Strive:ON problems

[Mikerb]

From the posts a bove I assume the bike is fitted with the Bosch rail system.............connector at the top of the downtube and a latch type lever at the bottom. If so that is the same system as used in my bike...Whyte E160 RSX and neither myself or anyone else with that bike...that I know of.........has experienced similar problems. So I wonder what the difference in implementation is?
For the latch at the bottom of the battery to break it must have been either not properly closed in the first place or the battery was loose and therefore able to attach the latch.
It sounds to me like the root cause of the problem is not the latch but rather that way in which the connector at the top of the battery is secured. ( That assumes it is not downtube itself flexing to enable battery movement!!)

 

[Bjonok]

Hey guys! I'm really puzzled here. My Strive:On is finally ready after unboxing and installing Invisiframe (that took its time) BUT when I try to pump up the Fox Float X2 p.-shock i get it up to 200psi, but when I sit on the bike the shock runs through most of its travel like as if there was little air in it.
Also I feel that when I attach the pump the pump head goes on far beond the threaded insert, and I have to thread it back and forth to find the spot where the shock takes in air. And when I remove the pump a bit of air escapes from the removal of the valve. I just can't for the life of me get air into the shock. Can't hear anything leaking exept for this. No oil leak either.

I've tried two different pumps now, and when I get to 200psi it doesn't matter if I keep pumping. The needle stays and slowly releases air in the beginning and then stops just under 200psi.

I've had tons of spring-shocks and this is my first air-shock, so this could be me not knowing what I'm doing.
PS: I have NOT exeeded 300psi.

Has anyone experienced anything like this?

 

[Mikerb]

You need to cycle the shock every 20 to 30 PSI in order to equalise it. Suggest you remove all air and start a gain but this time compressing the shock about 25% of its travel every 30 PSI.

 

[Bjonok]

You need to cycle the shock every 20 to 30 PSI in order to equalise it. Suggest you remove all air and start a gain but this time compressing the shock about 25% of its travel every 30 PSI.

Brilliant! Thank you so much for your reply Mikerb

 

[CrispyDesigns]

Brilliant! Thank you so much for your reply Mikerb

I've found that it's the first 100 or so PSI that's the most important to cycle the shock for. Compress it around 5 times each 30psi. As @Mikerb says, it needs to be done to let the shock equalise for it to work correctly

 

[wenna]

Anyone had the battery latch crack a 2nd time?

 

[hubertsk]

Anyone had the battery latch crack a 2nd time?

I’m having second round of problems now.

The bike 1st time was fixed in Canyon Service Center @ 347km mileage. Today the battery started disconnecting again @ 557kms on the clock.

I checked the battery latch and it’s cracked! It took it only 200kms to break
I have not removed the battery since I got the bike back from Canyon to rule out human error. Nevertheless the latch is cracked again. Not I’m pretty sure it’s a design flaw. Will be contacting Canyon first thing in the morning.

 

[501AM]

That really sucks, maybe try to contact Bosch also and see what they say? I guess it's a Bosch OEM part? Anyone know if you can buy them as spare? Luckily mine has yet not broken, but I guess the day may come.

 

[Redders473]

Them straps are like 20 quid to replace and just bolt on with 2 screws

 

[Mikerb]

That really sucks, maybe try to contact Bosch also and see what they say? I guess it's a Bosch OEM part? Anyone know if you can buy them as spare? Luckily mine has yet not broken, but I guess the day may come.

.....as I commented some time a go in this thread, the new Whyte E160 etc also use the same Bosch battery rail and latch system and I have seen no reports of any problems with it, so the problem is not with the latch ( albeit it of course needs replacing if broken) but with some other aspect of how the battery is secured in the stance. One key difference I note from the pics above is that the bottom of the battery+ latch on the Whyte is further up the downtube than on the Canyon.....and the Whyte is ally not carbon. I would suggest that some part of the way in which the Bosch rail is secured is allowing flex/movement and the problem will not be resolved until someone works out where that movement is.

