(New to MTB) Looking for help with my Dengfu E10 build

[Waynemarlow]

Interesting vid. Got to admit mine has done a lot tougher trails than that and bigger drop offs and I have to say, I'm a pretty crap rider who tends to get landings oooh so wrong

 

[dazirl]

All to often we see computeritis of tap tap tapping away on the keyboard without doing even the slightest of investigation other than seeing a " photo" on facebook as proof. Is this one of those times ?

@dazirl has a case of his own frame being not of the standard he thought he had purchased, a great number of us are saying we are very pleased with our frames. Surely the best thing he could do is ask for a refund for the frame but then he has done 2K km's, I guess that option is no longer available.

It's great that your pleased with your frame, but in their support groups I'm not the only person that's displeased with their lackluster type of support and lack of quality control. Dengfu won't replace the frame, they offered an extra year of warranty that they most prob won't back if a problem with the frame actually happens, as this has been proved in the last few weeks with frames that have all been rejected by their team that all seam to of broke at the same place. Trust me if a refund was ever a viable option it would of been taken, but with this lot you ain't got a chance in a refund let alone a warranty replacement. And what about the fact that all the bolts on the bike has the wrong torque tolerances Lazer etched to them? That alone is a massive safety issue is it not? Had Dengfu told any of the effected customers about this issue? Or did it take nearly two months of pressuring them about why a lot of people who received E82's had different torque specs on what was ment to be the same frame? Have they even publicly announced this issue to people that bought frames and where effected from it? What about the 2mm of play in the battery mounts that a heap of us also have? Or the countless new daily creeks that appear from different areas of the frames even tho everything's torqued up to what Dengfu claim the incorrectly labeled parts should of been? On their Facebook you'll find multiple people with the same issues. Im not the problem like your trying to make out. Lack of accountability and any sort of functional quality control is the issue. As if their quality control worked, none of these issues would exist.

 

[Waynemarlow]

It's great that your pleased with your frame, but in their support groups I'm not the only person that's displeased with their lackluster type of support and lack of quality control. Dengfu won't replace the frame, they offered an extra year of warranty that they most prob won't back if a problem with the frame actually happens, as this has been proved in the last few weeks with frames that have all been rejected by their team that all seam to of broke at the same place. Trust me if a refund was ever a viable option it would of been taken, but with this lot you ain't got a chance in a refund let alone a warranty replacement. And what about the fact that all the bolts on the bike has the wrong torque tolerances Lazer etched to them? That alone is a massive safety issue is it not? Had Dengfu told any of the effected customers about this issue? Or did it take nearly two months of pressuring them about why a lot of people who received E82's had different torque specs on what was ment to be the same frame? Have they even publicly announced this issue to people that bought frames and where effected from it? What about the 2mm of play in the battery mounts that a heap of us also have? Or the countless new daily creeks that appear from different areas of the frames even tho everything's torqued up to what Dengfu claim the incorrectly labeled parts should of been? On their Facebook you'll find multiple people with the same issues. Im not the problem like your trying to make out. Lack of accountability and any sort of functional quality control is the issue. As if their quality control worked, none of these issues would exist.

I tend to agree that Dengfu's back up can be a bit hit or miss but you also have appreciate that other than the very big western manufacturers such as Spec. will offer a lifetime warranty on frames. I was a very big Yet..i fan early on and had two frames crack, unfortunately for me I was the second owner on both and the warranty was void even though both were less than 2 years old. I stayed with Yet..i but with a much more burlier designed frame from the previous XC frames and had 5 years of no problems.

One has to appreciate that XC EMtbs being used on a regular basis in the manner on that video, then I would say Dengfu has every right to say no.

"as this has been proved in the last few weeks with frames that have all been rejected by their team that all seam to of broke at the same place."
Any chance can you give us the link to where you saw this or was this another facebook entry ?

 

[Sayonara]

I don't understand why you two are defending DengFu so much. DengFu has clearly had alot of problems with the new frame and it has been known for years that DengFu uses extremely bad quality bearings in their frames. You both also constantly ingore several huge points dazirl brings up. The old E10 frame was clearly much better done in terms of durability but clearly something has changed with this new frame.

