Which for steep techy dh between SL or Rise?

[carlbiker]

The head angles on all those bikes are within a gnats chuff of each other. It's hard to look at geo tables and work out how a bike is going to ride, but that cube has smaller wheels so logic says it might feel more agile than the wild. But there's more to bikes than geo tables and spec lists, go ride some and decide what you prefer.





Yes, it sounds sketchy and sounds like it requires a good amount of skill to ride. It also sounds the sort of thing I'd prefer to be on my normal bike for given the choice of that or my ebike,but then on the way back up I'd rather be on the ebike! I hate pedalling up more than I hate a bit less agility on the way down.

I think you're coming round to the realisation that all bikes are a compromise somewhere.

Right, hence why I want to try a lighter bike and get best of both worlds ?, what if this bike is good enough to not need your normal bike all of a sudden? On a normal bike I’d tackle these type of sections but quite often I see ebikers avoiding them altogether for obvious reasons.....it’s much more difficult because of being encumbered. Now you would get down it (and I’d love to be watching) but you’ve migrated up through multiple bikes to get to a point you can compensate where I would struggle, yet if I’m on the analogues I can do it almost likes it’s going in slow motion. Theres no short cuts as Gary will take delight in me saying, but I think id learn more on an analogue bike than a 25kg ebike atm.....but like you say losing on the uphill is a mare and actually will cost me learning time

 

[Gary]

point remains,

No. you've missed the point entirely Carl.

heavier will go faster dh and be less agile

except it's not as simple as that. those old DH bikes were heavy all over, heavy frames, shocks, forks, drivetrain, brakes etc. and many had particualrly heavy wheelsets and tyres. your bike on the other hand will have lighter wheels and the excess mass (motor and battery over a normal bike) has all been placed LOW and centrally around the BB and in the downtube. ie. YOUR 25kg BIKE IS ACTUALLY MORE NIMBLE THAN THE EQUIVALENT 22kg DH BIKE

your 22kg bike will feel like a tank compared to a 14kg bike and then the skill level required to master will be greater, wouldn’t you agree?

No. a light bike takes a lot of skill to master also. and in a DH only context there's definiteny a point when a bike becomes too light.

But after mastering the rise, it’s likely there would be zero aspirations to buy a heavier bike, I mean why buy a 25kg bike and then add carbon parts, kind of ironic I’d say

I've genuinely no idea what your are talking about with this new tangent. Except to justify your decision to buy another bike you think will make you a better rider instead of actually learning to ride the one you have well.

buy a new bike Carl. Can't wait to cheer you on at the 2022 Ft William World Cup.

 

[Gary]

but I think id learn more on an analogue bike than a 25kg ebike atm

Most beginners could actually learn more on a £500 hardtail but they'd have to actually put the time in.
All the basic skills required to ride mtb well can be practiced within a mile of pretty much any house in the UK.

 

[Rahr85]

If you want to try something on the other end of the scale carl i can always pop up to try some of the trails your way and you can try out a very slack 27.5" monster truck. ? (size medium)

 

[thebarber]

I haven't read most of the posts but you weren't happy from the get go.
You've got an e bike now so make the best of it but try as many others as you can and buy the one you click with.
Sell t'other ,done.
Shame as it seems like a cracking bike, but if the shoe doesn't fit.....

 

[Mteam]

I would struggle, yet if I’m on the analogues I can do it almost likes it’s going in slow motion

I'm amazed you find the difference between normal bike and ebike that great.

A lot of people say you should start ona cheap hardtail to learn the basics before going full suss, I'm not sure I agree with that, but maybe you're proving that to be correct.

 

[carlbiker]

I'm amazed you find the difference between normal bike and ebike that great.

A lot of people say you should start ona cheap hardtail to learn the basics before going full suss, I'm not sure I agree with that, but maybe you're proving that to be correct.

they do say that, I guess because maybe you have to feel out the terrain without being cushioned, lots of suss can also hide a lot of mistakes, like it takes alot even for me to mess up on one of these things but when you do it can be spectacular! I’d not be interested in a hard tail after being on full suss though, just a little more agility/control is all I‘m after

 

[Rahr85]

I'm still waiting on a warranty claim on my dropper post but the offer was genuine if you want to meet up at leeds urban bike park or greno woods (watch out for those trees) at a weekend i'd be happy to let you have a play on a 27.5 to see how agile a big travel bike can still be.

