New Nicolai with Pinion gearbox announced

[Suns_PSD]

Gearboxes are less efficienct than a cassette, and there doesn't appear to be any technology that will change this. They spin an entire gear cluster, in oil, the entire time and this uses extra watts.

If this gearbox is on a pedal bike, or on an e-bike, isn't going to change this fact.

Then he's a 90 kg rider, on a heavy bike, with slow rolling tires, so the result is predictable.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

25.47 KG

 

[TheSnowShark]

Wow..

@Rob Rides EMTB

.. weight level could you give us details of the elements, and in particular the suspensions ?

I love it

 

[Onetime]

Looks awesome Rob! Anxious to hear how it rides with the intend suspension!

 

[DirkWisely]

What crank lengths does it come with?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

What crank lengths does it come with?

165mm

 

[DirkWisely]

165mm

You gonna stick with that? Seems fairly long, but then again you're pretty tall.

 

[shakazulu12]

25.47 KG

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[GregoryP]

25.47 KG

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When I first saw the pictures I thought it was an XL frame not a Large...think I need to swing a leg over one before I look to buy.

 

[Gandalf]

@Gandalf also have both , the Nicolai Pinion MGU and the Pole Voima . Maybe he can give a Feedback ?

I will do this later, maybe an Saturday


View attachment IMG_0603.jpeg

 

[Nobrks]

When I first saw the pictures I thought it was an XL frame not a Large...think I need to swing a leg over one before I look to buy.

Saturn 16 - Small is simular to most brands Large.
And I need XS, but its not available

 

[kntr]

25.47 KG

View attachment 146297

Is that with pedals? There are no pedals in the built pic.
Also, why did you take the motor out?

 

[Suns_PSD]

Also Rob, aren't you sponsored by Schwalbe?!

I get the idea of the gearbox transmission, but I prefer the idea of a robust Linkglide myself as I feel the compromises are more ideal.

 

[Onetime]

Also Rob, aren't you sponsored by Schwalbe?!

I get the idea of the gearbox transmission, but I prefer the idea of a robust Linkglide myself as I feel the compromises are more ideal.

What compromises? A gearbox and belt drive have virtually 0 maintenance, (only an oil change once a year) unsprung weight is moved from the rear wheel to the BB. So better suspension and weight balance , no derailleur exposed to break, no chain, cassette or chainring to wear out and replace. Also no chain slap/noise. All win/win in my book.

 

[Rando_12345]

What compromises? A gearbox and belt drive have virtually 0 maintenance, (only an oil change once a year) unsprung weight is moved from the rear wheel to the BB. So better suspension and weight balance , no derailleur exposed to break, no chain, cassette or chainring to wear out and replace. Also no chain slap/noise. All win/win in my book.

I'm sold on gearboxes, but there are always compromises:

• Poor/no shifting under load
• Additional transmission losses
• More parts to go wrong within an already very unreliable system (I mean ebike motors as a whole, not pinion specifically)
• Heavier system weight
• Possible kinematics and geo constraints (e g. The Nicolai having a very long chainstay but limited to 160mm rear)

 

[DirkWisely]

"additional transmission losses"

I forget where I saw this, so take it with a grain of salt, but a gearbox doesn't necessarily underperform a chain in real world conditions. A clean, well lubed chain? Yep, it wins. But what about a chain that's all mucked up from being ridden? Belts self clean.

 

[TheSnowShark]

I'm sold on gearboxes, but there are always compromises:

• Poor/no shifting under load

Yet I have read the opposite about this Pinion gearbox ?!

 

[Rando_12345]

To be clear, I have no real world experience with this, just repeating the usual talking points you see on these threads. Personally, I'm convinced by the MGU positives, but will most likely wait for a cheaper and less extreme geo implementation.

 

[Onetime]

To be clear, I have no real world experience with this, just repeating the usual talking points you see on these threads. Personally, I'm convinced by the MGU positives, but will most likely wait for a cheaper and less extreme geo implementation.

I like the geo, I just wish it had more travel.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Also Rob, aren't you sponsored by Schwalbe?!

I get the idea of the gearbox transmission, but I prefer the idea of a robust Linkglide myself as I feel the compromises are more ideal.

Not sponsored by Schwalbe! Haven’t used their tyres in a while either tbh (apart from a small test on the new radial ones)

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I'm sold on gearboxes, but there are always compromises:

• Poor/no shifting under load
• Additional transmission losses
• More parts to go wrong within an already very unreliable system (I mean ebike motors as a whole, not pinion specifically)
• Heavier system weight
• Possible kinematics and geo constraints (e g. The Nicolai having a very long chainstay but limited to 160mm rear)

I believe shifting under load is fine. I’ll let you know though. These are other benefits with shifting, such as shifting at a standstill, whilst coasting as well as general gearbox benefits, like extremely low maintenance, zero setup faff, no cables or gears to index, no screws to mess around with etc etc.

