Fuel EXe Trek Fuel EXE Tuning

[ATLI]

THANKS,
It's a short distance...
To be continued....
Let's hope together that the problem is definitively solved ?......

 

[BuzzCanada]

I agree it obviously would do that at assist cut off. So I'll clarify by stating mine always occurred at between 20-23 km/h on a bike with a 32km/h cutoff speed. I could replicate the problem at will by keeping the rider input in the zone mentioned, put in 140watts and it went away.... , it was clearly a flaw and Trek and TQ agreed. Back to back testing with the shops demo bike showed that it was not normal.

Is the problem a hardware or a software issue? This is kinda important. If the fix is a firmware update, motor replacement should not be happening. The issue was not present when I first bought it but I've noticed this come up in the last few months. I am not really interested in running back to the bike shop and being in a continual warranty/complaint situation. I would hope that this is nothing more than a software issue but to be honest it's beginning to sound like a hardware or a manufacturing/assembly issue. I've had my motor updated with what I was told the latest firmware and have not seen the grumble go away. Like to know your thoughts and what TQ has said if anything. I have 800km on it so far and once something definitive comes up as a permanent solution then I will be visiting my LBS to replace the motor. I am also going to try factory resetting the power settings to see if that improves it.

 

[BuzzCanada]

In case anyone wants to know …

Here is the overlapped power data comparison from Strava for a ride recorded with both the Trek Central app and Garmin XC200 pedals (via Edge 1030). Shown top to bottom is speed, power and cadence.

Website plotting functions can be a little ‘vague‘ (see km markers, or the ave. speed lines that should be the same …), so I used the stopping points mid-ride to scale the distance (x) axis so that the timing matched for everything else.

+ The speed data are near enough identical, max. was 48.3 & 48.5km/h. I read somewhere that Trek Central App uses the OS GPS data in the saved file, so this is effectively Edge 1030 vs. iPhone 12.

+ The cadence is also near enough identical, which is what it should be. Any differences are next to negligible.

+ The power comparison is a can of worms! Due to different max. power values, I had to scale vertically as best I could – in general, I had seen that there was wildly varying differences, often factor 2, but there is one short passage at around 8.4km (uphill, speed below TQ cut-off), where both consistently showed approx. 100W, that I used to match the vertical scaling. The margin of error (due to how often I looked to compare) could easily be +/-10% or perhaps more. What is worse,, the average power lines should not overlap (I think 78W vs 117W), and if I had scaled so that they were relatively correct, the following would be much worse!!
The reality is that the TQ values (green) were rarely the same as the XC200 pedals, and in fact usually higher – look at where I hold speed, power and cadence (by accident, all above cut-off): the TQ data was 50-100% higher. Elsewhere the data doesn‘t match much either. The TQ data shows bloated values just about everywhere, but there was also consistent ‚overrun‘ shown ‚real time’ on the display for 1 or 2s, meaning that updating was generally slower. Given that Garmin has had many years to qualify their pedals (ha ha … yes, but we all know Garmin ;-), that TQ freely admits that their power data is a ‚guesstimate‘, and adding that to what I saw while riding, then, frankly, the TQ values are nothing more than ‚ball park‘ … and a fairly big one at that.

View attachment 114555

Where is the literature that TQ admits the power meter is a "Guesstimate"? That seems rather odd. A torque sensor I would imagine would be able to give us accurate wattage if calibrated properly. I would also guess that regulators certifying the motor as class 1 would require something better than a "guesstimate" of power output as well. Other motors like the Brose when connected to my Garmin provided accurate wattage compared to my pedals and was reliable. Thanks!

 

[konamac]

Is the problem a hardware or a software issue? This is kinda important. If the fix is a firmware update, motor replacement should not be happening. The issue was not present when I first bought it but I've noticed this come up in the last few months. I am not really interested in running back to the bike shop and being in a continual warranty/complaint situation. I would hope that this is nothing more than a software issue but to be honest it's beginning to sound like a hardware or a manufacturing/assembly issue. I've had my motor updated with what I was told the latest firmware and have not seen the grumble go away. Like to know your thoughts and what TQ has said if anything. I have 800km on it so far and once something definitive comes up as a permanent solution then I will be visiting my LBS to replace the motor. I am also going to try factory resetting the power settings to see if that improves it.

Definitely motor, not software, if you read my original reply to your message you'll see I mentioned that when TQ got the feedback re my symptoms they immediately instructed Trek to replace the 2nd motor as well, and confirmed that they were busy teaching their diagnostics to pick up the issue by using motors with the problem. Because according to the current TQ diagnostics, both motor 1 & 2 were fine. So they are aware of the problem and trying to get into a position that they can identify it at the source. All my motors etc were always on the latest software and 1 & 2 had the issue and no.3 not. They also didn't suggest trying anything to do with software, and immediately said replace the motor. So that's pretty definitive in my view.

 

[BuzzCanada]

Definitely motor, not software, if you read my original reply to your message you'll see I mentioned that when TQ got the feedback re my symptoms they immediately instructed Trek to replace the 2nd motor as well, and confirmed that they were busy teaching their diagnostics to pick up the issue by using motors with the problem. Because according to the current TQ diagnostics, both motor 1 & 2 were fine. So they are aware of the problem and trying to get into a position that they can identify it at the source. All my motors etc were always on the latest software and 1 & 2 had the issue and no.3 not. They also didn't suggest trying anything to do with software, and immediately said replace the motor. So that's pretty definitive in my view.

