Fuel EXe Trek Fuel EXe - Trying to understand range and altitude possibilities

[stygz1]

I am looking at the Trek EXe and what the reviewers are getting getting for range. I am hearing a solid 2 hrs and 4500M of elevation using full power. I would be mostly under mid power likely

now comparing this to my last bigger ride I am trying to compare this to my numbers from Strava.

500M elevation gain
25km distance
About 2 hrs ride time

I Took these numbers from my Strava that was recorded on my I watch 7. I converted to metric. Are these numbers relative to the estimated range of what I amhearing on the Fuel EXe? I realize weight of the rider makes a difference. I am not really Strava savvy…..

I am about 80kg.

it seems I would have lots of battery left on a ride such as this.. but help me understand

 

[Zimmerframe]

I am looking at the Trek EXe and what the reviewers are getting getting for range. I am hearing a solid 2 hrs and 4500M of elevation using full power. I would be mostly under mid power likely

now comparing this to my last bigger ride I am trying to compare this to my numbers from Strava.

500M elevation gain
25km distance
About 2 hrs ride time

I Took these numbers from my Strava that was recorded on my I watch 7. I converted to metric. Are these numbers relative to the estimated range of what I amhearing on the Fuel EXe? I realize weight of the rider makes a difference. I am not really Strava savvy…..

I am about 80kg.

it seems I would have lots of battery left on a ride such as this.. but help me understand

And I'm not sure anyone's going to be doing :

A: 4500m in 2 hours - that's 2250 meters an hour vertical.

B: 4500m from a tiny little battery. The most I've got from a 625wh Bosch is 3835m (strava) in Eco, but slogging my arse to ride over the assist where possible to not use battery. That said there are SL owners on here who say they do 1500m vertical and still have 80% battery because they have assistance set so low, but you're not going to 2250 meters an hour vertical without more assistance on a 19kg bike.

 

[flash]

2250M an hour is everesting in four hours. And on trails, not roads. With knobbly tyres. Good luck with that on any bike unless you’re some sort of elite fitness weapon. At full power I call BS that it will last 4500M.

To the OP. I’m heavier than you. On my eZesty with a 250wH battery I get about 500M vertical in 1:45 and about 25km range at mid power. So you should be fine with a Rise. But you won’t get 2250M of vertical in a session at full or mid power.

Gordon

 

[stygz1]

Sorry, i defiantly got my elevation wrong. 4500 feet = 1371M

 

[Streddaz]

I am looking at the Trek EXe and what the reviewers are getting getting for range. I am hearing a solid 2 hrs and 4500M of elevation using full power. I would be mostly under mid power likely

now comparing this to my last bigger ride I am trying to compare this to my numbers from Strava.

500M elevation gain
25km distance
About 2 hrs ride time

I Took these numbers from my Strava that was recorded on my I watch 7. I converted to metric. Are these numbers relative to the estimated range of what I amhearing on the Fuel EXe? I realize weight of the rider makes a difference. I am not really Strava savvy…..

I am about 80kg.

it seems I would have lots of battery left on a ride such as this.. but help me understand

Range and elevation will vary significantly depending on rider fitness and weight, the rolling resistance of the tyres, the type of road/track/trail (single track will suck up more energy than a gravel fire road) and even the temperature of the day.
The most accurate way I have seen is when they have a power meter fitted and ride each different bike up the same road keeping the same power input as they go with at least the same tyres and rider.

I haven't had the chance to do a full ride from full charge to flat yet on my Levo SL but the closest I've had was a gravel race I did and that was 43km, 1046m and 2hrs ride time and I had about 9% left. As it was a race I spent a fair bit of the climbs in Boost. The whole race was on either gravel roads or sealed roads but majority gravel.
Another big ride I did was 52km, 731m of elevation and 2 1/2hrs ride time and this ride was mainly in Trail and a whole lot of single track and I had about 17% left.
I think I could get a 60km ride in with close to 1000m of elevation if I rode in trail for most of the ride.

 

[Zimmerframe]

garmin says I’m 24 years old in fitness age which is About half my earth years.

Do you have "flattery" mode enabled ? Or do you make your girlfriends wear it most of the time ?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Fuel EXe range This was 100% turbo with long some steepish climbs. I used all the battery. Riding weight 87KG. Michelin Wild Enduro Tyres.

 

[Richridesmtb]

Fuel EXe range This was 100% turbo with long some steepish climbs. I used all the battery. Riding weight 87KG. Michelin Wild Enduro Tyres.