 

[hubertsk]

I've already replaced the latch, and yes, it's a 20 EUR part, so not that bad.
The real issue here is that I really don't want to replace it every 200 kilometers.

Today I took a closer look at the bike and why the latch is failing, and it's actually clear that the whole weight of the battery is sitting on this single latch.

The latch itself is constructed in such a way that those little tabs are all that support the weight of the battery.
When pressed against the metal part, those little tabs are pushed out and eventually break.

You can see the mechanics of that in the video below. In the video, those little plastic tabs are already broken and have fallen out, but you can see the movement of the mechanism when force is applied.

 

[dlatch]

Not had this problem with mine so far but very easy to mis align the battery when installing. Still amazed we are having the same growing pain issues and no one has learned to design a system where the battery is bolted in and the power connector is just that not a mounting point 🫣

 

[hubertsk]

Well, in this case, it was definitely not misaligned during installation. It was installed in the Canyon Service Center, and I checked the connector when I got the bike back. There were no cracks or any problems—a spotless installation. I've never removed the battery since, and I just rode it on the local trails. At 200 km since the first repair, the latch was again broken.

 

[wenna]

Not had this problem with mine so far but very easy to mis align the battery when installing. Still amazed we are having the same growing pain issues and no one has learned to design a system where the battery is bolted in and the power connector is just that not a mounting point 🫣

The Spectral ON with the Shimano system is like this, with the battery bolted on and a "cabled" power connector. Seems like a way better solution.

I get it the Strive ON is a "race" bike and a tool-less battery mount kind of makes sense, but I wonder if it´s really needed. They race the Orbea wild as well on which you have to drop the motor to access the battery.

I had the Strive ON as my first choice soon to be e-bike, but now I´m starting to second guess it. Having the mostly plastic latch mechanism take the whole weight of the battery seems like really bad engineering and they should have been able to see this coming.

 

[el.guillyt]

The way I see this issue is that the latch is Bosch part, and Canyon will probably ignore/don't do anything to solve, in my opinion, at least they (either Bosch or Canyon) should come up with a fixture to hold it firmly with proper hardware for the non-racers, and keep the latch as a race option, I don't want to be replacing latching mechanisms regularly

 

[wenna]

The latch mechanism is made to be able to be able to take a lock with a key.

I wonder if using the lock with a locking "deadbolt" would make it stronger with the deadbolt taking the weight.

 

[el.guillyt]

The latch mechanism is made to be able to be able to take a lock with a key.

I wonder if using the lock with a locking "deadbolt" would make it stronger with the deadbolt taking the weight.

View attachment 122613

It seems to me like the issue still the same, the tabs holding the battery seem to be the same as the non-key version, at least looks like to me, considering I'm on the phone, not in a big screen

 

[FrostyMugKiller]

I’m still waiting for canyon to reply, it’s over a week without any message.
In the meantime I investigated battery connector inside the frame and I see it has some play. Currently that’s my primary suspect for engine cut-offs and rattle.

Does anyone know how that connector looks like, how it’s mounted and if there is any adjustment there.
@Rob Rides EMTB , you built your bike yourself, do you have any photos of that connector by any chance?

View attachment 119312

This may have been discussed or already figured out. But I was having a similar issue with my Mondraker with the bosch system. and the grey foam pad that sits around the terminal in the picture above was to thick and not letting the battery seat fully on the electrical terminal. Switched to a thinner pad and everything has been perfect since.

 

[hubertsk]

I just received the latch with the Abus lock, and it doesn't seem to be much stronger than the stock Bosch latch.
The lock does not add any additional support, in my opinion.

I was hoping some part of the weight would be resting on the lock itself, as it's placed centrally in the mechanism, but unfortunately, there is still a gap so that the whole weight of the battery is still resting on the little tabs that are getting broken.

Now I'm testing a different solution
I've added a little plastic spacer that would take some weight off the little tabs and hopefully make the whole thing stronger.
Below are some photos of the spacer with an already broken latch that I used for a test fit.
The spacer is made out of plastic (the pink part), and it's around 2.9mm thick. It allows the latch to close easily, and it provides additional support for the mechanism so that the weight of the battery is not sitting anymore on the plastic tabs.

