Article Testing the new Shimano EP8 motor

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Let's have a look at the performance charts. Both motors nominally require 250 watts of continuous power - that is the legal regulation. Does that also mean that the motors are all the same? No. You have to know: a pedelec motor is not regulated in terms of its peak performance. So north the 2020 Bosch CX with approx. 550 watts peak power on paper more power than the Brose DriveS with its just over 500 watts. In practice, these numbers can also be "eaten" by the tires. The wrong air pressure in the tire alone can make a difference of up to 40 watts. A small victory in the quartet for eMTBers is achieved with the Brose in terms of torque: there it is 90Nm to 85Nm for the Bosch CX Generation 4. But: what are these numbers in practice?

source but in German ?

BOSCH oder BROSE – welcher Antrieb ist besser?

Brose hat mit dem DriveS Mag einen starken Antrieb im Programm. Bosch zieht mit der Neuauflage des 2020er Performance CX nach. Wer gewinnt das Duell?

ebike-zone.de

This article is incorrect. Brose Mag S on Levo puts out 565 watts peak mechanical watts (actually is upto around 750 watts electrical power).

Shimano is 500 watts peak confirmed by Shimano engineers to me in person.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Yup don't confuse electrical input power to mechanical power output on the power train, heat and friction are a huge user of your battery without any gain to your actual on the ground cycling fun.

 

[downunderdallas]

Hi mate - sorry to hear this! Any luck bringing it back to life?

Hi Rob, yes fortunately only the Android App is cactus, I borrowed a friends iphone and back in business but yeah Android App is a basketcase.

 

[jimbob]

Hi Rob, yes fortunately only the Android App is cactus, I borrowed a friends iphone and back in business but yeah Android App is a basketcase.

Such a shame this whole launch has gone so wrong. It does make me question my choice of shimano motor, but I expect all the manufacturers are the same in reality.

Thats part of adopting a relatively new technology I guess!

 

[LevoLover7]

Such a shame this whole launch has gone so wrong. It does make me question my choice of shimano motor, but I expect all the manufacturers are the same in reality.

Thats part of adopting a relatively new technology I guess!

where is the problem? so far the engine is not in series production and by then shimano will very likely have fixed the rattle.

Despite the construction problem, Brose delivered the S Mag and to this day the motors continue to poop. I really hope that the Levo 3 will come without Brose.

 

[LevoLover7]

This article is incorrect. Brose Mag S on Levo puts out 565 watts peak mechanical watts (actually is upto around 750 watts electrical power).

Shimano is 500 watts peak confirmed by Shimano engineers to me in person.

View attachment 39728

Thanks good to know.

 

[jimbob]

where is the problem? so far the engine is not in series production and by then shimano will very likely have fixed the rattle.

Well, I would say that that pulling the product after (the already delayed) launch isn't ideal and demonstrates a lack of testing / proving of the product, and updating an app which has issues including rendering bikes (albeit reversable) non functional isnt how to cover yourself in glory!

 

[LevoLover7]

Well, I would say that that pulling the product after (the already delayed) launch isn't ideal and demonstrates a lack of testing / proving of the product, and updating an app which has issues including rendering bikes (albeit reversable) non functional isnt how to cover yourself in glory!

Yes, I agree. Shimano has set himself the Release date of September 1st. It would have been better to wait another 2-3 months. However, there is so much pressure in the market and it is actually quite normal for a new product to be further improved after its launch. It is best to buy a product 2-3 years after its introduction. I just hope that the EP8 doesn't experience such an embarrassing disaster as the Brose S Mag. It remains exciting ...

 

[steve_sordy]

Marketeers not listening to the engineers!

 

[jimbob]

Marketeers not listening to the engineers!

Isn't that always the way!

 

[notaninfluencer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdJiJnU7gCg

So I tested a few days after Rob, I rode a few bikes, they all rattled a lot, like a large very loose cable in the frame. Was very annoying. Shimano said they would fix it and listened to our feedback...

 

[Dan63]

I can't see the noise being easily fixed without major redesign, if it were easy fixed with the current hardware it wouldn't be there in the first place

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

If power is your thing then the EP8 is not the motor for you. Failed miserably against Bosch Gen 4, Brose 2.1 and Yamaha PWX2. Considerably slower when timed up a short hill vs the others.