View attachment 92725

It was worth eating up that battery for the trophy.

 

[Doomanic]

This was an Eco-only ride on my KSL last weekend. Ran out of time rather than legs so I see 1300m as easily achieved.

 

[B1rdie]

I would believe 450 meters high gain with that small batterie on a truly fun ride.

 

[Doomanic]

@B1rdie Did you even look at my post? That was a really fun ride with 998m ascent and corresponding descent. Turboing up fireroads isn’t fun; it’s a means to an end.

 

[B1rdie]

@B1rdie Did you even look at my post? That was a really fun ride with 998m ascent and corresponding descent. Turboing up fireroads isn’t fun; it’s a means to an end.

Sorry,
It was to the OP 4.500 meters that I meant to comment.

 

[Streddaz]

Fuel EXe range This was 100% turbo with long some steepish climbs. I used all the battery. Riding weight 87KG. Michelin Wild Enduro Tyres.

View attachment 92725

Not as much as I would have thought

You planning a Super Light shootout @Rob Rides EMTB ?

 

[MLX John]

Levo SL w Butcher Grid Trail/Vittoria Agarro- both 2.6"

total bike weight 19kg w/range extender.
My weight 87kg

Using mostly trail, with some turbo for steepish tech sections. Using range extender, so 480wh of battery.

When using the range extender, the battery capacity starts at 150% in the mission control app. Had 24% of 150 left at the end of the ride.

 

[Loamranger]

Fuel EXe range This was 100% turbo with long some steepish climbs. I used all the battery. Riding weight 87KG. Michelin Wild Enduro Tyres.

View attachment 92725

Hi Rob

Just trying to get an idea of power compared to Levo SL. Is the middle setting on the EXE similar to turbo on SL?

Another question: what is the minimum steerer tube length on a fork needed for the XL size EXE? Please could you measure for me. Many thanks.

 

[Endoguru]

On my kenevo sl the best I’ve done is 24 miles with 2300 ft elevation gain, riding in eco and trail only, with 9% batterey left. This was riding moderate climbs with lots of flow trail/jump lines and rock garden descents. I love the lighter ebikes but the range is definitely a bit of a negative.

 

[CJaMTB]

Just reading this and thought I'd share my Levo SL's best to date. Last year, I rode the Ard Rock Enduro - 40.61kms and 1,518m of climb (or 25 miles with 4,980ft) - in mostly Eco and Trail, with some Turbo here and there. I had the range extender fitted and got back with just under 50% battery remaining (from 150%. Don't ask, it's just the way Spesh do it!), meaning I could have ridden the event without the RE, if I had been a bit more frugal. I was 48y/o at the time, weigh ~75kgs, plus riding kit, and have been riding for years. Whilst I am fit, I'm also disabled and have multiple lower limb limitations.

I'd be very keen to get a test ride on one of these new Trek bikes, though doubt that'll happen any time soon (due to availability), especially as the one thing I hate about my SL is the noise. Will be interesting to see how they stack up in a direct comparison...

 

[stygz1]

Just reading this and thought I'd share my Levo SL's best to date. Last year, I rode the Ard Rock Enduro - 40.61kms and 1,518m of climb (or 25 miles with 4,980ft) - in mostly Eco and Trail, with some Turbo here and there. I had the range extender fitted and got back with just under 50% battery remaining (from 150%. Don't ask, it's just the way Spesh do it!), meaning I could have ridden the event without the RE, if I had been a bit more frugal. I was 48y/o at the time, weigh ~75kgs, plus riding kit, and have been riding for years. Whilst I am fit, I'm also disabled and have multiple lower limb limitations.

I'd be very keen to get a test ride on one of these new Trek bikes, though doubt that'll happen any time soon (due to availability), especially as the one thing I hate about my SL is the noise. Will be interesting to see how they stack up in a direct comparison...

Good Info. I believe much of my riding will be less than 2,000ft of climbing. I was talking to my Trek dealer yesterday. Here un the USA, we are about 120 days out on a yellow 9.8 in Medium. The other colors do not have a date listed. My dealer has 2 stock bikes coming end of September. I am going to look at it then and do a parking lot ride then.

 

[mak]

I was trying to hang out for the Trek but my patience couldn't wait for 6 months. I've been full fat for 2.5 years but have been very curios about these so called light weight emtb bikes.

I went for the orbea rise m10 last week. What a revelation for me and my surroundings, I was also concerned about battery and power on a mid/ lightweight bike.

