Assembly frame LightCarbon LCE971 bafang M510 (By Denver)

[Sayonara]

Okay, I understand a little better now, and you do have some experience in the world of cycling, so your personal reasoning seems sound to me. It's true that if having a throttle is essential for you, the M560 seems like a better choice.

And regarding the battery for your usage, I think you're right to opt for a larger battery.

Yes, perhaps I got a bit carried away with 28 kg, but what I meant by that is that it won't be feather-light. When I mentioned this weight, it's because in my mind, it went like this:

My bike 23kg
Difference between LCE971 and E82 frame +500g?
Motor +400g
Battery +800g
FOX 38 +300g
Float X2 +200g
DH tire + 700g
Panzer + 220g
Sealant + 200g
Total: 26.3kg
And for this weight, it's still concerning my bike, which has been optimized for weight, with all titanium screws, lightweight axles, custom cables, titanium saddle, carbon wheels, carbon handlebars... That's why I said around 28 kg.

As for routing cables through the headset, if it's done properly by the person doing the assembly, it's very neat and functional. I saw someone on the threads
E82 Dengfu frame now available
complaining that turning the handlebars changed gears, but that's simply because they didn't route the cables correctly.

And yes, Camelback (the EVOC bags are fantastic), I also use it very often. I sometimes use a water bottle, but only for short rides.

Thanks for the link; I wasn't aware that there was good progress on the M560. I'll keep an eye on that; it interests me. It might be worth being patient and waiting for the release of this motor.

I can't provide feedback on the new Charger 3 charger regarding the forks, but I do have the Super Deluxe Ultimate

So I've only ridden 150km with this shock, and for now, I can say it does its job. I'm still in the tuning phase, but from what I can tell, it seems to have good progression with good sensitivity at the beginning of the stroke. You have to consider the frame's kinematics as well. So there might still be a slight difference in behavior depending on the frame and especially the settings.

And it's true that RockShox is much easier to use than Fox... When I look at the settings on my Fox 36, it's like a maze .

View attachment 138718

And based on what you're describing about your riding style, I'm not sure if you really need a Zeb. I think a Lyrik could suit you; however, if you go for an E82 with 170mm of rear travel, you won't be able to have 150mm or 160mm upfront. You'll need a longer yoke and reduce the rear travel. But again, based on how you describe your riding style, I don't think it would be a problem whether you're at 150 or 160mm of travel.

Yeah throttle is mandatory for my enjoyment as I see it. But I'm not sure yet if I should choose m560 500w or 750w if only downside of 750w is noise then I see no reason to not choose it.

I think smaller battery could be fine but the bigger one 100% sure will. That's basically my reasoning. As well as that as battery ages it loses capacity.

Yeah those weights make sense. But what is Panzer?

Yeah I can see the headset cableling working but if you get it done perfectly the only(?) benefit is cleaner cockpit look. Alot for risks and work just to achieve that. Especially in my use when I have to remove the battery everytime I'm not riding it (during work day and general storage in my appartment with other neighbors). That's why I prefer the holes near headset.

Yeah, I don't see benefit for me in Fox's more complicated settings since I don't have the skills to enjoy those features and even if I did they offer no benefit to me in my riding where as simpler self maintenance is a massive bonus and saves alot of money in a long run.

Yes, I agree. 150/150 travel would most likely work for me but if my hobby continues to progress like it has I fear I will soon regret of not getting the 170 Zeb. On top of that the E82 has softer headtube angle and the bigger battery. So basically in my current opinion the E82 is more future proof for my use even if not ideal for current use. If the LCE971 had possibility for bigger battery I think I would choose it. Though saving about 1,5kg with that frame and smaller battery is very tempting

Could you explain why yoke wears shock out faster? Does the force during travel of the shock come weighted on one side and that wears the shock out faster than normally?

Edit: I checked my battery and it's 840wh. 48v 17,5Ah. The LCE971 battery is 720Wh. 120wh less than my current battery and E82 battery is 1008Wh.

 

[Denver]

That’s great work. Thank you. Mine painted blue.

View attachment 138723 View attachment 138724

Thank you so much for accepting my request.
So I'm reposting my comment as well .

Wow, it looks great in blue !
Are you happy with this bike ?

 

[Denver]

Yeah throttle is mandatory for my enjoyment as I see it. But I'm not sure yet if I should choose m560 500w or 750w if only downside of 750w is noise then I see no reason to not choose it.

I think smaller battery could be fine but the bigger one 100% sure will. That's basically my reasoning. As well as that as battery ages it loses capacity.

Yeah those weights make sense. But what is Panzer?

Yeah I can see the headset cableling working but if you get it done perfectly the only(?) benefit is cleaner cockpit look. Alot for risks and work just to achieve that. Especially in my use when I have to remove the battery everytime I'm not riding it (during work day and general storage in my appartment with other neighbors). That's why I prefer the holes near headset.

Yeah, I don't see benefit for me in Fox's more complicated settings since I don't have the skills to enjoy those features and even if I did they offer no benefit to me in my riding where as simpler self maintenance is a massive bonus and saves alot of money in a long run.

Yes, I agree. 150/150 travel would most likely work for me but if my hobby continues to progress like it has I fear I will soon regret of not getting the 170 Zeb. On top of that the E82 has softer headtube angle and the bigger battery. So basically in my current opinion the E82 is more future proof for my use even if not ideal for current use. If the LCE971 had possibility for bigger battery I think I would choose it. Though saving about 1,5kg with that frame and smaller battery is very tempting

Could you explain why yoke wears shock out faster? Does the force during travel of the shock come weighted on one side and that wears the shock out faster than normally?

Edit: I checked my battery and it's 840wh. 48v 17,5Ah. The LCE971 battery is 720Wh. 120wh less than my current battery and E82 battery is 1008Wh.

Indeed, batteries lose capacity as they age.
If you'd like an example, I can provide you with the capacity loss of the battery (670wh) in my Frey AM1000 EX.
Currently, the bike has reached 2478 km over 1.5 years.
The last capacity test I conducted showed 93% out of the 100% measured when the battery had 7km.

100% 620.9wh / 100 = 6.209
575.9wh /6.209 = 92.75% Capacity

I know that this loss has been moderate due to my usage and the conditioning of the battery when I wasn't using the bike. It's clear that if I had used the motor at its full power all the time, I would have experienced a capacity loss that I think would have exceeded 10%.

