Stephen B
Member
When I message them on Alibaba it says its going to Jean Wang other people are messaging Linda, am I in the wrong place?
Stephen
Stephen
SZZS specific CEF50-main thread (initial builds and troubleshooting related only)
- Thread starter TCFlowClyde
- Start date
Jean Wang is the sales manager
TCFlowClyde
Active member
- Thread starter
- #633
Goods news on M820-60 (EonDrive) power when comparing the Forestal Siryon to the CEF50'S M820-75.
Key point: It is good!
This from a reputable review a few months ago. See link for the full review.
www.mbr.co.uk
Key point: It is good!
This from a reputable review a few months ago. See link for the full review.
Forestal Siryon Diode 29 eMTB review - MBR
While there’s a long line of brands promising lightweight, mid-powered e-bikes, Forestal has already delivered not one, but two models, both with 29in wheels. There’s the 150mm travel Cyon for high-speed trail riding or the 170mm Siryon for smashing out laps on the most rowdy descents. And it’s...
www.mbr.co.uk
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TCFlowClyde
Active member
- Thread starter
- #634
Better news on M820-60 Forestal's 360 Wh battery compared to the M820-75 410 Wh. So, good move overall....another 50Wh will help, especially with another 15Nm of torque!
But still, pro/con depending on terrain, rider load, and prior fitness. Flatter vs. Higher elevation gain. Heavier load vs. lighter load. Also, your baseline fitness. Nutshell, lighter, more fit riders, doing flatter terrain should benefit most from the 50Wh battery capacity upgrade!
But still, pro/con depending on terrain, rider load, and prior fitness. Flatter vs. Higher elevation gain. Heavier load vs. lighter load. Also, your baseline fitness. Nutshell, lighter, more fit riders, doing flatter terrain should benefit most from the 50Wh battery capacity upgrade!
I've been dealing with Jean Wang from the start. She's quite responsive
Stephen B
Member
Thank you, sorry for all the questions, but I haven't used Alibaba before its a little intimidating.
Its not clear is the $1770 price delivered to the USA including battery and everything?
I don't see a way to order, do I do it in the chat, its the middle of the night in China so she hasn't responded yet.
How much more is paint?
Its not clear is the $1770 price delivered to the USA including battery and everything?
I don't see a way to order, do I do it in the chat, its the middle of the night in China so she hasn't responded yet.
How much more is paint?
TCFlowClyde
Active member
- Thread starter
- #637
Not so good news and realistic news! Good news is that power off "mode" generates low wattage on spin friction...not zero, but very low.
Another independent reviewer likened the TQ50's zero drag felt like pedaling lower PSI or flatter tires. I agree.
My subjective experience was that TQ50 felt slightly flat, the Fazua60, slighter more flat, and RS60 slightly, even more flat. Let's hope the M820 does mirror the TQ50
On the pragmatic...silence vs. noise. At lower to mid power modes, even full-powered tend to be fairly quiet. The TQ50 makes noise, but barely. The Fazua60 and RS60 are pretty quiet as well. Given that 10Nm of the latter exists it makes sense that a little more whir/whine is inevitable from physics.
Now the M820-60...turbo and superburst modes on the other hand may require some noise tolerance adjustment or earbuds to cancel out to metallic screeching?
See a compelling Emtb Video reviewer of the "screech" in higher power modes. Cue it to about 4:55 min to listen...sorry but it's weird and a little idiosyncratic.
Another independent reviewer likened the TQ50's zero drag felt like pedaling lower PSI or flatter tires. I agree.
My subjective experience was that TQ50 felt slightly flat, the Fazua60, slighter more flat, and RS60 slightly, even more flat. Let's hope the M820 does mirror the TQ50
On the pragmatic...silence vs. noise. At lower to mid power modes, even full-powered tend to be fairly quiet. The TQ50 makes noise, but barely. The Fazua60 and RS60 are pretty quiet as well. Given that 10Nm of the latter exists it makes sense that a little more whir/whine is inevitable from physics.
Now the M820-60...turbo and superburst modes on the other hand may require some noise tolerance adjustment or earbuds to cancel out to metallic screeching?