I have no regrets on the orbea, this bike seems to be vanishing into the distance with regards to the new lightweight mid power bikes, I guess its old news now.

Todays small ride , 579 m of climbing 2hrs.23 mins 21.2 miles and 58% battery left . I had some steep turbo climbs in there, I'm still getting to grips with the shimano app.

The Trek looks fantastic but coming from a full fat bosch gen 4 motor for over two years i was worried the trek 50 nm might not be enough ( it probably would) .

P.s There not actually that light weight when weighed

 

[Loamranger]

Mak, what was the weight of your M10? Size?

Thanks

 

[mak]

Mak, what was the weight of your M10? Size?

Thanks

Size medium with pedals/ Garmin / front mudguard / tubeless and water bottle mount on some accurate fishing scale's 19.5kg .
It sounds a bit heavy but the reality is on a different level, lifting over gates and styles is not a night mare and it actually rides nice in off. This is coming from a 25kg bike .

 

[CJaMTB]

Size medium with pedals/ Garmin and water bottle mount on some accurate fishing scale's 19.5kg .
It sounds a bit heavy but the reality is on a different level, lifting over gates and styles is not a night mare and it actually rides nice in off. This is coming from a 25kg bike .

My SL is the same: 20kgs, plus or minus, depending on spec it's riding in. So much easier to get over stiles/gates, or just hefting in/on/off the car. Then the ride; it is way, way easier to throw about, feels more nimble and willing to hop, much easier to manoeuvrer in the air too. I love my Vitus E-Sommet for fast, rough tracks, but for everything else the SL is the hands-down winner (except for stealthy approaches to anything, it's the noisiest motor I've ridden in more than 5yrs and probably a dozen or more bikes!). I should say, the Vitus rides much lighter than it's 27kgs+ would suggest, and is a fun ride, but dropping that 7kgs makes a HUGE difference. The Vitus does cost less than half what the SL cost though, and is £2k cheaper than the cheapest Fuel EXe! I am still looking at the Fuel EXe though, which should tell you all you need to know there.

 

[Streddaz]

My SL is the same: 20kgs, plus or minus, depending on spec it's riding in. So much easier to get over stiles/gates, or just hefting in/on/off the car. Then the ride; it is way, way easier to throw about, feels more nimble and willing to hop, much easier to manoeuvrer in the air too. I love my Vitus E-Sommet for fast, rough tracks, but for everything else the SL is the hands-down winner (except for stealthy approaches to anything, it's the noisiest motor I've ridden in more than 5yrs and probably a dozen or more bikes!). I should say, the Vitus rides much lighter than it's 27kgs+ would suggest, and is a fun ride, but dropping that 7kgs makes a HUGE difference. The Vitus does cost less than half what the SL cost though, and is £2k cheaper than the cheapest Fuel EXe! I am still looking at the Fuel EXe though, which should tell you all you need to know there.

I'm in the same boat. My SL is 19.5 and that's with an Ohlins coil fork, piggy back Super Deluxe shock. I may be slower on the climbs than a full fat Ebike but no more than a fit vs not so fit rider on a normal bike would be but the plus side on descents that require a bit of pedaling, I can drop a full fat rider due to the reduction in drag over the 25kph speed cut, and just pedal past the the speed limit. On other full fat Ebikes I've ridden it feels like the brakes are dragging once you hit that speed cut. Also like you said, moving the bike around on the trail and in the air is much easier.

 

[irie]

... I can drop a full fat rider due to the reduction in drag over the 25kph speed cut, and just pedal past the the speed limit. On other full fat Ebikes I've ridden it feels like the brakes are dragging once you hit that speed cut ...

When descending on my FF Rail to get rid of motor drag I just turn assistance 'Off'. Simples.

 

[Streddaz]

When descending on my FF Rail to get rid of motor drag I just turn assistance 'Off'. Simples.

Even in off you will still get drag from the motor and you still have that extra 4 to 6 kg of weight to push, so unless the descent is steep enough not to have to pedal at all, a lighter bike will be quicker. On the gravity enduro stages that you need to pedal that I have raced in (and most descents you have to pedal somewhere) I can be quicker than the full powered Ebikes. Of course this is not the case if the bike has some sort of mod to remove the speed cut.

 

[irie]

Even in off you will still get drag from the motor ...

When a Bosch Gen4 motor (which is what Rails have) is still "On" but assistance is "Off" exactly how much motor drag is there and what does that drag come from?