Panzer protections are inserts placed inside the tires to prevent pinch flats and limit rim destruction during excessively harsh impacts. They also provide additional lateral support, allowing for slightly lower tire pressure and better traction on rough terrain.

PANZER ENDURO – PANZER

ridepanzer.com

And you are somewhat right about the cable routing through the headset. The advantage is mainly aesthetic...

I think if you really need a large battery, the E82 is a good candidate. Although the geometry is very similar to the LCE971, I find it hard to compare with the LCE971 because I can't find any suspension simulation diagrams like LightCarbon does, and that's a real shame...

Regarding the "Yoke," the problem is very pronounced when a shock with a trunnion mount is attached to the frame with a yoke; this creates too much lateral stiffness, so there's not enough play, which affects the shock. There's also the issue that the yoke increases the leverage arm at the plunger, increasing stress on the shock.

In the end, we can say that a yoke leads to more regular maintenance intervals, more frequent repairs, and premature shock wear.

Here's a video from Vorsprung that talks about it more precisely ;

 

[Sayonara]

Indeed, batteries lose capacity as they age.
If you'd like an example, I can provide you with the capacity loss of the battery (670wh) in my Frey AM1000 EX.
Currently, the bike has reached 2478 km over 1.5 years.
The last capacity test I conducted showed 93% out of the 100% measured when the battery had 7km.

View attachment 138769 View attachment 138770

100% 620.9wh / 100 = 6.209
575.9wh /6.209 = 92.75% Capacity

I know that this loss has been moderate due to my usage and the conditioning of the battery when I wasn't using the bike. It's clear that if I had used the motor at its full power all the time, I would have experienced a capacity loss that I think would have exceeded 10%.

Panzer protections are inserts placed inside the tires to prevent pinch flats and limit rim destruction during excessively harsh impacts. They also provide additional lateral support, allowing for slightly lower tire pressure and better traction on rough terrain.

PANZER ENDURO – PANZER

ridepanzer.com

And you are somewhat right about the cable routing through the headset. The advantage is mainly aesthetic...

I think if you really need a large battery, the E82 is a good candidate. Although the geometry is very similar to the LCE971, I find it hard to compare with the LCE971 because I can't find any suspension simulation diagrams like LightCarbon does, and that's a real shame...

Regarding the "Yoke," the problem is very pronounced when a shock with a trunnion mount is attached to the frame with a yoke; this creates too much lateral stiffness, so there's not enough play, which affects the shock. There's also the issue that the yoke increases the leverage arm at the plunger, increasing stress on the shock.

In the end, we can say that a yoke leads to more regular maintenance intervals, more frequent repairs, and premature shock wear.

Here's a video from Vorsprung that talks about it more precisely ;

Thanks for the battery info! Based on that I'm leaning more towards the E82.

Ahh Panzer is a tyre insert like crush core. I just hadn't heard that brand before. I've been riding with tubes with zero punctures so far so I have not found the need to test out tubeless setup.

I think someone posted some suspension graphs in the E82 thread?
This comment has them in attachement, not sure if there are more. Post in thread 'E82 Dengfu frame now available' E82 Dengfu frame now available

Is the problem with trunnion shocks only? Because I think E82 takes normal shock and not trunnion.

If only I had personal experience about "proper" ebike motor similar to m560. That way I would know if the smaller battery would be okey... because if it is then the saved weight would be huge benefit on top of arguably better suspension design.

 

[Denver]

Great review about this frame, awesome job to improve this bike.
I agree with you Denver on lot off things.
Yoke is not the right geometry part for enduro bike, when you discuss with suspension mechanic guy he said it is the worst idea on MTB
Secondly, I prefer to play with my bike on trail and choose the best line instead to have a big travel on my suspension and go strait

Merci
Yes, I also find it preferable to have a bike that is more agile due to its geometry and reduced travel rather than a large enduro bike. it's so more fun

 

[Sayonara]

@Denver thoughts on the E82's suspension graphs?

 

[Denver]

@Denver des réflexions sur les graphiques de suspension du E82 ?

Yes, I can tell you what I think about it.

If we look at the E82's geometry in a general aspect and compare it to that of the LCE971, we can say that the E82's geometry is slightly more oriented towards enduro.

The rider's positioning is slightly more rearward, which can be an advantage for downhill riding.

The head angle is also more enduro-oriented, at 64° compared to 64.5° for the LCE971. But be careful , just because the angle is 64° doesn't mean it's better than 64.5°. The entire geometry and rear suspension kinematics must be taken into account. The best way to determine how a frame behaves is through real-world testing.

The bottom bracket height relative to the ground is 10 mm higher than that of the LCE971. However, the motor position is different. Therefore, the rider's center of gravity is higher for the E82, resulting in less stability. On the other hand, this frame will be less prone to hitting obstacles at the motor level, so it will have better obstacle clearance. Is this a good compromise? Honestly, I'm not sure. The majority of frames currently available are more similar to the LCE971 than the E82.

As for the E82's rear chainstay length (455mm), it's 5 mm shorter than the LCE971's (460mm). This difference is minimal, and I'm not sure if it would be noticeable on the frame. Nevertheless, I do have a preference for shorter chainstays, and if it were up to me, I would opt for a chainstay length of 455mm/450mm (for size "M"). if I wanted a bit more playful feel, I would opt for a 450mm rear base. However, the 460mm offers a good stability experience and, in my opinion, a very good compromise for a light all-mountain/enduro setup. Personally, I wouldn't go below 445mm for an e-bike. The Scor 4060, for example, has a very short chainstay length (436mm), making it very playful but less stable and challenging on climbs as it tends to lift quickly. I think 436mm is too extreme for a chainstay length.

You might be wondering what I think about the frame's suspension kinematics. However, it's going to be difficult to answer that question, and I'll tell you why. This is also one of the reasons why I didn't choose Dengfu and opted for LightCarbon because their "Spirit" seems better to me.

I did find the rear suspension simulation graphs (thank you Sayonara ) , but I'm having trouble analyzing them.

There are several inconsistencies that prevent a proper understanding of these graphs.

Data such as fork length and offset are missing. Therefore, it's impossible to determine the fork's trail (which is interesting and important for understanding part of the bike's behavior).
.

Typically, if a frame is designed with 150mm/150mm of travel, it's acceptable to increase the front travel by 10mm because it minimally affects the overall bike behavior and won't be negative; it will simply be different (more stable). However, going beyond 10mm more (e.g., 150mm/170mm), the geometry changes significantly, and the behavior changes too much, which can be counterproductive.

