New Nicolai with Pinion gearbox announced

[TonTonUB]

Oh, i forgot to mention ... There is at least 2 downsides, to this marvel of a bike.
Minor downside : no wireless shifting ? I'm not fan at all of the 'global connect band aid mantra', but i think it's a big concern.
MAJOR DOWNSIDE : no test bike in France ! Especially in Provence, around 'les terres noires' ? Just sayin ...

Oh, may i add a bonus downside ? The 'on bar' remote / mini screen : it really needs to sit on toptube.

All in all, i can't keep waiting to test one, or even better : to grab one

As an ultimate bonus (even if i know it's unsustainable, for many brands), the possibility to choose components (at least fork, shock, maybe wheels / brake / seatpost) would be incredible. Sadly, it's far too much ressources consuming for the brand itself.
Or maybe proceed by 'batch', like does Crestline ? A Fox batch, for fox-lovers ... then a RS batch, for Rockshoxx-lovers ... and so on.

 

[DirkWisely]

1000€ for shipping to the US, ouch

Do you know if you knock off the 19% VAT from the listed price? And is there an import duty?

 

[d3ftone]

Do you know if you knock off the 19% VAT from the listed price? And is there an import duty?

Yes, no VAT, not sure about import duty

 

[TonTonUB]

I just checked (for the 524854th times ) the saturn 16 mgu spreadsheet. After choosing size, battery capacity etc, i checked the bike sheet, again and again, and again, and ... Shock, seatpost and brakes are missing, in the description.
Browser issue maybe ? Or stock issue ?

My finger is so near from the 'order now' button ... I'm so weak

EDIT i'd also need a date for the swap from 720 to 800Wh FIT battery. I don't need 1K Wh, but 800 is a nice number .. isn't it ?

 

[DirkWisely]

I just checked (for the 524854th times ) the saturn 16 mgu spreadsheet. After choosing size, battery capacity etc, i checked the bike sheet, again and again, and again, and ... Shock, seatpost and brakes are missing, in the description.
Browser issue maybe ? Or stock issue ?

My finger is so near from the 'order now' button ... I'm so weak

EDIT i'd also need a date for the swap from 720 to 800Wh FIT battery. I don't need 1K Wh, but 800 is a nice number .. isn't it ?

Did you happen to find out if you can swap between the big and small battery? I wonder if the frame is identical.

 

[tooFATtoRIDE]

Did you happen to find out if you can swap between the big and small battery? I wonder if the frame is identical.

You can swap between these two batteries. The frame is identical. Mounting points, the lock etc are the same for both batteries.

 

[Onetime]

Did you happen to find out if you can swap between the big and small battery? I wonder if the frame is identical.

It’s the same frame. The bigger battery shows as a bulge on the bottom and the smaller battery is flat along the bottom.

 

[d3ftone]

DSM-DS-ULH-FR9-Spacer 10mm - SATURN - Baugruppe, schwarz eloxiert, 35,00 €

2 Stk + 4x DIN 912 M5x30mm - SAT14

www.nicolai-bicycles.com

Looks like this is the mutator (10mm) if you want to run a 27.5 rear.

 

[slickrock]

Did I hear correctly that a 65mm stroke shock isn't a possibility cause the belt?

To the extent that changing the shock stroke is being done to increase travel, well then yes, it appears the current Nicolai design entail too large of belt loop size for their tensioner (which BTW, is an excellent design and far better than Pinions' own tensioner) to properly take up slack when unweighted. If the bike had a an adjustable horizontal slider rear axle, that would afford lengthening chain-stay length to either take up some of the belt slack or shortening to allow a belt size reduction. This is fact is the design approach used by Nicolai’s own GT1 EBOXX with a Gates belt/Rohloff hub.

Another thing worth mentioning is that MGU belt-drive transmissions don’t play well the pervasive VPP and DW-Link (but not DW6) suspension designs, due to the unified rear triangle rendering impossible the ability to thread the belt loop thru without incorporating a removable seat stay or chain stay strut to make it work. While not the end of the world, it does add cost, complexity, and rigidity loss.

