Which for steep techy dh between SL or Rise?

[Mteam]

If I skirt around the whole "rider skill" distraction, this maybe sounds like there's a setup issue with your Wild. It's really hard to diagnose these sorts of things over the internet but...

You've said: "doesn't modulate well" and described Saints modulating better (than MT7s?)

So we're talking about brakes here but you intend to carry them over to the new bike. What's the thinking?

You've said: "doesn't turn well" and "has a sharp pendulum shift".

If this is connected with the aforementioned braking, I think you mean it dives a lot on braking (I'm trying to interpret, so don't take it out on me if I'm wrong).

This is why I'm drawn to thinking there's a setup issue. Grabbing a handful of brake and suffering a whole load of brake dive is going to be unsettling. Sure, a lot of that can come down to modulation and inputs but also it sounds like your setup is on the soft side.

Now all setup is a compromise, so if you went trying to firm up the suspension you'll lose something on the flip side. You may lose some of the cushy, plush feeling. You may have to up-end some of your thinking about exactly how your bike is feeling on other bits of trail - all in the search of better compromise.

FWIW, none of my bikes feel plush after I've got them setup for how I like to ride. They always feel firm and supportive but... at 60kmh over some pretty hectic terrain the suspension is doing what I need it to do, taking the edge off the hits and keeping me in control. In the tighter stuff it lets me tip into steep sections comfortable in the centre of the bike without any lurching around. That delivers the compromise I've arrived at over a number of years.

Agree with Pete here, if you rode someone elses wild fs and found it fine, but your wild fs is not fine, then it's a setup issue (or component issue if yours is the very basic model wild, which is why I'm asking which model you have in my post up there) , not with standing that the one you tried was a size xl.

 

[carlbiker]

Carl, remind me again which model of wild fs do you currently have? Can't remember....

Its the H30, I’ve added a burtec carbon bar, 35mm stem and the MT7 brakes (203 although wished those 220 had been the right ones). My 35 isn’t worth much I don’t think so the fork upgrade would still be about 1k, fair chunk on mine given how it is atm. I didn’t appreciate how much better a bike is with a better fork

 

[Mteam]

Its the H30, I’ve added a burtec carbon bar, 35mm stem and the MT7 brakes (203 although wished those 220 had been the right ones). My 35 isn’t worth much I don’t think so the fork upgrade would still be about 1k, fair chunk on mine given how it is atm. I didn’t appreciate how much better a bike is with a better fork

Yeah, that rockshox 35 fork is quite poor. But I'm reluctant to recommend you spend a few hundred quid on a rockshox zeb or fox 38 given your dislike of the bike itself.

Lighter bikes are more agile, so if you think your problems are caused by excessive weight then changing the fork is not going to improve things, but if your issues are caused by a crappy fork then it could be the answer.

Your issue is that you don't have enough experience to know if the problem is the fork, the setup of the bike, the overall weight of the bike, you or something else.

It would greatly help if someone with a decent amount of experience could ride your bike and identify where the problem lies.

 

[carlbiker]

@slippery pete

So we're talking about brakes here but you intend to carry them over to the new bike. What's the thinking?

Originally I had 223mm rotors ordered but lbs couldn’t fit them so I went onto stock, when I use the brakes they gurgle and after today it might be the discs aren’t quite right for the size of the pads but although I’m not expert I believe there’s more to modulation than just brakes alone, traction + brakes + suspension and only a crazy person would blame MT7 for not performing. T hat set maybe they aren’t setup 100% also. I have actually just got an MDT-C CL x1 maguru disc today (can’t find a second!) to try out, maybe this helps. My mates Cube actionteam had a nice fork, 27.5 wheels and the Saints plus Mary/betty.....probably no surprise it inspires more confidence

You've said: "doesn't turn well" and "has a sharp pendulum shift".

Maybe this might help, I didn’t volunteer to do it but was given abit of encouragement to go for it so, well bugger it as they say off I went (not OTB thankfully!). There was more challenging stuff than this I also did on the day but at times it was just pure sketchy and having to react to stuff too often...


The first part it’s just about modulating, second part it’s literally lock on/off all the way down, this might be normal but I’ve a suspicion you can hold the pad on the disc all the way without locking up....taking the edge of kind of thing maybe 20% even.

