SZZS specific CEF50-main thread (initial builds and troubleshooting related only)

[Yozha]

With an axle spacing of 155 mm, a mud gap of 12 mm remains between wheel and frame (all measurements on M size frame)

 

[patdam]

With the frame assembled without shock, the axle spacing is 148,5 mm. The 29` wheel does not touch the frame at this. Frame size M.

Am I correct in understanding that a 55mm stroke on a 210mm shock is acceptable?

True. if i had this value on mine i could used 55 mm travel. But i had not this possibility and i use 53mm

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I don't think the problem so far has been with the tyres on the frame, but with the joints in the rear triangle, which at some point are actuated further than they should be. At some point they could collide / rub against each other and break.
I think @TCFlowClyde had some minor problems with this?

Nope. Was a spurious result of my initial main pivot bolt being short by 7 mm. SZZS sent me the wrong size. That's been well documented. The mating bolt sheered off mid ride early on and the linkage joints saw some friction wear from that. I was sent the correct size (or rather had a custom Ti bolt made) and the problem disappeared. I repainted the areas to test for any further chaffing and there's been none since then...over a year now. I've recounted the story several times now so let's more forward.

Believe what you want. But why would I promote the 55 mm stroke if there were initial and later issues? Ultimately, for those interested longer travel with this frame, try the bigger stroke if you want. If not, don't.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I've decided to keep 50 mm for now. In winter, I will think whether I need to increase the stroke. But overall, there is potential.
The only thing is the link needs to be filed (I peeled the paint off a bit)

View attachment 143932

I just had the thinner black primer paint initially. And then just recoated it with another black primer layer and clear coatings. So, probably not as thick at the joints at the OEM paint job from ZSSZ. So yeah it's tight tolerances but no problems: paint chipping, chaffing, marring or any sign of friction.

I do have a big negative air can (MegNeg 55 mm with no reducers) that prevents bottom out. And my frame was among the first batch (including the warranty frame when my bottom tube was cracked at the motor mount out the box in May '23 due to improper packaging). The rocker arm has been the original.

Someone suggested to just shave down the rocker arm/seatstay joint area but I haven't had to do that fortunately. I was just going to use reducers originally if it did make contact. I used a sheet of paper placed in the joint and released the shock completely if air (removed the valve core) and let compress completely on the ground and found no denting of the paper. So, I just went for it. So far so good!

 

[Yozha]

I just had the thinner black primer paint initially. And then just recoated it with another black primer layer and clear coatings. So, probably not as thick at the joints at the OEM paint job from ZSSZ. So yeah it's tight tolerances but no problems: paint chipping, chaffing, marring or any sign of friction.

I do have a big negative air can (MegNeg 55 mm with no reducers) that prevents bottom out. And my frame was among the first batch (including the warranty frame when my bottom tube was cracked at the motor mount out the box in May '23 due to improper packaging). The rocker arm has been the original.

Someone suggested to just shave down the rocker arm/seatstay joint area but I haven't had to do that fortunately. I was just going to use reducers originally if it did make contact. I used a sheet of paper placed in the joint and released the shock completely if air (removed the valve core) and let compress completely on the ground and found no denting of the paper. So, I just went for it. So far so good!

Great. I will use your experience and will most likely switch to a 55mm stroke at the end of the season. But now I am too eager to ride))) Tomorrow I will get a shock absorber with 50 mm travel and will study the characteristics of my red rocket!

 

[Yozha]

And I'm continuing with the minor upgrades.
Made up the lower frame hinge protection.
To make it you need:
1. A bolt with a protruding header to hold the strip. (from the link below M3 50pcs, 10mm)
https://sl.aliexpress.ru/p?key=jqBDsEE
2. Part from the plastic fender (at the link below)
https://sl.aliexpress.ru/p?key=KGBDsb5
3. Strips

I changed the lower bolt on the charging connector mount (marked with an arrow in the photo).
I burned two holes in the fender to the size of the frame by heating the screw on the fire.
Using two coupled ties (mine were not very long), I tightened the fender to the frame, covering the lower hinge from dirt.

