What tyres? The Ultimate Tyre Thread

[Tmacca]

leant over properly a 2.35 or 2.5 minion (DHF, DHR or SS) at decently supportive pressures give me plenty cornering grip

Probably the main thing that gets me and lots of peeps i know. I film myself on sections of trail to get an idea of whats going on. Thought my bars were touching the ground in corners, but maybe not quite Lean over time
Before I go and test 29er front end configuration again, gonna do as you suggest and try my set of 30mm rims with 2.35 DHF/DHR from Trance, will have to use boost spacers.
I like the idea but pedal strikes blows goats, so will see what happens to BB height.
Cheers

 

[Stumpy]

Must have been all that double dampening from your fork

???

 

[Al Boneta]

My new winter tires arrived. They are huge!
Suomi Tyres Fat Freddie 650b 3”.

View attachment 4062

View attachment 4063

View attachment 4064

Are those from Finland?

 

[Tim29]

Quick tyre review,

Found the limits of the butchers quite quick on my local trails, issues I have faced with the butchers, they would sit on top of the dirt and often skate around, which has caused 3 or 4 crashes due to washing out the front, i can often feel the sidewalls flex alot into hard turns, very low braking ability which has caused several sketchy moments when it gets steep and trying to get my speed under control.

I have since fitted 2 Magic Mary DH Wirebead 2.6 tyres, and it has completely transformed the bike, I can run lower pressures without the undesired tyre flex I experienced with the butchers, there is a lot more grip under braking helping me get more control of the bike, i feel part of it rather than just been along for the ride. I can push the bike hard into corners and the front digs in and sends me in the right direction, very confidence inspiring and predictable tyres.

my findings are based on what i ride, steep, rutted, loamy, off-piste trails, it might have been different if I was riding more bike park/trail centre places, which I think the butchers are most likely more suited towards.

Thanks for that, exactly what i felt with that tire,

 

[Tim29]

Unlike a lot of riders, massive straight line grip is not something that I ever really crave, and when leant over properly a 2.35 or 2.5 minion (DHF, DHR or SS) at decently supportive pressures give me plenty cornering grip. One thing I think you may be missing, When using a big heavy draggy tyre all that extra weight and drag is way less of a problem climbing and at speeds of under 15mph on an Ebike than a non Ebike but all that extra drag still creates a far less nimble, less maneouverable bike. th difference in acceleration is pretty huge too, especially if accelerating past the 15mph assist cut off.

my Vitus came with a 35mm rim on the rear (and much more to my taste 30mm front) and I'd much rather the rear was 30mm too. it's not the end of the world and a 2.3 SS still works fine at that width so not really worth spending £50 and an hour of my time to switch out. If it had come with 40mm rims they would probably have been the first thing I'd have switched out along with the tyres (and tubeless)

Do your trail bike wheels have the same axle standards as your Ebike? might be worth switching complete wheels to see what you think.
The Kenevo is a much heavier bike than the Vitus and I'm not sure what sort of weight the wheelset is or how much difference losing tyre/rim weight will make to one but if you have the parts anyway I'd say it's worth trying. I'm like that though.

My bulls came with 35mm wheels front and rear, 27.5 front rear.
The Fantic came with 34x27.5 rear and 28x29 front. It’s considerably faster in and out of sweeping or berm turns, flat and off camber is struggles. If you make a mistake in chunk and thump something of size it leaves a mark. I have destroyed that 28x29er front wheel and i never run less the 30psi usually 31-36psi.
That was with a DHF 2.5 EVO.
Now i have a 30x29 up front with a 2.6. Holds berms with less tire roll, not quite as fast but haven’t chunked a wheel with a few line choices i clinched my teeth thought it was a goner.
I am on my 4th back hoop this year with a 2.8 at 33psi. I don’t dare try smaller. One thing i don’t like about the smaller tires is when i slip on jump face or off camber jump face turning the bars in the air leaves considerably less correction gyro energy/force and requires much more body effort.
I would have to agree if you where only riding Xc and not chunky enduro you def have a faster more nimble bike with smaller tires.

 

[Kimmoi]

Are those from Finland?

Yes they are.

