Which for steep techy dh between SL or Rise?
- Thread starter carlbiker
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carlbiker
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- Thread starter
- #153
Heh @carlbiker , as a few people have mentioned courses, I can thoroughly recommend this fella:
Mountain Bike Coaching and Guided Rides | Yorkshire & The Peak District
Mission Mountain Biking offers mountain bike coaching for beginners and intermediate riders. I also offer guided rides in Yorkshire and the Peak District.www.missionmountainbiking.co.uk
You’d have to meet at Dalby Forest though, but not too far from Leeds
Ah yes I actually had a session booked in months ago but alas covid crap! That reminds me I’ll try and rebook cheers ?
He might seem grumpy, because actually he cares about you (and your wallet) .. but he would know way way way way way more than me on the analysis of that and has no doubt ridden in real life many very similar setups and would comprehend the real world impact of such things ! I just keep watching the video of it and end up going ?
- it's been hurting my head ever since I first saw it.But if it's his birthday tomorrow then he'll be grumpy AND old and senile - so don't expect to get any sense out of him.
After this evenings ride I've knocked the lightweight bike idea on the head once and for all. If you're already knackered from working you can still get in a good ride on an FF. However, I was shot after only 800m climbing tonight and it was hugely affecting my incompetence on the descents - I'd have been wiped out much sooner on a lesser motored/batteried bike so going down would have been even more shoddy no matter how many thousands of grams lighter it might be !!
carlbiker
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- Thread starter
- #156
He might seem grumpy, because actually he cares about you (and your wallet) .. but he would know way way way way way more than me on the analysis of that and has no doubt ridden in real life many very similar setups and would comprehend the real world impact of such things ! I just keep watching the video of it and end up going ?
But if it's his birthday tomorrow then he'll be grumpy AND old and senile - so don't expect to get any sense out of him.
After this evenings ride I've knocked the lightweight bike idea on the head once and for all. If you're already knackered from working you can still get in a good ride on an FF. However, I was shot after only 800m climbing tonight and it was hugely affecting my incompetence on the descents - I'd have been wiped out much sooner on a lesser motored/batteried bike so going down would have been even more shoddy no matter how many thousands of grams lighter it might be !!
I just want to buy this one and prove to Gary you can buy skillz as I ride over pyramid shaped rocks without needing to manual or bunny hop, just cycling ?
is it confirmed that 60nm isn’t quite similar to FF torque in relative terms given the lw etc?
carlbiker
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- Thread starter
- #157
10 of the lightest eMTB's on sale today! - Singletrack Charged rotwild 85nm maybe?
Depends what you're comparing it to. An E7000 is also 60nm. The E8000 is 70nm. The EP8 RS is still all the same windings and internals as the EP8 - just software limited on how much power it can pull - so ultimately, most of the time it will feel like an EP8 - just with slightly less top end zoooooooom - ie, if you're not miss daisying along and only pulling 5w anyway.
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No it's not.
Lightweight ebike + you = ~100kg,60nm torque
Ff ebike + you =~106kg. 85nm torque
Nm per kg for lightweight bike =0.6nm per kg
Nm per kg for Ff bike =0.80 Nm per kg
Ff bike has about 30%more torque per kg
Not the worlds most accurate article .. The Levo SL for instance they have coming with a Brose Turbo SL 1.1 ....
Don't get too focused on just weight. Tyres can be 1kg difference between bikes if they've fitted it with inflatable condoms.
Also remember there are things like the Focus Jam bikes which are just over 20kg just search Steve_sordy. The old E-Sommets are 21 ? ish.
A lot of people like the Whyte's because it feels like the weight is low so it feels like a light bike on the move.
Have you tried an Orbea Wild ?
fenwick458
Active member
Ok my advice would be not to rush into any purchases and just ride more.
to put this into context, a few years ago when I was still riding my normal MTB, I took an E-MTB out on the same trials I normally did (Demo day at local trail centre)
and very quickly came to the conclusion that they were no good on steep techy stuff. I didn't have a bad day on them exactly but I was flat out downhill with no choice in the matter and I just knew that had I had to hesitate or stop suddenly it would end up bad(and that was in the middle of summer too when it was nice and dry) so was right on the edge you could say.
then fast forward a few years and I own an E bike, as I begin to get back onto those trails I have the same memories in my mind about the bike being less nimble and less controllable, so I didn't ride those steep trails so much and concentrate on more natural stuff or easy trail centres as I was recovering from an operation.
then a while later I start to notice a difference my riding technique even on the tamer stuff, and then as I progress back to the steeper stuff, it feels just the same as it ever did, and despite me putting in less effort in a more relaxed style of riding I seem to be just a fast as I ever was. I remember when I first got my e bike and I used to come to a puddle and pull up and noting happened, in comparison now I'm manualling like a mad man, and it doesn't seem any different. it makes me wonder what it would feel like to go back to a 14kg acoustic MTB!
