SZZS specific CEF50-main thread (initial builds and troubleshooting related only)

[Suns_PSD]

Could you clarify what that specific battery is?

Thanks.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Finally...L-frame (19')+/- 2.47 kg/5.45 lbs.

Trust but verify...

Now I have to weigh all my bling, and kick in a few extra motor mounting bolts and headset + stem spacers, cables/housing etc. and that should be the full build prediction. If i got to 45 lbs w/out sealant and pedals...I'll be a happy camper.

I recommend holding off on the other frame weight requests...this took 2 weeks of multiple requests to get. Don't want to burn out Linda running tasks that might create more delays for the engineering team than necessary.
View attachment 108686

Impressive weight. Would be nice to have a frame + battery + motor + controller + crank weights. With that, for instance, I could tell you exactly what using my current parts the completed bike would weigh.

 

[Suns_PSD]

The frame's mounting hardware I'm using is 8 x 22.2 for both upper/lower eyelet.

Large- frame weight: I think they didn't include the rear axle and derailleur hanger mounting hardware, so add another couple hundred grams.

That takes the CEF50 large just below a large size Orbea Wild LTD '23 at 2.69 kg/5.9 lbs according to this Pink Bike article last November. 🫣 Not say'n it's Orbea-built carbon fiber quality but it's just a reference point to lightest full-powered, yet very expensive rig.

Makes me wonder if my CEF50 M820-75Nm 720 Wh build could be called a "higher mid-powered, heavier light-weight build"...yipes that doesn't resonate well!
View attachment 108698

I think a mid power ebike really has the option to run normal bike parts, where-as a full power needs the larger battery, heavier drive train, heavier tires & so on. So there is weight in that.

Also, the Bafang M820 (at least the Forestal version) is quite high powered. If you had the large battery, you should be able to run with the full powered bikes.

Are my notes correct that the entire weight difference between the 410w & the 710 W is only 1.54#s, or did that turn out to be be incorrect?

 

[mike_kelly]

Could you clarify what that specific battery is?

Thanks.

If you scroll up this thread there is a page from the Bafang catalog with battery info. There are apparently two batteries that fit the CEF50 downtube from Bafang.
36v 360whr BT F100.b360.c and the
43v 410whr BT F014.410.c

 

[TCFlowClyde]

CEF50 720 Wh Enduro Burly Build--large 19"
(180 ZEB fork/165 ish RS Ultimate MegNeg)

Updated: (never crunch numbers while drunk)

Here it is! Oh wow! 46.7 lbs/21.18 kg

Here's how. (All measurements are confirmed scaled weights*)

*Wheelset is carbon with 220 mm Hope rotors front/back.
-Rear wheel is an Onxy 36 spoke hub (steel driver body) with a full steel Nx hub
12 spd) + tire 27.5x2.8 Maxxis Exo plus (60TPI)
-Front wheel is I9 32 spoke hub + tire 27.5x3.0 Maxxis Exo plus (60 TPI)

 

[mike_kelly]

Stans Sealant is only about 60g per wheel. Typo? Makes a big difference.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Stans Sealant is only about 60g per wheel. Typo? Makes a big difference.

Oops yep typo...also I forgot 532 g for AXS GX mech+shifter.

 

[mike_kelly]

I am going for the lightweight record
39.9 lbs baby

 

[TCFlowClyde]

CEF50 720 Wh Enduro Burly Build--large 19"
(180 ZEB fork/165 ish RS Ultimate MegNeg)

Updated: (never crunch numbers while drunk)

Here it is! Oh wow! 46.7 lbs/21.18 kg

Here's how. (All measurements are confirmed scaled weights*)
View attachment 108732

*Wheelset is carbon with 220 mm Hope rotors front/back.
-Rear wheel is an Onxy 36 spoke hub (steel driver body) with a full steel Nx hub
12 spd) + tire 27.5x2.8 Maxxis Exo plus (60TPI)
-Front wheel is I9 32 spoke hub + tire 27.5x3.0 Maxxis Exo plus (60 TPI)

My full-powered LCES04 160f/155r travel, 450Wh battery weighs in wet at 55.2 lbs.

Conclusion: full-powered 55.2 lbs - 48.85 lbs mid-powered =

- 6.35 lbs weight difference to shed.

