Voima Sizing Questions/Views/Opinions

[BigG]

Man, everyone is really different =)
I found myself wanting to slide off the seat to get more comfortable on K4 voima. Will be installing 50mm stem instead of 35.
Being 196cm tall Machine is the perfect size for me, a bit on the planted side though, but I like it that way. Still can throw it around if I want to. Voima feels tiny bit shorter, but it has different stem and handlebars and harder to throw around due to weight and probably need higher bars. Still dialing it in.

 

[Karve]

Good to see that people are going for what they think suits - the short seat tube means its fits a wide range of sizes which is cool. I’m 173, with a k2, and think the bike is nice and agile, corners great, and loves steep weird tight stuff.

If you look at this pic of me hitting a mediumish drop - im not cramped and im not stretched when the bike is dynamically compressed beyond sag – which is where it counts. In fact I might take off a spacer to add a bit of reach for the next ride and see how that works! Would be good to see others post up “dynamic mid travel” pics as I think it would give people a good idea of how the sizing works, when it matters, and not just on paper.

I don’t think the geo is as out there as it might appear on paper. I totally have 100% forgotten about it and it just feels a like more composed but equally dynamic and playful version of my last bike (a rail size M )

 

[Plummet]

Yeah the sizing is very polarizing that is for sure.
I've spent a bit more time on my daughter size small rise which has the same seated TT as the K1 Voima. I get a little bit of a sore back with that cramped TT. I find myself leaning forward on the flatter climbs unweighting my hands and thus loading my back stretching my torso out. I dont really want a TT that short.
That said as soon as the trail becomes steep up. the short TT makes perfect sense. I am no longer riding the horn of the seat like usual and can climb seated up stupid steep. The Voima is obviously configured for steep up and steep down.

I have also spent time on longer reach bikes and definitely don't want to go longer reach that 450. So I am left, if I purchase this bike, with having to compromise. I will not compromise reach and have a bike too long. I will hate it for descending if that is the case. So that leaves compromising the seated cockpit for a shorter TT than is ideal.

I wish I could find a viable alternative to the Voima. There doesn't appear to be anything close out there travel wise.
So right now I'm considering do I just get a cheaper more traditional alloy 170/180 bike like a focus sam or a nukeproof megawatt or yt decoy. Save some cash and ride it like i stole it.

 

[BigG]

Yeah the sizing is very polarizing that is for sure.
I've spent a bit more time on my daughter size small rise which has the same seated TT as the K1 Voima. I get a little bit of a sore back with that cramped TT. I find myself leaning forward on the flatter climbs unweighting my hands and thus loading my back stretching my torso out. I dont really want a TT that short.
That said as soon as the trail becomes steep up. the short TT makes perfect sense. I am no longer riding the horn of the seat like usual and can climb seated up stupid steep. The Voima is obviously configured for steep up and steep down.

I have also spent time on longer reach bikes and definitely don't want to go longer reach that 450. So I am left, if I purchase this bike, with having to compromise. I will not compromise reach and have a bike too long. I will hate it for descending if that is the case. So that leaves compromising the seated cockpit for a shorter TT than is ideal.

I wish I could find a viable alternative to the Voima. There doesn't appear to be anything close out there travel wise.
So right now I'm considering do I just get a cheaper more traditional alloy 170/180 bike like a focus sam or a nukeproof megawatt or yt decoy. Save some cash and ride it like i stole it.

Maybe try a riser bar? something like 35+.
It makes flat pedaling pleasant because you don’t have to bend as much, you don’t loose control on uphills or downhills because bike is stable af whatever direction you take due to wheelbase+HA+SA.

 

[BigG]

Ah nvm, seems you are comparing other bike with similar reach/tt to voima. That’s a common mistake, voima IS different even if reach/TT is the same.
Voima is FREAKING 10 cm longer in wb, longer stays, slacker HA, steeper SA, and 50mm more travel.

 

[Plummet]

Maybe try a riser bar? something like 35+.
It makes flat pedaling pleasant because you don’t have to bend as much, you don’t loose control on uphills or downhills because bike is stable af whatever direction you take due to wheelbase+HA+SA.

I'll be honest I don't understand the idea of a higher riser bar for a shorter TT set up. That actually sits you more upright. I don't want more upright seated position. I want to be more stretched/lower.

