Part # 1: Orbea Rise - Upper Linkage Axle and Bearing Service

[jene]

Neilo, how's it going? I was wondering how you made out with that axle.

Jene, I'm sorry, I misread your question and thought it was the linkage arms which you could not get off. I've answered your question regarding what I recommended to Neilo below.

...

Thanks for all the info Rod. Very useful! mostly the info about the penetrant oil and the idea of using a bearings puller, first I´ll get the oil asap and I hope it works...

The thing is my Rise has about 800km and never thought that it´d be require a bearings replacement so early...

Not sure if the bearings of the axle could be covered with something, the ideal would be a thin cap but perhaps some soft solid compose could be applied to avoid dust and water contacting directly...

 

[jene]

I'm going to go one step further than Rod and say to tip your bike on its side so the pivot bearing is level and spray lots of penetrating fluid so it pools at the interface of the axle and the bearing. Let it sit for half a day and then flip it over and do the other side. Letting the fluid soak in can help you avoid destroying the axle or damaging your frame.

Another trick will be to grab some dry ice pellets and jam them down the hollow centre of the axle before hitting it out. Doing all this may be worth it to avoid damage.

Good tricks Rich!!

 

[Rod B.]

Thanks for all the info Rod. Very useful! mostly the info about the penetrant oil and the idea of using a bearings puller, first I´ll get the oil asap and I hope it works...

The thing is my Rise has about 800km and never thought that it´d be require a bearings replacement so early...

Not sure if the bearings of the axle could be covered with something, the ideal would be a thin cap but perhaps some soft solid compose could be applied to avoid dust and water contacting directly...

I agree the upper pivot axle design could be improved with better sealing. I agree, 800km doesn't seem like much. Are you subjecting the bike to a lot of water?

A bearing press makes re-installation of new pivot bearings a much easier process. I highly recommend buying a bearing press, like what I pictured. Use a drift punch to drive out the old bearings from the frame. I like to use a brass drift punch. The bearings are hardened steel and a brass punch prevents shattering the bearing race.

I would suggest using a marine grade waterproof grease during re-assembly on all the pivot points. This will help the bearings last a bit longer. I like to use Schaeffer 219 SynForce Green, Waterproof Grease

https://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/302-219-td.pdf

 

[Richridesmtb]

Good tricks Rich!!

No problems! With the dry ice you're best to work quickly once you've got the dry ice applied. It will start cooling the bearing as well if you take too long.

 

[jene]

I agree the upper pivot axle design could be improved with better sealing. I agree, 800km doesn't seem like much. Are you subjecting the bike to a lot of water?

A bearing press makes re-installation of new pivot bearings a much easier process. I highly recommend buying a bearing press, like what I pictured. Use a drift punch to drive out the old bearings from the frame. I like to use a brass drift punch. The bearings are hardened steel and a brass punch prevents shattering the bearing race.

I would suggest using a marine grade waterproof grease during re-assembly on all the pivot points. This will help the bearings last a bit longer. I like to use Schaeffer 219 SynForce Green, Waterproof Grease

https://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/302-219-td.pdf

Not really Rod, I only washed it a couple of times. Here it's quite dry and there's no mud.. Perhaps dust came in and after 500-600 started this sound... But compared to other bikes I had, it started to sound so early. But for sure it's not a good design to prevent bearings be durable.

I bought some time ago a bearing press to pull / push the bb30 bearings but I guess it's not valid for this bearings, I have to check...

Thanks for the info about the marine grass, I'll buy one for sure, and as a usual thing, also disassemble the linkeage each 500 kms to avoid this issues again..

 

[Rod B.]

Not really Rod, I only washed it a couple of times. Here it's quite dry and there's no mud.. Perhaps dust came in and after 500-600 started this sound... But compared to other bikes I had, it started to sound so early. But for sure it's not a good design to prevent bearings be durable.

I bought some time ago a bearing press to pull / push the bb30 bearings but I guess it's not valid for this bearings, I have to check...

