temon10
Well-known member
some orders will ship this week. Hope include mine and will receive a month after shipping maybe around end of April.My order is paid now the big waiting game begins!
How many people here are waiting on orders now?
SZZS specific CEF50-main thread (initial builds and troubleshooting related only)
- Thread starter TCFlowClyde
- Start date
TCFlowClyde
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- Thread starter
- #662
Yep delayed for me. They're still working out the 720Wh battery unfortunately.
Myalteregohamish
Active member
Hopefully they figure out the 720Wh soon. Although I’m waiting on XL frames to complete which is middle of April including paint. Swat Linda said at least.
We just need to go into hypersleep until we get to Pandora...I mean until delivery 
TCFlowClyde
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- #665
I thought Abt ordering XL....standover just a tad tall for me....plus I feared they'd delay longer on XL ( and SM). So, good that you're ordering it to get the mold started for others...too bad RobRides at 6'3" is gonna be cramped when he rides the LCE930 on a large.
Hey Rob maybe test out and review the M820-75 on the CEF50 XL frame instead of, or at least first?
Just contact Linda or Jean...I'm sure they'd send you a sample kit....you'll get it much faster, months likely.
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TCFlowClyde
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- #666
Well I think I've said most of what I can.We just need to go into hypersleep until we get to Pandora...I mean until delivery
I can't remember exactly from when I got quotes (painted vs non-painted) but it was super cheap... something like $25 or $30 more. Can't even do a crappy rattle can job for that amount
TCFlowClyde
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- #672
Looks great!! Actually cool color choice.
Someone else showed their's with complicated patterns...looked good too! Very professionally done.
Now, I'm thinking about having them paint mine during my extra, extra delay. I do use rattle cans to fade then add clear wrap...but wrap and/or helicopter tape not that cheap. $30 for factory paint is unbeatable... usually it's not. That was my main issue... painting was gonna be extra long, but mine will be way late anyway...still waiting on them to dial in the 720Wh.
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TCFlowClyde
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- #673
I have two full powered Light Carbons. It took several weeks just to have them paint matte black. Back then, LC said to add 2-3 more weeks for gloss painting. Delaying it a month longer just for a factory paint job.🫣
The CEF50 team seems to be on it very efficiently!
DIY Frame warranty: elephant-in-the-room? Mentioned here in recent previous threads is the CEF50'S light-weight frame. And the 3-year frame warranty. Most of us buying direct consumer or DIY carbon builds acknowledge that quality control lacks, support lacks, and warranty lacks compared to the big brands.
Consider these arguments. Many if not most high density carbon frames in the world are fabricated in mainland China, and the big brands use them! Orbea and Kelly appear to make theirs in their home countries, as well as a few obscure others.
What stands out is little to no field-testing and quality control...the DIY builds take a certain amount of courage to be among the first to spend precious resources on an untested product.
As others with previous DIY build can attest to, customer support really has improved after purchasing their products with some of the better-known Chinese frame manufacturers like DengFu and Light Carbon. RobRides really held the DengFu E10 frame accountable along with the Bafang m500 motor. He should be able to do the same the M820 LCE930 light weight build, as well.
Sure, I wish the frames could be lifetime warranty like Forestal, Transition, and Orbea, just to name a few. Their field-testing is unparalleled. Probably why forums like this tend to help bridge the DIY communication gap better. Very few legit Bafang YouTube reviewers out there unfortunately.
While the CEF50'S warranty is only 3 years, sometimes an extended warranty can be purchased. I'll ask to see if they might consider an extra 2-year extension upgrade for an nominal additional fee. I encourage others to inquire if interested. The more that inquire, the higher the demand, the more likely it will happen. A 5-year warranty has nicer degree of confidence.
Frame weight comparisons. All have a fully integrated downtube battery that requires a burdensome motor drop technique. Sure it's not complex, but it's not quick either. I can drop my motor in/out in 30-45 mins. I don't do it often, so it could be faster, but I'm no race mechanic....so.
The big advantage of no large battery cut outs is both strength and loss of weight. Plus, less hardware mounting weight for a latch and cradle system found in the Relay (which looks super convenient and a great engineering feat). Orbea's Wild M-LTD race build claims a 900g/1.94 kb frame weight savings while calculating a 51% gain in overall stiffness frame integrity. The Wild in large with 38 forks and exo casing tires comes in at a mind-bending 46.5 lb/21.09 kg for a full-powered 85Nm motor...just WOW!Unfortunately, frame weight is not listed.