The videos nothing to show off about, might look good to non mtb folk but time will improve my technique plus I’m always out with better riders (but I feel the gap is artificial because of the fact there mainly analogue making everything easier imo, I know I can do more), it’s kind of why I want a fighting chance by being tuned in with a bike, any bike ?, I can catch up abit quicker then.

 

[CjP]

It would greatly help if someone with a decent amount of experience could ride your bike and identify where the problem lies.

Is Gary available?

 

[Pdoz]

Is Gary available?

I'd pay to see the videa as he declares " your stem is too tight"

 

[Rosemount]

Bad tradesman blames his tools .
Just watched the Bomb Hole Vid . My advice ; spend your money on coaching before you try to buy a new bike to compensate for your lack of skills .

Your body position on the bike could be improved and along with it your ability to modulate the brakes .

 

[carlbiker]

Yeah, that rockshox 35 fork is quite poor. But I'm reluctant to recommend you spend a few hundred quid on a rockshox zeb or fox 38 given your dislike of the bike itself.

Lighter bikes are more agile, so if you think your problems are caused by excessive weight then changing the fork is not going to improve things, but if your issues are caused by a crappy fork then it could be the answer.

Your issue is that you don't have enough experience to know if the problem is the fork, the setup of the bike, the overall weight of the bike, you or something else.

It would greatly help if someone with a decent amount of experience could ride your bike and identify where the problem lies.

Pretty spot on.....

 

[slippery pete]

Bad tradesman blames his tools .
Just watched the Bomb Hole Vid . My advice ; consider spend your money on coaching before you try to buy a new bike to compensate for your lack of skills .

to nail Your body position on the bike. Coaching will pick up what could be improved and along with it your ability to modulate the brakes .

FTFY

 

[slippery pete]

The fork and shock on the H30 spec are certainly low end units. Ignore all the comments about "skill first, bike later". Most of us operate firmly on the principle of buying our way out of trouble. If we just look at the concept that very skilful riders can ride any bike, that does not mean that to become skilful we need to be constantly compensating for bike parts that aren't helping us on our skills development journey.

Going too far the other way can obviously result in embarrassing state of having all the gear and no idea: the preferred situation for many a forum dweller.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Going too far the other way can obviously result in embarrassing state of having all the gear and no idea: the preferred situation for many a forum dweller.

Do you have any links for this gear ?? I need it ...

 

[Mteam]

Pretty spot on.....

I guess if you swap to a rise m20 you'll be addressing a couple of those points :-

- better fork & other bits
- lighter weight
- but lower power
- less suspension travel

 

[R120]

IMO a lighter bike is going to help out - for me I am at the point whereby the weight of an EMTB is the biggest restrictive factor to having more"fun" on the bike.

There is no substitute for learning skills, trying and improving your riding, I have done a few courses and all have been more than worth the money spent, and far more effective than throwing money at the bike, and this can be done on any bike.

However EMTB,s are heavy old things, and there no doubt its easier IMO to master certain skills on a regular bike, simply because they weigh less.

Manualing is way easier to do for example, and I would say learning to corner properly too as EMTB's pick up speed quickly due to the weight, meaning you are often barrelling into corners, hauling on the brakes, and then loosing momentum through the corner rather than gaining it.

Often I think with an EMTB its easier to get to a certain skill level quite easily, but then harder to push on as your overall physical fitness and ability to manhandle a heavy bike starts to become a factor. Hustling a FF EMTB is a pretty physical thing to do, and for me about 3 hours is the limit of my physical ability to really push the bike before my upper body and core has had enough, whereas I can goo all day on a regular MTB.

One of th best things I did in recent years was buy DJ bike and start hitting up pump tracks - this teaches you so much about bike handing, body position, and how to maintain momentum, and you can then transfer this over tot he EMTB. Also a lot of fun, and gets you fit as riding pump track is surprisingly knackering!

So I think a lighter weight EMTB is actually easier to progress on than a FF one, thogh that doesn't mean I would go selling one bike for another if you already have a decent bike.

 

[Gary]

Manualling is for sure a lot more effort to initiate on an Emtb but it's actually a lot easier to hold a long manual on a 50lb FS E/mtb than a 25lb DJ bike.
Too nimble = twitchy. Especially if you're a beginner.