Thanks for the info about the marine grass, I'll buy one for sure, and as a usual thing, also disassemble the linkeage each 500 kms to avoid this issues again..

Jene, any bearing press will work as long as the threaded shaft on the bearing press will fit inside and through the pivot axle with several inches to spare for each side. If your press does not fit, you can quickly make a homemade bearing press which you can use to free up the axle.

Go to the hardware store and buy a piece of 9mm all thread that is around 300mm in length. Also buy several large flat washers and the corresponding nuts to fit the all thread. The bearing press would work in this manner:

 

[jene]

Pretty nice picture Rod and good explained. I have to check because I'm on holidays right now but I guess the bearing press that I have will work. The only piece I need is the pipe sleeve to allow the axle moves while I pull it. Perhaps I can buy something like this:

 

[hind-corners]

Did my Loctite 638 treatment today. I had to tighten up linkage every third ride and im pretty lightweight. Hope it sort out the issue.

So far so good, no creaks and rear end feels more stable overall (maybe its just in my head but..). Love the bike even more.

Mine is btw Rise Hydro and some torque specifications are different vs the Carbon one. I have followed the blue paper.

 

[jene]

I'm starting to get worried...

While I keep tighten it got harder, not sure to go ahead because axle appears to be broken

 

[ebsocalmtb]

I tapped that out with a rubber mallet. I did the upper link service this weekend and @Rod B. I found this thread very helpful. It's quite rare that a how-to actually answers questions that the white papers leave out and this one does just that. Well written, easy to follow and provides great info.

Thanks.

 

[jene]

I'm starting to get worried... View attachment 97026
View attachment 97027
View attachment 97028

While I keep tighten it got harder, not sure to go ahead because axle appears to be broken

I got to extract the axle buuuut I created another problem, the tool is inserted in the axle

 

[jene]

Finally i was able to get it out... Axle damaged
But I guess I can repair a little bit

 

[jene]

Has anybody changed the bearings?
Edit: is safe to seat the aluminum tube tool on the frame or is there a way to avoid paint or frame damage?
Edit2: I saw Hunting Cuvettes Neatt Press Fit BB 24mm from €19.99 instead of €24.99 is the right size to extract the bearing?
Bearing is 20mm inside diameter and 31mm outer diameter and the size of this tool if I don't get wrong is valid for 1" - 1"- 1/4" (25.4mm to 31.7mm) so is it valid?

 

[Richridesmtb]

Tap them out carefully with a drift is an option.

 

[Rod B.]

Has anybody changed the bearings?
Edit: is safe to seat the aluminum tube tool on the frame or is there a way to avoid paint or frame damage?
Edit2: I saw Hunting Cuvettes Neatt Press Fit BB 24mm from €19.99 instead of €24.99 is the right size to extract the bearing?
Bearing is 20mm inside diameter and 31mm outer diameter and the size of this tool if I don't get wrong is valid for 1" - 1"- 1/4" (25.4mm to 31.7mm) so is it valid?

Jene,

I‘m sorry for the late replay. I’m currently on a mountain biking road trip with some buddies. Rich is correct, you want to use a drift punch to drive each pivot bearing out of the frame. You insert the drift punch through the bearing hole on one side of the frame and drive the opposite side bearing out of the frame. Then repeat with the other side. Super easy to do but you‘ll need to hit the bearing with force to drive them out of the frame. Here is an example of a brass drift punch. Any punch will work, but I like to use a brass punch because it prevents the hardened steel metal bearing from shattering when struck by the punch.

When the time comes to insert the new pivot bearings into the frame, use your bearing press tool. I use a bearing press tool similar to the one pictured below. The upper frame pivot bearings are Enduro 6804 LLU Max Black Oxide bearings. You will need two. One last note of caution. Make sure the bearings are inserted and pressed straight and true when you press them into the frame. If the bearings become cocked and off angle when pressed, they may damage the carbon frame.

