Pole Voima swing arm CRACKED

[Durrti]

This is my right swing arm from my less than 6 month old Voima!! Noticed the arm was beginning to separate in the upper seam and crack at the rear link after my last ride. Pole wants to inspect the arm before they will replace will keep you all updated.

[mod update]

UPDATE!!
Pole has shipped new parts my way!
Parts include:

• Both swingarms and links for both sides preassembled
• All bolts, bolt covers, caps/extractors
• New rear mech hanger
• New rear axle

I’m incredibly thankful for the opportunity to connect with @leo_kokkonen through these forums.
I was initially very concerned by the issue and had some reservations about my Voima. However after seeing the candid responses and honesty, I feel like the integrity of Pole is bar none. I truly think the issue of shipping parts immediately may have been due to the lack of issues the Voima has experienced.
I can honestly say that I love this bike! Still very happy that I bought a Pole, and looking forward to getting on the trails ASAP.
Thanks to all for the posts!
And a big shout out to @Rob Rides EMTB for giving us this community to connect

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Hope you get sorted. Whats the history / build on this bike? Axles? Race Axles? Did you build this yourself or was it a factory build?

 

[cozzy]

So that's why the v2 has got a different swingarm perhaps.

 

[irie]

This is my right swing arm from my less than 6 month old Voima!! Noticed the arm was beginning to separate in the upper seam and crack at the rear link after my last ride. Pole wants to inspect the arm before they will replace will keep you all updated. View attachment 109438 View attachment 109439 View attachment 109440

Are you saying that you have to ship the swingarm from California back to Finland for Pole to inspect before they do anything about it?

 

[Durrti]

Interesting... And hope you get sorted. Whats the history / build on this bike? Axles? Race Axles? Did you build this yourself or was it a factory build?

Frame only build, pretty much exact same as the complete bike from Pole, Zeb 190, Kitsuma Coil, race axels installed beginning of the year. One crash in November, but was just a tip over. No jumps or parks

 

[Durrti]

Are you saying that you have to ship the swingarm from California back to Finland for Pole to inspect before they do anything about it?

Correct!! I may be without a bike for a few weeks

 

[muzzman1]

As another recent Voima owner, I hope they make this right quickly, it is ridiculous that they are not cross shipping new arms to you.
keep us posted.
this is not a good look for their customer service.

 

[RustyIron]

Neither the failure of the swingarm nor the failure of the customer service inspires confidence.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Pole's have a 100% failure rate that I've witnessed here locally (both broke, catastrophically)..

I think it's pretty obvious that even over- built, machined & glued halves is not a good production method.

 

[cozzy]

Would be great if the company owner could step in and provide some information and reassurance.
We all know stuff goes wrong, but it's how it's dealt with that really makes the difference.
@leo_kokkonen

 

[Bomble]

Pole's have a 100% failure rate that I've witnessed here locally (both broke, catastrophically)..

I think it's pretty obvious that even over- built, machined & glued halves is not a good production method.

What was it that broke on your bikes?

 

[Zimmerframe]

I think it's pretty obvious that even over- built, machined & glued halves is not a good production method.

Whilst this seems like a fairly catastrophic failure and you can understand the various reasons Pole would want to see it, your statement seems somewhat sweeping when you consider how much in the world is bonded together for use in extreme conditions.

Yes, Pole did have issues early on, it was new, different and when you're pushing the boundaries and trying new things, it won't always work out as you want. But they've changed that process significantly and as far as I'm aware this is the first failure we've seen on any of the new generation Poles.

I say it's sweeping as you will dismiss them just like that when just for a few examples we have an endless history of Lapierre's which snap using conventional construction. Carbon Rail's tearing themselves apart, carbon levo's with fracture lines. Aluminium Giants and Rails with cracks in the frames.

But one failure with a CNC'd bike (despite all the other CNC'd and bonded bike parts you can buy) means it's not a good production method ?

 

[RustyIron]

But one failure with a CNC'd bike... means it's not a good production method ?

It seems like an "odd" production method. Although I've never seen one in person, the machining looks crudely done. Maybe there's a good reason for leaving it rough, but without one, they should have smoothed it out.

 

[Trickz]

Whilst this seems like a fairly catastrophic failure and you can understand the various reasons Pole would want to see it, your statement seems somewhat sweeping when you consider how much in the world is bonded together for use in extreme conditions.

Yes, Pole did have issues early on, it was new, different and when you're pushing the boundaries and trying new things, it won't always work out as you want. But they've changed that process significantly and as far as I'm aware this is the first failure we've seen on any of the new generation Poles.

I say it's sweeping as you will dismiss them just like that when just for a few examples we have an endless history of Lapierre's which snap using conventional construction. Carbon Rail's tearing themselves apart, carbon levo's with fracture lines. Aluminium Giants and Rails with cracks in the frames.

