Which for steep techy dh between SL or Rise?

[Zimmerframe]

Forestal | Cyon

Forestal Cyon, a lightweight trail eMTB with integrated EonDrive, built-in smart dashboard and efficient Aurora battery.

forestal.com

150mm travel front and back. 360wh battery. 60nm motor. 17kg's. Range extender available soon.

June Delivery. €8299 - but you'd get the Tax free price because you're not in the EU . So €6915 . / £5970.

And the best bit, Boris forgot to tell the government what he told everyone else "Be prepared" ... Prepared for what, no one knew. So rather than sticking to the agreement/EU laws, 90% of stuff is just being let through as they only have 3 customs guys trained up and the 10 new ones will take a year to train. So there's a good chance you'll not have to pay tax on it (don't blame me if you don't win customs roulette) - Don't forget to say it's a present for yourself then they can mark it "Gift" ?? ?

It also comes with free data connection, which for you is perfect as once the Mrs finds out you'll be homeless and that will become a vital essential to be able to check Strava and watch youtube on your bike once you've moved into the Forestal packing box.

Not to mention that it comes with a bike cover so people can hide the fact that they have a new bike from their partners !

And lights ! There's no reason you shouldn't have some basic essentials just because your homeless.

 

[nomad66]

June Delivery. €8299 - but you'd get the Tax free price because you're not in the EU . So €6915 . / £5970.

it that the price at cheakout? for uk

 

[carlbiker]

Orbea Rise M20 2021 (e-bikeshop.co.uk)

They claim to have size large m20 coming in stock in june.

I just saw the message about lakes having one, I’ll call them now, abs check with ebikes too cheers

 

[Zimmerframe]

it that the price at cheakout? for uk

Sorry, started this ages ago , had to go cut some trees .....

Uhmmm ... just went to pretend buy from UK :

I might have to buy one, have it delivered to the UK and hope I win customs roulette then bring it back over to France on Rob Warners Jet Ski ...... If I get stopped by customs I'll flash them one of @carlbiker's spreadsheets and they'll wonder off with their minds blown.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I’m really intrigued by the Forestal and this Bafang motor / battery and to see how the 60Nm holds up to the Rise / Levo SL

 

[Zimmerframe]

I’m really intrigued by the Forestal and this Bafang motor / battery and to see how the 60Nm holds up to the Rise / Levo SL

Any news on a demo ? or press bikes ??? I asked if I could have one to destroy and they politely declined .. madness

They need something real world out there. I suspect a lot of people are holding off on ordering out of the unknown. I've had so many in and out of my basket that I had to email them to replace it because it was worn out.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Any news on a demo ? or press bikes ??? I asked if I could have one to destroy and they politely declined .. madness

Yes hopefully by the end of May

 

[Gary]

@Gary might laugh whenever someone has half a brain to spend 10 mins on some research

what is laughable is that you seem to spend far longer on pointless research than you do actually riding. And you still can't work out why you aren't improving very quickly.
#AbsoluteGenius

 

[carlbiker]

View attachment 60675

Sorry, started this ages ago , had to go cut some trees .....

Uhmmm ... just went to pretend buy from UK :

View attachment 60682

I might have to buy one, have it delivered to the UK and hope I win customs roulette then bring it back over to France on Rob Warners Jet Ski ...... If I get stopped by customs I'll flash them one of @carlbiker's spreadsheets and they'll wonder off with their minds blown.

Ohhhh, this is officially a spanner in the works!!! Makes the rise look like a spectrum with dial up internet, but actually not even that good!

Okay that’s the rise impulse buy on hold goddamit!!

Forestal | Siryon not sure on the major difference here but it’s got a slacker head angle at 64 which is interesting, they even have a dh one at 63. Love the integrated screen and various things on this bike....

 

[carlbiker]

what is laughable is that you seem to spend far longer on pointless research than you do actually riding. And you still can't work out why you aren't improving very quickly.
#AbsoluteGenius

I can’t help you with tour anti-research fetish or excel phobia, what might seem scary for you, literally, took me 10 minutes and proved it’s a better buy to get the non ‘top of the range’ m20 over the I MUST HAVE, MUST HAVE ‘top of the range’ model ?.