There’s way more clearance out the back and far less risk for hitting rocks or logs, like there is with a derailleur hanging 6cm from the ground (on a mullet bike).

Transmission losses may be a thing, but I think on an ebike with 160Nm in gears 1-4 and good power everywhere else, this is a minimal downside and virtually imperceptible to most users.

Parts to go wrong is a concern. I hope this system is reliable! That’s part of why I’d like to test it. Especially over a dirty wet British winter - I’d like to try it in the worst of conditions. I’m looking forward to not having to degrease, clean and lube a chain though!

The new Nicolai isn’t that wild at all - the geo is standard enduro geo really. Mine has a 170 fork, 63.5 head angle, mullet, 455 chainstay, yes the wheelbase and front centre is longer than usual bikes, but they do so many sizes they will likely fit most riders

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Rob Hancill on Instagram: "Ebike of the future ☺️ @nicolai.bikes @pinion.eu @oquo.wheels @conti_mtb @intend_bc @peatysproducts"

2,916 likes, 70 comments - robridesemtb on September 4, 2024: "Ebike of the future ☺️ @nicolai.bikes @pinion.eu @oquo.wheels @conti_mtb @intend_bc @peatysproducts".

www.instagram.com

 

[Rando_12345]

Looking forward to the videos, again I'm playing devils advocate in my previous post!

On the geo: didn't someone just post that the chainstay was 473mm on theirs? Can't find the post and am worried I have gone delerious? (ignore this)
I'm a "normal" sized guy at 5'10, the size S would be perfect for me, but it would be the longest wheelbase bike I have ever owned despite riding L sized frame usually.

For the transmission losses, I am mostly thinking impact on range, as a 1060Wh battery would basically be my perfect bike as I target 2200m to 2600m of climbing on big days in full power (using 2 batteries on my current bike). So really looking forward to a range test/estimate from you or sam's bikes who tends to do those types of videos regularly.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

On the geo: didn't someone just post that the chainstay was 473mm on theirs?

That was me. But I measured it wrong . I measured it with the packing spacer - the actual measurement is 455 on my MX bike.

I agree about range. This is my worry too. Usually I can get about 1600m (ish) on my Bosch bike with 750 battery using a mix of eMTB, Tour+ and Turbo. I hope to be able to get similar.

There’s a new 800Wh battery coming in December that I’ll purchase. It’s the exact same 3.8KG weight as the 720Wh, but increases capacity (like the 1060Wh you mention)

 

[Zimmerframe]

 

[TorAtle]

Interesting bike with a super interesting motor/gearbox. On my short test ride with the MGU (different bike) I thought it was embarrassingly loud with unpolished gear changes. The advantages of the system are so huge that I hope the sound is different in the Nicolai frame (and other frames) than in the Zettler I rode. Although I was also disappointed with the shifting I guess it can be improved with software updates. So still hopeful I can be tempted to buy one of the coming MGU bikes.

Hope that the @Rob209 Nicolai YT review will considerably cover the sound characteristics of the MGU - which is different to every other motor out there due to the gearbox design.

 

[Paulquattro]

How long is the Headtube ?
From the pictures it looks to long for DC forks if the frame is rated for them anyway not that this normally stops me

 

[Gandalf]

How long is the Headtube ?
From the pictures it looks to long for DC forks if the frame is rated for them anyway not that this normally stops me

SATURN 16 MGU - 2025 - Tech-Sheet

docs.google.com

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Overrun update coming soon (from Pinion Instagram)

"Stefan, our head of software development, took on the elite race at the E-Bike World Championships and is already excited for what’s coming next!

With Pinion Pre.Select and the all new overrun features rolling out to all MGU-equipped bikes in the coming weeks, tackling technical uphills is getting more easy.

Full automatic mode is part of this feature and will give you the opportunity to select a fully automated shifting experience.

Stefan can’t wait to bring these new advancements to life on every ride. Stay tuned, the future of e-bike performance is just around the corner! "

 

[Gandalf]

@Gandalf also have both , the Nicolai Pinion MGU and the Pole Voima . Maybe he can give a Feedback ?

@GregoryP
Both bikes are great by my standards, the Voima is a bit more enduro-oriented and extremely cool in the bike park.
Both can be used for touring (Stoneman), although I currently like the Nicolai a little better for longer excursions with my wife on forest trails.
I haven't compared the geometry that closely yet
I wouldn't give either of them away
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