See a compelling Emtb Video reviewer of the "screech" in higher power modes. Cue it to about 4:55 min to listen...sorry but it's weird and a little idiosyncratic.
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I've been in touch with Jean since the beginning. Thanks to Jean, we were the first to learn about the CEF50 frame
TCFlowClyde
Active member
- Thread starter
- #639
Alright... alright! Here comes Rob Rides review of the updated Forestal Siryon 170/170 EonDrive60 (M820-Posh tune). Let's hope they gave Rob the latest, problem-free version.
Should give a little M820 insight to our CEF50 820-75 (Bafang Beastie tune) builds to help prime expectations.
Hopefully, no dramatic motor whine and maybe a power meter to help anticipate the M820-75 Beastie power modes in comparison.
m.youtube.com
Should give a little M820 insight to our CEF50 820-75 (Bafang Beastie tune) builds to help prime expectations.
Hopefully, no dramatic motor whine and maybe a power meter to help anticipate the M820-75 Beastie power modes in comparison.
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.
m.youtube.com
Last edited:
TCFlowClyde
Active member
- Thread starter
- #640
Here's the Transition Relay. It has a similar shock set up. See how similar it's the CEF50'S? The rocker arm should push the rear shock out forward and down in a compression arc, clearing any friction points away from the seatpost. It looks to be an optical illusion.
If not Relay testers/reviewers like RobRides and others would have definitely said something. So, I think that boosts my confidence level a bit, and when I finally get the chance to toss on my fatter MegNeg air can as soon as my frame arrives... hopefully!
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TCFlowClyde
Active member
- Thread starter
- #641
DIY Frame warranty: elephant-in-the-room? Mentioned here in recent previous threads is the CEF50'S light-weight frame. And the 3-year frame warranty. Most of us buying direct consumer or DIY carbon builds acknowledge that quality control lacks, support lacks, and warranty lacks compared to the big brands.
Consider these arguments. Many if not most high density carbon frames in the world are fabricated in mainland China, and the big brands use them! Orbea and Kelly appear to make theirs in their home countries, as well as a few obscure others.
What stands out is little to no field-testing and quality control...the DIY builds take a certain amount of courage to be among the first to spend precious resources on an untested product.
As others with previous DIY build can attest to, customer support really has improved after purchasing their products with some of the better-known Chinese frame manufacturers like DengFu and Light Carbon. RobRides really held the DengFu E10 frame accountable along with the Bafang m500 motor. He should be able to do the same the M820 LCE930 light weight build, as well.
Sure, I wish the frames could be lifetime warranty like Forestal, Transition, and Orbea, just to name a few. Their field-testing is unparalleled. Probably why forums like this tend to help bridge the DIY communication gap better. Very few legit Bafang YouTube reviewers out there unfortunately.
While the CEF50'S warranty is only 3 years, sometimes an extended warranty can be purchased. I'll ask to see if they might consider an extra 2-year extension upgrade for an nominal additional fee. I encourage others to inquire if interested. The more that inquire, the higher the demand, the more likely it will happen. A 5-year warranty has nicer degree of confidence.
Frame weight comparisons. All have a fully integrated downtube battery that requires a burdensome motor drop technique. Sure it's not complex, but it's not quick either. I can drop my motor in/out in 30-45 mins. I don't do it often, so it could be faster, but I'm no race mechanic....so.
The big advantage of no large battery cut outs is both strength and loss of weight. Plus, less hardware mounting weight for a latch and cradle system found in the Relay (which looks super convenient and a great engineering feat). Orbea's Wild M-LTD race build claims a 900g/1.94 kb frame weight savings while calculating a 51% gain in overall stiffness frame integrity. The Wild in large with 38 forks and exo casing tires comes in at a mind-bending 46.5 lb/21.09 kg for a full-powered 85Nm motor...just WOW!
Unfortunately, frame weight is not listed.
The Forestal Siryon in the light-weight, mid-powered category where the large frame comes in at a claimed +/-5.29lb/2.4 kg. The travel is a bigger 170f/170r and is supported by this frame weight.
The Transition Relay frame weight isn't listed either, but in the heavy PNW build, it's estimated to be 44.5 lb/20.19+/- with large 38 fork/exo casing tires. The frame supports 170f/160r rear travel. Damn close to the CEF50'S specs of 170f/150r travel and their frame weight is supported.