Additionally, they indicate 170mm of rear travel for sale.

However, the graphs were created with a 55mm shock, resulting in a total travel of 150mm (according to the graphs).

It's also worth noting the use of "E11" instead of "E82" in the graphs, which naturally raises the question of whether these graphs correspond to this frame.

If Dengfu is listening, I would appreciate it if they could provide detailed information on the graph below.

From my analysis, these are measurements taken with the bike at a 20% rear sag and 0% front sag. However, if the front fork sag is at 0%, we can infer that a 560mm fork length corresponds to a 29" fork with 150mm of travel. So, you might say that it's an "indicative" graph, but it's available in the "E82 pdf" document, and if this information is incorrect, it shouldn't be in that document.

So, to summarize: It's a frame oriented towards enduro (due to its geometry), sold with 170mm of rear travel, and therefore (logically) 170mm at the front too. But according to the graphs, it was designed and dimensioned for 150mm rear and 150mm front travel.

For my part, I'm not sure where I stand on this... What I mean is that if you buy this frame for its 170mm of travel, you won't be able to know exactly how the bike behaves and its exact geometry.

Additionally, although it's a detail, it seems odd to me to advertise an enduro bike with a trail shock (RockShox Deluxe) and "trail" tires (Maxxis Rekon). By the way, these tires are a disaster, so don't buy them.
At some point, you have to stand by your decisions, and if you're making an enduro bike, you need to equip it accordingly, even if the components are expensive... And if the company doesn't have the means to equip a frame with enduro components to take promotional photos, they should wait for a buyer to purchase the frame and take photos for them to use on the website.

I'd also like to address the "Yoke."

The best way to have the most problems is: "Yoke" + "trunnion" shock. Here, there's no "trunnion", which is already a good point. However, there are three sizes of "yoke" (90mm, 70mm, 50mm), and the longer the "yoke", the greater the leverage on the shock stroke. If you're really using your bike for what it's meant for (enduro), I wouldn't bet on your shock's longevity... Especially if you're using a "trail" shock.

Here, the shock absorber shows scratches (probably due to lack of maintenance).
Having a yoke exacerbates this phenomenon if:

Of course, other problems arise from it. It's one among others...
So with a "yoke", you need to be diligent about maintenance intervals (even considering more frequent servicing) to try to limit this phenomenon.

So, as you can see, we can't rely on the graph because it doesn't accurately represent what's being sold. If you use a 45mm shock with a 90mm "yoke" (what is that, 140mm of travel?), you won't have the same kinematics as with a 50mm "yoke" and a 60mm shock.

Ultimately, if you buy this frame, you won't know (at the moment) what you're buying.

You may have noticed that I pay particular attention to what a manufacturer gives us as information, and it's not for nothing that I chose LightCarbon over Dengfu.

How do you expect to know what you're buying if they themselves don't even know what they're selling...

By the way, Toray T800 or T700?

You have 4 hours...

 

[Sayonara]

@Denver Wow.. Thank you for taking the time and explaining your thoughts! I really appreciate it! I'm learning so much!

You are making really good points! One reason for these mistakes could be that the E82 has not yet been officially launched. For example you can't see the frame in their own website. And I think the E11 name on the graph might be there if they used "E11" as a "code name" because I think the E82 is supposed to be modern version of their popular E10. Maybe they will get everything in order when they officially release the frame. I'm not saying this is the reason I'm just giving them the benefit of the doubt. After all these graphs and details are from multiple different sources and people. But I have to say even if that could be the case that still does not explain the mixed or missing information from graphs or the yoke situation.

I've been running Continental Kryptotal Fr+Re with enduro casing. These tires feel insanely good! No plans to change unless someone strongly recommends something else. So far really happy with them though.

I think you made me forget about E82 and go with LCE971 I just have to think if I'm okey with 720Wh battery. And if I go with that I hope I can find a good deal on the fork and shock I was planning to get

However... What did you mean with "You have 4 hours..."?

 

[Denver]

@Denver Wow.. Thank you for taking the time and explaining your thoughts! I really appreciate it! I'm learning so much!

You are making really good points! One reason for these mistakes could be that the E82 has not yet been officially launched. For example you can't see the frame in their own website. And I think the E11 name on the graph might be there if they used "E11" as a "code name" because I think the E82 is supposed to be modern version of their popular E10. Maybe they will get everything in order when they officially release the frame. I'm not saying this is the reason I'm just giving them the benefit of the doubt. After all these graphs and details are from multiple different sources and people. But I have to say even if that could be the case that still does not explain the mixed or missing information from graphs or the yoke situation.

I've been running Continental Kryptotal Fr+Re with enduro casing. These tires feel insanely good! No plans to change unless someone strongly recommends something else. So far really happy with them though.

I think you made me forget about E82 and go with LCE971 I just have to think if I'm okey with 720Wh battery. And if I go with that I hope I can find a good deal on the fork and shock I was planning to get

However... What did you mean with "You have 4 hours..."?

You might not be wrong with your observation. It's true that it's not yet available on their own website, but what does that mean?
Do they have prototypes and want to liquidate them under a different name like E82 to avoid tarnishing the E11 when it's finalized?

As for the graphs, it's not the only model where data is missing. When I had a quick look at their official website, I already noticed that.

And maybe we should forget about the E82 and wait for the E11.

In which case, if you choose the LCE971, the only solution that seems possible for you if the capacity isn't large enough is to have an external battery that attaches in place of the bottle cage.
However, that would be a "DIY" battery.

And when I said "you have 4 hours,"

It's a kind of joke, as if it were a very complex problem to solve and we only had 4 hours to find the solution.
(I guess my joke doesn't work in English)

 

[Sayonara]

@Denver I think there is a 0,1% chance that I would want a battery extender on my bike maybe it works but I'm not familiar with it haha though now that you explained it, it does make sense now

Oh! And I was meant to ask! How tall are you? I'm 178cm so I'm right in the middle of size M and L for the LCE971. Wondering what's your suggestion for frame size for me?

