Article Testing the new Shimano EP8 motor

[stiv674]

I've just watched the EMBN video, disappointed that there was no mention of the rattle by them...

 

[STATO]

I've just watched the EMBN video, disappointed that there was no mention of the rattle by them...

Sponsored content, do they (Steve) ever say anything bad? I used to watch it but cant be bothered to sit through it now.

Yes the new internal batteries will technical work with the e8000, the restricting factor is if your bike can take the new battery, which is unlikely.The Singletrack video has some good info on elevation and range - also interesting use of the new walk mode!

I like how he compared that his EP8 had battery left when riding against an E8000 Merida.... presumably forgetting the 603Wh his bike has over the 504Wh that the other bike is supplied with

 

[Gary]

No it definitely seems louder than that..

Have a listen...

It does from the video. But still hard to tell what it really sounds like as gopro recordings never sound (to me) like real riding sounds anyway.
The frequency of the rattle seems similar to chainslap chatter.
How quietened were the chain stays on that merida?
Chainslap is just one of the reasons I tend to run far smaller range cassettes than most folk. (smaller sprockets = shorter chain = quieter bike)

 

[raine]

Sponsored content, do they (Steve) ever say anything bad? I used to watch it but cant be bothered to sit through it now.

LOL Steve is one of the biggest ass-kissers I've seen on YouTube when it comes to sponsored content.
Same guy who likes arguing with viewers because he thinks he knows everything.
I started being selective about which EMTB videos to watch because of his attitude.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

It does from the video. But still hard to tell what it really sounds like as gopro recordings never sound (to me) like real riding sounds anyway.
The frequency of the rattle seems similar to chainslap chatter.
How quietened were the chain stays on that merida?
Chainslap is just one of the reasons I tend to run far smaller range cassettes than most folk. (smaller sprockets = shorter chain = quieter bike)

Check from 8:20 on the vid and see what you think - it’s definitely coming from the motor.

 

[stiv674]

Sponsored content, do they (Steve) ever say anything bad? I used to watch it but cant be bothered to sit through it now.

Rob's video was sponsored as well, at least he tells us how it is. They do say they're not a review channel though, more of an information one.

 

[raine]

Check from 8:20 on the vid and see what you think - it’s definitely coming from the motor.

I agree with your video Rob... there are a lot of improvements with the new EP8... but I don't think that means they get a pass on the obvious noise issue that everyone can easily hear (and you showed in the video).

Decouplers aren't new tech, it's been done without noise in other applications outside of MTB. What is worse with the EP8 is not just that there is that noise, but because it sounds like someone dropped screws inside the motor casing and left them there!

"Yes, I want a rattling motor" said no one.

 

[highpeakrider]

It's not just a few existing customers. The entire current customer base, built up since the intro of Shimano motors are potential repeat purchasers. Why piss them off unnecessarily? If sufficiently pissed off they may stop buying ALL Shimano products; there are so many competitors it's easy to do.

I can't see any evidence that this is the case as they also piss off bike manufacturers who if this is the case will swap types of motor used.

I think this is forum over reaction and warrantee replacements will be available.

 

[HeatproofGenie]

Yes the new internal batteries will technical work with the e8000, the restricting factor is if your bike can take the new battery, which is unlikely.The Singletrack video has some good info on elevation and range - also interesting use of the new walk mode!

So not likely for older internal battery bikes as the new 630 wh battery is bigger than the old 504wh battery from what I've read. Bummer.

Still, need to know what kind of vert this system can climb! Levos with the 700wh battery can do 7-8,000k ft which is seeming to be the top standard.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

So not likely for older internal battery bikes as the new 630 wh battery is bigger than the old 504wh battery from what I've read. Bummer.

Still, need to know what kind of vert this system can climb! Levos with the 700wh battery can do 7-8,000k ft which is seeming to be the top standard.

I got 28 miles and 3000ft before mine died.

draggy DD MaxxGrip tyres though.

 

[Mteam]

I got 28 miles and 3000ft before mine died.

draggy DD MaxxGrip tyres though.

How does that compare to what you have seen on the bosch bikes with 625wh batteries?

 

[HeatproofGenie]

I got 28 miles and 3000ft before mine died.

draggy DD MaxxGrip tyres though.

Interesting. Was that from a full charge? I ask as I can get about 4000ft or 1300m on my 504 E8000 bike with Maxxgrip DH casing tires and front and rear CushCore. That's here in CO which is pretty steep climbing. That's a bit of Eco and then Trail on middle setting in e-tube

 

[highpeakrider]

How does that compare to what you have seen on the bosch bikes with 625wh batteries?

ive clocked 25 miles and climbed 3926 feet on my Whyte with 2 bars left.