The CEF50's frame in large is 5.32 lb./2.415 kg (scale weighing posted in this thread previously). Structural integrity is unknown, and frankly is the risk-to-reward tradeoff or relevant metaphor: the big, obvious issue that is politely not discussed, or simply the ignored elephant in the room.
Theoretically, after the 3-yr warranty expires, a new frame replacement would be another $800 USD. To get to the current cost of the lowest carbon build cost of the Siryon is $9,000 USD, you could spend 10 + years buying a new CEF50 frame replacement every year! So for me, the risk is mitigated, plus I get to outfit the build they way I want as several of my pricer components carry over from the past DIY build. (My carbon wheelset, my Transfer dropper, GX-axs drivetrain, and XT- brakes.)
Anyway, don't let the doubters and haters diminish your courage on purchasing the first batch of the CEF50 frames. I'm not! Besides, the doubt and hate is often based on ignorance (commonly willful), fear of the unknown, and frankly, just no-to-low due diligence.
And like-like (as close to as possible) comparisons are demonstrated here to give more informed contrasts, given the limited information.
Nutshell: I believe it's low risk (no field-testing) to a very high reward (cost savings performance). You'll have to make up your own mind however.
Consider these arguments. Many if not most high density carbon frames in the world are fabricated in mainland China, and the big brands use them! Orbea and Kelly appear to make theirs in their home countries, as well as a few obscure others.
What stands out is little to no field-testing and quality control...the DIY builds take a certain amount of courage to be among the first to spend precious resources on an untested product.
As others with previous DIY build can attest to, customer support really has improved after purchasing their products with some of the better-known Chinese frame manufacturers like DengFu and Light Carbon. RobRides really held the DengFu E10 frame accountable along with the Bafang m500 motor. He should be able to do the same the M820 LCE930 light weight build, as well.
Sure, I wish the frames could be lifetime warranty like Forestal, Transition, and Orbea, just to name a few. Their field-testing is unparalleled. Probably why forums like this tend to help bridge the DIY communication gap better. Very few legit Bafang YouTube reviewers out there unfortunately.
While the CEF50'S warranty is only 3 years, sometimes an extended warranty can be purchased. I'll ask to see if they might consider an extra 2-year extension upgrade for an nominal additional fee. I encourage others to inquire if interested. The more that inquire, the higher the demand, the more likely it will happen. A 5-year warranty has nicer degree of confidence.
Frame weight comparisons. All have a fully integrated downtube battery that requires a burdensome motor drop technique. Sure it's not complex, but it's not quick either. I can drop my motor in/out in 30-45 mins. I don't do it often, so it could be faster, but I'm no race mechanic....so.
The big advantage of no large battery cut outs is both strength and loss of weight. Plus, less hardware mounting weight for a latch and cradle system found in the Relay (which looks super convenient and a great engineering feat). Orbea's Wild M-LTD race build claims a 900g/1.94 kb frame weight savings while calculating a 51% gain in overall stiffness frame integrity. The Wild in large with 38 forks and exo casing tires comes in at a mind-bending 46.5 lb/21.09 kg for a full-powered 85Nm motor...just WOW!
Unfortunately, frame weight is not listed.The Forestal Siryon in the light-weight, mid-powered category where the large frame comes in at a claimed +/-5.29lb/2.4 kg. The travel is a bigger 170f/170r and is supported by this frame weight.
The Transition Relay frame weight isn't listed either, but in the heavy PNW build, it's estimated to be 44.5 lb/20.19+/- with large 38 fork/exo casing tires. The frame supports 170f/160r rear travel. Damn close to the CEF50'S specs of 170f/150r travel and their frame weight is supported.
The CEF50's frame in large is 5.32 lb./2.415 kg (scale weighing posted in this thread previously). Structural integrity is unknown, and frankly is the risk-to-reward tradeoff or relevant metaphor: the big, obvious issue that is politely not discussed, or simply the ignored elephant in the room.