The purity of a DJ bike forces the rider to learn every basic mtb skill they're ever likely to require and basic learned skills are all transferrable to any bike. Everyone should have one

 

[carlbiker]

The fork and shock on the H30 spec are certainly low end units. Ignore all the comments about "skill first, bike later". Most of us operate firmly on the principle of buying our way out of trouble. If we just look at the concept that very skilful riders can ride any bike, that does not mean that to become skilful we need to be constantly compensating for bike parts that aren't helping us on our skills development journey.

Going too far the other way can obviously result in embarrassing state of having all the gear and no idea: the preferred situation for many a forum dweller.

Thanks, your setting a nice example of how to offer advice....

When I bought an ebike it was the first thing I tried to sort but it’s a 6 month wait which I didn’t realise and wasn’t ideal.....I have a ’road to enduro’ course coming up next week (finally), it’s a 5 part course that covers everything but would be nice to have sorted the bike by then which might not be possible if the bike size isn’t right

At times I’m finding myself riding with the bottom of my hands and fingers where an imaginary bar should probably be when going slow. This alone could have more impact than I appreciate in terms of weight distribution dh, maybe perfect technique on a wrong size bike can still be okay?

The XL I was on yesterday felt more like the cube (my friends I tried the other week) feeling more in the bike kind of thing, it’s a shame there wasn’t anything off piste gnarly to test agility on but maybe in future I’ll get chance, I’m very intrigued to see how a better fork and better fitting bike compares In tricky stuff.

Going too far the other way will be more expensive to repair in ‘novice’ hands, another reason why I consider the lw bikes as you get more time to react which probably is a better learner bike to be on. At the time I bought mine there were Cube bikes with a zeb fork xyz for the same money but I felt my skill level didn‘t warrant the high end stuff and again I’d break stuff whilst learning ?.

 

[Gary]

am I really reading that...

• Fox Float DPS Performance 3-Position Evol LV
• RockShox 35 Gold RL

Suspension components are what is holding Carl back ?

Or am I having some sort of bizarre acid flashback

FFS!

 

[carlbiker]

am I really reading that...

• Fox Float DPS Performance 3-Position Evol LV
• RockShox 35 Gold RL

Suspension components are what is holding Carl back ?

Or am I having some sort of bizarre acid flashback

FFS!

If it’s not bumpy, it’s not mountain biking!

 

[carlbiker]

Forestal | Cyon This augmented reality thing is pretty awesome!!! How sneaky to actually place the thing in your home, what a mind fuck ?

Okay time to email them which size.....

 

[Mteam]

Forestal | Cyon This augmented reality thing is pretty awesome!!! How sneaky to actually place the thing in your home, what a mind fuck ?

Okay time to email them which size.....

I dont quite get the appeal of those forestals, they're seriously expensive, the spec is not all that high (for the money at least), there is no dealer network in the uk, they use an oddball bafang motor with no/minimal uk support/backup . you'd have to be bonkers to choose one over a rise m20 - IMO.

 

[Gary]

If you're struggling to coordinate your downhill riding position, weight bias, and braking while turning. A linkage driven single pivot bike is extremely unlikely to be the answer to your issues.

I can see why the Forestal drew you in though... they definitely like words, far fetched claims and lists. Lots of lists.
Showcasing their bike using the talents of arguably most stylish 90s DH racer now he's in his 50s wasn't a bad move either

 

[Zimmerframe]

Showcasing their bike using the talents of arguably most stylish 90s DH racer now he's in his 50s wasn't a bad move either

It's Cédric Gracia, not you !

Ah, you said stylish, not attractive .. damned mobile phone ..

 

[Mteam]

If you're struggling to coordinate your downhill riding position, weight bias, and braking while turning. A linkage driven single pivot bike is extremely unlikely to be the answer to your issues.

I can see why the Forestal drew you in though... they definitely like words, far fetched claims and lists. Lots of lists.
Showcasing their bike using the talents of arguably most stylish 90s DH racer now he's in his 50s wasn't a bad move either

You might have hit the nail on the head! - the wild fs is effectively a linkage driven single pivot albeit with the brake caliper on the linkage side of things

 

[Gary]

I genuinely don't think there is a nail to be hit.
We're discussing a rider who's been riding for a grand total of 7 months or so, expecting to be able to buy talent

 

[Mteam]

I genuinely don't think there is a nail to be hit.
We're discussing a rider who's been riding for a grand total of 7 months or so, expecting to be able to buy talent

I was being a little sarcastic..

 

[Zimmerframe]

I can see why the Forestal drew you in though...

