Which for steep techy dh between SL or Rise?

[carlbiker]

Just going back to this @Gary might laugh whenever someone has half a brain to spend 10 mins on some research (or he has a goldmine under his kingdom or maybe suffers Numerophobia ) but here there is £1440 higher price for £681 difference in parts and that doesn’t include everything, doesn’t seem worth the extra value unless Im missing something? For the same you could buy the m20 and upgrade front/rear suss and slacken the head angle for dh perhaps, just a thought.....

 

[Zimmerframe]

Good point there, but the power on the rise I think is a lot closer to a FF than a levo by looks of things due to the 60nm of torque and since it’s lighter the power is even more comparable to FF, similar as how the 320w battery is the same as a 500w FF due to being lighter and the motor is more efficient by looks. I think I’ll work harder for the climbs still but maybe not much more, for improved agility I’d trade in a heartbeat, I’ve not ruled out an SL as there easy to buy second hand but that power difference is there

I keep running all this through myself in my endless pondering's of which lightweight to buy ..

Don't expect that the Orbea or the SL perform some kind of energy magic.

Yes, a lighter bike will be more manoeuvrable. But the weight of the bike and rider is the overall mass which still needs to be raised up a hill, a couple of KG's difference in bike weight won't save you 30% battery.

Basically if you get up a hill and use 500wh on a FF, but you get up a hill using 320,350,380wh (depending on your bike choice) - then it will be your body providing the majority of difference. (We're assuming you use the whole battery to get up the hill in this example).

The Mahle is pretty efficient at 80% (300w pulled, gives 240w power) - the others are pretty similar though (ballpark).

If you like to turbo up lots of climbs, then the lightweight isn't for you, unless you're willing to give that up. The advantage the Orbea has over the SL is that if there's a steep climb or you want to go a bit faster - you can up the power - but you'll then be using more battery. It's still a Shimano EP8, just with the power capped lower than standard.

The advantage the SL has over the Orbea, is that even in Turbo, you still have pretty good range/altitude as the motor's only pulling 300w maximum (compared to a FF brose/bosch 700-750)

If you rode everywhere in Turbo on your Rise and everywhere turbo on your 500wh full fat - yes, you might get similar range due to the reduced power of the EP8RS, but you'd probably do the ride about 20%-30% slower - because you have less power.

Ultimately, most people adjust, get on with it - enjoy it. But not everyone.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Just going back to this @Gary might laugh whenever someone has half a brain to spend 10 mins on some research (or he has a goldmine under his kingdom or maybe suffers Numerophobia )

He's Scottish, he has the same spreadsheets for ladies. Once the Cummings and Goings don't balance - they're out of there !

 

[Zimmerframe]

but here there is £1440 higher price for £681 difference in parts and that doesn’t include everything, doesn’t seem worth the extra value unless Im missing something? For the same you could buy the m20 and upgrade front/rear suss and slacken the head angle for dh perhaps, just a thought.....

Have you thought about a Wild ? Much better spec for less money !

The Rise must be one of the hardest bikes for people to justify to their better half.

For years it's been, well honey, yes it's £2000 more, but it has better, bigger, longer, stronger suspension, better and bigger brakes, more power bla bla bla

Now it's , yes honey , it's only £2000 more and has the same equipment as that £3000 bike I sold 5 years ago . It has the same motor as that cheap bike from Chain Reaction, but they've turned the power down so it's slower and by using the latest technology from 1982, they've managed to squeeze in one of those cheapo low capacity batteries from 8 years ago.

Yes honey, I know it sounds exactly like @steve_sordy's focus from years ago but with worse spec - but the add on battery isn't as ugly and that's worth £3000 difference.

 

[Mteam]

your spreadsheet is missing the different brakes on each model (presumably because you plan to ditch whatever brakes come on the bike and use what you already have) , which will close the gap in price between the two bikes a little.

But - yes - this is a common thing with bikes, sometimes buying the full bike is more expensive that buying everything separate and building up, or buying the base model, selling the bits you dont want and upgrading bits.

The price difference gets even steeper when you consider you could sell the bits on the m20 you dont want, and that you can (or used to be able to before this shortage of parts) get a lot of bits with a fair discount off rrp.