Basically, the idea is to take the weight off the weak part (fragile plastic tabs) and spread it over the stronger part of the mechanism.

I will be testing this for the next few weeks and will report back.
In the meantime, maybe that would be helpful for someone who's already experiencing the same issues.
Cheers!

 

[el.guillyt]

I just received the latch with the Abus lock, and it doesn't seem to be much stronger than the stock Bosch latch.
The lock does not add any additional support, in my opinion.

I was hoping some part of the weight would be resting on the lock itself, as it's placed centrally in the mechanism, but unfortunately, there is still a gap so that the whole weight of the battery is still resting on the little tabs that are getting broken.

View attachment 122717

View attachment 122718



Now I'm testing a different solution
I've added a little plastic spacer that would take some weight off the little tabs and hopefully make the whole thing stronger.
Below are some photos of the spacer with an already broken latch that I used for a test fit.
The spacer is made out of plastic (the pink part), and it's around 2.9mm thick. It allows the latch to close easily, and it provides additional support for the mechanism so that the weight of the battery is not sitting anymore on the plastic tabs.

Basically, the idea is to take the weight off the weak part (fragile plastic tabs) and spread it over the stronger part of the mechanism.

View attachment 122719

View attachment 122720

I will be testing this for the next few weeks and will report back.
In the meantime, maybe that would be helpful for someone who's already experiencing the same issues.
Cheers!

Thanks for the heads up, will follow your experience, I did tried something similar when mine broke, with some thick foam, but did not work as intended, the batt is too heavy and it was compressing the foam, but my idea was similar to yours, so I'm interested on how it goes with your solution

 

[Mikerb]

As I mentioned a bove the Whyte E160 uses the Bosch rail and latch system and I am bemused why it should be breaking the latch on the Strive but there have been no reports of any similar issues on the Whyte ( I have had E160RSX for over a year and no issues). I believe it must have something to do with the way the rail system is installed in the Strive so hoping it may help to give some clues here are a couple of pictures of the battery and latch in position on my bike. You will note that on mine the latch hooks directly into the black painted Bosch rail and there is no raw ally section as in the pics of the Strive installation above (pic 2). The Bosch rail on mine looks to have 2 bolts securing it to the frame ( pic 1 ) just a little a bove where the latch secures. So which one is a standard Bosch rail implementation? Since that ally piece on the Strive is not an integral part of the rail that the battery slides into I wonder if Canyon have modified or supplemented the Bosch rail system with that ally section at the bottom??

 

[Mikerb]

For enclosed downtubes the Bosch rail system option is called "axial" or vertikal in German I believe. It is black painted steel and the pic below shows it is fixed in the downtube with 2 closely positioned bolts at the top and bottom. On my bike those bolts are clearly visible on the downtube. The rail is specified as the one for 750w/h batteries but it looks like it actually has 3 positions for the battery connector....presumably 750, 625 and 500.
I am guessing that the battery connector complete with wired connections, is fixed to the rail before the rail is inserted. On my bike all those cables are then fed into clips on the rail. The bottom 2 bolts would be easy to align and then the top bolts would also align.
So .....the point of showing this.....it should be relatively easy to remove the rail complete with battery connector at the top for inspection.
Ps.......prior to bikes using the Bosch Smart system Whyte located the battery connector at the bottom of the battery but it did not use the Bosch rail. It was reliable but made battery removal and install awkward.

 

[hubertsk]

UPDATE: It's actually a cable rail, not a Bosch mounting rail, that sits in the upper part of the downtube.

In the Strive:ON Canyon decided to put this rail on the upper side of the downtube, and it seems that the rail itself is not doing anything other than covering the cables.

The battery connector and the latch for securing the battery are both mounted on the bottom part of the downtube, directly to the carbon frame. They're not connected to the Bosch rail cable rail.
As a result, the battery weight is not resting on the rail but on the battery latch and the connector.

*Sorry for my poor drawing skills, hopefully, you can see what's happening.

