Article Testing the new Shimano EP8 motor

[jooles]

I’m testing 8 new EP8 Bikes over the next 5 days. Anything you would like to know let me known

I’ll be sure to be testing the clattering noise on all of them.

Hi Rob: If possible, not only the motor but how/if the new motor/battery has affected the weight distribution, geometry and handling of the bikes. Better technical climbing with more torque? Cornering feel ? Etc. If the motor is lighter having more weight around the BB can actually help in gravity stuff.

I'm not sure if these 8 bikes had the E8000 previously so you can compare accordingly ?

Enjoy the testing, jealous - yep ;-)

Jules

 

[Pdoz]

I’m testing 8 new EP8 Bikes over the next 5 days. Anything you would like to know let me known

I’ll be sure to be testing the clattering noise on all of them.

Any chance you could ask the warranty / after sales service questions?

Let the manufacturers know the market is thinking about this!!

Eg How long is the warranty on the motor / is it a rolling warranty / what happens in 2 years when the warranty runs out? Why on earth would we buy your shimano when specialized offer 4 years? ( not that I'd buy spec....but please get footage of mr marketing dude when you ask)

 

[STATO]

Any chance you could ask the warranty / after sales service questions?

Let the manufacturers know the market is thinking about this!!

Eg How long is the warranty on the motor / is it a rolling warranty / what happens in 2 years when the warranty runs out? Why on earth would we buy your shimano when specialized offer 4 years? ( not that I'd buy spec....but please get footage of mr marketing dude when you ask)

I thought Specialized still only offer 2 years. 4 years is for people with 2018 bike and a motor with specific issues?

Anyway, questions!

A clear announcement about motor availability in the future i think is what everyone is asking for though. This doesnt just apply to Shimano, i think this is opening up the question to all manufacturers, how long can i get spares to keep my (rather expensive) bike running?

Much like modern cars it seems that technology is making them unviable after a certain amount of time, without an extended warranty. So id like someone to start asking how these manufacturers plan to support long term viability, perhaps through extended warranty schemes or similar. Otherwise they are straying towards reduced lifetime and becoming semi-disposable (and reduced s/h value), which makes cost of ownership even more expensive.

 

[R120]

@Rob Rides EMTB i think it would be great to see which brand has integrated and clevelry worked with the new sytem best - i.e i am sure some bikes are the same as before but just with the new motor, but i am guessing some others have looked at the packaging possibilities of the new system and thought about that in the design.

 

[congerball]

I thought Specialized still only offer 2 years. 4 years is for people with 2018 bike and a motor with specific issues?

4 year warranty on all 2019 and 2020 Turbo Levos & 2020 Kenevos ?

Levo Gen 2 - Warranty extension & Firmware Update for all 2019/20 Levo/Kenevo with 2.1 motors

To all owners of 2019/20 Turbo Levo & 2020 Kenevo featuring the Specialized 2.1 motor, here's a letter to you from Mike Sinyard - our founder and CEO. Thanks for all of your support & feedback on this forum. We'll keep a close eye on this thread and do our best to answer any questions.

www.emtbforums.com

 

[Macone]

I've just had a new E8000 fitted to my focus jam2 under warranty. Not concerned about next time as I see focus have just released a new jam2 with EP8 motor. Its the exact same bike as mine including the same main battery and tec pac. Only difference is motor, wiring and display/controller. My first motor lasted me 5300kms and 18 months. I'm confident I'll be able to source an EP8 18 months from now, including wiring etc. At the end of the day, its just "parts" that I know will fit. "Glass half full". Let's ride!!

 

[STATO]

4 year warranty on all 2019 and 2020 Turbo Levos & 2020 Kenevos ?

Levo Gen 2 - Warranty extension & Firmware Update for all 2019/20 Levo/Kenevo with 2.1 motors

To all owners of 2019/20 Turbo Levo & 2020 Kenevo featuring the Specialized 2.1 motor, here's a letter to you from Mike Sinyard - our founder and CEO. Thanks for all of your support & feedback on this forum. We'll keep a close eye on this thread and do our best to answer any questions.

www.emtbforums.com

Ah cool, doesnt apply to 2021 though. Wonder if this makes a 2020 a better purchase than the 'fixed' but unproven 2021 models?

 

[MrBrownstone]

Sorry, not a like for like replacement. Shimanos on website states the difference that the E8000 is suitable for "mountainous terrain" and "extreme MTB riding" whereas the E7000 is "Hilly terrain" and "off-road thrills"

meh drink whatever marketing koolaid you choose. E7000 is more than sufficient

 

[STATO]

Rob,

Id appreciate a comparison of the new vs old wiring. Ive seen another review which suggests the cables are narrower, not sure if they meant the port or actual wire.

I find this quite interesting given it used Di2 ports previously and we are still waiting on 12 speed Di2.... 1+1 = new Di2 will use a different wiring found with EP8?

The proof i guess will be does the EP8 have a port for Di2 derailleur, and can you even answer that question (given its not been mentioned in any reports ive seen i find that quite interesting).