 

[BigG]

I'll be honest I don't understand the idea of a higher riser bar for a shorter TT set up. That actually sits you more upright. I don't want more upright seated position. I want to be more stretched/lower.

You said that you get sore back because you get stretched, I but I probably read that in context of previous sentence. Misunderstood.
But my words about not trying to compare Voima with different bike with single similar measurement still stand.

 

[Plummet]

You said that you get sore back because you get stretched, I but I probably read that in context of previous sentence. Misunderstood.
But my words about not trying to compare Voima with different bike with single similar measurement still stand.

Without a K1 Voima to demo all I can do is go on the measurements and ride bikes with similar reach and TT measurements to assess cockpit positioning. The Voima, or any other bike for that matter, is not so magical that it you cant compare cockpit position.

Note that im not comparing suspension or overall performance of other bikes. Only assessing my comfortableness with particular reach and TT measurement.

Ps Recall I have ridden a K4 Voima. But can't compare that cockpit as it was Way to big. I did get to assess the performance of the suspension and general quality of the bike.

 

[Onetime]

I'll be honest I don't understand the idea of a higher riser bar for a shorter TT set up. That actually sits you more upright. I don't want more upright seated position. I want to be more stretched/lower.

To me the Voima is more suited to a more upright riding position more similar to an MX bike. For me it’s much more comfortable like this. For me, stretched out and low causes back and wrist pain. On the Voima, there is no need to be stretched out and low because the bike just works so well when you are more centered and upright. There is no need to weight the front end for traction on the Voima, because it already has the traction without having to lean forward weather your climbing, descending or railing turns. For me, it just plain works. Just my 2c.

 

[BigG]

^ yep, thanks for putting it nicely together.
There’s a proverb in my native language that translates roughly to «a word dropped from a song makes it all wrong»
Even if TT/reach match, doesn’t mean it’ll work.

 

[Plummet]

To me the Voima is more suited to a more upright riding position more similar to an MX bike. For me it’s much more comfortable like this. For me, stretched out and low causes back and wrist pain. On the Voima, there is no need to be stretched out and low because the bike just works so well when you are more centered and upright. There is no need to weight the front end for traction on the Voima, because it already has the traction without having to lean forward weather your climbing, descending or railing turns. For me, it just plain works. Just my 2c.

I think you are missing my point. K1 size dimensions are all perfect for me except TT. TT is uncomfortably short. K2 TT is perfect for my size, that is also not too stretched for seated pedaling. Its just right. But the rest of the dimensions of K2 are too long for my liking. Wheel base too long, reach too long, front center too long....

That's why I haven't hit go yet. I dont want K2 sizing at all other than TT dimension so that size is out. Its wrong for my riding style. K1, I might suffer extended sore back for having a TT too short.

 

[Lightme]

I think you are missing my point. K1 size dimensions are all perfect for me except TT. TT is uncomfortably short. K2 TT is perfect for my size, that is also not too stretched for seated pedaling. Its just right. But the rest of the dimensions of K2 are too long for my liking. Wheel base too long, reach too long, front center too long....

That's why I haven't hit go yet. I dont want K2 sizing at all other than TT dimension so that size is out. Its wrong for my riding style. K1, I might suffer extended sore back for having a TT too short.

I have a cost effective solution: don’t buy one.
Seriously, Pole are going for a niche market and some people are, almost by design, not going to get along with the design. That’s fine. There’s plenty of other bikes out there.

 

[cartwheels]

I think you are missing my point. K1 size dimensions are all perfect for me except TT. TT is uncomfortably short. K2 TT is perfect for my size, that is also not too stretched for seated pedaling. Its just right. But the rest of the dimensions of K2 are too long for my liking. Wheel base too long, reach too long, front center too long....

That's why I haven't hit go yet. I dont want K2 sizing at all other than TT dimension so that size is out. Its wrong for my riding style. K1, I might suffer extended sore back for having a TT too short.