P.s.:
I had a bolt for 8mm, but I think it is better to take a 10 or 12, then you can put a washer under it and better secure the strips.
But even what I did works in general))))
.

 

[patdam]

And I'm continuing with the minor upgrades.
Made up the lower frame hinge protection.
To make it you need:
1. A bolt with a protruding header to hold the strip. (from the link below M3 50pcs, 10mm)
https://sl.aliexpress.ru/p?key=jqBDsEE
2. Part from the plastic fender (at the link below)
https://sl.aliexpress.ru/p?key=KGBDsb5
3. Strips

I changed the lower bolt on the charging connector mount (marked with an arrow in the photo).
I burned two holes in the fender to the size of the frame by heating the screw on the fire.
Using two coupled ties (mine were not very long), I tightened the fender to the frame, covering the lower hinge from dirt.

P.s.:
I had a bolt for 8mm, but I think it is better to take a 10 or 12, then you can put a washer under it and better secure the strips.
But even what I did works in general))))
.

View attachment 144056

i recommend that you interface self-adhesive film between swing arm and your fender. to protect paint from wear.

My solution

 

[patdam]

 

[Yozha]

View attachment 144057

Good job!

Did I understand correctly that your engine is open on the sides? You're not afraid of dirt?

 

[Yozha]

Did any of the participants buy this item?
Looks promising!

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[patdam]

Good job!

i'm live in south. I don't ride on mud . I prefer, better cooling

 

[voigtkampff]

Hey, I've seen this question asked before but I can't find any answers: has anyone tried installing SRAM T-Type (Transmission) drivetrain on CEF50? Did you have any issues with installation, tuning?

I'm not really happy with the way my cable-actuated Shimano HG+ drivetrain behaves, it seems like good quality shifting is a fragile state, susceptible to all kinds of factors like temperature, contamination etc. Going electronic seems like a solution. For a long time I was thinking I will miss ability to upshift with index finger on rapidfire shifters, but I don't really remember when was the last time I did that, as my index fingers are on the brake levers almost 100% of the time.

So my biggest concern before going this route is which system to choose. To my knowledge these are the available options:

• SRAM AXS "Upgrade Kit" which mounts to the ordinary derailleur hanger - probably the safest route and it might seem also the cheapest because there's lots of "almost new" used kits on the market after introduction of T-Type
• SRAM T-Type Transmission which requires replacing the UDH, mounting directly to the frame. Possibly offering the highest shifting quality, but all parts seem to be very expensive. As far as I understand the thru axle threads directly into the derailleur, so this is crucial that the thread pitch must be the same. To my understanding our OEM thru axle uses the same pitch (1mm) as T-Type derailleurs, right?
• Shimano Di2 - not really a viable option for me because it's not wireless. I don't want to go through all the hassle of routing the cables again.
• Wheeltop EDS OX - Chinese system resembling AXS. This would be attractive option, if not the price point, which seems like more expensive than used, good quality SRAM GX AXS set. The reviews are good and there are some interesting killer features like fine tuning to adjust to virtually any available cassette on the market. I like this a lot, would be great for experimentation with some exotic cassettes like Chinese 9-52t with absurd range, but the price (including customs, VAT) is simply prohibitive, esp. when I think about the usual "user is a beta tester" manufacturer's attitude and the communication issues when sh*t hits the fan and you need something fixed.
• L-Twoo eTX - another Chinese system, not officially released yet but I have some unofficial info it will be put into production soon. Following L-Twoo eRX and eGR systems I don't expect to be cheap. The features are unknown and probably the initial versions will have some issues, but well, I can test it if they send it to me for free Other than that, all the same issues as Wheeltop only amplified because it's a new product.