A while back I remember remarking in an annoyed fashion that the current marketing trend for E-mtbs seems to be : lets put a pro DH biker on an EMTB and film it and sell it to public as a "look at what you can do on our bikes" message, when really I was thinking yeah more like "look at what our pro riders can do on our bikes" but at the end of the day, it shows what the the bike is capable of, you might just need a bit a bit of practice to get you there. good news though, the battery and motor will take you to the top every time with ease and you can get as many runs in as you need to hone your skills
also, another thing to think about, get your body weight and add it to your current bike weight. then get your body weight and add it to your desired lightweight e bike weight. you'll see that there is little difference in percentage terms, I had a think about this when I was in the market for one: eg 80Kg BW + 25kg bike = 105kg , or 80Kg BW + 17kg bike = 97Kg. thats an 8% difference in total weight, it's hardly massive when you put it into context
to put this into context, a few years ago when I was still riding my normal MTB, I took an E-MTB out on the same trials I normally did (Demo day at local trail centre)
and very quickly came to the conclusion that they were no good on steep techy stuff. I didn't have a bad day on them exactly but I was flat out downhill with no choice in the matter and I just knew that had I had to hesitate or stop suddenly it would end up bad(and that was in the middle of summer too when it was nice and dry) so was right on the edge you could say.
then fast forward a few years and I own an E bike, as I begin to get back onto those trails I have the same memories in my mind about the bike being less nimble and less controllable, so I didn't ride those steep trails so much and concentrate on more natural stuff or easy trail centres as I was recovering from an operation.
then a while later I start to notice a difference my riding technique even on the tamer stuff, and then as I progress back to the steeper stuff, it feels just the same as it ever did, and despite me putting in less effort in a more relaxed style of riding I seem to be just a fast as I ever was. I remember when I first got my e bike and I used to come to a puddle and pull up and noting happened, in comparison now I'm manualling like a mad man, and it doesn't seem any different. it makes me wonder what it would feel like to go back to a 14kg acoustic MTB!
A while back I remember remarking in an annoyed fashion that the current marketing trend for E-mtbs seems to be : lets put a pro DH biker on an EMTB and film it and sell it to public as a "look at what you can do on our bikes" message, when really I was thinking yeah more like "look at what our pro riders can do on our bikes" but at the end of the day, it shows what the the bike is capable of, you might just need a bit a bit of practice to get you there. good news though, the battery and motor will take you to the top every time with ease and you can get as many runs in as you need to hone your skills
also, another thing to think about, get your body weight and add it to your current bike weight. then get your body weight and add it to your desired lightweight e bike weight. you'll see that there is little difference in percentage terms, I had a think about this when I was in the market for one: eg 80Kg BW + 25kg bike = 105kg , or 80Kg BW + 17kg bike = 97Kg. thats an 8% difference in total weight, it's hardly massive when you put it into context
carlbiker
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- Thread starter
- #162
But to engage full torque requires probably boost unless EMTB kicks in at times, In any case is it needed really really? It’s very tempting to use and I do use but it does feel like it’s cheating and my chain wants to cry!
doesn’t sound anything does it 6kg with the rider weight but something is making these lighter bikes I’ve tested feel amazing
carlbiker
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- Thread starter
- #163
Ok my advice would be not to rush into any purchases and just ride more.
to put this into context, a few years ago when I was still riding my normal MTB, I took an E-MTB out on the same trials I normally did (Demo day at local trail centre)
and very quickly came to the conclusion that they were no good on steep techy stuff. I didn't have a bad day on them exactly but I was flat out downhill with no choice in the matter and I just knew that had I had to hesitate or stop suddenly it would end up bad(and that was in the middle of summer too when it was nice and dry) so was right on the edge you could say.
then fast forward a few years and I own an E bike, as I begin to get back onto those trails I have the same memories in my mind about the bike being less nimble and less controllable, so I didn't ride those steep trails so much and concentrate on more natural stuff or easy trail centres as I was recovering from an operation.
then a while later I start to notice a difference my riding technique even on the tamer stuff, and then as I progress back to the steeper stuff, it feels just the same as it ever did, and despite me putting in less effort in a more relaxed style of riding I seem to be just a fast as I ever was. I remember when I first got my e bike and I used to come to a puddle and pull up and noting happened, in comparison now I'm manualling like a mad man, and it doesn't seem any different. it makes me wonder what it would feel like to go back to a 14kg acoustic MTB!
A while back I remember remarking in an annoyed fashion that the current marketing trend for E-mtbs seems to be : lets put a pro DH biker on an EMTB and film it and sell it to public as a "look at what you can do on our bikes" message, when really I was thinking yeah more like "look at what our pro riders can do on our bikes" but at the end of the day, it shows what the the bike is capable of, you might just need a bit a bit of practice to get you there. good news though, the battery and motor will take you to the top every time with ease and you can get as many runs in as you need to hone your skills
also, another thing to think about, get your body weight and add it to your current bike weight. then get your body weight and add it to your desired lightweight e bike weight. you'll see that there is little difference in percentage terms, I had a think about this when I was in the market for one: eg 80Kg BW + 25kg bike = 105kg , or 80Kg BW + 17kg bike = 97Kg. thats an 8% difference in total weight, it's hardly massive when you put it into context
yeah it’s like the rise video I posted which is possibly the best video I’ve watched of trail gnarly! No clue who he is but there’s no way I’ll ever be able to do what he does even when Uber releases there self driving emtb!