Goal: I was hoping for a 8-10 lbs weight loss! I came up short by 1.65 lbs.🫣

Now I remember my forks are Wren 36, so I might drop another 250 g because the Zeb 38 weighs more. So, I would get back another .56 lbs? Now I'm only a pound short?


I'll have to see if I was off in my calculations with an official full-bike-build weighing. So, to be determined at a later date.

In a nutshell: I lose 7lbs for agility and gain Enduro travel plush but lose power with low max torque at M820-75 Nm motor to M600-100+Nm motor...but gain 350 Wh in battery in range. And I can ditch my spare 450 Wh (3 kg/6.61 lbs) battery in my backpack and reduce my overall riding load by another 6.61 lbs...so that net loss while riding is -13.61 lbs off! That's actually a relevant win in my case! So woohoo?

 

[brbr]

I am going for the lightweight record
39.9 lbs baby

Which fork / shock?
I should be at 18.9kg on the lce930, which should be around the same components with the weight difference on the frame.
I go for a revelation 160mm weighted at 1893gr.
Still hesitating on the wheels, I don’t have the budget for carbon wheelset yet, so cheap alloy it will be!

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Hells yeah! I got it. I found 464 g off the original dry weight. It's mainly the cassette and dropper + saddle switch out. The 12 spd cassette is a zitto light steel that saves 220 g for only $85.

So, new overall total = 20,715 g/45.68 lbs!

 

[stuff]

Based on those numbers I could aim for a 18k build.

Pike ultimate 1850g
410w battery
Full xt drivertrain
1600g carbon wheelset
Lighter crank arms (need to find some)
120g saddle (aliexpress)
Oneup 180mm dropper
Mountain king / trail king tires
Renthal carbon handlebar
Etc.

Hope Linda sends me everything next week

 

[savas]

Guys very interested to know what the max wattage of the motor is.No one is saying this, saw some graphs showing around the m500 and stated wattage around 450,but we know m500 can do more.
My dengfu with m510 is around 22 kg and 850wh battery

 

[temon10]

Guys very interested to know what the max wattage of the motor is.No one is saying this, saw some graphs showing around the m500 and stated wattage around 450,but we know m500 can do more.
My dengfu with m510 is around 22 kg and 850wh battery

still a mistery untill someone first ride. so who's gonna be the first rider???

 

[TCFlowClyde]

still a mistery untill someone first ride. so who's gonna be the first rider???

I think my order will be held up longer than many others due to waiting for their in-house 720Wh battery build and test...so I look forward to others that report first on peak wattage or at least power delivery in elevation gain...the big turbo/rocky mode feature is what most of us are waiting for.

For Rocky mode: How much in peak wattage? For what duration? Is it instant, or delayed with a frustrating 4+ second ramp up (I hope not!) . This would be especially be useful in comparison to the Shimano RS60 mid-powered tune, and of course, the big boy M510 full-powered!

Hopefully Rob Rides will get a chance to review the LC build very soon!

For schedule setbacks, I think most of the delays are due to Bafang shipping out M820 motor kits. I'm sure Linda's team is sorting it out as they best they can...they usually just make the frames. But I anticipate shipping from Linda for my order: L-frame, 36V motor, 720Wh, to be no sooner than April 1st week. Then another 2-3 weeks to see delivery to my door. So, another month likely for me!🫣

 

[Suns_PSD]

If you scroll up this thread there is a page from the Bafang catalog with battery info. There are apparently two batteries that fit the CEF50 downtube from Bafang.
36v 360whr BT F100.b360.c and the
43v 410whr BT F014.410.c

Sorry, but I'm sort of asking you for clarification because you are our resident expert.

Bafang has the 720 battery listed as 3.8 kgs
You have the 720 battery listed as 4.06 kgs. Is the hardware the .26 kg weight difference and should be applied to all published battery weights?
Bafang has the 410 battery listed as 2.6 kgs
AND, I have written in my notes that Linda had showed a photos of their custom 710 battery weighing only 3.3 kgs.

Can you clarify what is correct? thanks

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Sorry, but I'm sort of asking you for clarification because you are our resident expert.