 

[Waynemarlow]

I don't understand why you two are defending DengFu so much. DengFu has clearly had alot of problems with the new frame and it has been known for years that DengFu uses extremely bad quality bearings in their frames. You both also constantly ingore several huge points dazirl brings up. The old E10 frame was clearly much better done in terms of durability but clearly something has changed with this new frame.

What has changed, we are getting one guys view, who has lifted the comments from Facebook, without any links to verify.

What are we supposed to do, simply go all Dengfu frames are now not as good as they used to be, prove that with links and statistics and I'll agree with you. My few months old frame I recently bought from Dengfu ( Dengfu E69 Frame - Bafang M820 (lightweight) ) was spot on and I can't fault it, bearings are another matter,only time will tell but here in the UK you can destroy a top quality Enduro bearing in a few rides such is the abrasiveness of the mud and water we ride in.

Convince me.

 

[sandnap]

I don't understand why you two are defending DengFu so much. DengFu has clearly had alot of problems with the new frame and it has been known for years that DengFu uses extremely bad quality bearings in their frames. You both also constantly ingore several huge points dazirl brings up. The old E10 frame was clearly much better done in terms of durability but clearly something has changed with this new frame.

Agreed, in order to keep these manufactres honest we need to hear bad experiences along with the good. We can all decide who we want to do business with based on our own interpretation of the evidence we are shown. I would be less confident in the safety of my frame if it had the visible defects dazirl posted. It doesn't mean they all have defects, clearly a lot of riders have had success with Dengfu frames. It also doesn't mean it will break, it may hold up for years. However, for me, having less confidence in my frame might limit the features I am willing to take. I am confident that my skills and risk tolerance are within the limits of a well made and tested, undamaged Chinese frame. If I ever spot damage on my frame or my skills exceed the confidence I have in my equipment (not likely at my age), it's scrap. I could buy a premium build name brand for the cost of a trip to the ER.

 

[dazirl]

What has changed, we are getting one guys view, who has lifted the comments from Facebook, without any links to verify.

What are we supposed to do, simply go all Dengfu frames are now not as good as they used to be, prove that with links and statistics and I'll agree with you. My few months old frame I recently bought from Dengfu ( Dengfu E69 Frame - Bafang M820 (lightweight) ) was spot on and I can't fault it, bearings are another matter,only time will tell but here in the UK you can destroy a top quality Enduro bearing in a few rides such is the abrasiveness of the mud and water we ride in.

Convince me.

I'm not the only person with a dogshit quality E82 with incorrectly labeled parts no. Essentially every E82 sold up till October has this issue with torque tolerances. You'll find people have abandoned their Dengfu builds on their FB page due to safety concerns and poor tolerances.
Later frames have the correct spec etched on them. I wish I'd of kept the bearings so you could see just how thin and flimsy they are and how poorly they turned, it's like they where forced Into the frame rather then correctly pressed. The E82 is ment to be an enduro frame yet the bearings and axel didn't survive one tiny half a meter drop not even 150km into the bikes life... As for weather, well meh. My Nukeproof frames still on original factory bearings after 36000km over two years of constant use. It's not weather that kills them, it's poor quality and lack of service. Something I shouldn't of had to worry about after only 100-150km of use right?

I'm also guessing you have never had the pleasure of trying to deal with them for issues? Let's start with the ordering process. Order one thing receive another. During ordering I explicitly stated the size of the shock I planned on using (230x65) I was assured that the frame would fit the shock (it's even promoted as working with the frame in their promotional videos) Nearly 6 weeks after ordering the frame it was finally sent out, and guess what? The shock didn't fit the frame....... I'd then to wait nearly a month for them to send the correct size yolk out. I was also sent a charger that was completely useless for the bike I ordered. Again another 4 week wait for the correct one to be sent out. Again this seams to be dengfus way, as many people have issues where they Re sent parts that don't fit

 

[dazirl]

And do you know how they made this 230x65mm shock fit? By grinding off some of the metal on a stock yolk and spraying it in black undercoat that does not match the finish of the rest of the suspension mounts. Something I could of done at home. Screams quality and great design don't it.

 

[sandnap]

What has changed, we are getting one guys view, who has lifted the comments from Facebook, without any links to verify.