 

[MattyB]

It's interesting that both the latest motors released from Bosch and Shimano have this rattle when descending. This adds credence to Shimano's statement that it is a compromise they've decided to make to enhance performance in other areas, but judging by the response online it is going to be a deal breaker for some, perhaps many potential buyers. Rather than us hypothesising I would like to know definitively from Shimano what it is that is causing the rattle and what negatives fixing it would have - reduced drag might be the goal, but if so would many buyers not prefer a bit more drag to this noise?

PS - For me the most disappointing thing about the EP8 is the lack of serviceable bearings. That was a known issue on the E8000 and E7000, yet they have chosen to do nothing about it, instead chasing the smaller/lighter/more powerful mantra like all the rest. I really don't like Specialized's historic ebike business model (extreme premium prices to provide good service for unreliable product, at least in UK conditions) but that Mahle motor in the SL is looking increasingly like the pick of the bunch. If that is in the next gen Levo with uprated power I expect it to be a huge seller...

 

[drjarvis2003]

Copied this from Ebike smile facebook group.


EP8 news
Gutted, just been told Shimano are having problems and will not release motor until fixed.
Email from shop
I spent yesterday getting an answer from Commencal in regards to the stock, which we’d be informed was 31st August.
We have now been told that, currently, Shimano are having some issues and are not permitting the motors to be sold until issue is resolved. For that reason Commencal do not have any date for the moment since, they say, it depends on Shimano and not on Commencal.
So, I’m afraid our options here are limited.
I’d suggest I refund you and wait until we have some more solid answers from Commencal on when our stock will be arriving.
22
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[Mteam]

It's interesting that both the latest motors released from Bosch and Shimano have this rattle when descending. This adds credence to Shimano's statement that it is a compromise they've decided to make to enhance performance in other areas, but judging by the response online it is going to be a deal breaker for some, perhaps many potential buyers. Rather than us hypothesising I would like to know definitively from Shimano what it is that is causing the rattle and what negatives fixing it would have - reduced drag might be the goal, but if so would many buyers not prefer a bit more drag to this noise?

I've got the bosch motor and the rattle is such a non issue, I cant believe the fuss being made about it. yes you can hear it, but its not intrusive at all, especially with all the other noises that are going on when you're flying down a rocky descent.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Rob this new app is not great on a E8000 it bricked my bike!

Hi mate - sorry to hear this! Any luck bringing it back to life?

 

[stiv674]

I’m testing 8 new EP8 Bikes over the next 5 days. Anything you would like to know let me known

I’ll be sure to be testing the clattering noise on all of them.

Do you want an apprentice?

 

[drjarvis2003]

I’m testing 8 new EP8 Bikes over the next 5 days. Anything you would like to know let me known

I’ll be sure to be testing the clattering noise on all of them.

Dont know if it has already been asked, but the one question that people have been asking is the range compared to the E8000 with the same battery?

 

[RickBullotta]

Rob, correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't yamaha / giant just done a similar thing? The pwx2 quietly replaced the pwx1 in 2020 , if a pre 2019 pwx dies under warranty Giant puts in a 2020 pwx2 AND associated wiring harness. We just haven't yet heard from customers who have killed a pwx outside of warranty and needed to fund this themselves.

Sadly , very few people are likely to be paying to keep > 2 year old emtb's running when the magic smoke escapes outside of warranty, but it'd be really nice to think that was possible.

I sure as hell will. It's expensive and irresponsible to discard a 2 year old MTB just because warranty parts aren't available. I'm 99% certain there would be a class action lawsuit against Shimano if E8000 replacement motors became scarce.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I’m testing 8 new EP8 Bikes over the next 5 days. Anything you would like to know let me known

Can you do the "drag strip" - the exact same test you did for the Bosch Firmware update V the Levo ?

More complicated, but can you do a real world enduro type usage test ?

IE : Pick a 20-25km loop 1000m total climb . Ride it on an EP8 bike and as similar spec as possible E8000 bike (On subsequent days). IN BOOST !

Check your times and how much WH you used. This might give some idea of real world performance improvements with regard to the motor putting out power for longer and also give an indication to it being more efficient or not ?

If you want to make it more interesting and give more data, race @TheBikePilot . Then swap bikes the next day for some interesting metrics.

You can dress up too. You'll obviously have to be Robin, so that makes @TheBikePilot Batman ! Unless TBP is older, then he could be Alfred I guess.

 

[steve_sordy]

I sure as hell will. It's expensive and irresponsible to discard a 2 year old MTB just because warranty parts aren't available. I'm 99% certain there would be a class action lawsuit against Shimano if E8000 replacement motors became scarce.

Now that's the sort of fighting talk we ought to be using with Shimano!

Sadly, it is more likely to pay off in the litigious USA than in the UK.

 

[HeatproofGenie]

More complicated, but can you do a real world enduro type usage test ?