It’s great that Nicolai does not have this problem because it uses the venerable Horst-Link design. Of course, any elevated chain stay design would even better (e.g. Orange, Pole, etc.).

 

[Dirtnvert]

An elevated chainstay on the swingarm would solve the belt app

 

[TonTonUB]

I'm unable to identify the pedals on the bike, presented by Sir Aston.
If anyone knows which they are : thank you !
I actually use pedal innovations catalyst EVO, and like them. But they are actually no more distributed / available in Europe. And i need the longest flat pedals i can find. On the 5 videos, the flat pedals on the Nicolai Saturn look pretty long, don't they ?

EDIT : with the 800Wh battery, i'd be happy to put some WP suspension by DVO (on the Nicolai Saturn). But they are not available for aftermarket, don't they ?

 

[d3ftone]

Responses from Nicolai

In regards to what rear wheel size -
"Since we program the bike for a specific wheel size, you need to decide before purchase whether the bike will be a 29er or a mixed wheels bike. Switching between sizes is not easily possible."

In regards to running a 65mm stroke shock -
"You can ride the bike with a 65 mm"

 

[DirkWisely]

Responses from Nicolai

In regards to what rear wheel size -
"Since we program the bike for a specific wheel size, you need to decide before purchase whether the bike will be a 29er or a mixed wheels bike. Switching between sizes is not easily possible."

In regards to running a 65mm stroke shock -
"You can ride the bike with a 65 mm"

Good to know.

Has anyone (or Nicolai themselves) done any kind of range testing? I'm curious to know how the 750WH version compares in range potential to my 700wh Levo. I know belts are less efficient than chains under optimal conditions, but there's nuance to that, and the motor/battery efficiency also are different.

 

[TonTonUB]

The only realy downsize of this marvel of a bike ? There is no test bike around my location, in France
BTW, i guess it saved me from insta-buy

 

[madre]

Good to know.

Has anyone (or Nicolai themselves) done any kind of range testing? I'm curious to know how the 750WH version compares in range potential to my 700wh Levo. I know belts are less efficient than chains under optimal conditions, but there's nuance to that, and the motor/battery efficiency also are different.

There is no 750 WH Batterie. They have an 720 and an 960 which are in a runnig change . The 720 will be an 800 and the 960 an 1060 ( same size same weight new cells )

 

[DirkWisely]

There is no 750 WH Batterie. They have an 720 and an 960 which are in a runnig change . The 720 will be an 800 and the 960 an 1060 ( same size same weight new cells )

Good to know. Hopefully someone actually puts out some info on range. Doesn't seem to be anything on the internet thus far.

 

[madre]

Good to know. Hopefully someone actually puts out some info on range. Doesn't seem to be anything on the internet thus far.

There is a test in a German e-bike magazine, but it was carried out with the Simplon Kago Carbon Pinion on a flat bike tour with 52 km 110 m. It was a comparison of different motor systems with relatively the same wattage output by the rider. I am attaching a picture of the table, but I don't know if you can make any sense of it if you don't speak German.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

GPT Translated

 

[Rando_12345]

Nice find! Hype back up to 100% for the pinion!!

I ride a giant with an 800Wh battery and was blown away on group rides when my mates on 720Wh Bosch systems were climbing faster and had more range than me.

A Bosch with 800Wh can do 2000m of climbing in race mode with a light fit rider, so if the pinion is pretty much the same efficiency and comes with a 1060Wh battery you could easily do 2600m of climbing in the highest mode. Bonkers

 

[DirkWisely]

That's great info, thanks! Any chance when you get your Saturn you can do a noise comparison with some other motors?

 

[madre]

FIT updated there shop and have an excpected availibility date for the upgraded 1060 and 800 Watt Batterie

 

[DirkWisely]

So is the expectation that Saturns will come with that battery after that date?

 

[rastablondi]

Update: my bike arrived on Monday
I had a 50km/600hm ride on the same day.
In one word: unbelievable!
I love it so much! It loves gravel, it is so stable in downhill, and powerful in uphill. It is really a new world of biking, for me.