What are we supposed to do, simply go all Dengfu frames are now not as good as they used to be, prove that with links and statistics and I'll agree with you. My few months old frame I recently bought from Dengfu ( Dengfu E69 Frame - Bafang M820 (lightweight) ) was spot on and I can't fault it, bearings are another matter,only time will tell but here in the UK you can destroy a top quality Enduro bearing in a few rides such is the abrasiveness of the mud and water we ride in.

Convince me.

Fair. I have seen name brand frames disintegrate when pushed beyond their limits so for me more information is needed to make a call on that. However, while I have limited experience working with CF I have worked with fiberglass and I know that in both cases wrinkles and bubbles create weak areas. If they are accepted by QA, I would be concerned about what I couldn't see. The internal frame pictures are enough to cause me to hesitate if I was shopping. Should I trust that these images are legitimate? If not then what form of evidence is acceptable?

 

[dazirl]

Fair. I have seen name brand frames disintegrate when pushed beyond their limits so for me more information is needed to make a call on that. However, while I have limited experience working with CF I have worked with fiberglass and I know that in both cases wrinkles and bubbles create weak areas. If they are accepted by QA, I would be concerned about what I couldn't see. The internal frame pictures are enough to cause me to hesitate if I was shopping. Should I trust that these images are legitimate? If not then what form of evidence is acceptable?

Photos are from the day I inspected the frame before painting after full disassembly

 

[Waynemarlow]

My Nukeproof frames still on original factory bearings after 36000km over two years of constant use.

This is getting silly, 36000km thats what 3000 hrs if you could average 12kph which on an analogue is actually quite difficult to do. Thats 18 months solid of the two years, riding 40 hour a week. I'm impressed if you have.

Should I trust that these images are legitimate? If not then what form of evidence is acceptable?

A lot more images from more than just one frame I'm afraid to say. So far we have a lot of " wind " and no real links or actual evidence other than the 1 frame breakage from a rider and some piccies of the internal jointing seam over layer ( which actually doesn't take much of the loading ) having a couple of air bubbles ( looking at the photo I wouldn't be surprised if they are not air bubbles but excess silica filler to allow the jointing layer to be flatter ), no thats not ideal and would I be happy if it arrived at my door, probably not.

My E69 frame which arrived a couple of months ago was about 6 weeks from order, very painless transaction, a couple of questions over the new speed sensor they are using answered in a couple of days, all went together pretty easy, looked good as a composite layup. Bearings, I await over time to make a view.

 

[dazirl]

This is getting silly, 36000km thats what 3000 hrs if you could average 12kph which on an analogue is actually quite difficult to do. Thats 18 months solid of the two years, riding 40 hour a week. I'm impressed if you have.

A lot more images from more than just one frame I'm afraid to say. So far we have a lot of " wind " and no real links or actual evidence other than the 1 frame breakage from a rider and some piccies of the internal jointing seam over layer ( which actually doesn't take much of the loading ) having a couple of air bubbles ( looking at the photo I wouldn't be surprised if they are not air bubbles but excess silica filler to allow the jointing layer to be flatter ), no thats not ideal and would I be happy if it arrived at my door, probably not.

My E69 frame which arrived a couple of months ago was about 6 weeks from order, very painless transaction, a couple of questions over the new speed sensor they are using answered in a couple of days, all went together pretty easy, looked good as a composite layup. Bearings, I await over time to make a view.

The Nukeproof was a Bafang BBSHD conversion, I average 250-300km per week, that's 13000-15600km per year average speed was 20+kph. Even from my current m560 you can figure out the kind of distance I go, bikes on the road 9 weeks since it's been built with one week of waiting for bearings after the ones in the frame failing, over 2k ATM. guess about the air bubbles are also incorrect. They are indeed air pockets, they even pop flat then pop back up if you press against them.

 

[sandnap]

A lot more images from more than just one frame I'm afraid to say. So far we have a lot of " wind " and no real links or actual evidence other than the 1 frame breakage from a rider and some piccies of the internal jointing seam over layer ( which actually doesn't take much of the loading ) having a couple of air bubbles ( looking at the photo I wouldn't be surprised if they are not air bubbles but excess silica filler to allow the jointing layer to be flatter ), no thats not ideal and would I be happy if it arrived at my door, probably not.