Ps. I sent an email to Jim @lightcarbon to ask about their stock and possible shipping times Also noticed GreenBikeKit.com is advertising for having a new silent 2024 model of m560 750w

Bafang M560 /G5300 motor kit 48V 500W-Greenbikekit.com BBS, ebike batteries, Bafang M620, Bafang M600, Bafang M500, Bafang M510, KT controller with display-GreenBikeKit.com

Bafang M560 /G5300 motor kit 48V 500W with light weight and high speed.

www.greenbikekit.com

 

[Denver]

@Denver I think there is a 0,1% chance that I would want a battery extender on my bike maybe it works but I'm not familiar with it haha though now that you explained it, it does make sense now

Oh! And I was meant to ask! How tall are you? I'm 178cm so I'm right in the middle of size M and L for the LCE971. Wondering what's your suggestion for frame size for me?

Ps. I sent an email to Jim @lightcarbon to ask about their stock and possible shipping times Also noticed GreenBikeKit.com is advertising for having a new silent 2024 model of m560 750w

Bafang M560 /G5300 motor kit 48V 500W-Greenbikekit.com BBS, ebike batteries, Bafang M620, Bafang M600, Bafang M500, Bafang M510, KT controller with display-GreenBikeKit.com

Bafang M560 /G5300 motor kit 48V 500W with light weight and high speed.

www.greenbikekit.com

Let's say the external battery would be interesting if you lack autonomy 2/3 of the time out of 10 outings. That is, 70% / 80% of the time you don't need it. However, if it's the opposite scenario, it may not be very wise to consider this option.

As for the frame size:
Even though there are guidelines, the choice of frame size remains somewhat personal. Some people prefer a slightly smaller frame for more maneuverability and a playful spirit, while others prioritize a frame that feels more secure and stable.

I'm 1.72m tall, and on the LCE971 (size "M"), I feel stable (so it's a size that feels secure for me).

Personally, I feel comfortable on a size "M," and I know a size "L" is too big for me. A size "S" would clearly be more playful.

Since the LCE971 has a contemporary geometry, you can easily compare it with other brands by visiting their websites (for example: Canyon, Specialized, Trek, Scott...) and see what frame sizes they recommend based on your height.

It's hard to give you the right size because you, like me, are between two sizes (me between "S" and "M" and you between "M" and "L"). The best solution if you don't want to make a mistake is to visit a bike shop and ask to try out a size "M" and a size "L" with a similar geometry to the LCE971.

Also, don't forget that leg and arm length can also play a role in choosing a frame size. On the Specialized website, you can enter all your measurements, and they will give you the most suitable frame based on your size.

Well, I guess I was wrong to think that this motor wouldn't see the light of day... Maybe it's shaping up to be better than the 500W version.

 

[Sayonara]

@Denver Are you able to check your chainring nuts? I found these that are supposed to be the bolts for the bafang. bafang central crank kit bbs01 and bbs02 chainring adapter black bolts-Greenbikekit.com BBS, ebike batteries, Bafang M620, Bafang M600, Bafang M500, Bafang M510, KT controller with display-GreenBikeKit.com

But when I search from aliexpress they typically list them with two options. 6,5mm and 8,5mm. Wondering which ones fit the bafang. Some pics from aliexpress.

Edit: Oh and I needed to ask.. do you think it is possible for me to get all my cables to fit those headset slots? After all I'm not going with axs derailer or dropper post. On top of that I will have a thumb throttle as well. sounds like a thight fit..

Oh and do I need the G520A motor hanger as well or does the frame take the motor without it? $70 from greenbikekit if it's needed.

 

[Denver]

@Denver Pouvez-vous vérifier les écrous de votre plateau ? J'ai trouvé ceux qui sont censés être les boulons du bafang. kit de manivelle centrale bafang adaptateur de plateau bbs01 et bbs02 boulons noirs-Greenbikekit.com BBS, batteries ebike, Bafang M620, Bafang M600, Bafang M500, Bafang M510, contrôleur KT avec affichage-GreenBikeKit.com

Mais lorsque je recherche sur Aliexpress, ils les répertorient généralement avec deux options. 6,5mm et 8,5mm. Je me demande lesquels conviennent au bafang. Quelques photos d'Aliexpress.

Edit : Oh et j'avais besoin de demander... pensez-vous qu'il est possible pour moi d'adapter tous mes câbles à ces emplacements pour casque ? Après tout, je n'utilise pas de dérailleur axe ou de tige de compte-gouttes. En plus de cela, j'aurai également un accélérateur au pouce. on dirait une coupe ajustée..

Oh, et ai-je également besoin du support de moteur G520A ou le cadre accepte-t-il le moteur sans lui ? 70 $ de greenbikekit si nécessaire.

View attachment 139289 View attachment 139290

I can't give you an absolute truth because it depends on the equipment you've chosen beforehand.

However, I can provide you with some measurements, and based on that, you could determine which bolt length suits you best.

As shown in the photos, there are several versions of bike chainrings (aluminum or steel), resulting in one being thicker and the other thinner.

Additionally, depending on the "Spider" model, there could be a thickness variation, which you should consider when choosing the bolt length.

Taking the steel model as an example, we can determine the maximum bolt length as follows:
Spider = 4.91mm + chainring 3.21mm = 8.12mm - 0.94mm - 0.94mm (Machining depth 0.94 mm) = [6.24mm].

Personally, I received 5mm-length bolts, and in my opinion, it's better to buy 6.5mm bolts and shorten them by 0.5mm to get a snug fit.

For the aluminum model:
(4.91+4.05)-0.94 = [8.02mm], so for this version, it's advisable to go for 8.5mm and shorten them by at least 0.7 mm.

I bought titanium bolts (length 8.5mm)
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EH8Vk2J
and shortened them myself, and I must admit that it's a bit tedious...

For the aluminum bolts you mentioned in your post, it's worth noting that aluminum is relatively soft, and even though these bolts are made of 7075 aluminum (which is more resistant than 6061 aluminum), I'm not sure if they can withstand a torque of 10/12Nm. Also, remember to use threadlocker (Loctite 242 or 243) during assembly to minimize the chances of loosening over time. (Personally, I use "Loctite 243" with a torque of 10Nm).
However, be careful. In my experience, I've had a bad experience with aluminum screws and Loctite. I've often damaged the screw head when trying to unscrew it. Since then, when I use an aluminum screw, I apply grease, and these screws are only intended for non-critical parts such as the bottle cage holder.

If you still choose to use aluminum models, I suggest you try with a single screw first, and if you can't unscrew it, you may need to drill it out.