One photo attached.
See more photos here:
(german ebike forum)
Nicolai Saturn 16 MGU

I have my summer vacation in Austria and Italy in the next 2 weeks. A few heightmeters Uphill/Downhill are planned there. Maybe I will report more then, especially about the battery range and my experience with this lovely bike.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Update: my bike arrived in Monday
I had a 50km/600hm ride in the same day. In one word: unbelievable
I love it so much! It loves gravel, it is so stable in downhill, powerful uphill. It is really a new world of biking, for me.

One photo attached.
See more photos here:
(german ebike forum)
Nicolai Saturn 16 MGU

I have my summer vacation in Austria and Italy the next 2 weeks. A few heightmeters Uphill/Downhill are planned there. Maybe I will report more then, especially about the battery range and my experience with this lovely bike.

View attachment 145273

Congrats. Looks amazing!

 

[TonTonUB]

I wonder if Nicolai is gonna update their G1 Eboxx QLF platform with the Pinion MGU, or if they will keep it to a unique frame / geo / kinematics ?
Anyways, the question is not 'will i buy one', but 'when'.

 

[rastablondi]

Today I had a morning ride in the bavarian alps.

My first experience with the range of the bike, equipped with 960Ah battery:

Ride Start: 84%
30km / 800hm / 1Std 34min
Ride Stop: 31%

I did most of the way in FLEX mode and only the steepest parts in FLY mode.
I guess I did 90% in FLEX and 10% in FLY.

 

[tooFATtoRIDE]

Update: my bike arrived on Monday
I had a 50km/600hm ride on the same day.
In one word: unbelievable!
I love it so much! It loves gravel, it is so stable in downhill, and powerful in uphill. It is really a new world of biking, for me.

One photo attached.
See more photos here:
(german ebike forum)
Nicolai Saturn 16 MGU

In your posts on the German ebike forum you kindly posted more pictures, including this one:

Could kindly take more detailed pictures please? I am interested in seeing how Nicolai designed the rear sprocket to go without the stubber.

Thank you.

 

[Rando_12345]

Today I had a morning ride in the bavarian alps.

My first experience with the range of the bike, equipped with 960Ah battery:

Ride Start: 84%
30km / 800hm / 1Std 34min
Ride Stop: 31%

I did most of the way in FLEX mode and only the steepest parts in FLY mode.
I guess I did 90% in FLEX and 10% in FLY.

View attachment 145414

Extremely rude question so my apologies in advance, what weight are you and how fit do you consider yourself?

Obviously very hard to estimate accurately, but I would have expected a bit more range than the stats you reported.

 

[Dirtnvert]

Eddy current would be one of the most battery draining tires as well, good or bad. Looks like a 2.6 as well?
Im also curios on the riders weight?

 

[rastablondi]

Extremely rude question so my apologies in advance, what weight are you and how fit do you consider yourself?

Obviously very hard to estimate accurately, but I would have expected a bit more range than the stats you reported.

That's fine for me no worries.
I am 46, approximately 90kg. My fitness is medium, what I would like to call it. I run once a week, slowly. And I have at least one bike ride per week. Normally not in very high intense or extreme sportive. But I love to run and bike in every weather conditions and on all surfaces and areas and I am a all-season runner and biker.

The S16MGU is my first EBike.
I own a 28" Cross Bike with a powermeter for regular training purpose, and a 26" Trail Bike, plus additionally a 2002 Nicolai Helius CC for fun rides on my hometrails.

So far about myself

What I felt during the mentioned ride:
On normal street surface the (2.6 Eddy Current) tires roll quite good. But on gravel forest roads it rolls very bad. This leads to a lot of traction, for sure. What was perfect for the steepest parts. But biking with lower E-modes on gravel road was quite exhausting.
Based on my current condition and the unknown terrain (will the battery last?), and due to the fact that I am a EBike rookie, maybe the ride was more inefficient. But I liked it in the way I did it.

A more sportive Person, well known EBiker and equipped with other tires might save more battery.