 

[Markwright1983]

In the Strive:ON Canyon decided to put this rail on the upper side of the downtube, and it seems that the rail itself is not doing anything other than covering the cables.

The battery connector and the latch for securing the battery are both mounted on the bottom part of the downtube, directly to the carbon frame. They're not connected to the Bosch rail.
As a result, the battery weight is not resting on the rail but on the battery latch and the connector.

*Sorry for my poor drawing skills, hopefully, you can see what's going on.

View attachment 122798

That makes perfect sense. It seems that other manufacturers have the battery ‘resting’ on the rail which makes perfect sense for an almost 5kg component, whereas Canyon have chosen to have the battery directly on the downtube and secured either end by the connector block and latch. In the case of the Canyon, is the rail actually serving any design purpose at all?

Note - my Strive:On is yet to be delivered so I can’t check my own bike.

 

[hubertsk]

In the case of the Canyon, is the rail actually serving any design purpose at all?

I'm honestly not sure, it looks like it's just there to secure the cables in the downtube.
The cables are running from the motor, under the rail, up to the battery connector and the controller.

Now when I look at it, I'm not even sure if that is a Bosch rail or just a cable rail.
(The bike is obviously upside down, I rotated the photo to show how it's placed in the normal riding position).
The wire rail is on the top; - not sure if that's the Bosch rail, or something else.
The connector is mounted directly to the lower part of the downtube, the same as the battery fastening latch.

Here is the close-up of the connector itself:

PS. Sorry for my filthy downtube, I didn't have time to clean it, and this thing is ridden a lot

 

[wenna]

The connector is mounted directly to the lower part of the downtube, the same as the battery fastening latch.

That seems really strange. Wonder why they decided against using the rail.

 

[Mikerb]

well done .....you are right...that is not the Bosch rail system it is just a cable holder.

I am not sure I agree with you a bout the cause of your problems however. The issue looks to be similar to the issue that plagued Trek Rail models....specifically the battery is not secured well enough to prevent it moving. In fact I can see nothing in your photos to keep the battery secure other than the cradle/ latch bracket at the bottom and the a ctual battery connector at the top. If the battery has the a bility to rattle a bout it will destroy both the latch and the battery connector over time. So the solution as far as I can see is to find a way of securing the battery along its length. With the Trek Rail, owners resorted to inserting various types of packing material in the downtube and a pad on top of the battery connector to take up any play. Your planned mod to the latch may help take out some top to bottom play but it will not prevent any lateral movement of the battery so I think both aspects need to be addressed.

 

[Mikerb]

That seems really strange. Wonder why they decided against using the rail.

given how far the latch holder ally component protudes beyond the bottom of the downtube, maybe the downtube is not long enough to use the Bosch Rail..........or they decided against the extra weight it involves? Poor decision if so!

 

[Markwright1983]

So from what I can see, they have ‘sandwiched’ a Bosch battery (and latch) between a Bosch terminal / connector block and a Canyon mount

I’m not an engineer, but I would imagine that any flex in the downtube would cause the distance between the two connecting points to expand and contract and that may lead to the intermittent power issues which some have experienced. Had there been an independent rail for the battery (and connecting points) then this may improve the situation.

There seems to be ample space around the battery and terminal point, I wonder if the Canyon mount could be removed and the Bosch rail installed instead?

 

[Mikerb]

So from what I can see, they have ‘sandwiched’ a Bosch battery (and latch) between a Bosch terminal / connector block and a Canyon mount

View attachment 122819

I’m not an engineer, but I would imagine that any flex in the downtube would cause the distance between the two connecting points to expand and contract and that may lead to the intermittent power issues which some have experienced. Had there been an independent rail for the battery (and connecting points) then this may improve the situation.

There seems to be ample space around the battery and terminal point, I wonder if the Canyon mount could be removed and the Bosch rail installed instead?

another observation is that the latch piece is ally whereas the Bosch rail is steel. The slot provided on the ally section for the latch will wear, and that will enable things to come loose over time. It is a design issue that Canyon need to rectify in my book.