It does of course assume that you can get hold of all the upgrade parts, and you dont mind spending the time faffing around fitting them. And if you're the sort of person who claims on bike warranties all the time, by swapping some bits over you do give yourself potentially more of a headache if the dealer tries to argue one of your upgraded/changed parts caused a problem - unlikely I know, but still.

 

[Pigin]

Oow I love a nice spreadsheet me! The family take the mickey every time I produce yet another ?

What I am reading in it is that companies know that blokes in particular want the biggest, bestest, quickest, blingyest thing out there. So they certainly get me looking at the what if I spend just a little bit more scenarios. How many of us look the other way and say what if I spent a little bit less. ??.

Theres the ”law” of diminishing returns and as such it’s always prudent to ask the question about actually noticing the difference in a way that you could live with or without such and such feature and would just upgrade when the times comes to replace it. You spend £7k and then need to replace worn out stuff = miffed. You spend £5.5k and look forward to all the research of your possible next upgrades.

Of the two I would absolutely go for the ……….. nope I can’t make your mind up for you model. ?

 

[CjP]

Have you thought about a Wild ? Much better spec for less money !

Have you not read post 1?

 

[Jackware]

Never mind all this pish about geo, weight and power - just choose the bike in your favourite colour.

 

[Jimbo Vills]

Never mind all this pish about geo, weight and power - just choose the bike in your favourite colour.

True! But with the orbea you can pick any colour you like!!

just to totally blow your mind ?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Just did a full test in boost on the Rise.
15 miles and 2950ft climbing.
Just for comparison, around 87kg kitted up.

https://strava.app.link/1fHFJGrq0fb

 

[CjP]

Just did a full test in boost on the Rise.
15 miles and 2950ft climbing.
Just for comparison, around 87kg kitted up.

https://strava.app.link/1fHFJGrq0fb View attachment 60647

How much battery left?

 

[carlbiker]

Have you thought about a Wild ? Much better spec for less money !

The Rise must be one of the hardest bikes for people to justify to their better half.

For years it's been, well honey, yes it's £2000 more, but it has better, bigger, longer, stronger suspension, better and bigger brakes, more power bla bla bla

Now it's , yes honey , it's only £2000 more and has the same equipment as that £3000 bike I sold 5 years ago . It has the same motor as that cheap bike from Chain Reaction, but they've turned the power down so it's slower and by using the latest technology from 1982, they've managed to squeeze in one of those cheapo low capacity batteries from 8 years ago.

Yes honey, I know it sounds exactly like @steve_sordy's focus from years ago but with worse spec - but the add on battery isn't as ugly and that's worth £3000 difference.

Ah yes my Zim, but I have the video evidence of an experiment go wrong remember?


Hence my quote about h&s reasons, had I been on the rise, this amazing amount of agility and the fact the rise instantly turns me into a pro rider makes this a compulsory non negotiable purchase.......(does this work?) ?

Surely @Zimmerframe has enough footage to buy a bespoke custom build?? Ps I’d love to see some zimmy hits btw!

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

How much battery left?

Zero. Ran out 100m from the van.

 

[Mteam]

Just did a full test in boost on the Rise.
15 miles and 2950ft climbing.
Just for comparison, around 87kg kitted up.

https://strava.app.link/1fHFJGrq0fb View attachment 60647

Thats probably just a little less than I would expect to get out of my 640wh bosch gen 4 wild fs on boost all the way and trying to keep the speed high (maybe 13mph average ) , typically I'd see 3500feet and around 18 miles. I'm 82kg.

what was your average speed on that ride? Not sure whether the time on that image is total time including stops, or just moving time.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Just for comparison, around 87kg kitted up.

Do you think you could get that up a bit ? You'd have more chance of getting you some sponsorship from a pie company or fast food chain if you looked more like you used the product.

 

[Zimmerframe]

what was your average speed on that ride?

I'm guessing there's verious slows and stops in there and strava's not picked them all up, so the average speed is probably lower than it really was at a guess.

 

[Mteam]

View attachment 60653

I'm guessing there's verious slows and stops in there and strava's not picked them all up, so the average speed is probably lower than it really was at a guess.