But one failure with a CNC'd bike (despite all the other CNC'd and bonded bike parts you can buy) means it's not a good production method ?

Tbh when I was reading about the manufacturing process they used I thought like wow that’s cool but the bonding bit sounded sketchy..I’m sure though after studying the failures they will master it.

 

[leo_kokkonen]

This is my right swing arm from my less than 6 month old Voima!! Noticed the arm was beginning to separate in the upper seam and crack at the rear link after my last ride. Pole wants to inspect the arm before they will replace will keep you all updated. View attachment 109438 View attachment 109439 View attachment 109440

Hello everyone! It appears that the swingarm failure occurred at the pit designed for lower link clearance. Following the material failure, the bonding separates as the interface begins to bear most of the load. In some instances, even the link bonding may fail due to the uneven distribution of the swingarm load.

We've updated the swingarms on our Vikkelä bikes but haven't addressed this specific area yet. Receiving the broken parts is crucial for identifying the issue's root cause. The 7075-T6 production method sometimes results in quality inconsistencies, which could be the source of the problem.

As a high-end manufacturer, we're committed to providing reliable, top-quality products and ensuring customer satisfaction. Our 5-year warranty reflects this commitment and our goal to become a trusted name in the high-end mountain bike industry.

Our frames undergo rigorous testing, and while we didn't encounter this issue during testing, we recognize that our best-selling Voima model may still offer valuable learning experiences.

We're considering adopting an approach similar to Bosch's system to improve the warranty process. Customers purchase a replacement part, and if the warranty claim is approved after inspection, they receive a refund. This method could expedite the process.

We would appreciate your input on this potential solution, and your trust and satisfaction are paramount to us. Together, we can ensure the continued delivery of exceptional products and customer experiences.

 

[Suns_PSD]

What was it that broke on your bikes?

They weren't mine, both acquaintances. One the rear end folded, it's very first day. Especially tough since he flew to another state with the bike for a riding trip.
The other the frame split after about 6 months of aggressive trail riding.

 

[irie]

We would appreciate your input on this potential solution, and your trust and satisfaction are paramount to us. Together, we can ensure the continued delivery of exceptional products and customer experiences.

The customer should not have to wait until you have identified what the failure is in your manufacturing process, nor should he have to make any up front payment.

You should immediately send the customer a new part so that he can keep riding, and secondly pay shipping costs of the failed part.

That is my input.

 

[Suns_PSD]

It seems like an "odd" production method. Although I've never seen one in person, the machining looks crudely done. Maybe there's a good reason for leaving it rough, but without one, they should have smoothed it out.

It would require many more passes with the tool to machine it smooth. More passes = more money

 

[leo_kokkonen]

It would require many more passes with the tool to machine it smooth. More passes = more money

Smoothing does not make stuff stronger necessarily. If you look at the pit, it's corners are smoothened out. Our quick update will remove that smoothing.

 

[Durrti]

Hi guys. Looks like the swingarm has failed at the pit that makes clearance for the lower link. The bonding starts to separate after the material failure because the interface starts to carry the most load. In some cases even the link bonding fails when the swingarm load starts to be distributed unevenly.

View attachment 109486

Hello everyone! It appears that the swingarm failure occurred at the pit designed for lower link clearance. Following the material failure, the bonding separates as the interface begins to bear most of the load. In some instances, even the link bonding may fail due to the uneven distribution of the swingarm load.

We've updated the swingarms on our Vikkelä bikes but haven't addressed this specific area yet. Receiving the broken parts is crucial for identifying the issue's root cause. The 7075-T6 production method sometimes results in quality inconsistencies, which could be the source of the problem.

As a high-end manufacturer, we're committed to providing reliable, top-quality products and ensuring customer satisfaction. Our 5-year warranty reflects this commitment and our goal to become a trusted name in the high-end mountain bike industry.

Our frames undergo rigorous testing, and while we didn't encounter this issue during testing, we recognize that our best-selling Voima model may still offer valuable learning experiences.

We're considering adopting an approach similar to Bosch's system to improve the warranty process. Customers purchase a replacement part, and if the warranty claim is approved after inspection, they receive a refund. This method could expedite the process.

We would appreciate your input on this potential solution, and your trust and satisfaction are paramount to us. Together, we can ensure the continued delivery of exceptional products and customer experiences.

Thank you for the response!
I appreciate the fact that you and team want to do forensics on broken/failed pieces. It seems that Pole is continually trying to improve and make small changes when you see needed. Failed parts are headed your way now.
My biggest gripe right now is that we aren’t cross shipping parts. My time home to ride is limited, and I will now not be able to ride for potentially 2 or more weeks.
I offered your service to team to charge a deposit on parts, but that was denied. Apparently similar to what Bosch is doing. If you are now willing to do this please contact me ASAP for payment details.
Looking forward to getting on the trails again soon!!

 

[Suns_PSD]

For the record, I think they are gorgeous bikes and I think the geo and suspension design are very good.