 

[jimbob]

If power is your thing then the EP8 is not the motor for you. Failed miserably against Bosch Gen 4, Brose 2.1 and Yamaha PWX2. Considerably slower when timed up a short hill vs the others.

Out of interest, could you feel much difference between the EP8 and E7000/E8000?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Out of interest, could you feel much difference between the EP8 and E7000/E8000?

Haven’t done a direct comparison but I’d think a bit more power from EP8 especially at lower cadence.

 

[HeatproofGenie]

If power is your thing then the EP8 is not the motor for you. Failed miserably against Bosch Gen 4, Brose 2.1 and Yamaha PWX2. Considerably slower when timed up a short hill vs the others.

What about range per kWh? E8000 on middle assist trail is plenty of power for me on even the steepest gnar in CO so the power upmanship doesn't concern me. I want efficiency. Look at EVs and what Tesla has been able to do with the range on their pack sizes then compare to say the Audi E-tron. Range per kWh and even range per combined motor and battery size should be a newly considered and highly important metric IMO.

 

[Hoodcreeper]

If I bought my bike second hand, and it is equipped with e8000, will they warranty motor if I’m not original owner and have no original receipt? What is my motor fails? Can’t warranty for replacement e8000? Can I buy e7000 on my own? Perhaps I should dump my bike while I can and it’s running....get something with a better long term outlook. (#dumpShimano). Don’t know what to do. Don’t want to end up with a $6000 piece of carbon. Selling for parts perhaps....

 

[Mteam]

I'd imagine that even if you cant buy a replacement e8000 motor on the open market/internet, you will still be able to get them replaced (for a fee - if outside warranty - as usual) at a shimano service centre for a good number of years.

I wouldnt worry about available of replacement e8000 motors

 

[Gary]

If power is your thing then the EP8 is not the motor for you. Failed miserably against Bosch Gen 4, Brose 2.1 and Yamaha PWX2. Considerably slower when timed up a short hill vs the others.

Pretty much the only thing that disappoints me about the assistance levels of the E8000 is way the power drop off as cadence rises has been implemented. I do agree with Shimano's choice to gradually taper off power output as cadence increases as it makes for a far more natural feeling assistance when riding. I just disagree that the power curve should begin to taper as early as the've set it to and not to drop off so steeply.. As it is, by 120rpm and above it basically gives very little assistance at all. and 129rpm isn't difficult to spin past on normal bikes. Using the E8000 display, the power bar graphic along the bottom of the screen allows a savy rider to choose gearing that maximises power output. (or minimise it if you're trying to eek out battery range). and looking at the coloured bar the resulting power output from using higher cadence becomes glaringly obvious.. I've adjusted my riding style and gearing to suit the E8000. There's basically no way I could live with an E8000 using a 32t chainring. and even with a 36T I have no need for a cassette larger than 36T.

I imagine the EP8 may have similar traits in this respect?
The better result with lower cadence on the Merida does suggest this is the cae.
I wonder if the result would have improved had you looked at the power bars the entire climb and chosen gearing to keep it maxed out the entire climb? Not exactly ideal in real world on anything other than fireroad climbs but you do learn to "feel" what output the motor gives you at certain cadences, gearing and inclines. (I don't use a display at all anymore with mine)

 

[Norbici]

Thanks for the info!

Would you say that EP8 is quieter uphill when pedalling than Turbo Levo SL’s 1.1 Mahle? And Turbo Levo's Brose?

Thanks!

 

[jooles]

Went for a bimble with a mate who has an SL. I’m on the old e8000. On climbs the SL was similar noise to my 8000 on dialled up eco. SL Wasn’t a quiet as thought it would be with lower torque however when I rode it the delivery of power is very smooth. Like an Audi auto gearbox. My 8000 is rather binary and more jerky on engagement rather like a Honda manual gearbox ;-)

of interest....and it was very cold...my battery ran out a couple of miles out and the SL with piggyback had a total of around 20% left. I was in eco most of the time although had set it to a high level of assist.

I’m using a 32T chainring. changed for 34 as have 11-42 on the back. To help in steeper technical climbs. I don’t find my cadence vs. Power being an issue as rarely go over 100. However do find that need to get assist settings right in STunlocker otherwise the motor just cuts out even below max speed if the assist level has been reached.