Thanks. That’s what I figured.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Where is the literature that TQ admits the power meter is a "Guesstimate"?

At one point there was a developer from TQ on the forum, think they were "Roman" . However, they and their posts all seem to have gone, so presumably they asked to be removed along with all evidence of their existence.

It's unfortunate as they seemed to provide some useful information and be openly engaged to feedback.

I can't remember their words exactly but it was stated that the figure shown wasn't exact/calibrated at this point.

There are some other bits and bobs in the TQ section under Motors :

TQ

www.emtbforums.com

 

[ATLI]

I emailed Roman Suetzer successfully to replace the first engine.
But, my last emails, are, to date, unanswered.
I think the engine, new, for about 200 kms is soft and quiet, but when the clutch noise appears, the assistance is no longer linear.
It is probably imperceptible for a quiet use, in the plain, but for difficult, mountainous courses, it is not portable.

 

[BlueIn2Red]

Does anybody know if it is possible to change the region/country code of the TQ motor, such that it assume the US assist threshold rather than the (lower) UK/EU one? I’m thinking it must be a software/firmware thing, rather than hardware, but guess that if it is possible, then the dealer dongle and software is required? I’ve asked my dealer, but they have no interest in helping (understandably in a way of course).

 

[ATLI]

the use of the dongle, does not allow to modify this

 

[ATLI]

I traveled 200kms with my third engine/Domane SLR+
No growling heard...
But still no assistance under 80w...
And assistance variations on long climbs, unexplained and unacceptable.
Sufficient motorization for cycle paths... but not for climbing mountain passes...
Too bad for the price...
Ans it is not specified during the purchase?....

 

[BuzzCanada]

Definitely motor, not software, if you read my original reply to your message you'll see I mentioned that when TQ got the feedback re my symptoms they immediately instructed Trek to replace the 2nd motor as well, and confirmed that they were busy teaching their diagnostics to pick up the issue by using motors with the problem. Because according to the current TQ diagnostics, both motor 1 & 2 were fine. So they are aware of the problem and trying to get into a position that they can identify it at the source. All my motors etc were always on the latest software and 1 & 2 had the issue and no.3 not. They also didn't suggest trying anything to do with software, and immediately said replace the motor. So that's pretty definitive in my view.

How’s motor number 3 performing and how many km’s on it ?

 

[konamac]

How’s motor number 3 performing and how many km’s on it ?

#3 is 550km in and flawless to date, no sign of the inconsistent power delivery or anything else. Also seems quieter than the previous two, but that may just be because rumbling as it cuts power or whining as it spools up repeatedly. All good. Fingers crossed.

 

[Ali_Foto]

Dear all
I have received my TQ service dongle and updated my Fuel ExE TQ system firmware and have noticed better performance in my ridding .

 

[Mteam]

Dear all
I have received my TQ service dongle and updated my Fuel ExE TQ system firmware and have noticed better performance in my ridding .

View attachment 138455 View attachment 138456 View attachment 138457

Thanks for that. Could you try and describe how the firmware has Changed the motor performance?

 

[Ali_Foto]

Thanks for that. Could you try and describe how the firmware has Changed the motor performance?

It looks that motor response has delay to pedaling when I compare with present condition and had some small noise in starting of assist , I was looking to find a way to override 25 km speed limit to 32 km (USA version speed limit )but not find it.

 

[TQmotorguy]

It looks that motor response has delay to pedaling when I compare with present condition and had some small noise in starting of assist , I was looking to find a way to override 25 km speed limit to 32 km (USA version speed limit )but not find it.

Do you see any improvement in rider power accuracy? I often see people say it looks to be 30-40% lower than it actually is.

 

[Ali_Foto]

Do you see any improvement in rider power accuracy? I often see people say it looks to be 30-40% lower than it actually is.

I have to check with another pedal power meter and I do not have it at the moment .Do you know any way to calculate it manually by cadence ,heart rate , speed parameters

 

[TQmotorguy]

I have to check with another pedal power meter and I do not have it at the moment .Do you know any way to calculate it manually by cadence ,heart rate , speed parameters

I don’t think there’s any accurate way to determine your power without a power meter. If you had experience with one in the past you could get a rough estimate based on your perceived exertion and heart rate and the time or average speed comparison from other rides. I know TQ has said not to expect their rider power to be accurate but I think software adjustments on their end could improve the accuracy.

 

[Ali_Foto]

I don’t think there’s any accurate way to determine your power without a power meter. If you had experience with one in the past you could get a rough estimate based on your perceived exertion and heart rate and the time or average speed comparison from other rides. I know TQ has said not to expect their rider power to be accurate but I think software adjustments on their end could improve the accuracy.

Is there any way to change speed limit from 25 km/h to 32 km/h (20 Miles / h like the Ebike in USA)

 

[Ali_Foto]

Is there any way to change speed limit from 25 km/h to 32 km/h (20 Miles / h like the Ebike in USA)