Remember in one of my previous posts I told you that the chain guide wasn't compatible. I have since found the problem and also a solution. There are several models of Spider that are more or less compatible depending on the motor models (M510, M560, M600...). Some motors come with a chain guide system (ISCG-05) like the Bafang M510. If, like me, you want to install a chain guide, you must have the right "Spider." There are two compatible models, here are the references: - CW G522.1A - CW G522.1B

The "CW G522.1A" model is a spider that can accommodate a single chainring without external protection, and if I understand correctly, the "CW G522.1B" model is a spider that can accommodate two chainrings or one chainring + protection. I personally recommend opting for the "CW G522.1A" model because I don't think the "CW G522.1B" model cant's easily accommodate a chain guide due to the external protection.

So, you must be careful when ordering your motor and accessories to ensure that the supplier provides you with the correct "Spider," and thus you won't make the same mistake as me. I also want to make you aware that if you choose the "DCP245" screen, opt for version V3.0, which is compatible with the "Bafango+" application, allowing you to customize your modes.

Indeed, for routing cables through the stem, it's a bit limited with the headset provided with the frame. I think if you want to add more options than me, as you mentioned; a cable-actuated derailleur and a thumb throttle, it will be more tedious, and you won't be able to use the silicone sealing gum because it has 4 holes, and you will have 5 cables. Moreover, the cable of the "DCP245" already doesn't pass through the headset provided with the frame... I doubt that the connector of the thumb throttle will be able to pass through the hole of the headset.


I think you should equip yourself with another headset similar to this one ;

Bike Headset 1-1/2

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

a.aliexpress.com

However, if you decide to order this model, I cannot guarantee the manufacturing quality and the quality of the materials used. I have never had it in my hands. If this headset is entirely made of metal (aluminum, for example), and if the cable passages are large enough, I think it could be worth considering. However, it has the same drawback as the headset provided with the LCE971 frame. That is, it will not be 100% waterproof...
Of course, with some measurements and 3D printing, it is possible to overcome this slight flaw.




Regarding the aluminum motor support, you don't need it... You simply need the ABS plastic covers G520A.

To get this plastic cover kit, you have two options: the first is to buy a complete Bafang motor kit (motor, crankarms, cover, display, cable, bolts, screws, throttle...) and the other option is to buy everything separately. I recommend the first option and also recommend this store :
SingYiu E-bike Store

SingYiu E-bike Store - Amazing products with exclusive discounts on AliExpress

Discover the wide range of products from AliExpress Top Seller SingYiu E-bike Store. Enjoy ✓Free Shipping Worldwide! ✓Limited Time Sale ✓Easy Return.

a.aliexpress.com

 

[Sayonara]

I can't give you an absolute truth because it depends on the equipment you've chosen beforehand.

However, I can provide you with some measurements, and based on that, you could determine which bolt length suits you best.

As shown in the photos, there are several versions of bike chainrings (aluminum or steel), resulting in one being thicker and the other thinner.

View attachment 139377 View attachment 139378

Additionally, depending on the "Spider" model, there could be a thickness variation, which you should consider when choosing the bolt length.

View attachment 139381 View attachment 139382

Taking the steel model as an example, we can determine the maximum bolt length as follows:
Spider = 4.91mm + chainring 3.21mm = 8.12mm - 0.94mm - 0.94mm (Machining depth 0.94 mm) = [6.24mm].

Personally, I received 5mm-length bolts, and in my opinion, it's better to buy 6.5mm bolts and shorten them by 0.5mm to get a snug fit.

View attachment 139383

For the aluminum model:
(4.91+4.05)-0.94 = [8.02mm], so for this version, it's advisable to go for 8.5mm and shorten them by at least 0.7 mm.

I bought titanium bolts (length 8.5mm)
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EH8Vk2J
and shortened them myself, and I must admit that it's a bit tedious...

For the aluminum bolts you mentioned in your post, it's worth noting that aluminum is relatively soft, and even though these bolts are made of 7075 aluminum (which is more resistant than 6061 aluminum), I'm not sure if they can withstand a torque of 10/12Nm. Also, remember to use threadlocker (Loctite 242 or 243) during assembly to minimize the chances of loosening over time. (Personally, I use "Loctite 243" with a torque of 10Nm).
However, be careful. In my experience, I've had a bad experience with aluminum screws and Loctite. I've often damaged the screw head when trying to unscrew it. Since then, when I use an aluminum screw, I apply grease, and these screws are only intended for non-critical parts such as the bottle cage holder.

If you still choose to use aluminum models, I suggest you try with a single screw first, and if you can't unscrew it, you may need to drill it out.

Remember in one of my previous posts I told you that the chain guide wasn't compatible. I have since found the problem and also a solution. There are several models of Spider that are more or less compatible depending on the motor models (M510, M560, M600...). Some motors come with a chain guide system (ISCG-05) like the Bafang M510. If, like me, you want to install a chain guide, you must have the right "Spider." There are two compatible models, here are the references: - CW G522.1A - CW G522.1B

View attachment 139384 View attachment 139385

View attachment 139386 View attachment 139387 View attachment 139388 View attachment 139389 View attachment 139390

The "CW G522.1A" model is a spider that can accommodate a single chainring without external protection, and if I understand correctly, the "CW G522.1B" model is a spider that can accommodate two chainrings or one chainring + protection. I personally recommend opting for the "CW G522.1A" model because I don't think the "CW G522.1B" model cant's easily accommodate a chain guide due to the external protection.

So, you must be careful when ordering your motor and accessories to ensure that the supplier provides you with the correct "Spider," and thus you won't make the same mistake as me. I also want to make you aware that if you choose the "DCP245" screen, opt for version V3.0, which is compatible with the "Bafango+" application, allowing you to customize your modes.

Indeed, for routing cables through the stem, it's a bit limited with the headset provided with the frame. I think if you want to add more options than me, as you mentioned; a cable-actuated derailleur and a thumb throttle, it will be more tedious, and you won't be able to use the silicone sealing gum because it has 4 holes, and you will have 5 cables. Moreover, the cable of the "DCP245" already doesn't pass through the headset provided with the frame... I doubt that the connector of the thumb throttle will be able to pass through the hole of the headset.


I think you should equip yourself with another headset similar to this one ;

Bike Headset 1-1/2

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

a.aliexpress.com

However, if you decide to order this model, I cannot guarantee the manufacturing quality and the quality of the materials used. I have never had it in my hands. If this headset is entirely made of metal (aluminum, for example), and if the cable passages are large enough, I think it could be worth considering. However, it has the same drawback as the headset provided with the LCE971 frame. That is, it will not be 100% waterproof...
Of course, with some measurements and 3D printing, it is possible to overcome this slight flaw.