I am not convinced by one photo that this is a widespread issue but even if ignore all of the evidence from other buyers the fact that they didn't warranty that one is enough for me to look elsewhere. I don't want to be the one in 10, 100, or 10000 with the questionable frame when there are competitors offering better support. We all decide where we draw lines.

P.S. I always consider the source and circumstances surrounding these claims. Some (but not all) people have unreasonable expectations.

 

[kaaskopf]

the guy landed his frame against a jump. his own words

sudden los of speed similar to a case. seems like cased close. any frame would break on a 9m jump and cased against other jump

some of you guys are real haters.
loctite your bolts and keep riding

i do agree with wayne tho,
1 reported frame break in the last 4 years doesnt prove much.

yeah the inside of your frame doesnt look nice and dealing with dengfu is like asking the devil for forgiveness-useless

i always tell people thag you need a good reseller that backs its products if you dealing in china in general,

for ebike stuff i only deal with chili shen from victory ebikes for this reason. yes i had some problems in the 20+ bikes i have build but all were taking care of within a respectable timeframe.

dealing with dengfu direct is shit, they are arrogant and do not listen but this doesnt make their frames shitty

 

[dazirl]

the guy landed his frame against a jump. his own words

sudden los of speed similar to a case. seems like cased close. any frame would break on a 9m jump and cased against other jump

some of you guys are real haters.
loctite your bolts and keep riding

i do agree with wayne tho,
1 reported frame break in the last 4 years doesnt prove much.

yeah the inside of your frame doesnt look nice and dealing with dengfu is like asking the devil for forgiveness-useless

i always tell people thag you need a good reseller that backs its products if you dealing in china in general,

for ebike stuff i only deal with chili shen from victory ebikes for this reason. yes i had some problems in the 20+ bikes i have build but all were taking care of within a respectable timeframe.

dealing with dengfu direct is shit, they are arrogant and do not listen but this doesnt make their frames shitty

You should prob search these forums of you think only one has broke. Wayne above even commented on a thread where there was two other broken Dengfu E10 frames but then claims in here it's only one frame...... both broke at the keyhole and their user said they wernt jumped and it's from normal usage. Think it was from September. That's now 5 E10's I know about in 4 months.

 

[Waynemarlow]

That's now 5 E10's I know about in 4 months.

Wheres the links or it didn’t happen, we need more than your hearsay to convince us. We are open to be convinced but as yet that is not the case.

Rather than continue to trash this thread, why not create a specific thread in this forum on your beliefs that all E10’s will break around the lock aperture area, it’s a tad unfair on the original thread starter ?

 

[sandnap]

Rather than continue to trash this thread, why not create a specific thread in this forum on your beliefs that all E10’s will break around the lock aperture area, it’s a tad unfair on the original thread starter ?

This should definitely be in a different thread. The joy of the build is on life support here . Sorry for my contributions @Zayd Proctor. I am definitely not trying to come across as a hater. I see both sides of this debate but I think we can all agree that getting good support is what matters above all else. Manufactures will make mistakes in engineering and manufacturing, it is the quality of their support that makes the difference. On a side note, the support available on this forum is one of the primary reasons why I went for a DIY, so yeah that helps . I have no idea how many E10's exist in the wild but I am sure there are a lot of them given it's early and continued popularity so broken frames are going to show up. Carbon fiber frames are fantastic until they are not regardless of the brand.

 

[Zayd Proctor]

Ok bois, back on track. I will start building soon, in the meantime, here are some photos.

This thing looks sick.

Pedals look good as well. Very smooth, no play.

No fancy concave design.

Three bearings.

Seems to be good quality. Has different density zones (some are harder, some are softer) like the legit 3D-printed saddles. I'll see if it's any good.

LOL

Rear wheel with Tannus insert (just so it can take the correct shape).

Yep, she needs a deep cleaning. I'm waiting for the bearings to arrive before taking it apart.

I checked, and all my frame bolts have 8nm laser etched. Thanks @dazirl for the report. Could anyone share the correct torque figures? Someone posted this on FB:

Are these the same for the E10?

 

[AIXVOLT]

Ok bois, back on track. I will start building soon, in the meantime, here are some photos.

