Levo SL Gen 1 Official Levo SL Thread

[levity]

... While 100% peak power refers to the maximum motor power, ie 240W, it is not totally clear what support is. It could be a % of rider input, if so then at 35% the rider would have to input 240 / .35 = 685W for the motor to be at max...

I think there is some confusion about how much power the motor returns for a given rider effort.

The Support Level power settings are multiplication factors, and the SL 1.1 motor provides or adds up to double (2X) what the rider applies. Thus at a Support Level setting of 35% the motor will provide an additional 0.35 x 2 = 0.7X what the rider inputs. So for your example the rider would only have to input 343W to achieve maximal motor output.

Here's a simple test you can try to convince yourself:
1. Activate Mission Control on your phone and go to the LET'S RIDE icon.
2. Click on the STATS menu at the top and set two windows to report RIDER POWER and MOTOR POWER (just press and hold a window to see choices).
3. While riding compare the RIDER and MOTOR readings with your Tune Settings.

For example if you set Eco to 50% Support & 50% Peak Power you should observe that Motor Power is similar to Rider Power (i.e., 1X additional power). If you set the Support and Peak Levels to 100% you should see Motor Power twice the Rider Power (i.e., the bike motor "doubles your effort"). Intermediate Support and Peak Settings will give corresponding proportional values.

By the way, the max power output of my Levo SL shows up as ~300 watts, and I can get this with 150 watt input in Turbo mode

 

[AlexEMTB]

Think about it... SL Carbon comp has exact same full Carbon frame as the SL founders edition. Components can be swapped in and out as you can afford them and you'll end up with an S Works bike if you want. Only reason to buy the s-works is they have most upgrades done for you buy specialized and under warranty.

On the standard Levo there is a different carbon frame construction on the s-works versus the expert. Fact 9 versus fact 11 I believe.

Totally makes sense and it's fun to gradually do a build to taste. The only thing you can't get is the cool matte carbon finish/S-WORKS graphics.

 

[RaDja]

Yesterday did a good ride with the Levo SL and I am completely in love with this bike. Steering and driving is so light, you definitely don't have the feeling of being on the road with an e-mtb.
The SL's setting is at 35% - 70% which is perfect for me. I never get out of the eco mode and can even handle climbs up to 20%. The only downside is that the front wheel tends to lift on a really steep climb. You must emphatically lie on your handlebars to avoid doing unwanted wheely. After a brisk ride of 87 km I still had 35% left in the combined batteries
Otherwise I have nothing but praise for the SL. (engine maybe a little bit too loud)

 

[AlexEMTB]

Installed the freehub. At first I was a bit concerned with the dimensions / stack up but once assembled everything lined up. I them put XX1 cassette and chain on the bike. Net weight savings was 280 grams. Went for a 10 mile ride. All works as expected.
View attachment 27022

Classy build! Perhaps there's a Fox factory kashima fork in its future?

 

[SquireRides]

I think there is some confusion about how much power the motor returns for a given rider effort.

The Support Level power settings are multiplication factors, and the SL 1.1 motor provides or adds up to double (2X) what the rider applies. Thus at a Support Level setting of 35% the motor will provide an additional 0.35 x 2 = 0.7X what the rider inputs. So for your example the rider would only have to input 343W to achieve maximal motor output.

Here's a simple test you can try to convince yourself:
1. Activate Mission Control on your phone and go to the LET'S RIDE icon.
2. Click on the STATS menu at the top and set two windows to report RIDER POWER and MOTOR POWER (just press and hold a window to see choices).
3. While riding compare the RIDER and MOTOR readings with your Tune Settings.

For example if you set Eco to 50% Support & 50% Peak Power you should observe that Motor Power is similar to Rider Power (i.e., 1X additional power). If you set the Support and Peak Levels to 100% you should see Motor Power twice the Rider Power (i.e., the bike motor "doubles your effort"). Intermediate Support and Peak Settings will give corresponding proportional values.

By the way, the max power output of my Levo SL shows up as ~300 watts, and I can get this with 150 watt input in Turbo mode

Specsh say the Levo SL motor doubles your power. So its not generating 2x your leg input power because that would triple your overall combined power. It's adding 1x your leg input, for a combined doubling of power to the drive train.

Which makes sense when it can only push out a theoretical 240W (more like 200W in real life going to the drivetrain). That's not enough to do 200% of a typical riders leg output when doing a short burst up a hill.

Which all makes the maths a bit easier: With Support at 35%, the motor will add 35%, for an combined output of 1.35x what your legs are doing.

And Peak power at, say, 50% I believe means 50% of what the motor can do, so the max the motor will assist you in that case is 240W * .5 = 120W added to your leg input power.

But of course getting to the peak 120W of assistance when only set to 35% support would require you to put a lot of power in from your legs.... about 342W which is a a short, hard effort.

 

[Kpmnd85]

Classy build! Perhaps there's a Fox factory kashima fork in its future?