 

[Eckythump]

Unlike a lot of riders, massive straight line grip is not something that I ever really crave, and when leant over properly a 2.35 or 2.5 minion (DHF, DHR or SS) at decently supportive pressures give me plenty cornering grip. One thing I think you may be missing, When using a big heavy draggy tyre all that extra weight and drag is way less of a problem climbing and at speeds of under 15mph on an Ebike than a non Ebike but all that extra drag still creates a far less nimble, less maneouverable bike. th difference in acceleration is pretty huge too, especially if accelerating past the 15mph assist cut off.

my Vitus came with a 35mm rim on the rear (and much more to my taste 30mm front) and I'd much rather the rear was 30mm too. it's not the end of the world and a 2.3 SS still works fine at that width so not really worth spending £50 and an hour of my time to switch out. If it had come with 40mm rims they would probably have been the first thing I'd have switched out along with the tyres (and tubeless)

Do your trail bike wheels have the same axle standards as your Ebike? might be worth switching complete wheels to see what you think.
The Kenevo is a much heavier bike than the Vitus and I'm not sure what sort of weight the wheelset is or how much difference losing tyre/rim weight will make to one but if you have the parts anyway I'd say it's worth trying. I'm like that though.

My bulls came with 35mm wheels front and rear, 27.5 front rear.
The Fantic came with 34x27.5 rear and 28x29 front. It’s considerably faster in and out of sweeping or berm turns, flat and off camber is struggles. If you make a mistake in chunk and thump something of size it leaves a mark. I have destroyed that 28x29er front wheel and i never run less the 30psi usually 31-36psi.
That was with a DHF 2.5 EVO.
Now i have a 30x29 up front with a 2.6. Holds berms with less tire roll, not quite as fast but haven’t chunked a wheel with a few line choices i clinched my teeth thought it was a goner.
I am on my 4th back hoop this year with a 2.8 at 33psi. I don’t dare try smaller. One thing i don’t like about the smaller tires is when i slip on jump face or off camber jump face turning the bars in the air leaves considerably less correction gyro energy/force and requires much more body effort.
I would have to agree if you where only riding Xc and not chunky enduro you def have a faster more nimble bike with smaller tires.

Have you considered inserts, Cushcore or similar?
As well as the direct foam protection for your rims they also ‘ramp’ up the pressure in the tyre under deflection similar to tokens in a fork. You would probably get away with using a little less pressure for some added grip.
Another benefit is resistance to sidewall squirm.

 

[Tim29]

I have great deal of respect for you. Your suspension knowledge is awesome. I made a suggestion that you could use that knowledge to help some of the other members get more out of their suspension set ups, instead of holding it over their heads that they didn’t know anything. You responded with a quiz. I was again impressed with your knowledge.

You don’t like the Butcher tire. I didn’t take it personal at all. It doesn’t work for you, it won’t work for everybody. Maybe it just works for me. It works for me and maybe something will come along that works better. That will be an awesome day. I like when things work better.

If you had understood the point I was trying to make as @Stumpy had, you wouldn’t have felt it necessary to make that comment. Sorry if I pissed you off or offended you.

But since you wish to go there, let’s start with your first couple of statements.

“That’s why i called out the dirt i have issues with it in. Also stated I’ve never used oneon the rear. I have a lot of dampening in my forks, more then double what comes in any fork on the market as i prefer my forks to work more linear then the endustry standards of using tokens to hold your fork up, or keep it from bottoming i also find that wide block knobs on hard surface with loose pee gravel on top cause the tire to roll on the top of the knob.”

I know my grammar isn’t exactly scholarly, but let me help you out a bit, to make this a little easier to understand.

That’s why I described the conditions that give me issues with that tire. I also stated that never used one on my rear wheel. I have a lot of damping (not dampening. Surely the suspension master would know this) in my fork setup, more than (then is a time) double what comes stock on every fork on the market (did you check every fork on the market?) I prefer my forks to work more linear than (then is a time) the industry standard (Really? No one can agree on a bottom bracket standard or even a headset standard, but all of the fork makers agreed on tokens? Even the fork makers that don’t use them?) of using tokens to hold your fork up, or keep it from bottoming. In my experience, wide block knobs on a hard surface with loose pee gravel on top can cause the tire to roll on the top of the knob.

“I also really enjoyed my slaughter on rear until it rained and the ground got muddy.”