This thing looks sick.
View attachment 151660

Pedals look good as well. Very smooth, no play.
View attachment 151661

No fancy concave design.
View attachment 151662 View attachment 151663 View attachment 151664 View attachment 151665

Three bearings.
View attachment 151666

View attachment 151667


View attachment 151668

Seems to be good quality. Has different density zones (some are harder, some are softer) like the legit 3D-printed saddles. I'll see if it's any good.
View attachment 151669 View attachment 151670 View attachment 151671


View attachment 151672

LOL
View attachment 151674


Rear wheel with Tannus insert (just so it can take the correct shape).
View attachment 151675

Yep, she needs a deep cleaning. I'm waiting for the bearings to arrive before taking it apart.
View attachment 151676


I checked, and all my frame bolts have 8nm laser etched. Thanks @dazirl for the report. Could anyone share the correct torque figures? Someone posted this on FB:

View attachment 151677

Are these the same for the E10?

It's worth getting in touch with the customer support. I built up an E18C last year- the technial support was surprisingly quick and helpful !!

 

[Zayd Proctor]

It's worth getting in touch with the customer support. I built up an E18C last year- the technial support was surprisingly quick and helpful !!

Chili Shen confirmed that the torques specs for the e82 are the same for the e10 (picture above).

A bunch of not-so-good updates:

I took apart the frame and removed the old bearings. Some were completely locked, but they returned to work after I pulled them out. I guess the puller unlocked them.

Anyway, I noticed that some of the bearing caps have grooves where they contact the inner race. I guess because they were rubbing against the locked bearings.

I can see two potential issues with this:
1. If the grooves are deep enough, the caps could end up rubbing against the bearing seal. So far, that does not seem to be happening.

I could sand the caps a bit to reduce or remove the groove.

2. The width of the cap is "reduced". But it's such a small change that I don't think it matters.

Chili Shen proposed a new set of bolts and caps for 28$ + 20$ shipping. I will get that if I decide to get a new motor from her so I can avoid paying the 20$ shipping.





The paint has seen better days:

Also, when removing the old paint protection film, some of the paint peeled off. How ironic!

I'll just have to cover that mess somehow. Maybe with a sticker. Or I might repaint the whole thing in the future, but I heard that's a PITA to do.



Is this normal? Should I be worried about this?

Lastly, I noticed a small crack under the top tube.

I will use my favorite tool to fix this: prayers.

Looks like it wasn't worth getting a used frame. The previous owner didn't care much for this bike. I will service the motor, and I expect to find some other parts that need replacing.

To top it all up, I received the bushings and the bearings both from the UK and had to pay an extra 35€ of custom fees. You guys really had to exit the EU, huh. Fun fact, shipping + customs for the bushings cost me as much as the product itself. In the future, I'll avoid buying from the UK if I can.

 

[Sayonara]

Oh boy... :|

 

[Waynemarlow]

I took apart the frame and removed the old bearings. Some were completely locked, but they returned to work after I pulled them out. I guess the puller unlocked them.

Not necessarily, more like the bearing are full of crud and rust, pop the face seals off and have a look.

I'll just have to cover that mess somehow. Maybe with a sticker. Or I might repaint the whole thing in the future, but I heard that's a PITA to do.

It may not have been Dengfu that painted the frame, a lot of the frames were bought bare and painted by the owners.

Is this normal? Should I be worried about this?

Something has spun to create a cutting motion, would I worry about it probably yes if we can see the foam insert. Most of the damage on the rear swing arm is chain damage from derailled chains, thats not normal but it happens. There's a lot of stone damage as well, again its pretty normal unless you protect the frame with say invisi film

Lastly, I noticed a small crack under the top tube.

Nice bit of impact damage, if the frame was at fault it would have crack extensions from the main damage.

To top it all up, I received the bushings and the bearings both from the UK and had to pay an extra 35€ of custom fees. You guys really had to exit the EU, huh. Fun fact, shipping + customs for the bushings cost me as much as the product itself. In the future, I'll avoid buying from the UK if I can.

Thats what happens when the EU wouldn't negotiate an honourable divorce with the worlds 6th largest trading nation, it ferks it up for everyone bar the politicians and lawyers.

At the end of the day you bought a second hand frame without doing much inspection, don't complain if you got it cheap.

 

[Zayd Proctor]

At the end of the day you bought a second hand frame without doing much inspection, don't complain if you got it cheap.