Regarding the aluminum motor support, you don't need it... You simply need the ABS plastic covers G520A.

View attachment 139391

To get this plastic cover kit, you have two options: the first is to buy a complete Bafang motor kit (motor, crankarms, cover, display, cable, bolts, screws, throttle...) and the other option is to buy everything separately. I recommend the first option and also recommend this store :
SingYiu E-bike Store

SingYiu E-bike Store - Amazing products with exclusive discounts on AliExpress

Discover the wide range of products from AliExpress Top Seller SingYiu E-bike Store. Enjoy ✓Free Shipping Worldwide! ✓Limited Time Sale ✓Easy Return.

a.aliexpress.com

Ah good point about the possibility of the spiders varied thickness and the shoftness of aluminium.

Yeah I can shorten the bolts myself. Good idea. After all I first thought about welding my own bike frame but it's totally not worth the hazzle

Good reminder about Loctite. I got Peaty's assembly grease but do you think I should also get Peaty's max grip carbon assembly paste? I don't have other carbon parts than the frame.

Oh good to know! I'll ask which spider is included in the set. Thanks!

Does the ISCG-05 guard system bolt to the motor mount holes? The .1A spider has room to fit that system better?

Good remimber about the version 3.0 also. I found this out on my research already but had forgotten!

Yeah I will have to ask Lightcarbon if they have tested the throttle cable via the headset.

I'll take a look at that headset and do some research! Thank you. Honestly I'm thinking of asking them to drill the holes for the cables for me (that way I don't void the warranty if I do it myself) so I could run the cables out of the frame before the headset rather than through it.

Ah that's what I thought (not needing motor support). Thank you.

I asked that aliexpress seller if they are able to provide me with 750w and/or a throttle. Both answers were no. That's why I'm currently planning on ordering from Greenbikekit.

Bafang does not mass produce the 750w yet but are running smaller test batches. However all this could change soon. Week from now 5.-8.5 China Cycle show starts and Bafang will be there. Maybe they will release some new info there. I think DengFu is there also but not sure if LightCarbon will be there.

Thank you again for all this <3

 

[Denver]

Ah good point about the possibility of the spiders varied thickness and the shoftness of aluminium.

Yeah I can shorten the bolts myself. Good idea. After all I first thought about welding my own bike frame but it's totally not worth the hazzle

Good reminder about Loctite. I got Peaty's assembly grease but do you think I should also get Peaty's max grip carbon assembly paste? I don't have other carbon parts than the frame.

Oh good to know! I'll ask which spider is included in the set. Thanks!

Does the ISCG-05 guard system bolt to the motor mount holes? The .1A spider has room to fit that system better?

Good remimber about the version 3.0 also. I found this out on my research already but had forgotten!

Yeah I will have to ask Lightcarbon if they have tested the throttle cable via the headset.

I'll take a look at that headset and do some research! Thank you. Honestly I'm thinking of asking them to drill the holes for the cables for me (that way I don't void the warranty if I do it myself) so I could run the cables out of the frame before the headset rather than through it.

Ah that's what I thought (not needing motor support). Thank you.

I asked that aliexpress seller if they are able to provide me with 750w and/or a throttle. Both answers were no. That's why I'm currently planning on ordering from Greenbikekit.

Bafang does not mass produce the 750w yet but are running smaller test batches. However all this could change soon. Week from now 5.-8.5 China Cycle show starts and Bafang will be there. Maybe they will release some new info there. I think DengFu is there also but not sure if LightCarbon will be there.

Thank you again for all this <3

For choosing grease, there are two things to be mindful of:

• Firstly, it's essential to ensure that your grease is compatible with composite materials, particularly carbon. Some greases contain additives that can be corrosive to carbon frames... So it's crucial to be certain that the grease you apply, which might come into contact with the frame, is not corrosive.
  
  
• Secondly, greases intended for carbon are often loaded with particles, particularly to provide better adhesion between the components that will be assembled (such as the seat post). The advantage of this type of grease is that it reduces the tightening torque because, as a reminder, carbon doesn't tolerate strong compressions well. However, greases loaded with particles are only to be used for assembling fixed components (for example, a carbon handlebar). Such grease has no place on bearings (for example, in the headset) or at the pivot points of the rear triangle...

It's important to distinguish between these two types of grease: one is an assembly grease (with particles), and the other is a lubricating grease (without particles) for moving parts.

For my part, I have acquired grease from these two brands. One is loaded with particles, and the other is simply compatible with carbon and without particles.

I took the trouble to bring out my microscope to show you what grease loaded with particles looks like :

All ISCG-05 protection systems are compatible with Bafang M600, M560, and M510 motors. Yes, I suggest you go with the "CW G522.1A" because, as shown in the photo below, it's already quite challenging to find a chain guide that is centered relative to the chain... so if you opt for the "CW G522.1B" model, it may rub against the top of the chain guide and on the lateral side.
As for me, I will have to modify my chain guide because when the chain is positioned at the top of the cassette, it rubs against the chain guide.

For those wondering which model of chain guide it is :

Fouriers BB Mount Chain Guide MTB XC Chain Keeper For Single Ring 1x System 30T to 38T ISCG05 Bike Parts - AliExpress 18

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

 

[Sayonara]

For choosing grease, there are two things to be mindful of:

• Firstly, it's essential to ensure that your grease is compatible with composite materials, particularly carbon. Some greases contain additives that can be corrosive to carbon frames... So it's crucial to be certain that the grease you apply, which might come into contact with the frame, is not corrosive.
  
  
• Secondly, greases intended for carbon are often loaded with particles, particularly to provide better adhesion between the components that will be assembled (such as the seat post). The advantage of this type of grease is that it reduces the tightening torque because, as a reminder, carbon doesn't tolerate strong compressions well. However, greases loaded with particles are only to be used for assembling fixed components (for example, a carbon handlebar). Such grease has no place on bearings (for example, in the headset) or at the pivot points of the rear triangle...

It's important to distinguish between these two types of grease: one is an assembly grease (with particles), and the other is a lubricating grease (without particles) for moving parts.

View attachment 139725 View attachment 139726

For my part, I have acquired grease from these two brands. One is loaded with particles, and the other is simply compatible with carbon and without particles.

