Yeah, I would also get raw but with the 720 battery. I’d want to use my current wheelset, but it’s got a XD. I suppose I could swap it for an HG hub driver though.
New Nicolai with Pinion gearbox announced
- Thread starter MOG
- Start date
slickrock
Active member
Pinion has entered the motor domain, complete with battery tech, controllers, firmware, etc. To me that's the big jump, especially for a small outfit like Pinion. They do know internal gears all right, but L-ion battery certification is steep in the States and well as a needed solid support network, all very capital intensive, and all of which will take time compared to other countries riding on the EU consortium.
It would be so much easier for Bosch to do us a solid and start sporting gears on their motors. They must be thinking about it, dabbling with internal geared hubs (3X3 in this case) and Gates setups, and they have no transmission legacy to protect like Shimano and SRAM. For those who can't wait, lot's of us must still wait.
tooFATtoRIDE
Active member
Eurobike 2024 should be fun too: ZF to present a new e-bike drive system
Pinion might be a small outfit but is owned by Bombardier which certainly is not (turnover about $8 billion).
tooFATtoRIDE
Active member
Madmountainman
Member
It's a good job i'm still running 11 speed HG then, as my wheels will swap straight over!
sethimus
Member
that i would research again
tooFATtoRIDE
Active member
tooFATtoRIDE
Active member
tooFATtoRIDE
Active member
Not speaking specifically about Aston MTB but I believe there is always some sort of behind the scenes type of relationship that might influence the words that are said. It is good for business
I could also be totally wrong here and the noise issue has been rectified somehow.
slickrock
Active member
Didn't realize this this development since 2022, so stand corrected. At least Pinion has a chance then if cash infusion could sustain over a product launch growth cycle needed to penetrate this new market. IGH and gearboxes still this day have been incredibly niche, whereas ebike motors are ubiquitous. Widespread adoption will mostly like come from the motor/battery side. Hopefully by a company with a $700 billion market cap.
DirkWisely
New Member
Is it possible to buy Nicolai products in the USA?
Yes, and no. They’re available as long as it’s not with a Pinion MGU. Pinion batteries are not yet certified in the US. Other Nicolai bikes are available in the US.
tooFATtoRIDE
Active member
On the topic of batteries, and please excuse my total lack of understanding, I wanted to ask this: are the batteries locked with the engine manufacturer? I.e. Bosch Gen 4 will only work with the Bosch battery?
What I mean here is whether, for example, a Bosch battery could work with the Pinion system? Or could a non-FIT battery work with the FIT system? For the purpose of this discussion let's assume that the shape and mounting/physical locking mechanism of the battery is irrelevant.
What I mean here is whether, for example, a Bosch battery could work with the Pinion system? Or could a non-FIT battery work with the FIT system? For the purpose of this discussion let's assume that the shape and mounting/physical locking mechanism of the battery is irrelevant.
In general yes.
For some older motors there are 3rd party batteries available but not for any of the newer models.
Batteries on e-bikes use quite different specs by manufacturer - voltage is one spec that might differ. Also the BMS talks to the motor and therefore needs a compatible protocol. Bosch even uses non compatible batteries for different motor generations.
Last but not least the battery has to fit the frame.
tooFATtoRIDE
Active member
Damn....
I have Nicolai Saturn 16 MGU order in and confirmed, build week 30 (end of July)
My build:
- Intend Flash 170/180mm fork
- MX Wheelset with Nicolai mutator
- Intend Hover shock
- Hope Tech4 V4 Brakes
My build:
- Intend Flash 170/180mm fork
- MX Wheelset with Nicolai mutator
- Intend Hover shock
- Hope Tech4 V4 Brakes
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tooFATtoRIDE
Active member
wooow, some serious coin here...
That’s going to be a sick build. Can’t wait to hear how it performs with intend suspension. German frame, suspension, motor and battery too with Hope brakes, so sweet! I’m super jealous!
MrSimmo
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
I'm waiting for the derestriction kit! That and a 170/180 or 180/180 would be the bike to do it all for me.
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Here's a quick look inside the Pinon MGU:
www.youtube.com
I wonder why they don't use more helical cut gears (sloped teeth rather than straight cut) inside these? There's one visible in the top right, but the remainder look to be straight. It'd certainly cut down on noise with helical!
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.
www.youtube.com
I wonder why they don't use more helical cut gears (sloped teeth rather than straight cut) inside these? There's one visible in the top right, but the remainder look to be straight. It'd certainly cut down on noise with helical!
tooFATtoRIDE
Active member
One bike to rule them all
MrSimmo
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Strength maybe? - Just a guess, reminds me of when we used to build JDM big turbo cars back in the day, we used to swap out helical's for straight cut gearboxes to handle the increase in power we were delivering with the turbos.Here's a quick look inside the Pinon MGU:
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.
I wonder why they don't use more helical cut gears (sloped teeth rather than straight cut) inside these? There's one visible in the top right, but the remainder look to be straight. It'd certainly cut down on noise with helical!
View attachment 142260
Could be, but if the car before your swap used helical, surely they're strong enough for a bike? I wonder if it's just a means of reducing cost, whereby the straight cuts are cheaper to produce? Risky though when people are 'a bit' sensitive to motor noise
The helical gears do introduce a side load in the direction of the gear shaft when they're running, could be that? Then perhaps they needed to use herringbone to avoid that!
MrSimmo
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Thats a good point, there are more issues with side forces on helical gears iirc so that could be it. The cost factor as well as you say probably plays a part as wellCould be, but if the car before your swap used helical, surely they're strong enough for a bike? I wonder if it's just a means of reducing cost, whereby the straight cuts are cheaper to produce? Risky though when people are 'a bit' sensitive to motor noise
The helical gears do introduce a side load in the direction of the gear shaft when they're running, could be that? Then perhaps they needed to use herringbone to avoid that!
View attachment 142261
It’s not for strength, it’s for more horse power. Straight cut gears are more efficient and make more power at the expense of noise.
Were you able to order to the UK (last I heard from Nicolai was that this was not yet possible, and the website lists UK shipping at €10k
)?
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