Again with those little blinkers you have you’ve even failed to spot Mteam (who by the way offers sense without the constant negative style, but I appreciate you get wet a lot more than most where you are!) highlighting the point the sheet showed that the top model is often not the best value one and here the M20 is worth having a closer look at ?‍

in terms of wasting time, I actually waste more time replying to your bollocks which half the time isn’t relevant to the topic but nvm, if it keeps you entertained I guess that’s useful

Appreciate the compliment ?

#

 

[Mteam]

Ohhhh, this is officially a spanner in the works!!! Makes the rise look like a spectrum with dial up internet, but actually not even that good!

Okay that’s the rise impulse buy on hold goddamit!!

Forestal | Siryon not sure on the major difference here but it’s got a slacker head angle at 64 which is interesting, they even have a dh one at 63. Love the integrated screen and various things on this bike....

I thought you concluded that you need to ride the bike before you buy?

I thought you'd ridden the rise and liked it in preference to the wild?

If you haven't, then you really need to ride whatever you buy otherwise you're at risk of repeating your mistake, just in a different way.

I'm not saying everyone should ride a bike before buying it, I'm quite comfortable buying a bike based on geo, specs and others reviews.

 

[carlbiker]

I thought you concluded that you need to ride the bike before you buy?

I thought you'd ridden the rise and liked it in preference to the wild?

If you haven't, then you really need to ride whatever you buy otherwise you're at risk of repeating your mistake, just in a different way.

I'm not saying everyone should ride a bike before buying it, I'm quite comfortable buying a bike based on geo, specs and others reviews.

Yeah massively correct there for sure!! This bike is totally new to me, I don’t even know if this will land in the shops over here but face value makes me want to enquire and find out more

LBS have decided they now want to invisiwrap so I can’t demo it for 10 more days ?, they haven’t in the past....not ideal, it’s also a medium

LBS has an M20 inbound but I need to check tomorrow if it’s July, other place has 3 also around July, I’ll get to test before buying on this one but I’ll have to stick a deposit down of £199 or the July ones will be gone I imagine if I wait....

but now there is this spacecraft of a bike making me think it’s worth £199 for a deposit and see if we get any over here before July to check out.....if by miracle I could get my hands on one then I could see about a refund on the deposit or push to someone else, or forfeit

 

[Pigin]

I have no clue about this shop other than they stock Orbea and might have something in stock.

Orbea Rise M20 2021 Electric Bike

The all new 2021 Orbea Rise M20 Shimano EP8 electric full suspension ebike. Available today from the UK's premier Orbea eBike dealer. Learn More »

www.e-bikeshop.co.uk

 

[carlbiker]

I have no clue about this shop other than they stock Orbea and might have something in stock.

Orbea Rise M20 2021 Electric Bike

The all new 2021 Orbea Rise M20 Shimano EP8 electric full suspension ebike. Available today from the UK's premier Orbea eBike dealer. Learn More »

www.e-bikeshop.co.uk

they have 3 L for pre order cheers

 

[Gary]

I've never wasted any of my time reading any if your spreadsheets.
The best value bike is and always will be the one you ride the most and gives you the most pleasure.
I hope you actually spend more time learning how to ride whatever bike accumulates the most spreadsheet points from all your research. I really do.

 

[Gary]

If in terms of wasting time, ifyou genuinely did happen to waste more time replying to my bollocks than fannying around researching and collating spreadsheets about products you've absolutely no experience of you might like to learn that every time you quote or tag a user here they receive a notification inviting their response.

 

[carlbiker]

 

[carlbiker]

Whatever this guy is on, I want plus the bike ?

 

[carlbiker]

@Zimmerframe ever notice this one? ROTWILD R.E375 Pro

 

[carlbiker]

If in terms of wasting time, ifyou genuinely did happen to waste more time replying to my bollocks than fannying around researching and collating spreadsheets about products you've absolutely no experience of you might like to learn that every time you quote or tag a user here they receive a notification inviting their response.

@Gary you know, I might do a spreadsheet on how many uplifting positive enlightening comments @Gary post on this forum.....sadly it would be my most boring one yet @Gary ?

Thanks @Gary for the info on how notifications work @Gary they must have missed this in my 101 Google marketing course @Gary ?

 

[Jackware]

@Gary you know, I might do a spreadsheet on how many uplifting positive enlightening comments @Gary post on this forum.....sadly it would be my most boring one yet @Gary ?