I'm drawn in too .... I like the simplicity and dumb asses like numbers - it has nice numbers . Though it is a huge unknown. I think the motor is a modified upvolted M800 to get the power/torque numbers up - in a new case and a few fancy tweaks, more expensive components. The battery, who knows - probably something similar. I suspect they're either struggling or just making sure they get the balance perfect between assistance and range/height. I suspect it will end up being more like a turbo+ Mahle than an EP8 RS.

It's (they) arguably expensive for an unknown. A base model gets you a Gen3 Expert ish. Twice the battery, twice the power - though that mere comparison shows I'm obviously still drawn to full fat.

It could end up being the dogs nads. Certainly profitable - must be one of the most expensive direct sales bikes there is - no discounts there, and low production costs with a cheap motor and so on.

My inner gut feeling tells me I'll get 800m climbing out of it and just be really pissed off .. So until there's more real world testing out there - ideally real real world - so a Rob test - it's a bit of a waiting game.

I know the main thing which slows me down though is ineptness. If I spent as long in the garden practising basic techniques as I do pointlessly comparing SL's Primes Rises, Cyon and so on .. I'd be a considerably more magnificent less sh1t rider.

 

[Zimmerframe]

We're discussing a rider who's been riding for a grand total of 7 months or so, expecting to be able to buy talent

Have you considered setting yourself up as a bike pimp ?

 

[Gary]

Still too busy whoring myself out mate. maybe when I get old
(it's my Birthday tomorrow, so who knows?)

 

[Tubby G]

Heh @carlbiker , as a few people have mentioned courses, I can thoroughly recommend this fella:

Mountain Bike Coaching and Guided Rides | Yorkshire & The Peak District

Mission Mountain Biking offers mountain bike coaching for beginners and intermediate riders. I also offer guided rides in Yorkshire and the Peak District.

www.missionmountainbiking.co.uk

You’d have to meet at Dalby Forest though, but not too far from Leeds

 

[GMLS]

not quite but good observation there ?. Atm I can’t say for sure if I’d be better with a size M, L, XL and after today’s ride I’ve no idea what size rise would suit, they will never have various sizes to try instore or have more versions to try as a demo...but my lbs are pretty cool guys tbh, they would take the bike back after me riding one. The cube Kathmandu I bought originally was 6 weeks old and they very kindly allowed me to swap for the wild but back then I was happy just being able to pootle down trails and the odd little descent etc, kind of ‘nob’ about type stuff.....for reasons unknown I have greater desire for overcoming tough challenges which is an expensive problem ? (brakes, suspension upgrades wanted etc)

So the demo M would at least give me a rough idea on how it feels on certain terrain

I had a demo today. I'm just 5'9" with 30" inside leg and the large was bang on. Have a Cube FF Since Oct which I love but now heading to the Mrs as blown away by the Rise. Ordered a M10 to have colour choice as now waiting anyway but like powerful brakes and good fork

 

[carlbiker]

I guess if you swap to a rise m20 you'll be addressing a couple of those points :-

- better fork & other bits
- lighter weight
- but lower power
- less suspension travel

Yep, annoying!

Realistically the bikes probably geared up well for the m10 with 150 travel and it’s probably plenty of bike for myself for a good few years providing its setup okay. But 7k for what’s still mainly a trail bike I’m not sure on (same head angle as mine etc) and if you upgrade the forks then it invalidates the warranty (according to lbs) Quote: “it’s not designed to take 160 travel”.

These guys over at Forestel, I’m about 30% tempted to buy one atm but it’s a hefty punt, I’ve emailed regarding support, returns xyz, no reply from my earlier email yet; I was hoping to get bombarded. I do love the sleek tron esque like designs and the potential of owning a ‘smart bike’.

I could impatiently wait to buy the Forestel but it’s almost asking for a miracle for these guys to have got it perfect first time around. Twin levity looks interesting but I can’t find a single comment from a single owner yet. The fact @Rob Rides EMTB is getting one soon is about the only reason I’ll hold on I think.

So for now, setup/tweak mine, demo the rise (maybe it blows my mind) and decide after.

Its easy to imagine the motor won’t be responsive or have other issues but I’m secretly optimistic given how innovative and ambitious the project is.

How can they come up with this stuff and not get the basics right were blueprints already exist...plus they have the manufacturing facilities, it’s too much to gamble almost with a guaranteed success. Here’s hoping!