I took the trouble to bring out my microscope to show you what grease loaded with particles looks like :

View attachment 139727

All ISCG-05 protection systems are compatible with Bafang M600, M560, and M510 motors. Yes, I suggest you go with the "CW G522.1A" because, as shown in the photo below, it's already quite challenging to find a chain guide that is centered relative to the chain... so if you opt for the "CW G522.1B" model, it may rub against the top of the chain guide and on the lateral side.
As for me, I will have to modify my chain guide because when the chain is positioned at the top of the cassette, it rubs against the chain guide.

View attachment 139728 View attachment 139729

For those wondering which model of chain guide it is :

Fouriers BB Mount Chain Guide MTB XC Chain Keeper For Single Ring 1x System 30T to 38T ISCG05 Bike Parts - AliExpress 18

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

Oh good call on the greases. Thank you! Have to do some research on that.

I think the m560 does even take the 1b. Only 1a fits.

 

[Denver]

Oh good call on the greases. Thank you! Have to do some research on that.

I think the m560 does even take the 1b. Only 1a fits.

Yes, the M560 supports both versions (1A and 1B).

 

[Sayonara]

Ok, so I definitely need to get carbon paste for my dropper seatpost and for others to make sure if Peaty's assembly grease is compatible with carbon.

I'm thinking getting this. Seems decent with option to use shims etc. 2.76￡ 6% OFF|1x Mtb Chain Guide - Iscg 03/05 Bb Post Mount, Wide Narrow Gear Guider

I've seen few mechanics recommend pre-lubed shifter cable+cable housing. Especially this brand. 1x Pro Shift Kit | Jagwire
Can be bought at least from here. Jagwire 1X Pro Shifter Cable Set

They also seem to have one for dropper seatpost which could be useful but sadly it seems bit expensive and hard to find a seller.

Pro Dropper Kit | Jagwire

Pro Dropper Kits are the first cable and housing kit designed exclusively to improve the performance of dropper seatposts.

jagwire.com

Also, thank you for this link! Had no luck finding these myself. Definitely getting the 160mm cranks!

26.91￡ 3% OFF|Cog And Crank|bafang M600/m510/m500/m420 Mid Drive Motor Crank Arms - Aluminum 152-170mm

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

 

[xtraman122]

Great build log, you're inspiring me to consider building myself versus buying. One thing with the LCE971, how can you find batteries that will fit? The generic "OEM 720wh" on the product page wasn't giving me much of a clue as to what would fit. Is there a specific size to search around for that it's called? Is it the same as some of the Dengfu frames, or specific to LightCarbon?

Edit: It just hit me, do they just mean Bafang OEM, meaning this battery? BT F120.D720

 

[Denver]

Great build log, you're inspiring me to consider building myself versus buying. One thing with the LCE971, how can you find batteries that will fit? The generic "OEM 720wh" on the product page wasn't giving me much of a clue as to what would fit. Is there a specific size to search around for that it's called? Is it the same as some of the Dengfu frames, or specific to LightCarbon?

Edit: It just hit me, do they just mean Bafang OEM, meaning this battery? BT F120.D720

Thank you very much. I try my best to help as many people as possible.

Of course, there are many brands that manufacture batteries like Bosch, Specialized, Darfon...

There are also companies that develop only battery cases, such as "SYR" or "Hailong."

For this frame model, Lightcarbon has decided to use a case from "SYR," specifically the "SYR014" model.

Here’s what you need to know about the battery :

There is only one manufacturer of battery chassis (cases), which is the "SYR" brand. However, many companies assemble batteries using SYR brand chassis. This method is very healthy in my opinion because it creates good competition, leading to reasonably priced batteries, unlike proprietary batteries like those from Bosch.

However, the downside is that you need to be careful where you buy your battery. Some companies assemble batteries with low-quality cells, while others use high-quality cells from brands like LG, Samsung, and Sony.

For this frame (LightCarbon LCE971), you will need a "SYR014" battery. Depending on your choice of motor, you may need a different voltage (48v, 36v...). Aside from this detail, the battery remains the same—the difference lies in the parallel and series configuration of the cells.

I bought my battery here :

Page Not Found - Aliexpress.com

(For my Bafang M510 : 48v15a)

The store mentioned that the cells were Samsung. I haven't yet verified this, but I did a capacity test that was very accurate, reflecting the seller's claims.

I don't know if Dengfu uses SYR brand batteries in some of their frames. In any case, even within a bike frame brand, they might use different brands and models of batteries depending on the needs and the type of riding.

To address your "edit": No, this frame does not use Bafang OEM batteries.

If you have the skills to assemble a bike yourself, I highly encourage you to do so. It remains the best solution in terms of quality-price ratio and allows the bike to be the most suited to your riding style and morphology since you can choose each part individually.

 

[xtraman122]

I think I’m pretty set on either building myself or going with the new Frey Dopamine 2.0 Pro. I want the power of an M560 but want to wait a bit until they figure out these last few issues with them and there are more real world results of the supposedly quieter updates to it.

Quality of the cells is exactly what I’m afraid of ordering direct from China. They all seem too cheap to be of any quality. With the shark batteries there are more US resellers who at least have a reputation of picking from the better suppliers in China so you can feel a little better about what you’re ordering. Not looking to burn my house down with a cheap battery if you know what I mean.

Any idea what LightCarbon charges for painting? I’d love to try and match the Yeti blue if possible. I’ve seen some guides on painting yourself but I’d honestly be fine just paying them to do it if they do a decent job.

 

[Denver]

I think I’m pretty set on either building myself or going with the new Frey Dopamine 2.0 Pro. I want the power of an M560 but want to wait a bit until they figure out these last few issues with them and there are more real world results of the supposedly quieter updates to it.

Quality of the cells is exactly what I’m afraid of ordering direct from China. They all seem too cheap to be of any quality. With the shark batteries there are more US resellers who at least have a reputation of picking from the better suppliers in China so you can feel a little better about what you’re ordering. Not looking to burn my house down with a cheap battery if you know what I mean.

Any idea what LightCarbon charges for painting? I’d love to try and match the Yeti blue if possible. I’ve seen some guides on painting yourself but I’d honestly be fine just paying them to do it if they do a decent job.

I completely understand your concerns regarding battery safety, and it's clear that zero risk does not exist. It's also true that there's a higher risk when buying a battery from a third-party Chinese company compared to a well-known manufacturer like Bosch, to name one.

It's important to know that I have the equipment and skills needed to assemble a battery. I can therefore fairly estimate the cost of a battery. Even though a SYR battery costs around €300, this is realistic, although the profit margin isn't high.