Enduro 6804 LLU MAX Black Oxide

 

[Rod B.]

Hello, for those wondering, my buddies and I are doing a 12 day road trip across the USA and stopping at various places to ride. Today we rode the newly built Pahvant trail system in Richfield Utah. If you ever have the opportunity, give the Pahvant system a shot. The trails were exceptional and featured an assortment of drops, jumps, table tops, gaps, berms, high speed flow and rock gardens.


Yours truly on the Rise, my other buddy has a TREK Rail

 

[jene]

Hello, for those wondering, my buddies and I are doing a 12 day road trip across the USA and stopping at various places to ride. Today we rode the newly built Pahvant trail system in Richfield Utah. If you ever have the opportunity, give the Pahvant system a shot. The trails were exceptional and featured an assortment of drops, jumps, table tops, gaps, berms, high speed flow and rock gardens.


Yours truly on the Rise, my other buddy has a TREK Rail

Thanks Rod, nice trip an, it appears to be a good area, these landscapes are similar as I have near my location, Here
it's courious

Edit: I finally extracted the bearings with a shafter.
I've bought a tool to assembly/ disassemble blind bearings. It has a cilinder to seat in the frame... I guess it's not another way to mount the bearings isn't?

By the other hand, I see that loctite 638 is the most used to retain the axle but I can't buy it here. Anybody knows another brand to buy it in Europe?

I could afford loctite 271 but it's quite difficult to disassemble

 

[Alan O]

Thanks Rod, nice trip an, it appears to be a good area, these landscapes are similar as I have near my location, Here
it's courious

Edit: I finally extracted the bearings with a shafter.
I've bought a tool to assembly/ disassemble blind bearings. It has a cilinder to seat in the frame... I guess it's not another way to mount the bearings isn't?
View attachment 97067

By the other hand, I see that loctite 638 is the most used to retain the axle but I can't buy it here. Anybody knows another brand to buy it in Europe?

I could afford loctite 271 but it's quite difficult to disassemble

Hi
Not sure where you live, I'm from the UK, you can purchase from both eBay or Amazon with next day delivery.
Hope this helps. Alan

 

[jene]

Hi
Not sure where you live, I'm from the UK, you can purchase from both eBay or Amazon with next day delivery.
Hope this helps. Alan

Thanks Alan, I'm from Spain. The problem is the time to delivery and border taxes. I finally found a dealer with reasonable price for L638 but in the same shop They told me that there're another similar products from other brand:
Ceys TECHNOBOND R03
Ceys TECHNOBOND 4en1

Not sure if they're as good as L638 but may help and are cheaper.

 

[jene]

I finally give it up

From the left side, the axle is not inserted completly until the end. There's some room between the left arm and the frame and despite of hitting the arm with a plastic hammer, there's one or two mm out of it should stay.

The axle is inserted correctly in the left arm spindle but the right arm despite of being in its place regarding to the frame, is not inserted completly in the arm.

Left arm:

Left space:

Besides of that, I tried to loose the left arm after put some loc638 and it's very tighten. I couldn't separate the arm from the axle so I can not extract the axle again to start from the beginning.

In my opinion, there's something wrong with the axle, it's not normal that is so tighten. It took me a lot of efforts to extract it and the same to insert it back.

Now with the arm fixed to the axle gives me in a dead road.

 

[mak]

Hello, for those wondering, my buddies and I are doing a 12 day road trip across the USA and stopping at various places to ride. Today we rode the newly built Pahvant trail system in Richfield Utah. If you ever have the opportunity, give the Pahvant system a shot. The trails were exceptional and featured an assortment of drops, jumps, table tops, gaps, berms, high speed flow and rock gardens.


Yours truly on the Rise, my other buddy has a TREK Rail
View attachment 97057

View attachment 97059



View attachment 97058

View attachment 97060

View attachment 97064

View attachment 97065

Living the dream mate, fair play

 

[Richridesmtb]

I get incomplete insertion with one arm on my bike. Strangely, I think that is normal. Rod mentioned it in another post I think.