Must have been all that double dampening from your fork

You didn’t upset me in even the slightest of ways. Nore did your spelling error corrections.
I’m no suspension expert, i may know more then the average guy. I just been in a fortunate position to have come from factory level race testing to production testing for a lot of years. Which has shown me how good things can be when you take the bean counters out of the equation and ride something that isn’t dollar restricted in setup.
Once you have ridden a bike like that nothing else production feels even close. So i spend time figuring out how to turn my production forks into something close to works fork.
How i made the comment i have more then double the (dampening) Dampning as peoduction fork.
The piston and shim assembly is 126.00 more at manufacture cost which makes its retail cost 400ish more. No bean counter gonna do it not even on the elite side.
Know did i take every fork apart? Hell no, i have every valve code rock shock and Fox offer in there production line product. So i know what the stiffest production valve code is. It’s 3 shims 12x.10, 8x.10, 5x.10. And a 1.5mm float
I have 16 shims with kashima coated inner tubes SKF piston band, high flow Kashima coated piston
Basically that would bring the lyric to $19-$2,100.00 US range retail.
But Rock Shox can’t kashima cost there peoduction forks. Fox has exclusive rights to it.

 

[Tim29]

Have you considered inserts, Cushcore or similar?
As well as the direct foam protection for your rims they also ‘ramp’ up the pressure in the tyre under deflection similar to tokens in a fork. You would probably get away with using a little less pressure for some added grip.
Another benefit is resistance to sidewall squirm.

I have tried the new plus inserts made in Washington or Oregon. Can’t recall the name. But i found they where awkward, on light G loads in corners tires felt normal but soon as you got in little harder the tire would start to deflect or change characters.
Hard for me to explain, maybe the words be, felt like i had two different tire pressures and every corner i felt as if i didn’t know which tire pressure i had in this corner.
But in all fairness i didn’t try them in more then the tires i had on the bike at the time, so maybe they just didn’t fit well with the tire choice i was running. But thanks for the insight. I may bring them with me to mammoth as they maybe able to help solve the kitty litter wallows at top and hold in feature section with the lower pressure needed for that surface of the moon dirt!

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Quick tyre review,

Found the limits of the butchers quite quick on my local trails, issues I have faced with the butchers, they would sit on top of the dirt and often skate around, which has caused 3 or 4 crashes due to washing out the front, i can often feel the sidewalls flex alot into hard turns, very low braking ability which has caused several sketchy moments when it gets steep and trying to get my speed under control.

I have since fitted 2 Magic Mary DH Wirebead 2.6 tyres, and it has completely transformed the bike, I can run lower pressures without the undesired tyre flex I experienced with the butchers, there is a lot more grip under braking helping me get more control of the bike, i feel part of it rather than just been along for the ride. I can push the bike hard into corners and the front digs in and sends me in the right direction, very confidence inspiring and predictable tyres.

my findings are based on what i ride, steep, rutted, loamy, off-piste trails, it might have been different if I was riding more bike park/trail centre places, which I think the butchers are most likely more suited towards.

As you already know.....I am 100% with you on this one @Tucker. I have been getting the same experience from the Magic Mary DH Wirebead 2.6 tyres as you . I am running them on SRAM ROAM 60 carbon rims with a 30mm internal width. The support and protection from the carcass is very confidence inspiring. I have tried many, many tyres in my quest to find, for me personally, ‘the best tyre’ out there and so far this is currently the one for me. Can’t wait to try the new Super Gravity Eddy Current when it becomes available. Just wish it was coming out in an Ultrasoft as I have found the Soft compound gets cut up and sliced too much in the terrain I ride.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

As you already know.....I am 100% with you on this one @Tucker. I have been getting the same experience from the Magic Mary DH Wirebead 2.6 tyres as you . I am running them on SRAM ROAM 60 carbon rims with a 30mm internal width. The support and protection from the carcass is very confidence inspiring. I have tried many, many tyres in my quest to find, for me personally, ‘the best tyre’ out there and so far this is currently the one for me. Can’t wait to try the new Super Gravity Eddy Current when it becomes available. Just wish it was coming out in an Ultrasoft as I have found the Soft compound gets cut up and sliced too much in the terrain I ride.

Hi @Kiwi in Wales, these ones?

Schwalbe Magic Mary Evo 27.5x2.60" DH Addix UltraSoft Wire | MTB Tyres 27.5"+ - non-folding Shop

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Hi @Kiwi in Wales, these ones?

Schwalbe Magic Mary Evo 27.5x2.60" DH Addix UltraSoft Wire | MTB Tyres 27.5"+ - non-folding Shop

Yep, and at that price I am grabbing another two right now! BARGAIN!