The Forestal Siryon in the light-weight, mid-powered category where the large frame comes in at a claimed +/-5.29lb/2.4 kg. The travel is a bigger 170f/170r and is supported by this frame weight.
The Transition Relay frame weight isn't listed either, but in the heavy PNW build, it's estimated to be 44.5 lb/20.19+/- with large 38 fork/exo casing tires. The frame supports 170f/160r rear travel. Damn close to the CEF50'S specs of 170f/150r travel and their frame weight is supported.
The CEF50's frame in large is 5.32 lb./2.415 kg (scale weighing posted in this thread previously). Structural integrity is unknown, and frankly is the risk-to-reward tradeoff or relevant metaphor: the big, obvious issue that is politely not discussed, or simply the ignored elephant in the room.
Theoretically, after the 3-yr warranty expires, a new frame replacement would be another $800 USD. To get to the current cost of the lowest carbon build cost of the Siryon is $9,000 USD, you could spend 10 + years buying a new CEF50 frame replacement every year! So for me, the risk is mitigated, plus I get to outfit the build they way I want as several of my pricer components carry over from the past DIY build. (My carbon wheelset, my Transfer dropper, GX-axs drivetrain, and XT- brakes.)
Anyway, don't let the doubters and haters diminish your courage on purchasing the first batch of the CEF50 frames. I'm not! Besides, the doubt and hate is often based on ignorance (commonly willful), fear of the unknown, and frankly, just no-to-low due diligence.And like-like (as close to as possible) comparisons are demonstrated here to give more informed contrasts, given the limited information.
Nutshell: I believe it's low risk (no field-testing) to a very high reward (cost savings performance). You'll have to make up your own mind however.
Some of the riding I did on Sunday, I'd be dead if my frame catastrophically broke.
It definitely gives me pause occasionally.
TCFlowClyde
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- Thread starter
- #675
Yeah, two carbon analogue frames and one very robust alloy frame failures in past 8 years!
Luckily, no injuries, but one carbon quietly melted on a small summit ascent rather than blew up on the ensuing very rocky decent. Walked both pieces 7 miles back to my truck....suucked but was solo and fairly remote from medical...very fortunate. The good news is that E-mtb frames tend to be overbuilt in order to accommodate the extra support needed for the motor and battery. On my full-powered rigs, no problems yet on harsh desert terrain in almost 3 years.
As a heavier rider, I stay small pops and drops. Definitely no 30 fter gaps being sent on my end. Maybe a 3 fter on very rare occasion, if I'm feeling confident, and hero dirt is everywhere (rarity again)...and there's cash on the line!
I went with the two extra warranty years because it's more lightweight in nature, with no battery cuts outs....so stronger in theory! Hope so anyway!
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My opinion and experience:
China warranty is just an commercial announce. lot of people confuse with their local countries rules. mistake. I have tested several china CPY warranty, someone never answer (mostly sub supplier), or doing nothing, or request you pay the return of the fails product (too many expensive and lost time). Other provide spare part but you need to pay the shipping and/or the spare part. Other (very few) provide support and spare parts/shipping free.
About that I need to say that bafang have evoluate to better since several years, in opposit of my first exeriency with they. China warranty announced is not on argument for me. I taking account only in the history and the customers returns.
Before purchasing my E10 i have perform a lot of work of sourcing of the customers return on frame builders, i have identified dengfu and light carbon for CPY with quality brands picture, long history and nothing bad return. At that time light carbon didn't want to sale one unit of Ebike frame, i have purchased the E10 and i was not be disapointed. When light carbon have accept to sale directely, i have also purchase one frame and i can say they are equivalent quality.
I am sure that the manufacturers of CEF50 frames have extensive experience in the production of frames. The factory produces well-known brands. And the most important thing for a light bike is the frame weight of 2450g. We spend a lot of money on light parts, and we have to buy a heavy frame.
TCFlowClyde
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- #679
As you said your experiences. Sorry, just not mine. Sure, it makes sense to track postings of frame problems, if available. But there is no history to track. This is the first E-mtb by this company.
I think it's worth the extra warranty insurance. It's cheap enough for my needs. Most will honor it. And yes, they will make you pay for shipping for the replacement part. Most will obviously request pictures/video of the claim. They never have requested to ship it back to them as the cost of shipping makes the claim worthless in my two claims with different companies. One well-known frame manufacturer ICAN never asked me to ship the frame back. My claim was 2 months after the warranty expired, but they said they would discount the frame replacement anyway for good customer support.