Bafang has the 720 battery listed as 3.8 kgs
You have the 720 battery listed as 4.06 kgs. Is the hardware the .26 kg weight difference and should be applied to all published battery weights?
Bafang has the 410 battery listed as 2.6 kgs
AND, I have written in my notes that Linda had showed a photos of their custom 710 battery weighing only 3.3 kgs.

Can you clarify what is correct? thanks

 

[Suns_PSD]

CEF50 720 Wh Enduro Burly Build--large 19"
(180 ZEB fork/165 ish RS Ultimate MegNeg)

Updated: (never crunch numbers while drunk)

Here it is! Oh wow! 46.7 lbs/21.18 kg

Here's how. (All measurements are confirmed scaled weights*)
View attachment 108732

*Wheelset is carbon with 220 mm Hope rotors front/back.
-Rear wheel is an Onxy 36 spoke hub (steel driver body) with a full steel Nx hub
12 spd) + tire 27.5x2.8 Maxxis Exo plus (60TPI)
-Front wheel is I9 32 spoke hub + tire 27.5x3.0 Maxxis Exo plus (60 TPI)

First, ALWAYS calculate while drunk.

Secondly, I have a high end but totally robust SJEvo S5 that I would strip for this build, if I go this way (about 50/ 50). This bike has Trickstuff brakes, 11 speed drivetrain, Eewing cranks, Berd spokes on custom wheels, etc, good shock, Mezzer fork, DH rated rear rim, etc.

My Sj Evo weighs 31.27#s/ 14.21 kgs and this weight is ready to ride, even includes 1# of tools and parts on board.

That frame weighs 2.85 kgs (no shock), the cranks weigh 400 grams, and the BB weighs 112 grams.

So current total bike weight is 14.21 KGs, subtract out frame/ cranks/ BB to get the rest of my build and I get 10.85 kgs for the remainder of my build kit.

I would reuse my same shock. I would ditch the remote. I'd run an XL frame. I'd definitely locate some lighter cranks.

So I get:

1) My build kit 10.85 kgs
2) Rounding up for XL frame 2.650 kgs
3) Motor 2.340
4) 410 Battery 2.6 kgs. Will add .26 kgs for mounting kit.
5) .05 kgs for frame display only.
6) cranks are .465 kgs
7) I'm going to run a heavier rear tire on my e-bike so add .3 kgs for that.

I'm getting 19.515 kgs or 42.93#s. That weight once again includes my inserts front and rear, good tires, tools, pedals, etc...

That's a good weight. If you removed my tools and inserts, as others might ride, you'd be right at 41#s.

 

[Suns_PSD]

BTW, the Forestal has a special Mag casing Ti shaft version of this motor that reportedly weighs .35 kgs less the standard unit. Truthfully, I question that info but that's what they say.

 

[mike_kelly]

Which fork / shock?
I should be at 18.9kg on the lce930, which should be around the same components with the weight difference on the frame.
I go for a revelation 160mm weighted at 1893gr.
Still hesitating on the wheels, I don’t have the budget for carbon wheelset yet, so cheap alloy it will be!

My fork s a Fox 34 factory at 1790g.
For wheels:
I would recommend princessbike123 on ebay. I took a chance a few years ago and tried her rims. They have turned out to be good quality and durable. I have built three sets of wheels. Her rims only cost delivered about $150 which is the same price as many aluminum rims like the Duroc. Be sure to indicate the number of holes you want, her default is 28 hole.

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/spank-hex-j-type-boost-e-plus-rear-hub/rp-prod208683

I used Spank e-Hex hubs which are also a very good bargain for high engagement hubs.

On sale now at CR.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

BTW, the Forestal has a special Mag casing Ti shaft version of this motor that reportedly weighs .35 kgs less the standard unit. Truthfully, I question that info but that's what they say.

Yep checks out! But 60Nm vs 75Nm...most of us will willingly tradeoff .35 kgs for the latter.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

First, ALWAYS calculate while drunk.

Secondly, I have a high end but totally robust SJEvo S5 that I would strip for this build, if I go this way (about 50/ 50). This bike has Trickstuff brakes, 11 speed drivetrain, Eewing cranks, Berd spokes on custom wheels, etc, good shock, Mezzer fork, DH rated rear rim, etc.