It’s an interesting conundrum for sure and one I can very much much relate to.
I recently experimented with a much longer (+85mm wheelbase) hard tail. Coming from a very slack seat tube bike.
I was trying to emulate the seated position of the old bike on the newer steeper seat tube bike but was not more comfortable until I slid the seat forward and raised the bars.
This did indeed make the seated cockpit much shorter and took some getting used to but overall improved my hand to feet balance whilst seated.
As it was on a non e-bike hard tail I was worried that it would not work so well for longer xc trail type rides but after a handful of rides I was becoming used to the position and actually bettering my times all round.
As with everything it’s a balancing act and I too question if the 80 deg seat tube is too extreme having only just adapted from 71 to 75. (Meat powered hard tail mind , so not directly comparable!)
I’m 177cm but have very long arms at 191cm wingspan (gibbon like!)
This does seem to make getting the balance trickier.
I’ve always been inclined towards a smaller bike for stand over and do enjoy being able to flick the bike around.
I think I’d be caught between k1 and K2 although I believe the k2 might be the best compromise, if I were going to buy ideally I’d be looking for a test ride to see what gelled.

 

[Paul Mac]

I think you are missing my point. K1 size dimensions are all perfect for me except TT. TT is uncomfortably short. K2 TT is perfect for my size, that is also not too stretched for seated pedaling. Its just right. But the rest of the dimensions of K2 are too long for my liking. Wheel base too long, reach too long, front center too long....

That's why I haven't hit go yet. I dont want K2 sizing at all other than TT dimension so that size is out. Its wrong for my riding style. K1, I might suffer extended sore back for having a TT too short.

When I took out the K1 with a 50mm stem and 40 risers against the K2 with 35mm stem and 30mm risers, the seated riding position was very similar and I wasn't cramped on either of them, rode them both for over 15 miles each.
It was personality of the bikes that was very different not the seated position.

 

[Robstyle]

@Plummet what would you put on a Crestline to turn it into 26k?

Re voima, just get a K1. It'll be fine.
I've got a medium norco range with 450 reach, I'm 178cm, there's 37mm difference in top tubes between these bikes I hate pedalling it (because I'm unfit lol) but it feels fine, just slam the seat back on the voima and call it a day. It's what I'd decided to do if I got one.

 

[Paul Mac]

After endlessly divering and stressing, I went for the K1 in the end.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

As @Karve mentioned there’s a lot of scope on the bikes to accommodate sizing.

Regarding short to tube, slamming the seat rear wards will probably give +30mm more effective length and slacken seat tube angle to roughly 79 degrees. There’s a lot of flexibility to fit.

 

[Paris Doo]

As @Karve mentioned there’s a lot of scope on the bikes to accommodate sizing.

Regarding short to tube, slamming the seat rear wards will probably give +30mm more effective length and slacken seat tube angle to roughly 79 degrees. There’s a lot of flexibility to fit.

Slamming the seat rearwards will definitely slacken the seat tube angle more than 1 degree and it is an evidence (if not a proof) that really steep seat tube angles are not the holy grail of modern bike geometry especially if you combine them with the rather short emtb cranks.

To be honest Rob I can't understand how you can ride a K2 with all those compromises (saddle rearwards, reach adjuster etc) and honestly it would have made much more sense to mullet the K3 rather than switching to a K2 as you have done with the Focus Sam2.

If you have time do some timed laps with the K2 vs the K3 both in full 29er & mullet version.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

To be honest Rob I can't understand how you can ride a K2 with all those compromises (saddle rearwards, reach adjuster etc) and honestly it would have made much more sense to mullet the K3 rather than switching to a K2 as you have done with the Focus Sam2

What compromises?! Did you read my post above that I explained why for me this works so well?

I have both K3 and K2 and far prefer the K2.

Also, I prefer 29, why would I want to mullet?

 

[Paris Doo]

What compromises?!

I have both K3 and K2 and far prefer the K2.

Also, I prefer 29, why would I want to mullet?

If you get a bike with a short top tube due to steep seat tube angle and then you slam the seat backwards to get 30mm & use a reach adjuster to get another 5mm then you have most probably selected either the wrong size or the wrong bike to start with.

For me the K3 is a no brainer and even though I don't like Leo that much I am a big fan of Pole bikes since the first Evolink 1.4 and the same thing applies about Geometron / Nikolai bikes.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

If you get a bike with a short top tube due to steep seat tube angle and then you slam the seat backwards to get 30mm & use a reach adjuster to get another 5mm then you have most probably selected either the wrong size or the wrong bike to start with.

I havent slammed the seat tube. I was suggesting it as an option to someone.

