They didn't say if that was metal fatigue or rider fatigue from the rattle ? ?
They didn't say if that was metal fatigue or rider fatigue from the rattle ? ?
From what I can see, Shimano aren't covering themselves with glory here. How it's possible to launch a product which doesnt meet specification, especialy as the lauch has been delayed, is beyond me. I know it is easy to end up with a product which doesnt function in the real world as expected, but this has clearly not been tested correctly during development, or there is a coverup going on...
A great shame, as I imagine it will do a lot of damage to their market share.
They wouldn’t want to canibalise new bike sales
For large manufacturers, yes, but for smaller manufacturers with a less frequent frame refresh/update cycle, it is a viable option. It isn't feasible to take the depreciation hit on a 2 year old eMTB just to get a small feature. I guess for some people it's fine to do that, but not most.
Lol, My friend ran one of those Silent Shimano hubs for a while. He was randomly given it with the disclaimer, “You can run this, but it can and will fail at any given time”.Not the first time its happened in recent history with bike manufacturers.
Shimano silent XTR hubs? never made it to production, despite prototypes being shown to journalists.
SRAM disc brake recall, HUGE HUGE loss for SRAM on their first road bike disc brake (Way bigger market than the EP8)
I'm sure there are others but not any off the top of my head.
@Rob Rides EMTB
I'm fortunate enough to own a rally car. Whines, clunks, rattles are part of the process. If I was to pick one the Diff is particularly irking clunk at low speeds (feels like a loose drive shaft), but its just how it is made for speed not refinement. Along with all the metal bushes, clutch chatter, sound deadening in the form of ear plugs, squeeling brakes, etc. It took a long time to have trust there was nothing wrong and this is from someone whose friend experienced a knocking sound on a track day that turned out to be wobbling wheels hitting calipers from a botched wheel refurb >.<
Its why regulars cars come with rubber bushings, sound mats, etc at the expense of feel and weight.
I can see you point though; a loose ratterling sound can feel unsettling when you are putting your faith in a bike. I'm in the same boat when it comes to rattles if its constant I think I could tune it out if its random each time then if would prick my anxiety something has come loose. Maybe you are more aware of noises as the bikes you ride change often and you not the sole user so its hard to have a normal base line for rattles. Then again if it saves 30% of drag maybe its worth it.
So agrued myself to stale mate and comes down to 'can you live with it?'
Yeah. But motors shouldn't run silent.However, bikes should run silent in terms of rattles. People spend hours on bikes trying to eliminate them.
Yeah. But motors shouldn't run silent.
You ride a bike with a motor.
I sorta see your point but I'd go back to riding normal bikes if you want silence. They're not only quieter. They're a lot more fun to ride. ?
Belts have been proven, virtually every agricultural machine runs with belts and are reliable in pretty extreme conditions over 1000's of hours and they are the best for sound dampening. Heat, forget sound deadening materials, you'll lock the heat in and motors do not like heat, radiaters and coolants, that's weight which we're trying to get rid of, metal to metal gears without an extreme oil lubricant means shortened life, metal to specialised plastic gears are quiet but limited by the limited size of the engine to tiny gears which can't handle the loads, oh the conundrums but where are the oil filled gearboxes every car on the planet has been using for 100 years or more ?I have a feeling emtbs won't get much quieter without some kind of radiator liquid coolant. They could use a belt like brose but thats debatable whether we can call that proven. With non belt emtb motors like the ep8 they could add sound insulation but thats also heat insulation and i suspect that would be a contributor to premature bb bearing failure as well as torque sensor failure. Lighter battery tech might be tge next revolution so the weight they lose czn be partially taken up by a mini radiator /coolant system with an insulated motor casing with heat exhaust out the top of the casing into the frame
isn't it weird to come out with a new product that doesn't exceed the specs of the existing competition? this is arms race 101.If anyone was wondering about peak power on the EP8, I asked, and was told that it has a mechanical peak power of 500watts.
In comparison to other peak power output from other motors:
560 watts on Brose Mag S on Levo
650 watts on Bosch Gen 4 (allegedly)
If anyone was wondering about peak power on the EP8, I asked, and was told that it has a mechanical peak power of 500watts.
In comparison to other peak power output from other motors:
560 watts on Brose Mag S on Levo
650 watts on Bosch Gen 4 (allegedly)
What’s the source? Specialized quote the Brose Mag S as 560w.the truth is...
Bosch CX4 550W not 650W
Brose Mag S just above 500W but less than CX4
isn't it weird to come out with a new product that doesn't exceed the specs of the existing competition? this is arms race 101.
What’s the source? Specialized quote the Brose Mag S as 560w.
A Bosch employee told me the CX4 was 650. Happy to stand corrected with some further info ?
Just spoke with some of the Shimano team specialists and an OEM partner manager and product manager for EP8.
They are well aware of the rattle noise and are hoping to be able to take some steps to reduce it (although they probably will not totally eliminate the noise) with some alterations to manufacturing tolerances.
They hope to be able to do this in conjunction with the production line changes to make sure it passes the ISO test.
If not in the first run, they hope to be able to make future running changes to the motor to be able to reduce the noise.
So BEST case they are able to reduce it somewhat before EP8 goes into full production.
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