That's when I decided to buy my first E-mtb DIY frame instead. They didn't have any E-mtb frames at ICAN at the time, so I bought DengFu's full suspension E-mtb fat bike frame instead. It's full carbon, but has a heavier motor with bigger battery, so has more carbon for structural support. It's a 2 year warranty, but 2.5 years later still good after small drops and baby jumps...
I know others who made claims and were asked to cut the carbon frame in half and show them pictures. (It's a lot harder to repair clean cuts on carbon frame and likely renders it useless...a jagged break actually repairs well. I've done it and is still working well.)
So, I don't think that is an issue if you buy an extended warranty. It's only 3 years originally. I think an extra two should cover the carbon frame before I realistically just buy a whole new different frame after 5 years anyway. Lastly, I also know another who made a claim 3 times from LightCarbon on his full-powered LCES04 chainstays. They kept snapping, but he showed me videos...they were at a jump park on 10 ft flat drops....he was very brave, but landed very heavy in his technique and was a burly guy. Apparently, Jim at LC had the engineers build up the chainstay thicker and has worked in the past year, so far.
So my point is I believe they will honor the warranty except for obvious crash issues. I don't think they will make you pay for expensive shipping just to physically inspect it, only pictures or video to have them evaluate the claim in good faith. But I will ask before I purchase the extra years.
The positive news is, I don't think they would offer an extended warranty for this company if they weren't confident in their frame. I could be naive, but I don't think so.
Frame manufacturers tend to overbuild full powered E-mtbs in general. I think this too is so with the more lightweight class, just a little lighter. But, I want the extra peace of mind.
Bonus, it should have even more structural integrity due to no downtube battery cut outs that weaken the frame potentially and need extra structural support. Still it should be stronger that the lighter anlague frames that suffered fatigue failure at the seatpost in my case, and one at the chainstay from a small drop I hit hard on the landing.
For what it's worth.
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Myalteregohamish
Active member
Holy shit that looks amazing, I went the same matte just a bit darker. That looks off the hook.
Myalteregohamish
Active member
What’s size frame and battery?My frame + motor + battery ships on friday
Myalteregohamish
Active member
I totally agree and especially since the extended warranty was so inexpensive. Of course we’re making assumptions that they looked at previous meantime between failures of like carbon frames and have worked out that per customer occurrences are so low that the reasonable cost of extending the warranty is really no additional risk since cost of the frame only is around 800ish.
That's the interest of the forums, we can share easly our experiences and opinion.As you said your experiences. Sorry, just not mine. Sure, it makes sense to track postings of frame problems, if available. But there is no history to track. This is the first E-mtb by this company.
I think it's worth the extra warranty insurance. It's cheap enough for my needs. Most will honor it. And yes, they will make you pay for shipping for the replacement part. Most will obviously request pictures/video of the claim. They never have requested to ship it back to them as the cost of shipping makes the claim worthless in my two claims with different companies. One well-known frame manufacturer ICAN never asked me to ship the frame back. My claim was 2 months after the warranty expired, but they said they would discount the frame replacement anyway for good customer support.
That's when I decided to buy my first E-mtb DIY frame instead. They didn't have any E-mtb frames at ICAN at the time, so I bought DengFu's full suspension E-mtb fat bike frame instead. It's full carbon, but has a heavier motor with bigger battery, so has more carbon for structural support. It's a 2 year warranty, but 2.5 years later still good after small drops and baby jumps...
I know others who made claims and were asked to cut the carbon frame in half and show them pictures. (It's a lot harder to repair clean cuts on carbon frame and likely renders it useless...a jagged break actually repairs well. I've done it and is still working well.)
Lastly, I also know another who made a claim 3 times from LightCarbon on his full-powered LCES04 chainstays. They kept snapping, but he showed me videos...they were at a jump park on 10 ft flat drops....he was very brave, but landed very heavy in his technique and was a burly guy. Apparently, Jim at LC had the engineers build up the chainstay thicker and has worked in the past year, so far.
So my point is I believe they will honor the warranty except for obvious crash issues. I don't think they will make you pay for expensive shipping just to physically inspect it, only pictures or video to have them evaluate the claim in good faith. But I will ask before I purchase the extra years.
The positive news is, I don't think they would offer an extended warranty for this company if they weren't confident in their frame. I could be naive, but I don't think so.
Frame manufacturers tend to overbuild full powered E-mtbs in general. I think this too is so with the more lightweight class, just a little lighter. But, I want the extra peace of mind.
