is ultimately demeaning.

To help give you an example. Gary used to be blunt and direct when you posted incorrect facts. You didn't like that and it always ended up with all the toys being thrown out of the pram. You'd hope from your experiences you'd have developed some empathy for similar situations.

The second part of your paragraph makes a technical proposal which is counter to the theory already being discussed in the posts previous to yours that it's possible the motors are physically identical :

Yet you provided no evidence or experience to back up your comment, like some nice stripped down pictures of inside the motors or even weights of the different motors.

You then said :

I’m afraid as an EE it’s either correct or it’s not. Unfortunately all too often I see basic motor and battery function perhaps misunderstand by the poster along with way people will accept anything written on the internet must be true.

Where you seem more interested in arguing your basic point - where once again the discussion was actually about choosing a motor voltage, not necessarily on it's technical advantages or disadvantages, but on the availability of the range extenders and batteries to go with the bike. For instance the delays with the 48v batteries.

There's also the point you keep making that people shouldn't believe what they read on the internet ! Unless it's written by you ?

This is a useful, productive and interesting thread and I'd like to hope everyone can put this behind them as an irrelevant blip, we can all make mistakes and sometimes rush to write things without fully evaluating what we're saying. Everyone posting here has something to offer and is obviously welcome and encouraged to continue to post in the thread.

Whilst I won't be deleting anything which has been posted. Any further posts on the subject which are derogatory or personal will be deleted.

Thanks all. Have a nice day now.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Just out of curiosity, do we know the weights of the different voltage motors ? Though obviously it's not a sure fire way to work out if they're different or not.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

This is together with the head. I've already screwed the bolt back on. The bolt should be longer by 4-5mm. He's holding on, but not tight enough. Let's wait for Jean's response. And we will make new bolts of the required length.

Here's my caliper measurements of the bolt shaft length (no bolt head) outer bushing edge-to-edge. So, flush to the mating bolt side.

45 mm + 9 mm (2) = 63 mm +/-.

The Huk-tek machinist suggests a minus 1-2 mm recessed shaft length in order to sink in the mating bolt with enough depth to allow some torque (hopefully 10-15 Nm). I think the 61 mm bolt shaft should work.

If it's not too much extra I might try another 59 mm length to compare. Plus, he's including a more standard Ti mating bolt than OEM to match. It's more art than science at this point.

Unfortunately, I'll have to risk ordering it today. The machinist lathe is open currently...it might not be available soon.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Mod, as a wee right of reply, If you wish I can bore the readers here to tears with researched papers to prove the points I make and I am probably one of the few readers on this forum who genuinely has tested and played with the electrical settings of both 36V and 48V motors within the same motor package, albiet not the M820.

But openly willing to accept that Gary has corrected me at times and I would say that you would have to agree using hindsight, I can say equally Gary has not always been correct in some of the disputes he has had with me along with a large number of other readers.

 

[LAnton]

Here's my caliper measurements of the bolt shaft length (no bolt head) outer bushing edge-to-edge. So, flush to the mating bolt side.

45 mm + 9 mm (2) = 63 mm +/-.

The Huk-tek machinist suggests a minus 1-2 mm recessed shaft length in order to sink in the mating bolt with enough depth to allow some torque (hopefully 10-15 Nm). I think the 61 mm bolt shaft should work.

If it's not too much extra I might try another 59 mm length to compare. Plus, he's including a more standard Ti mating bolt than OEM to match. It's more art than science at this point.

Unfortunately, I'll have to risk ordering it today. The machinist lathe is open currently...it might not be available soon.

View attachment 119896 It is interesting. I will disassemble another bike again. We need to check which one he has. The frame size M has a second part of the bolt of 2mm together with the head. We twist the M6 steel bolt into an aluminum part. Isn't 10-15N a bit for an M6 bolt?

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Here's what Huk-tek milled for me. It should be to my address in a few days hopefully.

I'll let you know how it fits.

The suggested torque was for the new ones. Both the pivot bolt and mating bolt will be M8 with of a torque 10-12 Nm probably.

 

[Myalteregohamish]

Man I'm hoping this was a one off situation, I don't want failing bolts.

 

[Kenk3589]

Here's what Huk-tek milled for me. It should be to my address in a few days hopefully.

I'll let you know how it fits.

The suggested torque was for the new ones. Both the pivot bolt and mating bolt will be M8 with of a torque 10-12 Nm probably.

View attachment 119929

Is huktek a bolt company? I am still waiting for my bolts to ship from China.. I assume those bolts are gonna be incorrectly sized at this point