The reason I wrote all that is because this is my building thread, and I'm sharing everything related to that, not because I want to complain.
I got unlucky with the frame, and I'm a bit upset, I think that's understandable. Also, most of the stuff I pointed out wasn't visible without tearing everything apart, so there was no way for me to inspect things further.

In the end, everything is fixable, but, as I said, it was not worth buying a used frame. This is why I'm saying this:

Option 1, buying from Dengfu:
Frame + m560 + battery --> 2200€

Option 2, used:
Frame + m600 --> 800€
New bearings --> 70€
New bolt set --> 28€
New paint --> 200€ (don't know, guess)
Carbon repair --> 300€ (don't know, guess)
M560 --> 700€
Battery --> 400€

Total = 2500€. If I can sell the m600 for 300€ and if there is nothing that needs repairing on the m600, then total = 2200€.

Hopefully, the carbon doesn't need repairing, and I could do the painting myself. But that is a lot of work I was hoping to avoid doing, so it is still not worth it, imho.

Of course, if I can cover up the damage to the paint with stickers and I end up liking and keeping the m600 then that's a different story.

Something has spun to create a cutting motion,

I don't think that's it. That would have ripped the paint off. Maybe it is not clear from the photo because there is some dirt inside. It looks like a manufacturing defect to me. It's not deep so it will probably be fine.

Thats what happens when the EU wouldn't negotiate an honourable divorce with the worlds 6th largest trading nation, it ferks it up for everyone bar the politicians and lawyers.

Maybe you're right. Maybe the EU is to blame, it always is, right? I shouldn't have started this conversation. I was salty about the frame situation, and when I found out about the customs fees, I got a bit triggered, sorry about that.

 

[kaaskopf]

no need for any carbon repairs

the 'crack' you took a pic of looks like a small scratch. you will get many more when riding the bike and shouldnt affect anything if its not to deep

i have some carbon frames from a few years old and they all have marks deeper than this and still are fine

dengfu frames are famous for bad paint quality. does not adhere well. so pealing of any kind of stickers results in paint removal like you expierenced.


i have seen some dengfu chainstays with the exact same 'damage' looks like not enough filler was used before paint. if it was from damage you would have lost the paint as well, but you didnt so it looks like it was there before painting. my e10 has the same marks

these frames are made with extreme budget cuts in mind, thats why they are new like 700usd. this is the quality we all get, see other build threads

if you bothered by the damages just use a filler , sand and paint it
but it shouldnt affect the performance

seems like you are expecting to much of dengfu in terms of quality and expecting to much of a second hand frame..
all i see is a minor paint scratch and fucked up paint from removing a sticker


if it was my build on a second hand frame i would just build up the frame as it looks decent and replace all frame bearings to start with and maybe sand down the damaged paint and use some rattle cans to make it look pretty again


edit;
your lower chainstay looks fucked ?
did the guy bash the chain into it 1000 times ?
i know dengfu or chili shen sells that part seperatly if you need a replacement. its hard to tell the damage from the pic
i always protect the chainstays with some inner tube to prevent this exact damage. or use a good derailleur with clutch

i sold and bought some second hand carbon frames in the past and inspection is always important so you dont feel sad after

same for m600, i told you its an older engine but if it works it is still a great bike

goodluck with your build

 

[Zayd Proctor]

Thanks mate!

seems like you are expecting to much of dengfu in terms of quality and expecting to much of a second hand frame..
all i see is a minor paint scratch and fucked up paint from removing a sticker

To be clear, I'm not posting this to complain. I'm posting this to get feedback from someone with more experience. I don't care about the paint on the chainstay; I saw that when I bought the frame. It's not that visible unless you look for it, and the chainstay protector will cover some of it. And I don't care about minor manufacturing defects as long as they don't affect the performance or safety of the bike. But, like as said, I have no idea if that's the case unless I ask you guys.

I'm a little upset about the paint peeling off because now the bike looks like shit. But I didn't want to sound too dramatic. I know it's fixable. I'll get it done.

the 'crack' you took a pic of looks like a small scratch.

I don't think that's a scratch because when I press on it with my finger, it's a bit soft, and that small area bends a little. What I want to know is if this kind of damage usually spreads out and if I should repair it to prevent it from spreading.

What do you think about the bearing caps? Should they be replaced?