 

[muzzman1]

Yes @leo_kokkonen
The thought of taking a deposit as soon as a failure occurs and shipping replacement parts immediately would alleviate irritation on the customers side.
Also, it would be prudent to supply the customer with the updated part whenever possible to reduce the likelihood of the same failure occurring a second time.
We just want to ride and not wait on parts.

 

[leo_kokkonen]

Yes @leo_kokkonen
The thought of taking a deposit as soon as a failure occurs and shipping replacement parts immediately would alleviate irritation on the customers side.
Also, it would be prudent to supply the customer with the updated part whenever possible to reduce the likelihood of the same failure occurring a second time.
We just want to ride and not wait on parts.

I understand that the most convenient solution for customers would be to send a message and receive a replacement. However, businesses must operate in a way that ensures fairness and security for both parties involved. Implementing a deposit system can strike a balance, providing a safe and equitable arrangement for everyone.

One of the advantages of our CNC machining manufacturing process is its flexibility, allowing us to quickly implement changes and ensure all models are up to date. As a result, when we ship out replacement parts, you can be confident that you'll receive a component from our current production line. In this case, an updated part will seamlessly replace the old one, offering the latest advancements and improvements.

 

[yorkshire89]

We're considering adopting an approach similar to Bosch's system to improve the warranty process. Customers purchase a replacement part, and if the warranty claim is approved after inspection, they receive a refund. This method could expedite the process.

I've had 2 Bosch motors fail and they've always posted out the motor to my local service centre and collected the old one at the same time, no payment is made. I've also had displays/controllers break and they've just sent out a replacement without having to send them the old one for inspection, but maybe things have changed.

Failures are going to happen but if this was my bike I'd be expecting a replacement to be in the post while I get the old one removed and packed up to return.

 

[Bndit]

I've had 2 Bosch motors fail and they've always posted out the motor to my local service centre and collected the old one at the same time, no payment is made. I've also had displays/controllers break and they've just sent out a replacement without having to send them the old one for inspection, but maybe things have changed.

Failures are going to happen but if this was my bike I'd be expecting a replacement to be in the post while I get the old one removed and packed up to return.

Yes, things have changed. Now it takes for weeks to get new motor from Bosch.

 

[yorkshire89]

Yes, things have changed. Now it takes for weeks to get new motor from Bosch.

My last replacement was 6 weeks ago and it took a week from sending diagnostics to being back out riding. Not a bad service in my experience, but let's keep the thread on topic.

 

[Bndit]

My last replacement was 6 weeks ago and it took a week from sending diagnostics to being back out riding. Not a bad service in my experience, but let's keep the thread on topic.

You got new motor in a week?

 

[Zimmerframe]

I think with Bosch, for example, you have a massive company which can afford and expects to have a number of replacements made, just due to sheer numbers I use.

With Pole, you have a smaller company dealing mainly direct with clients.

There is no bike shop which will be swapping over the motor and returning the damaged one.

Pole could send out replacement parts and possibly never get the damaged part back - with no idea how the part failed. You can understand their system to offer to expedited replacement parts if you pay and then refund if they find the part failed due to defect.

As they say, it protects both parties. It might seem unreasonable, but just compare it to other DTC sellers and the problems people have with trying to obtain replacement parts.

Ultimately it's still a niche product. You're buying a Pagani for Porsche money.

 

[leo_kokkonen]

Failures are going to happen but if this was my bike I'd be expecting a replacement to be in the post while I get the old one removed and packed up to return.

I completely agree that an ideal solution would involve a seamless process like the one described. We will strive to make this work within our current system, but for now, we need some guarantee that we'll receive the damaged items back. In certain instances, we have indeed sent new parts and simply requested customers to scrap and recycle the old components. We're always working towards improving our processes to better serve our customers.

 

[Mikerb]

The issue here is that some claims ( probably a small minority) will be due to accident damage etc rather than a structural failure. With the majority of warranty claims for more mainstream brands the "middle man" is usually a dealer ( LBS) or in the case of Bosch, any Bosch dealer.............and that would usually be a local LBS/dealer or at the very least in the same country!! Maybe the ultimate answer here for Pole is to appoint at the very least an authorised warranty agent in the UK and US etc to avoid delays in dealing with warranty claims. The process would be for the rider to deal with the local warranty agent who would have the authority to authorise or reject the claim and then act as the middle man to recieve replacement parts as required.........and send the broken part to Pole.
I think meanwhile Pole should be prepared to deal with riders based on good quality photographs of the damage and the complete bike together with a written statement of how/when the damage occured etc. Any rider ( unlikely) trying to make an unwarranted claim would lay themselves open to accusation of fraud!! The cost of a part like a swingarm must be fairly minimal for Pole and worth the risk in return for good customer service and relations. A claim for a complete frame may be a different scenario however, I accept.