 

[Rod B.]

Thanks Alan, I'm from Spain. The problem is the time to delivery and border taxes. I finally found a dealer with reasonable price for L638 but in the same shop They told me that there're another similar products from other brand:
Ceys TECHNOBOND R03
Ceys TECHNOBOND 4en1

Not sure if they're as good as L638 but may help and are cheaper.

Jene,
Spain is beautiful, some day I hope to ride there.

Living the dream mate, fair play

Jene, looking at the photographs, the gap appears correct.

When using the pre-load tool, there will always be a very small gap between the end of the axle and the linkage arm. There should be no part of the axle visible between the inside edge of the linkage arm and the frame. You have a lot of grease between the linkage arm and frame so I cannot tell in the photoif the gap is correct. If possible, you may want to wipe away some of this grease or else it will attract sand and dirt.

Let us know how you bike rides.

Cheers, Rod.

 

[jene]

Jene,
Spain is beautiful, some day I hope to ride there.

Jene, looking at the photographs, the gap appears correct.

When using the pre-load tool, there will always be a very small gap between the end of the axle and the linkage arm. There should be no part of the axle visible between the inside edge of the linkage arm and the frame. You have a lot of grease between the linkage arm and frame so I cannot tell in the photoif the gap is correct. If possible, you may want to wipe away some of this grease or else it will attract sand and dirt.

Let us know how you bike rides.

Cheers, Rod.

I get incomplete insertion with one arm on my bike. Strangely, I think that is normal. Rod mentioned it in another post I think.

Not really, the axle does not goes to the end of the right arm and doesn't fit completely then the bolts of the back triangle does not insert. It's a mess. I left it in my local shop... The worst I see is that the left arm is completely fixed to the axle with loc638 and not sure that they are able to extract it...

 

[Richridesmtb]

Not really, the axle does not goes to the end of the right arm and doesn't fit completely then the bolts of the back triangle does not insert. It's a mess. I left it in my local shop... The worst I see is that the left arm is completely fixed to the axle with loc638 and not sure that they are able to extract it...

Hey mate, don't stress too much. I'm reasonably certain some heat will get the 638 to separate.

The insertion of the axle is not symmetrical on my bike and I do have a challenge getting one of my seat stay bolts started. It is frustrating, you feel like it is going wrong and then it all comes together. You run into exactly the same issues the next time you reassemble it, but experience tells you it is okay so it seems easier.

The shop shouldn't have any trouble, well, no more than you would.

My axle was inserted the other way from the factory. I really should check if that makes aligning the seat stay bolts easier. Either way the linkages are abutting the frame so it shouldn't really matter!

Keep at it jene. You'll get on top of maintaining it!

 

[Rod B.]

Not really, the axle does not goes to the end of the right arm and doesn't fit completely then the bolts of the back triangle does not insert. It's a mess. I left it in my local shop... The worst I see is that the left arm is completely fixed to the axle with loc638 and not sure that they are able to extract it...

Jene,

The bike shop shouldn’t have a problem separating the axle from the linkage arm. They will get your bike in top working condition and you can get back on the trail. No matter how frustrating it may seem at times when working on your bike, you are that much better and more skilled by the experience. You’re doing great. We’ve all been there and faced similar challenges. On occasion, I’ve encountered difficulties with a bike. I find that if I put the tools down and give things a rest overnight, it works wonders with figuring out the problem and fixing the bike.

I suspect the axle may have been damaged when it was removed and it’s now causing issues with you getting the linkage arms to slide fully onto the axle. You can take a small chisel and use it to slightly spread the left arm where it clamps onto the axle. This will loosen the linkage arm enough to break loose the bond created by the Loctite 638. The bike shop may need to replace the axle if they find it is too badly scored.