So, knowing all the above, the crucial question is: is T-Type transmission such a big improvement over the old AXS to justify the crazy price and locking myself in SRAM's pocket? Do you have any experience in that area, esp. applicable to our CEF50?

 

[calvintys]

Hey, I've seen this question asked before but I can't find any answers: has anyone tried installing SRAM T-Type (Transmission) drivetrain on CEF50? Did you have any issues with installation, tuning?

I'm not really happy with the way my cable-actuated Shimano HG+ drivetrain behaves, it seems like good quality shifting is a fragile state, susceptible to all kinds of factors like temperature, contamination etc. Going electronic seems like a solution. For a long time I was thinking I will miss ability to upshift with index finger on rapidfire shifters, but I don't really remember when was the last time I did that, as my index fingers are on the brake levers almost 100% of the time.

So my biggest concern before going this route is which system to choose. To my knowledge these are the available options:

• SRAM AXS "Upgrade Kit" which mounts to the ordinary derailleur hanger - probably the safest route and it might seem also the cheapest because there's lots of "almost new" used kits on the market after introduction of T-Type
• SRAM T-Type Transmission which requires replacing the UDH, mounting directly to the frame. Possibly offering the highest shifting quality, but all parts seem to be very expensive. As far as I understand the thru axle threads directly into the derailleur, so this is crucial that the thread pitch must be the same. To my understanding our OEM thru axle uses the same pitch (1mm) as T-Type derailleurs, right?
• Shimano Di2 - not really a viable option for me because it's not wireless. I don't want to go through all the hassle of routing the cables again.
• Wheeltop EDS OX - Chinese system resembling AXS. This would be attractive option, if not the price point, which seems like more expensive than used, good quality SRAM GX AXS set. The reviews are good and there are some interesting killer features like fine tuning to adjust to virtually any available cassette on the market. I like this a lot, would be great for experimentation with some exotic cassettes like Chinese 9-52t with absurd range, but the price (including customs, VAT) is simply prohibitive, esp. when I think about the usual "user is a beta tester" manufacturer's attitude and the communication issues when sh*t hits the fan and you need something fixed.
• L-Twoo eTX - another Chinese system, not officially released yet but I have some unofficial info it will be put into production soon. Following L-Twoo eRX and eGR systems I don't expect to be cheap. The features are unknown and probably the initial versions will have some issues, but well, I can test it if they send it to me for free Other than that, all the same issues as Wheeltop only amplified because it's a new product.

So, knowing all the above, the crucial question is: is T-Type transmission such a big improvement over the old AXS to justify the crazy price and locking myself in SRAM's pocket? Do you have any experience in that area, esp. applicable to our CEF50?

Cassettes on ebike has a shorter life span and the price for t type Cassettes is expensive. This is the main reason I stick with old Axs. My giga it's using T type axs and it has a huge improvement on shifting during heavy load.

 

[Yozha]

Joining in on the drivetrain question. Has anyone had experience of using 12 speed Shimano. How good is the shifting performance on it?

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Hey, I've seen this question asked before but I can't find any answers: has anyone tried installing SRAM T-Type (Transmission) drivetrain on CEF50? Did you have any issues with installation, tuning?

I'm not really happy with the way my cable-actuated Shimano HG+ drivetrain behaves, it seems like good quality shifting is a fragile state, susceptible to all kinds of factors like temperature, contamination etc. Going electronic seems like a solution. For a long time I was thinking I will miss ability to upshift with index finger on rapidfire shifters, but I don't really remember when was the last time I did that, as my index fingers are on the brake levers almost 100% of the time.