Thanks. Perhaps someday a different fork and or rear shock. I'm intrigued by all of the discussions on changing front forks and rear shocks but very uneducated on what the tradeoffs would be on the performance of the bike.

 

[SquireRides]

Happy to be told otherwise, but I think this is how the power combines... (Yes, I made a spreadsheet. yes I can share it if you want to input your own Support and Peak values).

 

[crazymelki]

Sharing sounds good..... @SquireRides

 

[Kpmnd85]

Happy to be told otherwise, but I think this is how the power combines... (Yes, I made a spreadsheet. yes I can share it if you want to input your own Support and Peak values).

View attachment 28392

Is it possible to upload the FIT file from Mission Control and look at Motor Power, Rider Power and Assist / Support settings to see what is actually being delivered? I've tried to upload into Garmin Connect but it does not show Motor Power only Rider Power.

 

[levity]

I may need to edit my Post #991 above. Instead of saying “there is some confusion” perhaps I should say that “there is a great deal of confusion about how much power the SL motor returns for a given rider effort”.

I think it’s a problem with semantics. In Post #4 of the “Understanding Support vs Peak Power” thread in this forum Specialized Rider Care stated:

Support = the multiplier of rider power added by the motor

That post deals with the more powerful Levo motors, but if you read what is said about rider input and motor output it should help clarify what is meant by added motor power. (Some example numbers and added power calculations are given in the next to last paragraph.)


In Post #991 I outlined a very simple test one can do using Mission Control to measure rider input and motor output at the same time. This provides real data, and I reported my results. Anyone can create a spreadsheet to generate whatever curves one wants simply by setting the input variables.

@SquireRides - do you have a Levo SL (or a Creo with the same 1.1 motor)?

I encourage you to do the test described in Post #991 and report back.

 

[ThierryGTLTS]

I've seen a graph, but don't remember where it was.

On that graph, you can see that when you set assistance to about 60%, the motor add the same amount that you provide with the pedals, up to the defined ceiling or to 240W max.
When set to 100%, the motor gives about 1.8x your input.

But remember that you are limited to 240W and 35Nm.

Have a Nice Day.

Thierry

 

[Kpmnd85]

I was interested in converting the Comp Carbon drivetrain from HG to Shimano Micro Spline. The hub is a Formula hub. It will convert to XD and I have done this. But I am hoping a move to Hyperglide Plus will offer better shifting under power. I received the following response from Specialized today.

Hello, thanks for reaching out. Unfortunately that wheel is not convertible to the MicroSpline freehub body. The driveside hub flange protrudes slightly too far out to allow it to work.
Really sorry I don't have a better answer for you.
Thanks and happy riding!
-Nathan

Anyone wanting to move to Shimano Micro Spline will need a different hub / wheel.

 

[SquireRides]

I may need to edit my Post #991 above. Instead of saying “there is some confusion” perhaps I should say that “there is a great deal of confusion about how much power the SL motor returns for a given rider effort”.

I think it’s a problem with semantics. In Post #4 of the “Understanding Support vs Peak Power” thread in this forum Specialized Rider Care stated:

Support = the multiplier of rider power added by the motor

That post deals with the more powerful Levo motors, but if you read what is said about rider input and motor output it should help clarify what is meant by added motor power. (Some example numbers and added power calculations are given in the next to last paragraph.)


In Post #991 I outlined a very simple test one can do using Mission Control to measure rider input and motor output at the same time. This provides real data, and I reported my results. Anyone can create a spreadsheet to generate whatever curves one wants simply by setting the input variables.

@SquireRides - do you have a Levo SL (or a Creo with the same 1.1 motor)?

I encourage you to do the test described in Post #991 and report back.

I will definitely try that Mission Control check!

The maths I used is based on the Specialized Rider Care maths. They did example calculations for a modern Turbo Levo, quoted as '4.1 times the power'. That maths worked out as total output being 1 part legs, 3.1 parts motor. Hence my *assumption* that a Levo SL quoted as '2 times the power' would be 1 part legs, 1 part motor at full assist.

Not helping, was the fact that later on Specialized Rider Care gave another short example, that suggested '4,1 time the power' could mean the assist alone was 4.1 times the rider input.

So... yeah... great that you spotted the option in Mission Control to actually see what the bike is doing...

 

[ThierryGTLTS]

I will definitely try that Mission Control check!

Not helping, was the fact that later on Specialized Rider Care gave another short example, that suggested '4,1 time the power' could mean the assist alone was 4.1 times the rider input.

They are right Levo SL gives you maximum 1.8x rider input as stated above.

Thierry

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

The SL actually puts out closer to 290 watts. Looks like Specialized have accounted for the loss of power through the drive train (50 watts) to take it down to 240 watts in real power output at the wheel. Here's the graph that I made with the Mission Control / BLEvo data:

We can also see how Nm drops off quite quickly at higher cadences.

This data was taken using Turbo / 100%.