 

[CJaMTB]

When a Bosch Gen4 motor (which is what Rails have) is still "On" but assistance is "Off" exactly how much motor drag is there and what does that drag come from?

You'll have to ask Bosch for a detailed figure on the drag (or read one of the many threads on this forum, that detail it), but even when off, you will be turning over the internals of the motor. Some motors are specifically designed to disengage the spindle from the drive, but unless your motor is one of these, there will be internal drag from the cogs. The Gen 3 Bosch was terrible for it, the Gen 4 is better but is not drag-free. I should point out that, whilst I have experience of working on eMTBs, in a professional capacity, as I said above, you'd need to get specifics for the Bosch Gen4 from someone better placed than I. I do know that there are motors, such as the Spesh SL, which have exceptionally low drag (purportedly 2wh), or those like the Fazua, that have none. There could also be the perception of drag, caused by the additional 5 or more kilos that you'll be hauling, compared to some of the lighter weight bikes. There are a great many elements involved in the different feels between the bikes.

 

[irie]

You'll have to ask Bosch for a detailed figure on the drag (or read one of the many threads on this forum, that detail it), but even when off, you will be turning over the internals of the motor. Some motors are specifically designed to disengage the spindle from the drive, but unless your motor is one of these, there will be internal drag from the cogs. The Gen 3 Bosch was terrible for it, the Gen 4 is better but is not drag-free. I should point out that, whilst I have experience of working on eMTBs, in a professional capacity, as I said above, you'd need to get specifics for the Bosch Gen4 from someone better placed than I. I do know that there are motors, such as the Spesh SL, which have exceptionally low drag (purportedly 2wh), or those like the Fazua, that have none. There could also be the perception of drag, caused by the additional 5 or more kilos that you'll be hauling, compared to some of the lighter weight bikes. There are a great many elements involved in the different feels between the bikes.

I searched and found only the below which says either no drag or very low drag. Obviously my search foo is failing.