 

[R120]

Yeah thats interesting because its not far off from what I get at the moment - I think the best I have got out of mine with 3000ft of climbing is about 26 miles, mostly in trail mode.

It would be interesting to know how the extra wight negates the range - my bike is around 21kg, so going up to a 24kg bike with a bigger battery wouldnt get me a substantial increase is suspect.

Will be interesting to see what range I get out of the external 630wh battery - it will push the weight up of the bike to just under 23kg from my man maths and what info is online.

 

[Mteam]

Hmmm, I'm still getting used to how best to use my bosch gen 4 with 625wh battery. But as examples :-

Ride a: 20 miles with 3200 feet of climbing, whole ride done in a combo of emtb and turbo, I had 27% left.

Ride b: 30miles with 3200 feet of climbing, mostly eco and tour with a small amount of emtb and turbo, I had 47% left.

This is on an orbea wild fs with maxxis max terra tyres.

My figures seem a lot better than robs with the ep8, which is surprising, I'd expect them to be largely similar.

 

[R120]

its only really possible to compare range with the same rider, same tires, and the same route, of course you would have to try and ride in compatible modes too. I have a friend with a Jam2 with the 370wh battery, and he gets same range than me on my bike mainly because he weighs a lot less, and the bike does too.

Interestingly I get a fair bit more range on my hardtail than my FS, which I reckon has something to do with the drivetrain efficiency of a hardtail. Both bikes have same motor, battery and tires, though the hardtail weighs about a kilo less.

 

[HeatproofGenie]

Rider weight, tires, bike weight and then how hard a rider pedals are probably the big variables here. I'm not too surprised to hear that a HT is more efficient with regards to the battery usage than a dually. I would imagine that some motors are more efficient; could be a question of better tolerances of all components of the motor, bearings, gears, etc.

 

[Dirtnvert]

Comparing Shimano's obsolescence procedures of XTR with the e8000 motor might be the same practice, but the impact is not the same at all. Your old XTR mech breaks, fine replace it with the new one. It will still bolt on to your mech hanger and it will still work with the rest of the bike. You will still get all the benefits of the XTR proposition. You will not be forced to use an inferior product as an alternative to scrapping the bike. And don't forget that even the inferior e7000 motor is many many times the cost of an XTR mech.

^^this x one million. E7000 replacement for an e8000 is not exceptable. Less nm's and less durable. They shouldve shelved 7000 and made some improvemenys to 8000 and made that the defacto mid range motor and warranty replacement for 8000's an under.
And whats with the corporate bootlicking from some members. We need to adopt the skateboarding/bmx ethos of supporting bike companies owned by real riders, all suits exluded.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

The way I understand the Discontinuation of the E8000

- No more motors will be sold to OEM’s as the EP8 has superseded it.
- E8000 motors will still be available for warranty claims

Happens in many industries when a new model / version of a product is released.

It doesn’t mean it’s obsolete. It’ll still be supported. Just not supplied on new bikes for MY21 and beyond.

 

[Dirtnvert]

The way I understand the Discontinuation of the E8000

- No more motors will be sold to OEM’s as the EP8 has superseded it.
- E8000 motors will still be available for warranty claims

Happens in many industries when a new model / version of a product is released.

It doesn’t mean it’s obsolete. It’ll still be supported. Just not supplied on new bikes for MY21 and beyond.

That makes sense but shimano are less than forthcoming on the subject.
They dumped a boat load of $ in advertising yesterday and not a peep on support or durability. There had to have been atleast 4 shimano yt vids and atlest that many shimanoebike ig posts yesterday not to mention all the youtuber reviews

 

[MrBrownstone]

Watched the videos again... not too thrilled, kind of disappointed - although I happen to be an E-8000 owner who's perfectly happy with it (not wondering if I could upgrade for the small bump in performance) and not so much riding the EP8 hype train.

So far from all the info I've read/seen here and from other reviews/previews, there's a major failure here - the clunking noise.



WHAT?

The fact that Shimano said they are fully aware of it and said it is a compromise is right. From the videos, it sounds like parts are loose! And saying "well the Bosch makes the same noise" doesn't excuse it - it doesn't matter what flaws other motors have.

yup after 3450 miles of hard riding this year so far, my e8000 has been perfect in all weather and trail conditions. I’ll give ep8 another year...

heck I may even go e7000 if I buy the new Kona remote 130 when available.