 

[Zimmerframe]

The SL actually puts out closer to 290 watts. Looks like Specialized have accounted for the loss of power through the drive train (50 watts) to take it down to 240 watts in real power output at the wheel. Here's the graph that I made with the Mission Control / BLEvo data:

Is this not just the 80% efficiency factor for the motor which spesh stated.

The motor pulls 300w, but due to 80% efficiency , it produces 240w ?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Is this not just the 80% efficiency factor for the motor which spesh stated.

The motor pulls 300w, but due to 80% efficiency , it produces 240w ?

Possibly.

I took that “80% efficient” statement to mean that due to the beltless design, 48v system there is less energy loss to heat etc in the motor, therefore increased battery life due to the design.

But you could be correct!

 

[ThierryGTLTS]

Possibly.

I took that “80% efficient” statement to mean that due to the beltless design, 48v system there is less energy loss to heat etc in the motor, therefore increased battery life due to the design.

But you could be correct!

Yes I've had the confirmation that the power given is electrical power, about 300W, and if you take into account efficiency, you have 240W of mechanical power.

Thierry

 

[apac]

Like all motors and engines there can only be a certain percentage of efficiency. There is always a loss.. usually heat, this is always a factor In electric motors. 80% power made from energy applied, 20% loss in heat due to design. If the SL motor was continuously pulling 300watts from the battery I suspect the motor would get quite hot, but of course it does not.
80% efficiency from a brushless electric motor is pretty normal.

 

[jcmonty]

The SL link from Cascade Components is ready for pre-order now. We went back and forth a few times to shave a bit of material for fit, but it looks good now!

Turbo Levo SL Link

To recap my findings - link does what it claims. Makes the bike more progressive - which helps with bottom out and small bump compliance. I don't feel any additional "wallow", and the pedal platform is firm and efficient.

For those going coil, or more DH oriented shock - this would be a great pairing (IMO). I am most likely going to get a coil or X2 shortly as I do think that the DPS is "OK", but lacking in high speed support.

 

[ImSundee]

The SL link from Cascade Components is ready for pre-order now. We went back and forth a few times to shave a bit of material for fit, but it looks good now!

Turbo Levo SL Link

To recap my findings - link does what it claims. Makes the bike more progressive - which helps with bottom out and small bump compliance. I don't feel any additional "wallow", and the pedal platform is firm and efficient.

For those going coil, or more DH oriented shock - this would be a great pairing (IMO). I am most likely going to get a coil or X2 shortly as I do think that the DPS is "OK", but lacking in high speed support.

Got any more pics of it on the bike?

 

[jcmonty]

Got any more pics of it on the bike?

This is the different prototype with a bit more material shaved off. All the kinematic adjustments are the same.

 

[jemen]

View attachment 28584 View attachment 28585 View attachment 28583
This is the different prototype with a bit more material shaved off. All the kinematic adjustments are the same.

Hmmm, whats wrong with your saddle position?

 

[Killswitch73]

Just thought I would be swapping the wheels out to my brand new Nextie rims with DT 240s . But they are Center lock shimano discs .
I take it that the magnet is still bolted on to the disc ?

So now I have a problem if this is the case .
this will put me off my order (ordering Tuesday)

 

[p3eps]

Just thought I would be swapping the wheels out to my brand new Nextie rims with DT 240s . But they are Center lock shimano discs .
I take it that the magnet is still bolted on to the disc ?

So now I have a problem if this is the case .
this will put me off my order (ordering Tuesday)

Shimano RT-EM800 Steps rotor with lockring | Chain Reaction Cycles

These are centre lock and have the magnet built in.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Just thought I would be swapping the wheels out to my brand new Nextie rims with DT 240s . But they are Center lock shimano discs .
I take it that the magnet is still bolted on to the disc ?

So now I have a problem if this is the case .
this will put me off my order (ordering Tuesday)

Not sure if these help you :

Speed sensor magnet on centre lock rotors - EMTB Forums
FYI Scott centrelock speed magnet mount - 6 bolt hub fitting - EMTB Forums

There was also a post, I think maybe in one of the SL threads where someone managed to bolt the magnet onto the centre lock disks.

 

[Killswitch73]

So my brand new XTR freeza rotor is pretty much useless then . Unless I get the Scott clamp .

 

[Zimmerframe]

So my brand new XTR freeza rotor is pretty much useless then . Unless I get the Scott clamp .

No. Someone found a neat way to just bolt the magnet to it, I just can't find the post.

 

[Blinkie]

No. Someone found a neat way to just bolt the magnet to it, I just can't find the post.

Levo SL Owners Thread - EMTB Forums

 

[jcmonty]

Hmmm, whats wrong with your saddle position?

I am used to/prefer a shorter ETT or more upright position. It's not bad, but the relatively slack seat tube angle puts your more over the rear wheel. I knew this going into an XL, but it is worth it for the extra reach and length IMO