Have you ridden the bike? I'm assuming not, and that you are basing it all on geometry figures, which help, but there's nothing like actually riding it and testing it. And even better if you can test both sizes (which I am fortunate to be able to do!).

I've have both K2 and K3 bikes, and have hundreds of KM's on the K3 and 3 rides on the K2, and like I mentioned a few times already, prefer the K2. If I didnt, I would have chosen the K3. I know that may baffle you, but it works for me! If you'd choose a K3, thats absolutely fine!

I also put preference of the actual riding position (weighted through pedals, riding down the trails) over seated position. Short TT doesn't bother me in the slightest. We dont really ride bikes sat down, out of the saddle is where the best bits happen!

As an aside, Leigh Johnson (EWS rider) is also similar height to me, and prefers the K2, and Seb from Pinkbike, again, 190cm, prefers the K2.

 

[Paris Doo]

I havent slammed the seat tube. I was suggesting it as an option to someone.

Have you ridden the bike? I'm assuming not, and that you are basing it all on geometry figures, which help, but there's nothing like actually riding it and testing it. And even better if you can test both sizes (which I am fortunate to be able to do!).

I've ridden both, and like I mentioned a few times already, prefer the K2. If I didnt, I would have chosen the K3. I know that may baffle you, but it works for me! If you'd choose a K3, thats absolutely fine!

As an aside, Leigh Johnson (EWS rider) is also similar height to me, and prefers the K2, and Seb from Pinkbike, again, 190cm, prefers the K2.

And as the myth says Jack Moir rides a small Strive right (not)?

Since you are not a EWS rider your argument is a bit irrelevant and Pole clearly suggests a K3 for your height for style & K4 for speed. Don't get me wrong Voima is a great bike (at 1.83 I have tried both K2 & K3 and I wish I could have tried a K4) but wanting a K3 Voima in a K2 body is obviously OK but still a compromise.

Anyway I really like your videos so keep them coming even if we don't agree on this.

 

[Paul Mac]

And as the myth says Jack Moir rides a small Strive right (not)?

Since you are not a EWS rider your argument is a bit irrelevant and Pole clearly suggests a K3 for your height for style & K4 for speed. Don't get me wrong Voima is a great bike (at 1.83 I have tried both K2 & K3 and I wish I could have tried a K4) but wanting a K3 Voima in a K2 body is obviously OK but still a compromise.

Anyway I really like your videos so keep them coming even if we don't agree on this.

Why would you want to try a K4, when the size chart clearly puts you outside the range?
Surely this is going against your argument the other way?

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

Since you are not a EWS rider

are you an EWS rider ?

we welcome all on this forum even if they know not what they speak of.

he must be n EWS rider otherwise according to his own logic, his argument is irrelevant..

 

[Paris Doo]

Why would you want to try a K4, when the size chart clearly puts you outside the range?
Surely this is going against your argument the other way?

I want to try it due to the really steep seat tube angle & shorter top tube but not necessarily buy it.

And it doesn't really go against my argument since I am in favor of longer / slacker bikes and when most people were riding short reach 27.5 bikes I was already riding more progressive bikes (Mondraker, Pole, Geometron etc).

As for Voima's geometry I don't find it to be extreme or polarizing (except for the seat tube angle) and on top of the bikes mentioned above you can find similar geometry in bikes like the Canyon Strive, the Transition Spire, the Privateer 161 etc.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Pole clearly suggests a K3 for your height for style & K4 for speed.

What if I told you that Pole are introducing a K0 size, to balance out the sizing?

@Paul Mac - your K1 is no longer a small, K0 will be the new small

 

[Paul Mac]

What if I told you that Pole are introducing a K0 size, to balance out the sizing?

 

[Paris Doo]

What if I told you that Pole are introducing a K0 size, to balance out the sizing?

@Paul Mac - your K1 is no longer a small, K0 will be the new small

That would be great if you are smaller than 1.60 but if it is a 29er and not a 27.5 it would look strange for sure.

 

[Paul Mac]

Your K1 is no longer a small, K0 will be the new small

Thank god for that, I was getting ready for the small Pole jokes when I first ventured out on it

 

[jbrown15]

After endlessly divering and stressing, I went for the K1 in the end.

How tall are you Paul?