High Rock Ruti
Active member
High Rock RutiDo you worry about flying ? because lots of parts on modern passenger aircraft are glued together
As is your car, just saying?
Warm Regards Ruti
Pole Voima Is Incredible
- Thread starter Rob Rides EMTB
- Start date
As is your car, just saying?
Warm Regards Ruti
2WheelsNot4
E*POWAH Master
That would certainly give your inner thighs a workout.
My dad always said to me…..if you got nothing good to say don’t say anything.
Rob did not mention anything a bout a flip chip which seems de rigour on most new bikes now; and if there was one it might be able to resolve the inevitable issues caused by a high bb....and therefore high centre of mass. Bike on high for adventure climbing with gnarly climbs.............bike on low setting for fast singletrack and downhill.
In the review of the Whyte E160 RSX Bikeradar made some comparisons with the Pole and specifically noted the extra effort required to manoevre the bike through twisty turns. Rob stated he found a way how to get it to turn in well but in my experience that is not the issue with a bike that has a higher centre of mass, it is correcting the bike to an upright stance after leaning it in that is the issue. Looks easy enough on the Pole design to include a flip chip.
I like the idea of CNC machined and bonded frames..............I would far prefer that to any mass produced carbon frame.
In the review of the Whyte E160 RSX Bikeradar made some comparisons with the Pole and specifically noted the extra effort required to manoevre the bike through twisty turns. Rob stated he found a way how to get it to turn in well but in my experience that is not the issue with a bike that has a higher centre of mass, it is correcting the bike to an upright stance after leaning it in that is the issue. Looks easy enough on the Pole design to include a flip chip.
I like the idea of CNC machined and bonded frames..............I would far prefer that to any mass produced carbon frame.
I find my Voima just fine to flip around in tight single track, the high BB is like older DH bikes which means you can swallow up those rocks and drops much easer without smashing the BB. My V4 Santa Cruz nomad it just terrible for cranks and BB ground impacting and that's with flip chip set in the high position?
Once you've got the sag at about 1/3rd on the Voima its completely fine as with any new bike it takes a time to get used to it?
Once you've got the sag at about 1/3rd on the Voima its completely fine as with any new bike it takes a time to get used to it?
That test in bike radar was flawed from the beginning. The tester had preconceived assumptions based on the geometry and tried to change the Voima to emulate other bikes geo, rather than having an open mind and testing the bike setup as Pole intended it to be and in the process he totally screwed up the settings and in turn, he messed up the way the bike handled. It’s a totally different bike by design and isn’t intended to be setup like other bikes. The high bb helps it turn quicker not slower. Also he increased the sag so much in an effort to lower the bb, it ruined the way the suspension handled. The tester also acted like he knew more than Pole about how the bike should be setup. He was a total douche and that test should not be taken seriously.
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- Thread starter
- #37
Turns quick - no issues at all there. I think there’s something around fulcrum point and mass centralisation that helps this tip in and turn fast.
This bike feels so good to ride.
I rode my Rail yesterday and it felt like going back 5 years
This bike feels so good to ride.
I rode my Rail yesterday and it felt like going back 5 years
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- Thread starter
- #38
Pole feels a bit firmer to ride - it’s way more progressive in the travel. Pole climbs much better due to suspension design and higher BB. Kenevo in 29er is the closest bike in performance to the Pole.
Descending would be amazing comparison that I want to do (and time.).
Kenevo is about 1.5KG lighter (that’s in the frame, battery and battery hardware).
- Thread starter
- #39
This just arrived. Going right on the Voima!
Well I could not understand how he chose to set up the Fox 38 and Float X on the Whyte either!! Very different to Fox recommendations and my set up with the 38 which I have on 2 bikes.
Please please please
do a timed comparison. Would be so interesting
Hey folks, next n00b Voima building question - I've just fitted a chainring to the Voima, and it really doesn't look right. Chainline looks way out, when compared to the chain guide. Am I supposed to space this out, or have I bought the wrong chainring? I can't find a figure for the Voima chainline.
The lockring supplied with the chainring doesn't fit, either, so I used the Bosch one supplied with the frame.
The lockring supplied with the chainring doesn't fit, either, so I used the Bosch one supplied with the frame.
- Thread starter
- #43
Thanks @Rob Rides EMTB - that helps a lot.