SEARCH RESULTS FOR QUERY: BOSCH GEN4 MOTOR DRAG

• Search

SEARCH THE FORUMSEARCH WORDPRESS

1. [IMG alt="irie"]https://www.emtbforums.com/community/data/avatars/s/24/24232.jpg?1654158120[/IMG]
   Fuel EXe Trek Fuel EXe - Trying to understand range and altitude possibilities
   When a Bosch Gen4 motor (which is what Rails have) is still "On" but assistance is "Off" exactly how much motor drag is there and what does that drag come from?
   • irie
   • Post #30
   • Today at 6:17 AM
   • Forum: Trek
2. [IMG alt="CJaMTB"]https://www.emtbforums.com/community/data/avatars/s/9/9477.jpg?1589026697[/IMG]
   Fuel EXe Trek Fuel EXe - Trying to understand range and altitude possibilities
   You'll have to ask Bosch for a detailed figure on the drag (or read one of the many threads on this forum, that detail it), but even when off, you will be turning over the internals of the motor. Some motors are specifically designed to disengage the spindle from the drive, but unless your motor...
   • CJaMTB
   • Post #31
   • Today at 6:54 PM
   • Forum: Trek
3. F
   Bosch Gen 4 and over 25Kph problems ( motor doesn't seem to disengage )
   Having started from a Gen2, I can tell you what real drag is! :-D Jokes aside the Gen3 has *way* less drag than the Gen2 because of changes they made internally. The Gen4 has even less pedaling resistance. If you're on a Gen4 drive unit and you're still noticing serious pedal resistance with...
   • friendlywrench
   • Post #16
   • Mar 12, 2022
   • Forum: Bosch
4. [IMG alt="Mikerb"]https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4714fc0a4d19ead652bbab6ea1f8e93e?s=48[/IMG]
   Drag!!
   [email protected] that kind of drag. I mean drag caused by tyres and rear suspension. Today I was checking over my wife's bike which is a Cube Access ( hardtail). I took it out on the road at the side of my house as part of the checkover and did a couple of miles just riding up and down what...
   • Mikerb
   • Thread
   • Dec 14, 2021
   • Replies: 4
   • Forum: General EMTB Forum
5. [IMG alt="Mteam"]https://www.emtbforums.com/community/data/avatars/s/11/11387.jpg?1604830992[/IMG]
   Help me please. Cannondale and Bosch suck bigtime
   Do you have the gen4 Bosch cx motor (usually identified by the large chainring) or the gen 2 (tiny chainring)? If gen 4 then The wheel size is just a setting in the software that any bike shop with the bosch software can adjust, it's a slider that the operator drags to set the desired wheel...
   • Mteam
   • Post #11
   • Mar 6, 2022
   • Forum: General EMTB Forum
6. B
   Hit the limiter...strange drag?
   My 2018 Trek with the gen2 Bosch motor had a little drag over 25kph but it was minimal. The 2021 Trek I have has virtually no drag, in fact reduced drag is one of the main features of the gen4 motor. I guess if Bosch are saying they've reduced the drag there must have been some in the first...
   • Bobj183
   • Post #38
   • Feb 21, 2021
   • Forum: Whyte
7. [IMG alt="Zimmerframe"]https://www.emtbforums.com/community/data/avatars/s/4/4350.jpg?1641202591[/IMG]
   New Bosch 2022 Motor System (Bosch Smart System) Announced
   Totally. The Gen4 is zero draggy (Still a pig with 25kg's of bike and tractor tyres, but you can still really push on if you accelerate past the limit, it drops off smoothly and kind of pushes you over it). But then the Brose is pretty much Zero draggy (but has a much harsher cut off). Maybe...
   • Zimmerframe
   • Post #57
   • Aug 31, 2021
   • Forum: General EMTB Forum
8. [IMG alt="Zimmerframe"]https://www.emtbforums.com/community/data/avatars/s/4/4350.jpg?1641202591[/IMG]
   Power reduces nearing limiter.
   G-Day ! The Gen4 tapers off the power as you get towards the limiter. On GPS, this normally coincides with a speed of 25kph. On the Purion, it shows 27.x. From the Purions perspective (as in what you see), it just tapers off the power so you don't get that horrible STOP you get with some...
   • Zimmerframe
   • Post #2
   • Apr 19, 2022
   • Forum: Bosch
9. [IMG alt="Vinnykiwi"]https://www.emtbforums.com/community/data/avatars/s/12/12986.jpg?1606807371[/IMG]
   bosch gen 4 rattle, reply from bosch
   I think the rattle is due to the Internal reduction in drag beyond the motor assist range? The ol Bosch Gen2, no rattle, the ol Shimano E8000, no rattle. Both had „excessive“ drag beyond the assist range. The new Gen4 and EP8, no drag, heaps of rattle... get my drift ?‍. I’d prefer a little...
   • Vinnykiwi
   • Post #50
   • Nov 30, 2020
   • Forum: General EMTB Forum
10. W
    Power reduces nearing limiter.
    I do understand the drag big tyre weight transition from assistance to no assistance and the extra effort required. Under good conditions I have exceeded (peddled) well over 35 kph so I am well aware of the effort required once assistance stops. (it is hard to maintain for any length of time)...
    • Wodger63
    • Post #4
    • Apr 19, 2022
    • Forum: Bosch
11. [IMG alt="Mteam"]https://www.emtbforums.com/community/data/avatars/s/11/11387.jpg?1604830992[/IMG]
    Whyte e160S or Specialized turbo Levo
    There's very little drag from the motor when pedalling with it switched off on the bosch gen4, I'd go as far to say theres no additional drag at all. It can be hard to separate the extra drag of Having to pedal a 22-26kg bike compared to a 13kg bike from extra mechanical drag from the motor...
    • Mteam
    • Post #3
    • Oct 25, 2020
    • Forum: Whyte
12. [IMG alt="More-read-than-ride"]https://www.emtbforums.com/community/data/avatars/s/2/2358.jpg?1599468377[/IMG]
    Cube 160 Action Team first impressions. 9/10
    This review was for the 2018 model with the gen3 motor. I now have the 2020 model and I do not feel any noticable drag.
    • More-read-than-ride
    • Post #17
    • Sep 29, 2020
    • Forum: Cube
13. [IMG alt="Gyre"]https://www.emtbforums.com/community/data/avatars/s/15/15162.jpg?1621038842[/IMG]
    Bosch motor cx inhibiting speeds above 20mph
    I don't have a very good frame of reference since I just know my Wild at the limiter and can't compare it to anything else. That said, I'm really surprised to hear that you're experiencing any assistance at all over 25kph. My Wild cuts out a little prematurely. I'd put it at just over 19mph...
    • Gyre
    • Post #13
    • Jul 28, 2021
    • Forum: General EMTB Forum
14. T
    Bosch CX gen 4 chainring nut
    I'm having the same issue on the same ebike right now. I had to replace the rear derailleur cable so I removed the chainring . I re-installed it with a proper torque wrench (30 Nm as written on the chainring nut) but it loosen soon after the first 10-15 km of riding. The thread lock is a valid...
    • Trantor
    • Post #111
    • Apr 13, 2022
    • Forum: Bosch
15. [IMG alt="aarfeldt"]https://www.emtbforums.com/community/data/avatars/s/4/4078.jpg?1589973915[/IMG]
    Bosch Gen4 gets more power, is faster than Turbo Levo in drag race
    Would be cool to compare the 2 Focus Jam2 bikes, which comes with both Shimano E8000 and Bosch Gen4 motors. Then the bike differences/gearing/weight is eliminated in the "drag race" But anyway....it's very cool that they can (and will) update the power output ! They must have started low...
    • aarfeldt
    • Post #4
    • Jun 25, 2020
    • Forum: General EMTB Forum
16. [IMG alt="steve_sordy"]https://www.emtbforums.com/community/data/avatars/s/1/1700.jpg?1542191522[/IMG]
    FEATURED Torque curves - Shimano, Bosch, Brose, Yamaha
    Does anyone know what bike that was with the Bosch gen4 motor?
    • steve_sordy
    • Post #40
    • May 4, 2021
    • Forum: Shimano
17. [IMG alt="Rob Rides EMTB"]https://www.emtbforums.com/community/data/avatars/s/0/1.jpg?1596755450[/IMG]
    Bosch Gen4 gets more power, is faster than Turbo Levo in drag race
    This motor is now very powerful, superb power at lower cadences.
    • Rob Rides EMTB
    • Thread
    • Jun 25, 2020
    • Replies: 165
    • Forum: General EMTB Forum
18. T
    Cube 160 Action Team first impressions. 9/10
    Regarding the "The only negative point was the drag over 25kmh on straights.", do you have the motor updated to version 1.1.2.0? I have a Trek Rail 7 with Bosch Gen4 motor and felt the same drag. But after the 1.1.2.0 update it resolved the drag issue for me and increased torque from 75nm to 85nm.
    • techm8n
    • Post #16
    • Sep 28, 2020
    • Forum: Cube
19. M
    New Bosch CX 2020 derestricting
    Man up!!!??? I'm 1.98m, 107kg's, 54yo and have been riding unassisted mtb's since '87. This will be my first foray into the world of e-mtb's, as i'm starting to find the big hills, on longer rides, increasingly harder to ride. With the advent of bigger and longer e-mtb's in XL and XXL...
    • Madmountainman
    • Post #39
    • Feb 17, 2020
    • Forum: Deristricting
20. [IMG alt="Timmoh"]https://www.emtbforums.com/community/data/avatars/s/9/9711.jpg?1590332852[/IMG]
    Bosch CX gen 4 chainring nut
    Just about to get one of these motors and will do this. It takes me back my days working in Aerospace-wirelocked anything that moved, and if its good enough for things we fly in with our Famlies, that's good enough for me. Plus, I like the look of it, and it adds a bit of Pro looking fettling to...
    • Timmoh
    • Post #31
    • Jul 10, 2020
    • Forum: Bosch
    • 
      