Thanks @Gary for the info on how notifications work @Gary they must have missed this in my 101 Google marketing course @Gary ?

This confirms my suspicion that you're actually an excitable 12 year old.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Now now ladies and gents, lets not to forget to be patient with each other - we're not married.

@Gary We often learn more from making our own mistakes - Carl's learnt a lot .. You know by now that Carl has his own way of working through these things and in the meantime we end up with an entertaining thread ! I don't know about you, but I keep a spreadsheet to keep track of his adventures !

@carlbiker Don't get Grumpy with Gary. Have you ever seen the documentary Braveheart with Mel Gibson ? Full of historical inaccuracy's. Like "Freedom" was shortened from "Freedom of expression". They spent years fighting each other because Gary's ancestors insisted wheels should be round but the stupid southerners knew that square worked best.

@Jackware We ride around the woods on bicycles with our mates and come home tired, muddy, bruised, wet & cut - I think we're all excitable 12 year olds inside still.

 

[Zimmerframe]

@Zimmerframe ever notice this one? ROTWILD R.E375 Pro

Yes, they're nice and often overlooked. There's also the R.X375 with a slightly different frame and 150/140 at about 18.4kg's with Fox 36's too. Sadly they don't seem to send them to Rob to review them. It came up in a thread recently because it has a nice single button battery release.

 

[Jackware]

I see you understand sarcasm... 12yr old kid, I’d love to see how you reach that conclusion, when someone is being childish it’s sometimes fun to outchild them, sorry if this upset you

How many unrelated pops has Gary had in this thread alone yet you launch to his defence because I dare to pull lord Gary for feasting on negativity at every opportunity? Forgive me for offering zero apologies but feel proud for placing your support to the negative one, maybe you enjoy that kind of thing

forums/communities are meant to be joyous places where people come together to offer ‘positive’ feedback and you grow as a collective. So far the Facebook version of this forum is way more friendly and without any of this bs but then you can’t be xyz and hide away as easily I guess.

Sorry but I see Gary throwing his weight around this place in fairly brutal fashion and whilst other people might be a little intimidated I’m not one for taking crap from these types.

Alas we have yet another of my threads being derailed yet again....?

I should have added a laughing face after my post and it certainly wasn't a defense of Gary's brusque manner, though invariably however unpalatable his opinions are he's normally on the money.

I think this forum is generally friendly and people offer their honest opinions just as friends would - in your case people (possibly including Gary) see someone who's maybe too quick to look for expensive solutions and are concerned that despite all your spreadsheets you'll not be happy 6 months down the line.

 

[slippery pete]

....not ideal, it’s also a medium

Are you demoing a bike in a size smaller than you intend to buy, trying to resolve agility issues?

 

[carlbiker]

I should have added a laughing face after my post and it certainly wasn't a defense of Gary's brusque manner, though invariably however unpalatable his opinions are he's normally on the money.

I think this forum is generally friendly and people offer their honest opinions just as friends would - in your case people (possibly including Gary) see someone who's maybe too quick to look for expensive solutions and are concerned that despite all your spreadsheets you'll not be happy 6 months down the line.

I get the message and do read between the lines (and appreciate advice) but if it is the bike and not the spreadsheet writer then all the negativity may be pretty misplaced...

There’s one thing being knowledgable, there’s another being bigoted, that’s all I’m saying.

Ive a sense of humour (I often pop my head up to invite banter), and to an extent happy to take shit even if it’s unwarranted but the quality of a thread drops when stupid stuff gets in the way, if it’s not production or relevant I don’t get the point

Fact: lighter bikes are more agile
Fact: rise and levo are lighter bikes
Fact: I ride more then I write spreadsheets
Fact: I’ve made one spreadsheet in 3 months
Fact: Ex FF seem to prefer the lighter bikes
Fact: Every bike I test seems to handle better
Fact: I’d like to upgrade the suspension
Fact: This post alone has taken 3x longer than that one spreadsheet
Fact: I’ve ridden 450miles recently, I’ve written about 3 spreadsheets in two years ?