 

[carlbiker]

No. you've missed the point entirely Carl.

Im sure it was amazing In that case

YOUR 25kg BIKE IS ACTUALLY MORE NIMBLE THAN THE EQUIVALENT 22kg DH BIKE

I quite fancy exploring getting best of both worlds if possible, if you see this as pointless then maybe lookup Mteams feedback about preferring analogue in more tricky stuff and stop being blinkered about it all being about skill level

I've genuinely no idea what your are talking about with this new tangent. Except to justify your decision to buy another bike you think will make you a better rider instead of actually learning to ride the one you have well.

You say in your own comment people would learn more on a different bike......Rise might not be a hardtail but so what? It’s lighter, more agile and most likely easier to handle, 9kg lighter xyz. Maybe if Mteam had one he wouldnt have a preference for his analogue in certain situations, win/win and win again.

buy a new bike Carl. Can't wait to cheer you on at the 2022 Ft William World Cup.

Thanks but I’ve no interest in trying to break the speed barrier, where would you get that from? Remember ’nobberer’

 

[carlbiker]

I'm still waiting on a warranty claim on my dropper post but the offer was genuine if you want to meet up at leeds urban bike park or greno woods (watch out for those trees) at a weekend i'd be happy to let you have a play on a 27.5 to see how agile a big travel bike can still be.

I was thrown by ‘monster truck’ comment ? or do you have a wild also? Yeah if your up for that I’d be happy to ’entertain’ for the day, that much I can promise!! I’m ’in-between’ jobs/business/being a grown up atm so good to go! Actually aiming for a venture this Thursday with the rise whilst a pal borrows mine or if not then any other time is cool

 

[Rahr85]

Monster truck in the sense that the 180mm of travel +25kg weight gives you the ability to forget about what it in the way and just smash through it regardless of talent. Not that i advocate that style as the downside is that it can really numb the fun out of more average trails. Everything is a compromise, the whyte is as playful as you could really expect from something so heavy. It's low centre of gravity makes it feel a lot lighter on the move than it actually is, the compromise in that respect is taking the battery out is too much hassle to bother doing often.

I don't think we were talking about the same bike:

 

[Gary]

maybe lookup Mteams feedback about preferring analogue in more tricky stuff and stop being blinkered about it all being about skill level

As I've already told you I prefer riding normal bikes to Emtbs whatever the riding happens to be.
it doesn't change the fact that riding difficult/tricky terrain well is predominantly about skill (whatever bike you're riding)

You say in your own comment people would learn more on a different bike......Rise might not be a hardtail but so what?

Read that comment again. it wasn't about bike choice.

 

[carlbiker]

Monster truck in the sense that the 180mm of travel +25kg weight gives you the ability to forget about what it in the way and just smash through it regardless of talent. Not that i advocate that style as the downside is that it can really numb the fun out of more average trails. Everything is a compromise, the whyte is as playful as you could really expect from something so heavy. It's low centre of gravity makes it feel a lot lighter on the move than it actually is, the compromise in that respect is taking the battery out is too much hassle to bother doing often.

I don't think we were talking about the same bike:
View attachment 60535

wow that is a thing of beauty!!!!! 180 travel.......yours will be the first I’ll have seen ? I’ll make sure to try find some 30ft drops for you to roll!! ?

 

[Rahr85]

Self preservation kicks in well before anything resembling red bull sponsorship happens. ? I'm still fairly intermediate to average rider but this bike has really allowed me to find a slightly higher comfort zone and enjoy more riding.

 

[Mteam]

if you see this as pointless then maybe lookup Mteams feedback about preferring analogue in more tricky stuff

I don't prefer the normal bike to the extent that I'd rather pedal up the hill without assistance. And the difference between the normal bike and ebike is not a huge difference.

Like rhar I tend to have a more smash through it riding style rather than float over it, so I think a shorter travel bike like a rise would not suit my preferences despite the geo not being miles away from your typical enduro bike.