An individual who orders a small quantity of cells will pay a high price. However, a company that uses thousands of cells daily gets them at drastically reduced prices.

As for the rest, such as the charge-discharge management part (the BMS), it only costs a few dollars. The nickel strips used to assemble the cells are not the most expensive part of a battery.

Here are some numbers to give you an idea of the total cost of this battery:

- SYR014 chassis: $35
- Samsung 21700 cells: 39 pieces = $117
- BMS: $10
- Nickel strip: $5
- Sleeving, insulation, cable, various: $10

Of course, these prices are for reference and not exact, as they depend on the company and the negotiation it does upfront. But generally speaking, this gives an price of $177 USD.

Add to this labor, sales margin, and shipping costs, and the €300+ price for a high-quality battery is realistic.

People often see Bosch batteries with a 750W capacity priced at $1000, making it seem inconceivable to get a quality battery for $300 USD. In reality, traditional manufacturers are making substantial profits.

If you take a look at the PDF listing all the parts I used and their prices, you'll see that my bike costs less than 6000 francs. Comparing it to a similar pre-assembled bike on the market, it would be over 12000 francs. And still, it wouldn’t include the lighting management system, lamps, titanium bolts, accessories, and more.

It's the same when you see that Specialized sells some of their bare frames for 4600 francs the profit margin at that price is colossal.

Regarding the paint, I can't comment on the prices as they can vary depending on the type of paint. The best answer will come from Jim, and here is his number to contact him : +86 134 5924 1476.

 

[Sayonara]

Any idea what LightCarbon charges for painting? I’d love to try and match the Yeti blue if possible. I’ve seen some guides on painting yourself but I’d honestly be fine just paying them to do it if they do a decent job.

I have had very good experience with Jim by just emailing him ([email protected]). My frame will arrive this or the next week!

 

[xtraman122]

I contacted him over WhatsApp and he was quick to reply - has just the color I was looking for. Just need to decide if I take the leap of faith in a custom build now and trust Bafang to have figured out the M560 issues but the time I’ll have a frame for it.

 

[xtraman122]

Well, seeing your build and the new M560s being available made me bite the bullet and dive into the fun.

Placed an order with Jim for a painted LCE971 and am configuring another order for the M560/battery/supporting components to hopefully be shipped together with the frame. Now I have a month or so to pick out all my other components. I'll try and make a build log like you did here (Although mine won't be nearly as detailed and though out as yours!).

I wanted to do a mullet setup, but am a little afraid of messing with the geometry of the frame at all by doing so. I'll have to make that decision soon. If not mullet, it would just be a 29" all around.

 

[Swannking]

Well, seeing your build and the new M560s being available made me bite the bullet and dive into the fun.

Placed an order with Jim for a painted LCE971 and am configuring another order for the M560/battery/supporting components to hopefully be shipped together with the frame. Now I have a month or so to pick out all my other components. I'll try and make a build log like you did here (Although mine won't be nearly as detailed and though out as yours!).

I wanted to do a mullet setup, but am a little afraid of messing with the geometry of the frame at all by doing so. I'll have to make that decision soon. If not mullet, it would just be a 29" all around.

I am quite happy with the mullet. I built it as a 27.5 with a 180mm fork. It was doing ok but I wanted more BB clearance. I changed it to a mullet but it was terrible with climbing with the 180mm front. I changed the air spring to 160mm. It is great.

 

[xtraman122]

I am quite happy with the mullet. I built it as a 27.5 with a 180mm fork. It was doing ok but I wanted more BB clearance. I changed it to a mullet but it was terrible with climbing with the 180mm front. I changed the air spring to 160mm. It is great.

Great to hear on the mullet, I’ll probably give it a go then. I like the color there, I went for PT2995C to try and match the blue from Yeti bikes, I’m hoping it’ll come out good.

I plan on doing a 160mm fork up front, most likely either the e-optimized Fox 36 or a RockShox Lyrik.

 

[Swannking]

Great to hear on the mullet, I’ll probably give it a go then. I like the color there, I went for PT2995C to try and match the blue from Yeti bikes, I’m hoping it’ll come out good.

I plan on doing a 160mm fork up front, most likely either the e-optimized Fox 36 or a RockShox Lyrik.

The lyrik is what I have.

 

[Denver]

Great to hear on the mullet, I’ll probably give it a go then. I like the color there, I went for PT2995C to try and match the blue from Yeti bikes, I’m hoping it’ll come out good.

I plan on doing a 160mm fork up front, most likely either the e-optimized Fox 36 or a RockShox Lyrik.

The LCE971 frame is not originally designed for a mullet setup, which is the first thing to keep in mind. However, if you are still tempted to try riding it as a mullet, I would advise limiting the front travel to 150mm to minimize alterations to the original geometry. And don't make the foolish mistake of increasing the travel to 180mm it's not just shooting yourself in the foot but practically in the head.

Switching to a mullet setup will result in a steeper head angle, a longer trail, and a lower bottom bracket height.

Personally, I see no real benefit in switching to a mullet setup. If you primarily engage in aggressive downhill riding, it might make sense. However, in that case, it's better to opt for a pure enduro e-bike rather than a heavily modified all-mountain bike.

 

[xtraman122]

The LCE971 frame is not originally designed for a mullet setup, which is the first thing to keep in mind. However, if you are still tempted to try riding it as a mullet, I would advise limiting the front travel to 150mm to minimize alterations to the original geometry. And don't make the foolish mistake of increasing the travel to 180mm it's not just shooting yourself in the foot but practically in the head.

Switching to a mullet setup will result in a steeper head angle, a longer trail, and a lower bottom bracket height.

Personally, I see no real benefit in switching to a mullet setup. If you primarily engage in aggressive downhill riding, it might make sense. However, in that case, it's better to opt for a pure enduro e-bike rather than a heavily modified all-mountain bike.

This is the sort of response I expected to just throwing a mullet setup on a bike not necessarily designed for it. Seems like a surprising number of bikes do come in both options. I was planning on 160mm of front travel on whatever I do. Still haven’t purchased any of my other components yet, got plenty of time before my frame and motor will get here to decide.

One question I’ve been trying to find an answer on: Is the crank spline on the 510/600/620/560 etc compatible with any of the other big brands? I wanted to use something a little shorter than the stock 170mm and would just get them included with my SRAM group set I’ve been eyeing if they’d work. They seem to offer different options for Brose or Bosch, would either of those work on the Bafang? They all seem to say ISIS compatible but I don’t know exactly what that specifies.