It's this one - Rotor ROUND DM BOSCH® e-MTB RING R32T BLACK
ROUND DM BOSCH® e-MTB RING R32T BLACK | C01-525-29010-0
ROUND DM BOSCH® e-MTB RING R32T BLACK Chainline 52 mm (Boost) Weight (34t) 96 gr Chainring assembly Direct Mount Lockring 8.5 gr / Included Material 7075-T6 CNC Alloy Technologies Alu7075...
rotoruk.co.uk
There should be some extra spacers for the chain guide to space it out some.
Durrti
Active member
52 is the correct offset, double check everything is put on in the correct order. Can’t remember what it is right now
You should have some spacers in with the box to sort it? They go behind the plastic parts and ali adjuster?
Waynemarlow
E*POWAH Master
Rob you are quite a tall guy, a steep seat stay angle such as the Voima in an XLarge frame will equate to a slacker angle in say Medium frames due to the relationship of length of the stay and seatpost combined together with the longer than usual chainstay (a long chainstay length will slacken the effective seat stay angle allowing better climbing ).
OK I can think that through, but looking at you riding the Voima, you look like we did way back in the 80's and 90's, riding on top of the bike rather than "in" the bike as Whyte and other bikes trends have gone towards, Have Pole over done the steep seat angle or are they simply compensating correctly for the larger lengths of an XL frame ?
But does this not lead to a real weird feeling when you are riding on or near on the flat, which we probably spend most of time doing, ( ignore the downhill bit as we can move the seat down and out the way ). Does that steep seat post angle create a sitting tall and foward feeling ( much higher COG ) or am I incorrect in that ? If so then aren't we winding the geometry design of the rear part of the frame way way back to the 90's ?
OK I can think that through, but looking at you riding the Voima, you look like we did way back in the 80's and 90's, riding on top of the bike rather than "in" the bike as Whyte and other bikes trends have gone towards, Have Pole over done the steep seat angle or are they simply compensating correctly for the larger lengths of an XL frame ?
But does this not lead to a real weird feeling when you are riding on or near on the flat, which we probably spend most of time doing, ( ignore the downhill bit as we can move the seat down and out the way ). Does that steep seat post angle create a sitting tall and foward feeling ( much higher COG ) or am I incorrect in that ? If so then aren't we winding the geometry design of the rear part of the frame way way back to the 90's ?
yorkshire89
E*POWAH Master
I think Rob mentioned (in the other thread) that he rides a K3 not a K4.
When I've compared the geometry to my bike, the reach for the K3 is the same as my XL, but the top tube length is 50mm shorter. I already have my saddle as far back as it will go on it's rails so I think I may be a bit too constricted pedalling normally, and wouldn't really want a longer bike reach wise.
- Thread starter
- #53
Hi Wayne
This doesn't really make sense (or maybe I'm not understanding your post). You mention seat stay angle? Assume you mean seat tube angle?
The seat tube angle is not effected by chainstay length. The seat angle is the angle of the seat tube relative to the horizontal.
A long chainstay doesn't slacken the effective seat angle, they are independent of one another. What a longer chainstay does is change the rider weight distribution from rear to front centre.
Apologies if I've misunderstood you, but for anyone wanting to learn more there's a decent Pinkbike article here.
They've made a seat angle that makes it easier to climb on, irrespective of frame size. Technically, a larger length dropper post will allow a taller saddle height, and that in turn will slacken effective seat tube angle if run at maximum height, depending on where the angle is measured from (relative to saddle height).
Not at all. Its extremely comfortable.
Depends on how you ride. For climbs, a steep seat tube is preferred, due to weight being more central on the bike. I climb with saddle lower, to keep COG low, traction high and can move body position around on the bike more.
There's no 90's bike that have geometry anything like this...
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- Thread starter
- #54
I'd also add that riding seated is merely a position adopted for relatively sedate terrain. Trails, steep climbs, descents, all out of the saddle.
Waynemarlow
E*POWAH Master
Ooops, yes
Yes this is what I'm interested in. Bear in mind that distribution will change as the bike climbs on steeper and steeper terrain.
Agreed
It would be interesting to take a poll on who actually climbs mostly out of the saddle or as I think most do, climb in the saddle using the power of the motor together with our own power. Certainly to get best grip over any length of time you need to be at a pretty constant cadence, stable with a fair proportion of weight centred over the bike by pivoting forward the riders upper body, which lowers the COG and allows our legs to power up nicely. Combining all those things is tough if you are out of the saddle for anything longer than a minute or two for most of us.
Its interesting for me that you already acknowledge having to lower your seat in the climb, which effectively will reduce your own mechanical efficiency and gives a lower COG from the high COG a steep seat tube will have. Where as with a slacker slightly longer seat tube setup you might get the same grip, still be able to sit on the seat spinning at a good even cadence and have a more relaxed upper body balancing the bike out nicely.