I haven't been to an uplift centre since I bought my ebike because of lockdown but when I do go I would take the normal bike not ebike because its more agile, but for everything else the ebike wins because it let's me get more downhills in for a given amount of effort.

I don't think a rise (or sl) would be a compromise I'd like to make, not enough sus travel for my smashy style,and I'm Not sure if the lower torque would be a negative, but if they did a 160mm travel version of the rise similar weight then I'd be interested in trying that.

 

[carlbiker]

Orbea Rise Review – Finally an E-bike I Love you would think I wrote this! ?

Orbea's Rise is a sleek and ultralight e-MTB @Mteam check the models here but maybe the fork could be upgraded to 160mm? The standard has 140mm but the m10 has fox 36 150mm, could sell the shock and maybe pop a 160 on

 

[CjP]

I can help here Carl.
Just buy a one size up Rise/SL and put a longer travel fork up front and an over stroked shock.
Then bring the seat forward a bit to bring back the seat angle. Throw on some proper tires and some good brakes and you will have your lightweight DH capable ebike that makes you work for the climbs.

 

[carlbiker]

I did this as I’m trying to work out which is the better buy if I’m to upgrade to a 160mm fork (that’s all being well), if I’m lucky I’ll get the 150mm to test out as I’m not sure what model the demo will be yet (if it even arrives tomorrow). Might be 150 is plenty enough already

 

[carlbiker]

I can help here Carl.
Just buy a one size up Rise/SL and put a longer travel fork up front and an over stroked shock.
Then bring the seat forward a bit to bring back the seat angle. Throw on some proper tires and some good brakes and you will have your lightweight DH capable ebike that makes you work for the climbs.

Hey Chris, appreciated! What’s your experience and what did you have last? I’m on a L wild now and that feels big, the reach is 455 there but 474 on the Rise L, not sure what the XL is but the height guide placed me in the L sizing (6ft). Incidentally I just saw someone posting an mteam for sale as his L came and was too small.....

I’ve MT7 brakes to port over and a carbon bar. Working is good, releases endorphins, I’ve not had many with the Wild yet ?

 

[Zimmerframe]

Why don't you just buy a forestal with the larger forks already on it ?

I'm completely with @Gary on everything he says as I know I fall into the need to learn how to ride category ..

But at the same time, there's a lot of joy to be shared in group shopping !

 

[CjP]

Hey Chris, appreciated! What’s your experience and what did you have last? I’m on a L wild now and that feels big, the reach is 455 there but 474 on the Rise L, not sure what the XL is but the height guide placed me in the L sizing (6ft). Incidentally I just saw someone posting an mteam for sale as his L came and was too small.....

I’ve MT7 brakes to port over and a carbon bar. Working is good, releases endorphins, I’ve not had many with the Wild yet ?

I’m 5’10 and came from an S4 Kenevo running 29s, now on a L SL with a bit of extra travel. It definitely goes down hill much better then stock and still has enough power to get back up.
As one can expect the lighter weight ebike is more agile and playful. Definitely no where near the pace of a FF bike but more than enough to make your analogue mates still hate you.
This all works for me, for my style of riding, so I would suggest you ride a lightweight before buying one.

Good luck

 

[carlbiker]

I’m 5’10 and came from an S4 Kenevo running 29s, now on a L SL with a bit of extra travel. It definitely goes down hill much better then stock and still has enough power to get back up.
As one can expect the lighter weight ebike is more agile and playful. Definitely no where near the pace of a FF bike but more than enough to make your analogue mates still hate you.
This all works for me, for my style of riding, so I would suggest you ride a lightweight before buying one.

Good luck

Cheers, sounds perfect! ? The other things no one seems to mention is if the battery runs out then it’s not all of a sudden end of the world I imagine, if mine ran out I’d be wanting to have a crash so that I could get air ambulanced home!

 

[CjP]

Cheers, sounds perfect! ? The other things no one seems to mention is if the battery runs out then it’s not all of a sudden end of the world I imagine, if mine ran out I’d be wanting to have a crash so that I could get air ambulanced home!