 

[Tim29]

Rob, Kiwi, have either of you tried. The Hans Dampf??
I have 27.5x2.8 MM and a29x2.6 Hans Dampf, both snake skin Adex soft.
So far on these ebikes i have tried.
Butcher 2.8 27.5
Knobby nic 2.8. 27.5
DHF. 2.8 27.5
DHF 2.5. 29er
Magic Mary 2.8
XR4 2.3 29er
MTB 2.8 27.5
Hans D 2.6 29er
I wish i could get a 29x 2.6 MM to try

 

[Doomanic]

Yep, and at that price I am grabbing another two right now! BARGAIN!

Hold your horses!
Schwalbe Magic Mary Addix Wire Bead MTB Tyre - DH | Chain Reaction Cycles

 

[Tim29]

Yep, and at that price I am grabbing another two right now! BARGAIN!

What kind of dirt and bikedo you out these on??
I only run snake folding up front.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Yep, and at that price I am grabbing another two right now! BARGAIN!

Nice one! Ordered a pair. £78 shipped ?

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Nice one! Ordered a pair. £78 shipped ?

Thanks for that Rob, Never seen them at 40% discount before brilliant!

 

[Doomanic]

Nice one! Ordered a pair. £78 shipped ?

Hold your horses!

Too late. Oh well.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Too late. Oh well.

Cancelled and ordered from CRC. Cheers.

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Oh bugger, didn’t see Doomanics post.... would have saved a few quid

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Rob, Kiwi, have either of you tried. The Hans Dampf??
I have 27.5x2.8 MM and a29x2.6 Hans Dampf, both snake skin Adex soft.
So far on these ebikes i have tried.
Butcher 2.8 27.5
Knobby nic 2.8. 27.5
DHF. 2.8 27.5
DHF 2.5. 29er
Magic Mary 2.8
XR4 2.3 29er
MTB 2.8 27.5
Hans D 2.6 29er
I wish i could get a 29x 2.6 MM to try

Hi Tim29,
I have tried all the above except for ....
DHF 2.5. 29er
XR4 2.3 29er - have tried XR4 in 27.5 but not on my Levo
MTB 2.8 27.5 - Sorry never heard of this brand?
Hans D 2.6 29er - Have tried this in a 2.35 but not on my Levo

The below screen shot is why I run MM 2.6 Wire bead non folding Apex Addix Ultrasofts.
Oh, and the immense grip and believe it or not, long life and resistance to cuts/slices unlike what I have very recently experienced with the MM 2.8 Apex Addis Soft compound folding versions.

I have these on for most of the year and the only issue I have had with them is they don’t like wet clay based soils as it tends to clog them up. I have an easy fix for this issue. I have two sets of other wheels.
One set with Maxxis Shortys on
27.5X2.50WT 63-584 120 FOLDABLE 2.579 3C MAXX GRIP 50 3C/TR/DD
and the other set has Maxxis Wet Screams on
27.5X2.50 55-584 120 FOLDABLE 2.238 SUPER TACKY 65 ST/DD

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

What kind of dirt and bikedo you out these on??
I only run snake folding up front.

I have them on my second hand 2017 Levo.
I run a 180mm/150mm dual position Lyrik fork and a custom tuned Cane Creek DB coil which has a 55mm stroke giving me over 160mm of rear travel.
I am currently running with 137mm cranks. Yes that is correct, 137mm cranks
The only original item left on the bike is the frame and battery

 

[Tim29]

Kiwi what you run in the rear

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Kiwi what you run in the rear

Currently a MM Apex Addix 2.8 Soft compound but moving back to the 2.6 tomorrow due to the reasons stated above and also the following post.

Kenevo stock tyres - grip questions ??? - EMTB Forums

 

[Gary]

Have you considered inserts, Cushcore or similar?
As well as the direct foam protection for your rims they also ‘ramp’ up the pressure in the tyre under deflection similar to tokens in a fork. You would probably get away with using a little less pressure for some added grip.
Another benefit is resistance to sidewall squirm.

Not on my Enduro or Ebike. No. I simply do not need inserts
I like the handling characteristics the higher pressures I run give. Do not require extra grip and get zero pinch flats or rim damage with the tyres and presures I run. I'm a fairly smooth rider who likes to jump, hop, manual and lift the bike picking good lines rather than plow through square edges everywhere.