It cant be the real moving avg speed, as that avg speed is probably slower than I'd expect to do the same ride on an unassisted bike - tend to avg 6.5 to 7.5mph on an unassisted bike riding proper offroad/hills etc

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Thats probably just a little less than I would expect to get out of my 640wh bosch gen 4 wild fs on boost all the way and trying to keep the speed high (maybe 13mph average ) , typically I'd see 3500feet and around 18 miles. I'm 82kg.

what was your average speed on that ride? Not sure whether the time on that image is total time including stops, or just moving time.

We had multiple long stops ?

 

[carlbiker]

Oow I love a nice spreadsheet me! The family take the mickey every time I produce yet another ?

What I am reading in it is that companies know that blokes in particular want the biggest, bestest, quickest, blingyest thing out there. So they certainly get me looking at the what if I spend just a little bit more scenarios. How many of us look the other way and say what if I spent a little bit less. ??.

Theres the ”law” of diminishing returns and as such it’s always prudent to ask the question about actually noticing the difference in a way that you could live with or without such and such feature and would just upgrade when the times comes to replace it. You spend £7k and then need to replace worn out stuff = miffed. You spend £5.5k and look forward to all the research of your possible next upgrades.

Of the two I would absolutely go for the ……….. nope I can’t make your mind up for you model. ?

Oh you bastardo! I was reading this in an overly eager way ready to go and buy the........dammit!

the more I look the more I’m steering to the £5.5k version, only issue however is say in a few years you goto sell, well it’s specced better than an M10 maybe but it’s still an M20, maybe I can scratch off the serial code and add with a carbon plate cover with M20 custom or somethin, any carbon upgrade is cool right?

Mteam also makes some good points about warranty xyz, feck with the geo, frame has snapped, I’d imagine they would be a write off....and that makes me reconsider the M10 which has a lovely fork I’m sure even if it’s only 150 travel

 

[carlbiker]

Zero. Ran out 100m from the van.

Pretty impressive planning by sounds!

Think they advertise 30-120mile range but I’m not sure what they based that on, sounds like rolling dh!

 

[Jimbo Vills]

Have you considered the e zesty Carl?

60nm and little more travel. Very similar to the rise ethos I think.

was just looking at one in the shop and very nice it looked too ?

 

[CjP]

Zero. Ran out 100m from the van.

That’s about what I expected given the torque, will be great with an extender.

 

[nomad66]

I’m steering to the £5.5k version,

one in leisure lakes bury

 

[carlbiker]

My lbs does a 10% discount but the m10 that’s inbound (one day) is already spoke for leaving a blue m20 instead so your talking 5k, I’m going to order that one I think and upgrade, could be a few months off however which would be a shame to lose the summer a little

 

[Mteam]

My lbs does a 10% discount but the m10 that’s inbound (one day) is already spoke for leaving a blue m20 instead so your talking 5k, I’m going to order that one I think and upgrade, could be a few months off however which would be a shame to lose the summer a little

I'd get the bike thats in stock now, rather than save £500 and wait months.

The extra £500 will be long forgotten with a summer of riding under your belt

 

[Tonybro]

one in leisure lakes bury

I mentioned this in my thread - it is not showing as in-stock so no-one knows it is there - I almost bought it but decided to go for the M10 as not in that much of a rush with a Merida to abuse in the meantime...

I spoke to Niall and used it for sizing to confirm I was a Large (which this M20 is...)

 

[nomad66]

i didnt look at size just seen 5.5k, they had 2 hecklers too,

 

[kmruuska]

the more I look the more I’m steering to the £5.5k version, only issue however is say in a few years you goto sell, well it’s specced better than an M10 maybe but it’s still an M20, maybe

I searched until I found a shop in Austria that had M20 upgraded with Fox 36, DPX2 and four piston Deores in stock for about €600 more than vanilla M20. They only deliver in Austria and Germany but I live near Germany and could use a colleague living across the border.

 

[carlbiker]

I'd get the bike thats in stock now, rather than save £500 and wait months.

The extra £500 will be long forgotten with a summer of riding under your belt

the demo bike that’s in is Medium sadly......and now there saying 10 days before it can be tested as there getting it invisi wrapped ?‍

 

[Mteam]

the demo bike that’s in is Medium sadly......and now there saying 10 days before it can be tested as there getting it invisi wrapped ?‍

Orbea Rise M20 2021 (e-bikeshop.co.uk)

They claim to have size large m20 coming in stock in june.