Lol the SL is much nicer to pedal off than a FF. Not sure about the Rise but I’d assume it would be similar.
Flat open trails, I don’t even have the motor on it rides that good.

 

[carlbiker]

Lol the SL is much nicer to pedal off than a FF. Not sure about the Rise but I’d assume it would be similar.
Flat open trails, I don’t even have the motor on it rides that good.

I am curious must admit to see how close these are to normal bikes, agility and epower must be a pretty special combo! If it helps to unlock gnarly stuff that requires more agility for someone like me then it would be worth the extra spend, proof will be in the pudding as the going says.....Lbs did try to sell me an SL originally but the firewall was already mad at me for changing to a £4k wild

not sure if you’ve watched Robs video but he seemed to fly off faster than a FF as you could hear the surprise in his voice!

 

[CjP]

Isn’t that the whole point to for better or worse, in sickness and health.
Tell her it’ll save the marriage as you will get fitter, be happier and spend less time on forums complaining about agility.

I just solved all your problems

Your welcome.

 

[carlbiker]

Isn’t that the whole point to for better or worse, in sickness and health.
Tell her it’ll save the marriage as you will get fitter, be happier and spend less time on forums complaining about agility.

I just solved all your problems

Your welcome.

This is the most sense anyone has ever spoken, honestly, I salute you!

Also my other half just bought one of these silly outdoor egg chairs from Aldi, there almost impossible to get and cost about £200, well she’s been wanting one for a year and now she can’t use it as she gets motion sickness as it sways about ?! It’s not much but I’ve already been maximising this poor wasteful purchase vs my future rise purchase which I need for health and safety reasons! *cough cough*

That and I’ll also show her this:

 

[Shinn]

@carlbiker

FWIW coming from ff haibike all mtn 7.0 with 27.5 wheels I can say my 29" Levo SL is so much more maneuverable IMHO anyway. I think its due to the weight more than anything. my local trails are very tight, hand cut trails. when I'm at a trail center with machine made trails I don't see much of a difference.

For me, I much prefer the SL and even more since I've added so many upgrades.

If I were you, I'd not worry about the trails but rather if you'll miss the power of a FF - if so, stick with what you have and get used to it. I live in the midwest where the terrain rolls, the climbs can be steep but rarely last more than 10min. If I were still in colorado I'd most likely opt for the power since many of the trails out there would require 2+ hours of climbing.

 

[CjP]

Also my other half just bought one of these silly outdoor egg chairs from Aldi, there almost impossible to get and cost about £200, well she’s been wanting one for a year and now she can’t use it as she gets motion sickness as it sways about ?!

You see always try before you buy! ?

Does she ride? You could let her ride the big bike and if she loves it you could buy the Rise so you can spend quality marriage saving time together.

 

[Tonybro]

I caved and bought my wife an eMTB too.

I wouldn't say it saved our marriage but has meant we do more outdoors together! Lots of points banked... ?

Also meant I could place an order for the Rise M10 too without any resistance! ?

 

[carlbiker]

@carlbiker

FWIW coming from ff haibike all mtn 7.0 with 27.5 wheels I can say my 29" Levo SL is so much more maneuverable IMHO anyway. I think its due to the weight more than anything. my local trails are very tight, hand cut trails. when I'm at a trail center with machine made trails I don't see much of a difference.

For me, I much prefer the SL and even more since I've added so many upgrades.

If I were you, I'd not worry about the trails but rather if you'll miss the power of a FF - if so, stick with what you have and get used to it. I live in the midwest where the terrain rolls, the climbs can be steep but rarely last more than 10min. If I were still in colorado I'd most likely opt for the power since many of the trails out there would require 2+ hours of climbing.

Good point there, but the power on the rise I think is a lot closer to a FF than a levo by looks of things due to the 60nm of torque and since it’s lighter the power is even more comparable to FF, similar as how the 320w battery is the same as a 500w FF due to being lighter and the motor is more efficient by looks. I think I’ll work harder for the climbs still but maybe not much more, for improved agility I’d trade in a heartbeat, I’ve not ruled out an SL as there easy to buy second hand but that power difference is there