IE : Pick a 20-25km loop 1000m total climb . Ride it on an EP8 bike and as similar spec as possible E8000 bike (On subsequent days). IN BOOST !

Check your times and how much WH you used. This might give some idea of real world performance improvements with regard to the motor putting out power for longer and also give an indication to it being more efficient or not ?

This, except don't ride in boost. Ride purely in Trail. Boost is fine and all but for most not a widely used mode and I think will be even less used with the extra torque of the EP8.

 

[raine]

This, except don't ride in boost. Ride purely in Trail. Boost is fine and all but for most not a widely used mode and I think will be even less used with the extra torque of the EP8.

There's no such thing as a "pure" ride in TRAIL mode when it comes to assist numbers because it constantly adjusts dynamically based on rider input... so it becomes another variable. Using ECO or BOOST at least keeps the assist level at a preset number throughout the test.

 

[raine]

It's interesting that both the latest motors released from Bosch and Shimano have this rattle when descending. This adds credence to Shimano's statement that it is a compromise they've decided to make to enhance performance in other areas, but judging by the response online it is going to be a deal breaker for some, perhaps many potential buyers. Rather than us hypothesising I would like to know definitively from Shimano what it is that is causing the rattle and what negatives fixing it would have - reduced drag might be the goal, but if so would many buyers not prefer a bit more drag to this noise?

No matter how Shimano initially responded to the noise issue... compromise is a compromise. It only takes one really bad "feature" to derail a product, no matter how many good "features" the new product has. Judging from the real-world reactions so far I've seen from us paying customers, the fact that the new motor has this noise is already a problem.

"I really like a noisy bike!" ... said no one ever LOL

 

[RickBullotta]

No matter how Shimano initially responded to the noise issue... compromise is a compromise. It only takes one really bad "feature" to derail a product, no matter how many good "features" the new product has. Judging from the real-world reactions so far I've seen from us paying customers, the fact that the new motor has this noise is already a problem.

"I really like a noisy bike!" ... said no one ever LOL

The rumor mill is buzzing that Shimano may be holding up shipments to OEMs for some unnamed issue...maybe this is it.

 

[rb.]

Copied this from Ebike smile facebook group.


EP8 news
Gutted, just been told Shimano are having problems and will not release motor until fixed.
Email from shop
I spent yesterday getting an answer from Commencal in regards to the stock, which we’d be informed was 31st August.
We have now been told that, currently, Shimano are having some issues and are not permitting the motors to be sold until issue is resolved. For that reason Commencal do not have any date for the moment since, they say, it depends on Shimano and not on Commencal.
So, I’m afraid our options here are limited.
I’d suggest I refund you and wait until we have some more solid answers from Commencal on when our stock will be arriving.
22
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Comment

Can confirm this is accurate. My friend talked with Commencal this morning and they expressed concern that Shimano could do a total recall of the EP8 motors.

 

[R120]

Yup, everyone I have spoken with on the shop/retail side has said its looking unlikely we will see any EP8 bikes this side of Christmas based on what they are being told

 

[stiv674]

If that's true then what an almighty cock up!

 

[Zimmerframe]

This, except don't ride in boost. Ride purely in Trail. Boost is fine and all but for most not a widely used mode and I think will be even less used with the extra torque of the EP8.

But the idea of riding in boost is you can see if the motor power drops off or not, they claim it doesn't. It also gives you a fixed setting your riding against so you can see if it's any more efficient. Is it 10% faster round the circuit and uses the same WH ? If you ride in trail, it's just a plod around and proves that the bike can ride around a circuit .. As @raine says, trail is dynamic, so will be changing constantly depending on how you are riding.

 

[Dirtnvert]

Well ill give them credit for realizing theres a problem and fixing it before they release them

 

[raine]

The rumor mill is buzzing that Shimano may be holding up shipments to OEMs for some unnamed issue...maybe this is it.

What a PR fail if this is true.
I mean - did Shimano actually think that because "the Bosch does it too" that it would make the clunking noise acceptable? LOL

I kind of feel bad for all those people who stalled their eMTB purchase for months specifically for one single purpose of waiting for this new motor... then again if one chose a bike based on the whole package (not just the motor/battery it comes with) one would be riding an eMTB right now and enjoying it. Heh

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Rob,

Id appreciate a comparison of the new vs old wiring. Ive seen another review which suggests the cables are narrower, not sure if they meant the port or actual wire.

I find this quite interesting given it used Di2 ports previously and we are still waiting on 12 speed Di2.... 1+1 = new Di2 will use a different wiring found with EP8?

The proof i guess will be does the EP8 have a port for Di2 derailleur, and can you even answer that question (given its not been mentioned in any reports ive seen i find that quite interesting).

This might help.

 

[rb.]

Well ill give them credit for realizing theres a problem and fixing it before they release them

Not true. Bike manufactures already had it. They didn’t start back tracking until the customer started freaking out about the loud rattle. Commencal was locked and loaded to start shipping out bikes in a few weeks, now who knows how long it will take.