Right now, the acoustic bikes (love that) weigh like 16kg, mines 22kg but they are totally different, maybe it’s how the added battery weight is positioned or something else. All have better forks, slacker head angles and other upgrades.
This is the irony, I did all this thinking hence buying an ebike as a few extra kg of ‘bike weight’ would be compensated from the power and if anything there should be more traction and bigger brakes would fix the pendulum effect dh....nope, she looks dh, engages nitro and brakes seem to shit theirselves. Get on a half priced acoustic with half working brakes and I feel almost as good as Gary with infinity skill
#fkknows
Gyre
Well-known member
Totally agree that SL makes no sense on paper in terms of top power/weight ratios.
If an SL bike has an close-enough mode to your preferred FF mode and the hit to battery range is tolerable, then an SL bike makes a better argument for itself.
Jeezus ..after just flicking through this thread ..Im bored senseless.. let me know when Carl has made his mind up and maybe someone could do a brief summary ..
fenwick458
Active member
I'm fairly certain that it's all in your mind. just keep riding your bike, let me know if nothing has changed in 6 months
Yes very happy with the Cube but you can't get away from the fact they are heavy beasts, I'm 56 and starting to lose a bit of upper body strengthoooooo the plot thickens, please feel free to elaborate
Rosemount
E*POWAH Elite
Gee thanks Buddy !
Rosemount
E*POWAH Elite
Woohoo.. ?
Pleased for you ..but are you absolutely sure ?
There is still time to change your mind ....?
Pleased for you ..but are you absolutely sure ?
There is still time to change your mind ....?
Don't RISE to it @carlbiker he's trying to make you WILD. If I was you I'd FORE-STALL the decision until you're sure.
I hear Steve Peat is now super busy at Wharncliffe woods blocking off all the DH trails so he can remain KOM
Come on then, don't keep us in suspense, what did you decide?
Didn't you read the spreadsheet?
Nah.. Me neither
Nah.. Me neither
@carlbiker who gave you the information on the Wild having warranty invalidated due to upping the fork travel
I ride a wild fs team full carbon
Been on it a year and yes it took some time to get used to the bigger wheels
The longer wheelbase and weight etc but I love mine
Still have my trail bike,a 160mm bird aeris 27.5 and Havnt rode it in a year since I owned the eeb
I’ve adapted my riding,learned to take tight corners better,
I ride same steep techy stuff as my mates on trail bikes and in some parts are faster than them due to the added speed generated from the weight
If you know of heard of the tweed valley in Scotland it has some of the steepest trails in the Uk and I can ride them fine,with in my skill level!!
As with the tyres I’d say try a different tyre,make as I wasn’t a fan of the DHF but know others who like it
Personal preference! The head angle on the wild is on par with most bikes and isn’t too bad,
If you haven’t been riding steep techy DH trails king then jumping on an Eeb probably was the best idea,they do make you work for your smiles
I ride a wild fs team full carbon
Been on it a year and yes it took some time to get used to the bigger wheels
The longer wheelbase and weight etc but I love mine
Still have my trail bike,a 160mm bird aeris 27.5 and Havnt rode it in a year since I owned the eeb
I’ve adapted my riding,learned to take tight corners better,
I ride same steep techy stuff as my mates on trail bikes and in some parts are faster than them due to the added speed generated from the weight
If you know of heard of the tweed valley in Scotland it has some of the steepest trails in the Uk and I can ride them fine,with in my skill level!!
As with the tyres I’d say try a different tyre,make as I wasn’t a fan of the DHF but know others who like it
Personal preference! The head angle on the wild is on par with most bikes and isn’t too bad,
If you haven’t been riding steep techy DH trails king then jumping on an Eeb probably was the best idea,they do make you work for your smiles
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carlbiker
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- Thread starter
- #179
Okay so this will make you all happy and I get to prove doubters wrong at the same time! ?
ebikeshop I’ve just stuck £200 deposit down as the 12/12 order (next batch is the new model in November) but the bike isn’t ready until July so I get to see if I can solve any current issues.
If by July the wild has redeemed itself I’ll give to the missus! (larger than normal *cough cough*). There’s 18 months interest free, so £300 ish per month, it’s not really 7k is it then and my target then well I can sell stuff, maybe do clinical trials or the odd body part, by all accounts it probably won’t impact on any performance so happy days, actually if anything the lighter weight would gain me more agility!!
My lbs annoyingly can’t commit me a bike, but can offer a demo and ‘maybe’ a bike, I’ve no idea, have to wait back, kicker as they do 10% off.....no doubt an M10 will just pop up law of the sod and all that
carlbiker
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- Thread starter
- #180
Hey welcome to the fun house new member! ?
This was the LBS as they had an M20
available and after doing a quick comparison it would have made more sense to go the upgrade route and end up with better parts.
What’s eeb stand for? I bet your carbon version is lovely! Good to hear some adjustments have made things good for you, hopefully I’m as fortunate.....this sport you have to push the boundaries as there’s so little time hence my enormous amount of enquiry but at least I’m not giving up just yet!
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