My buddies and I are still heading east to Bentonville Arkansas. Yesterday my friends and I rode a trail system called the “Midlands Trail” near the town of Buena Vista in Colorado. The Midland system included several technical trails called Unchained, DJango, Sausage and Bacon N Bits. The trails featured rock sections, drops, jumps and some fast flow with berms. Here are some pictures of the trail. If anybody on the forum has a chance, give this system a ride, we had a blast.

 

[Alan O]

Not really, the axle does not goes to the end of the right arm and doesn't fit completely then the bolts of the back triangle does not insert. It's a mess. I left it in my local shop... The worst I see is that the left arm is completely fixed to the axle with loc638 and not sure that they are able to extract it...

Hi Jene
This reply may help you in the future, I was also having problems removing the arms from the axle which I had secured with loc638, I used a bearing puller as shown in the attached photos, arms came off really easy. Note: washers need to be exactly 15mm outside diameter.

 

[jene]

Hey mate, don't stress too much. I'm reasonably certain some heat will get the 638 to separate.

The insertion of the axle is not symmetrical on my bike and I do have a challenge getting one of my seat stay bolts started. It is frustrating, you feel like it is going wrong and then it all comes together. You run into exactly the same issues the next time you reassemble it, but experience tells you it is okay so it seems easier.

The shop shouldn't have any trouble, well, no more than you would.

My axle was inserted the other way from the factory. I really should check if that makes aligning the seat stay bolts easier. Either way the linkages are abutting the frame so it shouldn't really matter!

Keep at it jene. You'll get on top of maintaining it!

Thanks man. They finally could unmount the arm... Not sure how They did it... I suppose that being made by them before, it was easy to do..

And it's reassembled symetricly, now there's the same distance between the arms and the linkage... This was pretty though for me...

Not sure if I will try the next time... The axle was quite hard to get in/ out.

Anyway, They said that it's a good practice placing a bit of oil on bearings area after bike wash.

 

[jene]

Jene,

The bike shop shouldn’t have a problem separating the axle from the linkage arm. They will get your bike in top working condition and you can get back on the trail. No matter how frustrating it may seem at times when working on your bike, you are that much better and more skilled by the experience. You’re doing great. We’ve all been there and faced similar challenges. On occasion, I’ve encountered difficulties with a bike. I find that if I put the tools down and give things a rest overnight, it works wonders with figuring out the problem and fixing the bike.

I suspect the axle may have been damaged when it was removed and it’s now causing issues with you getting the linkage arms to slide fully onto the axle. You can take a small chisel and use it to slightly spread the left arm where it clamps onto the axle. This will loosen the linkage arm enough to break loose the bond created by the Loctite 638. The bike shop may need to replace the axle if they find it is too badly scored.

My buddies and I are still heading east to Bentonville Arkansas. Yesterday my friends and I rode a trail system called the “Midlands Trail” near the town of Buena Vista in Colorado. The Midland system included several technical trails called Unchained, DJango, Sausage and Bacon N Bits. The trails featured rock sections, drops, jumps and some fast flow with berms. Here are some pictures of the trail. If anybody on the forum has a chance, give this system a ride, we had a blast.

Thanks Rod!!
I was really frustrated after being some days on it, buying stuffs to fix it, couldn't ride and thinking on it. But now... How so happy We are when the bike goes so good!

Anyway, it was a good exam to pass. Perhaps I didn't do it but I was close!

Next time not sure if I will try with this axle, I've seen that the other bearings are easier to change, apparently...

Enjoy your days, it seems to be a fun place to ride!

 

[jene]

Hi Jene
This reply may help you in the future, I was also having problems removing the arms from the axle which I had secured with loc638, I used a bearing puller as shown in the attached photos, arms came off really easy. Note: washers need to be exactly 15mm outside diameter.

Thanks Alan,

I apparently see in your photos that the key is the tabs of your tool. I didn't see a tool like that before. If I understood, You push the bolt and the washer while the tabs of the bearing tool is grappling the arm.

It's really a quite practical tool to have!