 

[MrBrownstone]

If they're discontinuing the E8000 then surely they will have to produce a way to upgrade, if they're keeping "some" for warranty what happens when they run out? If someones E8000 goes pop after that?
I've just got a Decoy and I'm not bothered about changing the motor as it's plenty grin-inducing for me right now but I'm thinking longer term like 18 months down the road, especially as I don't give any of my kit an easy time.

e7000

 

[Pdoz]

The way I understand the Discontinuation of the E8000

- No more motors will be sold to OEM’s as the EP8 has superseded it.
- E8000 motors will still be available for warranty claims

Happens in many industries when a new model / version of a product is released.

It doesn’t mean it’s obsolete. It’ll still be supported. Just not supplied on new bikes for MY21 and beyond.

Rob, correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't yamaha / giant just done a similar thing? The pwx2 quietly replaced the pwx1 in 2020 , if a pre 2019 pwx dies under warranty Giant puts in a 2020 pwx2 AND associated wiring harness. We just haven't yet heard from customers who have killed a pwx outside of warranty and needed to fund this themselves.

Sadly , very few people are likely to be paying to keep > 2 year old emtb's running when the magic smoke escapes outside of warranty, but it'd be really nice to think that was possible.

 

[jooles]

Is the EP8 a "factory sealed unit" or can it be serviced ? I.e. can bearings etc be replaced. This would be the biggest leap in faith.

A far more important factor, IMHO than torque levels software support etc.

I'm coming up to the end of the warranty period on my 8000 and hoping nothing happens to it as sounds like they may run out of 8000 units pretty fast and render my bike a write off if Shim won't sell a stand alone EP8 to keep my trusty Ranger alive. an E7000 would feel very different.

Won't be rushing out to buy a bike with the EP8 motor to replace my 8000. If I want more hill climbing (torque) capability I'll replace the 11-42 with 11-50 rear cassette. STUnlocker is way better than the Shim app with ability to feather motor output in each support level. Even change wheel size. No clatter when coasting. Efficient use of battery if using STU. 300g lighter ? Thats less than my water bottle ;-).

Evolution certainly no revolution.

Jules

 

[raine]

Is the EP8 a "factory sealed unit" or can it be serviced ? I.e. can bearings etc be replaced. This would be the biggest leap in faith.

A far more important factor, IMHO than torque levels software support etc.

I'm coming up to the end of the warranty period on my 8000 and hoping nothing happens to it as sounds like they may run out of 8000 units pretty fast and render my bike a write off if Shim won't sell a stand alone EP8 to keep my trusty Ranger alive. an E7000 would feel very different.

Won't be rushing out to buy a bike with the EP8 motor to replace my 8000. If I want more hill climbing (torque) capability I'll replace the 11-42 with 11-50 rear cassette. STUnlocker is way better than the Shim app with ability to feather motor output in each support level. Even change wheel size. No clatter when coasting. Efficient use of battery if using STU. 300g lighter ? Thats less than my water bottle ;-).

Evolution certainly no revolution.

Jules

Nope, per the article:

As on the E8000, the crank axle bearings are not replaceable. Shimano says these are high grade sealed bearings that doesn’t need replacing. They also talk a bit about anti-tuning and anti-tampering. Any attempts to alter or trick the cut-off speed will be stored in the motor. The dealers will see this flag in their software. If this happens, the warranty will be void and they cannot service the motor.

 

[jooles]

mmmmm.....bearings being a moving part are normally designed to be replaced as per BB, Frame set, car wheels, bushings etc.

You can pull a Banfang motor apart mind.

Onward and upward.

 

[Randy]

Sounds like real progress to me. E8000 power is fine already so a little more is ace, good that the motor now decouples (personally I would put up with a little noise as a trade off) and good to that the weight is down and efficiency is up and that the software is improved. No way I want one until somebody has hacked it though (crossed fingers). Only other issue I have is with the big move to internal batteries... the Shimano internal 504Wh reverses the weight saving made on the motor so would be saving nothing on changing up. External is so easy too, and the packs are lighter to have in your backpack... currently running 2 X 504Wh and it makes so much sense, even going up to the new 630Wh I think would be a bad move as they have or worse Wh/Kg ratio. Lets see what the new Vitus looks like - hoping its the same geometry, same external pack, new motor and better cable routing.

 

[Mteam]

Anyone know why the internal batteries are heavier than an external one of the same size? this is not just limited to shimano, all the manufacturers internal batteries are heavier than the external. You'd have thought the internal one could be lighter as its protected by the bike frame ,so doesnt need as much protection itself.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I’m testing 8 new EP8 Bikes over the next 5 days. Anything you would like to know let me known

I’ll be sure to be testing the clattering noise on all of them.

 

[baldiebenty]

e7000

Sorry, not a like for like replacement. Shimanos on website states the difference that the E8000 is suitable for "mountainous terrain" and "extreme MTB riding" whereas the E7000 is "Hilly terrain" and "off-road thrills"