My Sj Evo weighs 31.27#s/ 14.21 kgs and this weight is ready to ride, even includes 1# of tools and parts on board.

That frame weighs 2.85 kgs (no shock), the cranks weigh 400 grams, and the BB weighs 112 grams.

So current total bike weight is 14.21 KGs, subtract out frame/ cranks/ BB to get the rest of my build and I get 10.85 kgs for the remainder of my build kit.

I would reuse my same shock. I would ditch the remote. I'd run an XL frame. I'd definitely locate some lighter cranks.

So I get:

1) My build kit 10.85 kgs
2) Rounding up for XL frame 2.650 kgs
3) Motor 2.340
4) 410 Battery 2.6 kgs. Will add .26 kgs for mounting kit.
5) .05 kgs for frame display only.
6) cranks are .465 kgs
7) I'm going to run a heavier rear tire on my e-bike so add .3 kgs for that.

I'm getting 19.515 kgs or 42.93#s. That weight once again includes my inserts front and rear, good tires, tools, pedals, etc...

That's a good weight. If you removed my tools and inserts, as others might ride, you'd be right at 41#s.

Sorry dude you must be drunk. I don't follow what you're stating clearly. You're hoping to build a 41 lb CEF50?...that should be achievable.

 

[mike_kelly]

Sorry, but I'm sort of asking you for clarification because you are our resident expert.

Bafang has the 720 battery listed as 3.8 kgs
You have the 720 battery listed as 4.06 kgs. Is the hardware the .26 kg weight difference and should be applied to all published battery weights?
Bafang has the 410 battery listed as 2.6 kgs
AND, I have written in my notes that Linda had showed a photos of their custom 710 battery weighing only 3.3 kgs.

Can you clarify what is correct? thanks

Bafang does not make a 720whr battery that fits this frame downtube only a 360wh and a 410whr. Zhaosheng has contracted a third party to make the 720whr battery that TC is getting.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Bafang does not make a 720whr battery that fits this frame downtube only a 360wh and a 410whr. Zhaosheng has contracted a third party to make the 710whr battery that TC is getting.

Linda kept referring to at as 720 in-house....I know their geo diagram shows 710 but I want to err on bigger capacity if possible. But we'll see, maybe the extra 10wh is the hidden reserve for Rocky mode?

 

[mike_kelly]

Corrected to 720whr

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Corrected to 720whr

View attachment 108832
[/QUOTES

See now I'm getting lazy. I just met my 45ish lbs build goal and I'm mentally dissociating...ready to build and ride but is long 30 days away unfortunately

 

[LAnton]

Based on those numbers I could aim for a 18k build.

Pike ultimate 1850g
410w battery
Full xt drivertrain
1600g carbon wheelset
Lighter crank arms (need to find some)
120g saddle (aliexpress)
Oneup 180mm dropper
Mountain king / trail king tires
Renthal carbon handlebar
Etc.

Hope Linda sends me everything next week

Spare parts came to reduce the weight

 

[temon10]

Linda just confirm that there's a delay on battery. Estimated time ready to ship in 2 weeks.

 

[mike_kelly]

Linda just confirm that there's a delay on battery. Estimated time ready to ship in 2 weeks.

720whr battery?

 

[TCFlowClyde]

My fork s a Fox 34 factory at 1790g.
For wheels:
I would recommend princessbike123 on ebay. I took a chance a few years ago and tried her rims. They have turned out to be good quality and durable. I have built three sets of wheels. Her rims only cost delivered about $150 which is the same price as many aluminum rims like the Duroc. Be sure to indicate the number of holes you want, her default is 28 hole.
View attachment 108813
View attachment 108814

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/spank-hex-j-type-boost-e-plus-rear-hub/rp-prod208683

I used Spank e-Hex hubs which are also a very good bargain for high engagement hubs.
View attachment 108815
On sale now at CR.

Shoot, already sold out...Spank has been picking up their game last few years.

But needed a 36H boost for my little analogue dirt mtb jumper bike in order to practice my hopping skills in my backyard for better E-mtb trail fun.

Unfortunately, only Hope, Hadley, and Onxy still make a 36 spoke option for us heavy Clyde-riders...somewhat pricey, very pricey, and outlandishly pricey. I can't afford those in my budget.

I think Spank only does 28/32 hole.