Bonus, it should have even more structural integrity due to no downtube battery cut outs that weaken the frame potentially and need extra structural support. Still it should be stronger that the lighter anlague frames that suffered fatigue failure at the seatpost in my case, and one at the chainstay from a small drop I hit hard on the landing.
For what it's worth.
About the run to the light weigth, my opinion is that the limit is the breakage, time and again proved since the bike exist.
An new product who the only advantage is the weight less than others, don't playing in the same game than product (or brand at less) with old good historical. My experiency about china products, is that they delgate the develloping to the purchasers and to be "in the first" is ofen an disadvantage.
My post isn't destinated to those who have purchase the frame (i hope sincerely you will satisfied), but to all other whitout experiencies in DIY Ebike and who think with that's saied in this subject that the warranty announced is an safety and the quality of the frame is the same level than those have proved their in other topics in this forum.
For all these newbees, my recommandation is "wait", at least one year and after with the return from firstly purchases you can estimate (or no ?) the quality and the scope of use of this frame . Mostly if you are an heavy rider.
But it just my opinion.
note: ICAN = light carbon (alike triaero)
TCFlowClyde
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- Thread starter
- #684
Yes, there is risk to assume. Bottomline, I think it's low and they will honor their warranty. So, I bought an extended 2 years. Plus, as a heavier rider, so factor that in, as I stated at the outset.
Yes, it would be smart to wait at least for a few others to buy first if you're worried. But please don't assume your experience is the only one out there. I have offered a counter argument with actually real warranty claim experience. To be fair, per your words, if I understood you correctly, you have absolutely no warranty experience. So, if your point is to offer a warning, sure that's fine, noted. But it's speculative with no backup evidence. Mine too is speculative but with 5 DIY China factory frames and one on the way! And warranty experience!
I'm not trying to be argumentive, but let's just keep it real. There is risk, as I stated at the very beginning of this long thread.
Also, keep in mind, like the DengFu E-10 (which is a copy of the awesome and popular Whyte Decoy) in the US, Luna Cycles bought the rights and blocked us out of a good frame. I just missed buying it by a month or so before DengFu wouldn't sell to the US market. There might not be an opportunity to purchase the CEF50 if trustworthy enough to see if frame integrity is robust after a year. But if so, the LCE930 will be a good bet too.
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DIY is always with risks. Every rider uses eMTB differently. So the strength needed by one rider who does 10ft jumps verses another rider who never jumps is different. Each buyer must evaluate their needs and how the product will meet those needs. I have purchase frames from ICAN and XMCarbonspeed and had great experience. Both products have turned out to be completely reliable for years. Does not mean that someone could not have broken both those frames.
People have different experiences with warranty claims from the name brand sellers too. Some good and some bad.
I certainly think that anyone expecting a local bike shop experience will be disappointed. Communication is harder and the buyer is responsible for doing their homework on every aspect of the build. I love building and designing bike builds. But I also don't mind taking full responsibility, even tho I am not a great mechanic. Your mileage may very.
I am looking forward to seeing if TC can break his frame
People have different experiences with warranty claims from the name brand sellers too. Some good and some bad.
I certainly think that anyone expecting a local bike shop experience will be disappointed. Communication is harder and the buyer is responsible for doing their homework on every aspect of the build. I love building and designing bike builds. But I also don't mind taking full responsibility, even tho I am not a great mechanic. Your mileage may very.
I am looking forward to seeing if TC can break his frame
TCFlowClyde
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- Thread starter
- #686
I'll be careful and start small, nothing extreme and crazy!🫣I am looking forward to seeing if TC can break his frame
I believe my issue has mainly been frame fatigue from many miles of use, likely from being heavier (it's an inherent material science inevitability)...so hopefully the CEF50 is as good as my other E-mtbs!
Size L, black matte, BT F014 43v
Myalteregohamish
Active member
I'm trying to understand the offset of the frame; should that match up to the offset of the fork as close as possible. I have both 51mm and 44mm offset forks for this build what would you all suggest?
TCFlowClyde
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- Thread starter
- #689
I'm using 51mm on 180 27.5er. Probably best feedback will be from our resident mechanical engineer with big travel Enduro knowledge: thaeber. He's the man!
Myalteregohamish
Active member
My thinking was to match the frame but what the hell do I know. I'll be running it MX so that would slacken things out a bit. Also I was going to run it 170mm. So it should end up being somewhere around 165/170.I'm using 51mm on 180 27.5er. Probably best feedback will be from our resident mechanical engineer with big travel Enduro knowledge: thaeber. He's the man!
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