I understand the benefits of inserts and actually bought backer rod (basically the same thing ratbites are made from but £2 a wheel instead of £18) to fit as inserts on my DH bike for the Alps last month but had so much other stuff happening I didn't have time to fit and test them before the trip and had zero tyre problems all week running good ol' DH casings and sensible pressures. I may still fit them on my DH bikes when I they next need tyres replacing. But I'm in no real hurry to do either.

 

[Eckythump]

My reply was to Tim29 who indicated he has smashed 4 rims. I appreciate I quoted Tim who had quoted you so it may have looked like I was replying to you however it wasn’t the case.

The cheaper inserts such as Huck Norris and their clones are only any good as rim protectors & snake bite preventers. (I use one in the back of my Enduro bike as a bit of insurance for a carbon rim) they do however let you run lighter casings.
To run at 30 odd psi for puncture prevention and squirm control is quite a compromise in itself. It’s quite an eye opener ditching the super g/DD casings and running lower pressures, both on the ground & in the air.
Don’t get me wrong, squirm is a big problem with high volume tyres when you push hard getting that magic air pressure can be a trial and changes with conditions.
Sometimes there are more than one way to skin a cat......

 

[Tim29]

My problem is some times i just flat run out of talent and my mental view of turning a really chunkybsecrion into a pop the top of the chunky section clearit all comes up short.
Then i buy a rear hoop and tire

 

[Gary]

@Tim29 Back when I pretty much lived for DH riding/racing I pringled, flatspotted, cracked and dented rims so often I treated them as disposible items. With age came patience, experience, wisdom, smoothness and greater skill progression. I'm probably almost as fast as I was in my 30s but nowhere near the destroyer I was in my 20s. I'll no longer hit any jump I think I might come up short or long on until I have fully figured it out and can confidently commit to it.

To run at 30 odd psi for puncture prevention and squirm control is quite a compromise in itself. It’s quite an eye opener ditching the super g/DD casings and running lower pressures, both on the ground & in the air.
Don’t get me wrong, squirm is a big problem with high volume tyres when you push hard getting that magic air pressure can be a trial and changes with conditions.
Sometimes there are more than one way to skin a cat......

Who are you replying to this time? Me or Tim?
If me. I'm used to running a 2.5 Exo or single ply at 30-32psi front, 35-40 rear and not worrying about grip, squirm or punctures. I don't ever run high volume tyres on any bike ever.
I don't even run the softer compound tyres on any bike except my DH bikes
I'll happily ride smoother trails on 2.2 street tyres at 60psi on my 4X hardtail with no drama.
I realise there is a small compromise in ultimate grip but I'm a fairly good rider and can compensate with good line choice and decent riding skill.

I don't find cat all that tasty but yes. There certainly are way more ways than one to keep yourself upright and reach the bottom of every trail quickly and buzzing.

 

[Tim29]

Gary, i have never damaged a wheel in a feature park with massive jumps, i have great timing and visual assessment for jumps.
Jack said to me, he World Cup DH rider you commitment in chunk is inspiring. How you rhythm chunk blows me away, but sometimes i just don’t get the pop i expect off the take off obstacle. Keep in mind these are sections ie usually never done and i will have two options, hammer the brakes or find a rythm. 90% maybe 95% my rythm works.
5-10% i catch the rear wheel. Maybe when I’m in my 60’s i settle for the brakes, but right now i enjoy the challenge of setting up rythm in chunk that most just brake and beat there way through.
Sometimes it’s just a lost grip went wide of my chosen line and then had to deal with obstacles i had planned to go around.
I have taken out 4 wheels in 3 years and 8 rear tires. In 3,700 miles of black single track and there pretty chunky.

 

[Gary]

TBF most of my rim breakages were down big mistakes or random rocks at fort William WC DH track . I've done 1000s of runs there over the 20+ years I rode there. it's actually nowhere near as rough as it once was, (I rode it a couple of years ago on my 120mm slope bike with no damage to anything) The other breakages were mainly at the two other super rocky Scottish tracks.
Dunkeld and Glencoe. As you probably found out when over we don't really have "bike parks" of the sort you guys do.
Dunkeld
Glencoe
and how it should be ridden...
https://www.facebook.com/DirtMountainbike/videos/ben-reid-glencoe/1505873859449887/