Theoretically, after the 3-yr warranty expires, a new frame replacement would be another $800 USD. To get to the current cost of the lowest carbon build cost of the Siryon is $9,000 USD, you could spend 10 + years buying a new CEF50 frame replacement every year! So for me, the risk is mitigated, plus I get to outfit the build they way I want as several of my pricer components carry over from the past DIY build. (My carbon wheelset, my Transfer dropper, GX-axs drivetrain, and XT- brakes.)
Anyway, don't let the doubters and haters diminish your courage on purchasing the first batch of the CEF50 frames. I'm not! Besides, the doubt and hate is often based on ignorance (commonly willful), fear of the unknown, and frankly, just no-to-low due diligence.
And like-like (as close to as possible) comparisons are demonstrated here to give more informed contrasts, given the limited information. Nutshell: I believe it's low risk (no field-testing) to a very high reward (cost savings performance). You'll have to make up your own mind however.
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Stephen B
Member
TCFlowClyde
Active member
- Thread starter
- #643
It's the best one in my opinion.I got my quote today.
They are quoting me this display
DP C245.CAN
is this the right one?
a
Others please chime in which remote/display you're getting.
Last edited:
Stephen B
Member
$1845 matte black painted and shipped
What kind of shipping is DDP service
What kind of shipping is DDP service
Stephen B
Member
How did you pay?
Did you use Paypal?
Did you use Paypal?
Myalteregohamish
Active member
I used Apple Pay via the direct pay link.
Myalteregohamish
Active member
This is the one they quoted me also DP C245.CAN. Does it measure rider and motor output and/or matched wattage?It's t
It's the best one in my opinion.
Others please chime in which remote/display you're getting.
Myalteregohamish
Active member
The linkage is pretty different between the two. I imagine the leverage curve would be substantially different as well.Here's the Transition Relay. It has a similar shock set up. See how similar it's the CEF50'S? The rocker arm should push the rear shock out forward and down in a compression arc, clearing any friction points away from the seatpost. It looks to be an optical illusion.
If not Relay testers/reviewers like RobRides and others would have definitely said something. So, I think that boosts my confidence level a bit, and when I finally get the chance to toss on my fatter MegNeg air can as soon as my frame arrives... hopefully!
View attachment 109600
View attachment 109601
View attachment 109602
TCFlowClyde
Active member
- Thread starter
- #649
I have the previous C242 model black & white. It didn't have a power meter on it...just the basics. I believe the C245 is the same...just color and smaller and actually fits both 35 and 31.8 hb clamp size.
TCFlowClyde
Active member
- Thread starter
- #650
We're talking just about clearance of the aircan during compression from the actual seat tube near the mount...not spring rates or leverage curves. It looks like there might have been contact but it's a visual distortion. It should clear the front part of the seat tube.
TCFlowClyde
Active member
- Thread starter
- #651
PayPal for sure but via direct Alibaba paylink...I think...it was 3 months ago.
TCFlowClyde
Active member
- Thread starter
- #652
Here's my request to Linda about buying a 2 yrs extended warranty option.DIY Frame warranty: elephant-in-the-room? Mentioned here in recent previous threads is the CEF50'S light-weight frame. And the 3-year frame warranty. Most of us buying direct consumer or DIY carbon builds acknowledge that quality control lacks, support lacks, and warranty lacks compared to the big brands.
Consider these arguments. Many and most high density carbon frames in the world are fabricated in mainland China, and the big brands use them! Orbea and Kelly appear to make theirs in their home countries, as well as a few obscure others.
What stands out is little to no field-testing and quality control...the DIY builds take a certain amount of courage to be among the first to spend precious resources on an untested product.
As others with previous DIY build can attest to, customer support really has improved after purchasing their products with some of the better-known Chinese frame manufacturers like DengFu and Light Carbon. RobRides really held the DengFu E10 frame accountable along with the Bafang m500 motor. He should be able to do the same the M820 LCE930 light weight build, as well.
Sure, I wish the frames could be lifetime warranty like Forestal, Transition, and Orbea, just to name a few. Their field-testing is unparalleled. Probably why forums like this tend to help bridge the DIY communication gap better. Very few legit Bafang YouTube reviewers out there unfortunately.
While the CEF50'S warranty is only 3 years, sometimes an extended warranty can be purchased. I'll ask to see if they might consider an extra 2-year extension upgrade for an nominal additional fee. I encourage others to inquire if interested. The more that inquire, the higher the demand, the more likely it will happen. A 5-year warranty has nicer degree of confidence.