So my biggest concern before going this route is which system to choose. To my knowledge these are the available options:

• SRAM AXS "Upgrade Kit" which mounts to the ordinary derailleur hanger - probably the safest route and it might seem also the cheapest because there's lots of "almost new" used kits on the market after introduction of T-Type
• SRAM T-Type Transmission which requires replacing the UDH, mounting directly to the frame. Possibly offering the highest shifting quality, but all parts seem to be very expensive. As far as I understand the thru axle threads directly into the derailleur, so this is crucial that the thread pitch must be the same. To my understanding our OEM thru axle uses the same pitch (1mm) as T-Type derailleurs, right?
• Shimano Di2 - not really a viable option for me because it's not wireless. I don't want to go through all the hassle of routing the cables again.
• Wheeltop EDS OX - Chinese system resembling AXS. This would be attractive option, if not the price point, which seems like more expensive than used, good quality SRAM GX AXS set. The reviews are good and there are some interesting killer features like fine tuning to adjust to virtually any available cassette on the market. I like this a lot, would be great for experimentation with some exotic cassettes like Chinese 9-52t with absurd range, but the price (including customs, VAT) is simply prohibitive, esp. when I think about the usual "user is a beta tester" manufacturer's attitude and the communication issues when sh*t hits the fan and you need something fixed.
• L-Twoo eTX - another Chinese system, not officially released yet but I have some unofficial info it will be put into production soon. Following L-Twoo eRX and eGR systems I don't expect to be cheap. The features are unknown and probably the initial versions will have some issues, but well, I can test it if they send it to me for free Other than that, all the same issues as Wheeltop only amplified because it's a new product.

So, knowing all the above, the crucial question is: is T-Type transmission such a big improvement over the old AXS to justify the crazy price and locking myself in SRAM's pocket? Do you have any experience in that area, esp. applicable to our CEF50?

I have old AXS on it. I did the upgrade kit a few years back and got a 20% discount on it, so I went for it. It's hardy and I like the electronic shifting. Overall,. It's a little more precise, longer over time due to no cable stretch than on my XT setup on my other rig.

If the Type-T costs half less than I'd be more likely to upgrade due to lack of bendable hanger. I'm on number 2 hanger since last year (also better shifting under load as others have said).

I'd figure Old AXS was a 25-30% improvement.

I've hesitated on the T-type due to cost-benefit tradeoff not being good enough for.my meager budget. I'm hearing marginal improvements over old AXS 2 years later after the initial launch. One trusted shop guy said it was maybe a 15-20% upgrade higher over the old. Just my personal take.

 

[voigtkampff]

Cassettes on ebike has a shorter life span and the price for t type Cassettes is expensive. This is the main reason I stick with old Axs. My giga it's using T type axs and it has a huge improvement on shifting during heavy load.

I like experimenting and I'm curious to try out the 9-50t cassettes and "mullet drivetrain" setups like SRAM RD/Shimano cassette (because have lots of Shimano cassettes and they are cheap). I guess not using dedicated SRAM cassette will likely wipe out many T-Type benefits?

 

[voigtkampff]

Joining in on the drivetrain question. Has anyone had experience of using 12 speed Shimano. How good is the shifting performance on it?

I do use 12 speed Shimano and as stated above, it takes time to setup and is fragile, ie. once tuned right, will detune fast. The region where downshifting and upshifting is perfect and there's no noticeable chain rubbing on bigger cogs is very narrow. I like having my drivetrain operating perfectly and quietly so this is driving me crazy.

I definitely feel like I don't really need 12 speeds (9-10 would be a sweetspot) but OTOH I appreciate 10t smallest cog (9t would be even better). Unfortunately there are no 9-10 speed cassettes with MS/XD driver available, so here we are...

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I do use 12 speed Shimano and as stated above, it takes time to setup and is fragile, ie. once tuned right, will detune fast. The region where downshifting and upshifting is perfect and there's no noticeable chain rubbing on bigger cogs is very narrow. I like having my drivetrain operating perfectly and quietly so this is driving me crazy.

I definitely feel like I don't really need 12 speeds (9-10 would be a sweetspot) but OTOH I appreciate 10t smallest cog (9t would be even better). Unfortunately there are no 9-10 speed cassettes with MS/XD driver available, so here we are...