Bike geometry is really a dark art and maybe Pole have found a sweetspot, I guess its going to be up to what a riders preference is. The photo below shows a really upright cramped body position, I'm not sure on this new trend toward steeper seat tube angles is for me.
It’s not a cramped position for me on my Voima at all. It’s very comfortable and 90% of my climbing is seated. Only on the super steep normally unclimbable climbs my ass comes slightly off my seat. This is by far the best climbing bike I’ve ever ridden. And the flats are just as comfortable too. I think the key is having your bars at or above your seat height at maximum extension So your wrists don’t have too much pressure on them. At full extension my seat is a couple inches lower than my bars, which also helps get behind the bike/bars and keep the weight lower on the steep descents. For me, this is just a great bike that can seriously do it all. The steep seat tube angle and the long 455mm chainstay is the key to the great climbing too. Initially I thought the steep seat tube may be an issue but it’s quite the opposite and I love it.
I reckon the more climbs you can comfortably do seated the better the balance fore/aft must be on any particular bike. For me if the climb is one that can be done in one shot and is steep but not technical I stay seated but with the dropper probably a third down from max height. If its technical I prefer to adopt the sort of stance Rob referred to......off the saddle and keep low.
So much focus is given to head tube and seat tube angles but the geo of a bike has to work as a complete set of dimensions and I believe how well a bike is balanced fore and aft both when seated and when up on the pedals goes a long way to defining how the bike rides.
One thing that Rob did not include in his response above is the effect of shock SAG and progression on the dynamic angle of the seat tube.
So much focus is given to head tube and seat tube angles but the geo of a bike has to work as a complete set of dimensions and I believe how well a bike is balanced fore and aft both when seated and when up on the pedals goes a long way to defining how the bike rides.
One thing that Rob did not include in his response above is the effect of shock SAG and progression on the dynamic angle of the seat tube.
westcoastmtbr
Active member
Really like the Voima Rob! Love my Rise in L, and thinking of adding the Voima to the fleet (lol!) as the perfect second Ebike. Does this combo make sense? One full fat, as a monster truck, and a Porsche Macan to feel nimble and light with the Rise. If done, then this does commit me to the insane to ride 4 days a week rider. We have such great terrain here in N. California. Tahoe, Downey come to mind for the Voima. Thoughts on the perfect two bikes? You have ridden both, just curious to your thoughts. Also, just a bit concerned about what size I would get in a Voima. I would take an s4 in Levo for sure, and L right on the edge for my Rise, vs. XL. 6'1" 32"inseam. Help Rob!!
slickrock
Active member
While I fully recommend the Voima for any e-mtber, it might pose a dilemma with these 2 steeds in your stable. I've briefly test rode a Rise and have been with my Voima since mid July. Despite the obvious differences, these bikes are thematically quite different. The Rise is an excellent example of an agile MTB with an efficient "dash" of assist (coming from a modded EP8 rather than the small motor brethren of Fazua and TQ) and modest weight. As such the bike is quite approachable and familiar and can be ridden in a manner like most mtbs we've come to know a love of over the years.
The Voima OTH, takes the full power and weight of a Bosch e-bike powertrain and leans into a full 29er with 190mm travel all around as a design objective. What kind of geometry and suspension design would be required so that it doesn't act like a clumsy "monster truck"? Rather, how could one take advantage of these major components and produce a very fast and capable bike on uphills, downhills, and in curves, yet still retain a long travel, long wheelbase advantage? It would have to be a very different kind of bike and the Voima is just that: a very different kind of bike and it needs to be ridden in a different kind of way may that not be instantly approachable like with the Rise.
Which brings to mind the only real problem I have with this bike: once I got used to it and became able to exploit what it can provide to the riding experience, it makes all my other bikes feel "off" somehow, like they all belong to a different, older, generational mindset of what an MTB is or how it should handle. Which brings me back to your question if a Rise/Voima combo makes sense. Perhaps yes, but only for the time it takes to understand riding the Voima. After that, one bike will likely be consistently chosen over the other.
westcoastmtbr
Active member
Well said, and my fear as well. I thought a light powered e might be the perfect solution until I realize that I'm having trouble keeping up with my Levo friends in 1/2 my shape. Suddenly I fell like if your going to go for it, the it just may make sense to just go full throttle and go for epic rides. Ugh. In reality, the Voima ticks the box at quite the reasonable price fashion. Just looked at the Ibis option and it just looks so so, at a 3-4k price premium. Time to jump on board.
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