Frame weight comparisons. All have a fully integrated downtube battery that requires a burdensome motor drop technique. Sure it's not complex, but it's not quick either. I can drop my motor in/out in 30-45 mins. I don't do it often, so it could be faster, but I'm no race mechanic....so.
The big advantage of no large battery cut outs is both strength and loss of weight. Plus, less hardware mounting weight for a latch and cradle system found in the Relay (which looks super convenient and a great engineering feat). Orbea's Wild M-LTD race build claims a 900g/1.94 kb frame weight savings while calculating a 51% gain in overall stiffness frame integrity. The Wild in large with 38 forks and exo casing tires comes in at a mind-bending 46.5 lb/21.09 kg for a full-powered 85Nm motor...just WOW!
The Forestal Siryon in the light-weight, mid-powered category where the large frame comes in at a claimed +/-5.29lb/2.4 kg. The travel is a bigger 170f/170r and is supported by this frame weight.
The Transition Relay frame weight isn't listed either, but in the heavy PNW build, it's estimated to be 44.5 lb/20.19+/- with large 38 fork/exo casing tires. The frame supports 170f/160r rear travel. Damn close to the CEF50'S specs of 170f/150r travel and their frame weight is supported.
The CEF50's frame in large is 5.32 lb./2.415 kg (scale weighing posted in this thread previously). Structural integrity is unknown, and frankly is the risk-to-reward tradeoff or relevant metaphor: the big, obvious issue that is politely not discussed, or simply the ignored elephant in the room.
Theoretically, after the 3-yr warranty expires, a new frame replacement would be another $800 USD. To get to the current cost of the lowest carbon build cost of the Siryon is $9,000 USD, you could spend 10 + years buying a new CEF50 frame replacement every year! So for me, the risk is mitigated, plus I get to outfit the build they way I want as several of my pricer components carry over from the past DIY build. (My carbon wheelset, my Transfer dropper, GX-axs drivetrain, and XT- brakes.)
Anyway, don't let the doubters and haters diminish your courage on purchasing the first batch of the CEF50 frames. I'm not! Besides, the doubt and hate is often based on ignorance (commonly willful), fear of the unknown, and frankly, just no-to-low due diligence.
Nutshell: I believe it's low risk (no field-testing) to a very high reward (cost savings performance). You'll have to make up your own mind however.
If you look on BAFANGS catalog you can see the different HMI displays available. I asked for the DPC245.can because it it smaller and mounts under the bars like my Orbea Rise. I don't want a big display on top of the bars or a big chunky assist remote.
temon10
Well-known member
I hope M820 walk mode have more power than M510. All M series i have tested walk mode is too slow compared to Shimano or Bosch.
TCFlowClyde
Active member
- Thread starter
- #655
M600 walk mode was weak ass too...almost useless except to change a gear while standing in place.
But my bigger M620 motor is almost the opposite...too strong!
temon10
Well-known member
right M600/M500/M510 walk mode too weak and useless. And we dont have option to change via Besst tool either. Proper walk made have advantage when uphill couldn't pedal the bike.M600 walk mode was weak ass too...almost useless except to change a gear while standing in place.
But my bigger M620 motor is almost the opposite...too strong!
M500 walk mode works nice (with firmware CRX10NC4813i142015.8-28-2230-20210805).
M510 walk mode is useless
Stephen B
Member
I am going Electric so I never have to walk again
TCFlowClyde
Active member
- Thread starter
- #659
Good news if you want an extended frame warranty. Linda said an extra year of warranty will cost $80 USD per year.
I bought two more for $160.
I feel that 5 years for a total warranty will give me more confidence in case of frame break potential not under crash conditions.
Hopes this helps if some are worried about frame integrity.
Contact Linda for details if interested.
I bought two more for $160.
I feel that 5 years for a total warranty will give me more confidence in case of frame break potential not under crash conditions.
Hopes this helps if some are worried about frame integrity.
Contact Linda for details if interested.
Stephen B
Member
My order is paid now the big waiting game begins!
How many people here are waiting on orders now?
How many people here are waiting on orders now?
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