Earlier I went over saddleworth way to meet one of our ‘friendly’ members (eternal thanks btw, absolute gent) who just so happens to own an Orbea Wild and loves it.....he put me through abit of a warm up (I think also to make sure I wasn’t as shit as Gary likes to suggest) and we did abit of an XC loop, was fun having heards of sheep be our tour guides and also randomly facing a bull head on the track (that was like a wtf now kind of moment!) with all the hailstone and random weather changes!

His was an XL and a lovely 38 fox (I’m L 35) so we swapped bikes and sessioned a pacy mild decent, wow it was like I was floating on a cloud, I loved his, he didn’t like mine as much (maybe setup) but gave some suggestions which I’ll try out. It also looks like the L is too small for me as I’m pretty scrunched up and on his it felt a lot better. I’ll put my original stem back on, move the seat back and take a couple tokens out.

I’ve barely visited this forum over the last few months as I’ve been riding every week and been making some decent progress in areas but like I’ve said I’ve issues with the bike vs almost every other one I test. There has to be a point were you stop investing in something if it’s not feeling right.

My gripe is I’m growing in confidence but turning down things because of how the bike is or I go and it’s survival mode, I try it on other bikes and time slows down and there’s traction/agility to boot. It’s like the marble video I posted, heavier goes faster BUT I will try new tyres, after this and a couple tweaks it’s time to move on, if anyone local disagrees I’m happy to be proved wrong and let them try my bike out on steep dh gnarly shiz.....

So fb, I posted a similar thing regarding that spreadsheet and there wasn’t a single snidey comment by anyone, quite the contrary and others had done similar resulting in buying the £5,500 m20. You guys must have a serious amount of cash to spend if you feel it’s not worth figuring this stuff out.....but ofc that’s not the point and it’s actually the rider who’s trying to pay to fix for his utter lack of skill, damn if only I could realise that ?

I would like to dispel this lack of skill theory once and for all so may I present you this:


ps that’s a joke (I feel advisory is required)

 

[carlbiker]

Are you demoing a bike in a size smaller than you intend to buy, trying to resolve agility issues?

not quite but good observation there ?. Atm I can’t say for sure if I’d be better with a size M, L, XL and after today’s ride I’ve no idea what size rise would suit, they will never have various sizes to try instore or have more versions to try as a demo...but my lbs are pretty cool guys tbh, they would take the bike back after me riding one. The cube Kathmandu I bought originally was 6 weeks old and they very kindly allowed me to swap for the wild but back then I was happy just being able to pootle down trails and the odd little descent etc, kind of ‘nob’ about type stuff.....for reasons unknown I have greater desire for overcoming tough challenges which is an expensive problem ? (brakes, suspension upgrades wanted etc)

So the demo M would at least give me a rough idea on how it feels on certain terrain

 

[Mteam]

Carl, remind me again which model of wild fs do you currently have? Can't remember....

 

[slippery pete]

If I skirt around the whole "rider skill" distraction, this maybe sounds like there's a setup issue with your Wild. It's really hard to diagnose these sorts of things over the internet but...

You've said: "doesn't modulate well" and described Saints modulating better (than MT7s?)

So we're talking about brakes here but you intend to carry them over to the new bike. What's the thinking?

You've said: "doesn't turn well" and "has a sharp pendulum shift".

If this is connected with the aforementioned braking, I think you mean it dives a lot on braking (I'm trying to interpret, so don't take it out on me if I'm wrong).

This is why I'm drawn to thinking there's a setup issue. Grabbing a handful of brake and suffering a whole load of brake dive is going to be unsettling. Sure, a lot of that can come down to modulation and inputs but also it sounds like your setup is on the soft side.

Now all setup is a compromise, so if you went trying to firm up the suspension you'll lose something on the flip side. You may lose some of the cushy, plush feeling. You may have to up-end some of your thinking about exactly how your bike is feeling on other bits of trail - all in the search of better compromise.

FWIW, none of my bikes feel plush after I've got them setup for how I like to ride. They always feel firm and supportive but... at 60kmh over some pretty hectic terrain the suspension is doing what I need it to do, taking the edge off the hits and keeping me in control. In the tighter stuff it lets me tip into steep sections comfortable in the centre of the bike without any lurching around. That delivers the compromise I've arrived at over a number of years.

 

[BobR]

The original question about SL vs Rise on steep technical in my mind between these two is more about the climb than the downhill and therefore I chose the Rise due to twice the available torque and it would have been a way more difficult choice for me is the SL had the same power.