 

[flash]

When a Bosch Gen4 motor (which is what Rails have) is still "On" but assistance is "Off" exactly how much motor drag is there and what does that drag come from?

Motor drag is mostly not a thing. Take the chain off and spin the cranks. Fazua quoted less than 5 watts compared to 2 watts for a normal BB. I suspect that most modern bikes are within a watt or two of that. I don’t have a Bosch motor but my Shimano and Brose motors are only very very slightly behind my Fazua and Eon motors in drag feel. I use exactly the same tyres on all my bikes. Lightest bike is 19kg and heaviest is 23kg.

Motors feel draggy because you need to add another hundred or so watts at the cutout point to maintain speed.

Gordon

 

[Streddaz]

When a Bosch Gen4 motor (which is what Rails have) is still "On" but assistance is "Off" exactly how much motor drag is there and what does that drag come from?

It still spins the gears and internal clutch. It isn't as friction free as a conventional bike which just has the friction of the bottom bracket bearings.
A lot is the perception of drag too, that is how the motor tapers off the torque coming up to the speed cut. I've ridden a Bosch Gen 4 Rail an EP8 Sight and Crafty and they are all slower than my nonEbike Sight on a descent where some pedalling is required due to the drag. That is partly from the motor, and the extra weight. My Levo SL is pretty much the same as my Sight and I can hardly feel the motor cut out.
The more powerful the motor the more significant that cutout will feel, unless they taper that power delivery off before the cutout.