Yup, I use the Sram EX-8 spd. (cable actuated) On my Bafang M620-160Nm fat bike. The thicker chain is definitely more confidence inspiring. 12 spd chains with the high 160Nm torque is very fragile and snap much faster.

 

[Yozha]

I do use 12 speed Shimano and as stated above, it takes time to setup and is fragile, ie. once tuned right, will detune fast. The region where downshifting and upshifting is perfect and there's no noticeable chain rubbing on bigger cogs is very narrow. I like having my drivetrain operating perfectly and quietly so this is driving me crazy.

I definitely feel like I don't really need 12 speeds (9-10 would be a sweetspot) but OTOH I appreciate 10t smallest cog (9t would be even better). Unfortunately there are no 9-10 speed cassettes with MS/XD driver available, so here we are...

Now I'm confused - I did the install on a 12 speed Shimano drivetrain..... I used an 11 speed on my old bike and everything was fine.

 

[patdam]

Nothing experience on T-type (not needs), i can't said something on it. Just that i find the safety principal of the replacable derailleur hanger, better than fix it directly on frame.

I have purchased the wheeltop EDS, by curiosity (not necessary) and because it can functioning in 11S (needed, i don't want to use 12S). Good functioning, nothing to critic. But not better than cable driving formy opinion. To safety and avoid electrical problem when i ride alone on moutain, i have removed it to install only on the bike used near the house.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Now I'm confused - I did the install on a 12 speed Shimano drivetrain..... I used an 11 speed on my old bike and everything was fine.

I run a 12 spd 11-50T XT drivetrain. It works fine on my Bafang M600-120Nm rig.

I use the Sram XX chain on both AXS and XT with no breakage.

Clarification; Also, I personally think a 8-10 spd works a little better...less gearing and thicker chain to handle an E-mtb's higher torque. However, the 12 spd works but is just a bit more delicate IMHO.

 

[Yozha]

I received two protective covers for the engine. They look good, the geometry is much better than the Chinese one. The durability seems to be fully comparable to the cover that was on my electric Cube. All in all, I'm happy with it. Total production cost 100USD. Production time is about 2 weeks.

 

[Yozha]

The only thing is that I didn't look at the model beforehand, it seems to me that you could have made the cover without holes.

 

[Yozha]

The model turned out to be very accurate - the new lid fit perfectly!

 

[PaulH]

Great guards Yozha, did you get them from rockstopmtb in the UK?

 

[Yozha]

Great guards Yozha, did you get them from rockstopmtb in the UK?

No, I ordered production from the local company (they are specialists in 3D printing).I thought about rockstopmtb as an additional protection, but for now I decided that I will make reinforcement from KYDEX (ordered a red plate) - it's cheap and matches the color)))
p.s.:
I am in Almaty (Kazakhstan).

 

[TCFlowClyde]

The model turned out to be very accurate - the new lid fit perfectly!

View attachment 144345 View attachment 144346 View attachment 144347 View attachment 144348

The model turned out to be very accurate - the new lid fit perfectly!

View attachment 144345 View attachment 144346 View attachment 144347 View attachment 144348

They look good!

 

[Yozha]

I can order and send these covers to Europe. But the price of delivery is not small - to Germany is about 50USD(((((

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I can order and send these covers to Europe. But the price of delivery is not small - to Germany is about 50USD(((((

That's not too bad. But keep field testing it out.

Can you hit it with a rubber mallet (soft and medium intensity) while mounted on your frame?

And before mounting the guard then twist it with your opposite hands back and forth to test torsional strength.

My SZZS guard broke when I tried these methods.

However, with my carbon overlay workaround, I was able to use these methods to get basic strength predictability....then just riding over time to verify its rigor.

 

[saffa]

Hi everyone, a little off the topic, has anyone used a fox float X2 on there CEF50? Any issues perhaps?