Dengfu E22 Frame Thread

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Well. The motor arrived today at 6pm. The delivery guy looked strung-out. Poor guy. Working for such a shit company.

hallelujah
I know that you've been patiently waiting bram.biesiekierski.
Fingers crossed, the battery shouldn't be far behind

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Hi all, new here.

Thanks to this thread I’m starting to build my E22 soon.

I first ordered UART M620 48 V but sadly I got CANBUS version instead. It seems that seller list UART models but can’t provide them, since Bafang apparently doesn’t make them anymore. There is also CANBUS M620 52 V model existing. Since I apparently can’t get UART anymore I was wondering should it try to change my 48 V to 52 V model? Or can you still use 52 V on 48 V CANBUS system? Is it even worth the hassle to try to get seller to change my 48 V to 52 V model? I don’t have any battery yet.

Thank you!

Apologies for the delay Jallu and welcome.

I'll be honest with you, I'm liaising with someone who is on the verge of fully mastering the CANBus protocol M620. His intention is to give the same level of adjustability as the UART protocol M620s.

But in answer to your question, essentially it is the same motor. Only the firmware is different on the 52v compared to the 48v.

I'm somewhat reluctant to advise many users of bafang (nowadays) to invest in the BESET tool for their CANBus protocol motors. But I assure you Jallu, their is light and the end of the tunnel

 

[Cigales]

Hi all, new here.

Thanks to this thread I’m starting to build my E22 soon.

I first ordered UART M620 48 V but sadly I got CANBUS version instead. It seems that seller list UART models but can’t provide them, since Bafang apparently doesn’t make them anymore. There is also CANBUS M620 52 V model existing. Since I apparently can’t get UART anymore I was wondering should it try to change my 48 V to 52 V model? Or can you still use 52 V on 48 V CANBUS system? Is it even worth the hassle to try to get seller to change my 48 V to 52 V model? I don’t have any battery yet.

Thank you!

Hi, where did you order the UART Bafang M620 from?
I'm very interrested as I would prefer to get an UART than a CANbus as I would like to have a EggRider display (which only works for UART, at least for the moment.)

 

[Cigales]

Apologies for the delay Jallu and welcome.

I'll be honest with you, I'm liaising with someone who is on the verge of fully mastering the CANBus protocol M620. His intention is to give the same level of adjustability as the UART protocol M620s.

But in answer to your question, essentially it is the same motor. Only the firmware is different on the 52v compared to the 48v.

I'm somewhat reluctant to advise many users of bafang (nowadays) to invest in the BESET tool for their CANBus protocol motors. But I assure you Jallu, their is light and the end of the tunnel

Interesting post
Can't wait to hear more about this !


@Neeko DeVinchi
Can you confirm me that both the E10 and the E22 Dengfu frames are compatible with the Bafang M620 motor?

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Interesting post
Can't wait to hear more about this !


@Neeko DeVinchi
Can you confirm me that both the E10 and the E22 Dengfu frames are compatible with the Bafang M620 motor?

Hi Cigales, only the E22 is compatible with the M620. The E10 is compatible with either the M500/M600/M510.

Batteries which both frames use are the same amongst other pieces such as rear axle, bearings, linkage, shock bushes & mech hanger.

Depending on the variant of the E10 frame, cable guide ports on the headtube will differ (along with the onboard charging port location).

I'll cover this in more detail in due course

 

[Cigales]

Ok thanks for the reply. I'm happy I asked.

 

[Jallu]

Apologies for the delay Jallu and welcome.

I'll be honest with you, I'm liaising with someone who is on the verge of fully mastering the CANBus protocol M620. His intention is to give the same level of adjustability as the UART protocol M620s.

But in answer to your question, essentially it is the same motor. Only the firmware is different on the 52v compared to the 48v.

I'm somewhat reluctant to advise many users of bafang (nowadays) to invest in the BESET tool for their CANBus protocol motors. But I assure you Jallu, their is light and the end of the tunnel
View attachment 89323

Thank you for your kind help Neeko, you're an absolute legend!

I thought that they could be the same, good to hear that’s the case! Looking forward to the day that CANBus can be fully cracked. Time to invest in BESST tool then. I currently don’t even know what wheel size is set for my M620 CANBus, but I look into it.

Hi, where did you order the UART Bafang M620 from?
I'm very interrested as I would prefer to get an UART than a CANbus as I would like to have a EggRider display (which only works for UART, at least for the moment.)

Sorry if I was a bit unclear, I’m not a native English speaker, so I can be a bit unclear / make mistakes.

I didn’t get UART from the seller. It was on AliExpress. I highly recommend that you contact any seller that claims selling UART M620 before buying and ensure that they really are selling UART motor.




I did some more research concerning 48 V and 52 V batteries. It seems, or I can’t find anything better, that default / stock batteries that fit in the E22 frame are 52 V and 15 Ah or 48 V and 17.5 Ah. So, using 48 V should give me better Wh, (840 Wh on 48 V and 780 Wh on 52 V) correct? How about diy batteries, is there a way to get even more Wh? Do diy batteries in CANBus need special BMS?

Thanks again!

 

[Chrisnow]

Hi I got a question about mounting dpx2 damper to your frame. Have you received apropriate set of spacers. I have just received my fox and it is totaly loose in the frame
thanks

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Hi I got a question about mounting dpx2 damper to your frame. Have you received apropriate set of spacers. I have just received my fox and it is totaly loose in the frame
thanks

Hi Chrisnow,
I suspect that you are attempting to use the bushes included with the frame to mount Fox DPX2. Please note, that the stock bushes are specific for Rockshox rear shock eyelets.
Please reach out to @Offset for guidance.

Shock Bushings | Dengfu E10

Upgrade your Dengfu E10 with our Shock Bushing kit. Made in the UK. Worldwide Shipping.

www.offsetbushings.com

If by chance you do have the correct bushes for the DPX2 shock and are experiencing play in the frame, please reach out to me and I'll be happy to talk you through where (in what places) to apply grease and blue thread lock

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Apologies for the delay @Jallu.
You are correct. The 48v battery (in terms of watt hours) is greater than the 52v. However please understand that by increasing the voltage of a battery pack, you are increasing the power flow. Thus, increasing the efficiency as the amps don't need to be as high to compensate for discharge.

I'm still calculating whether the range is better with either the 52v15amp vs 48v17.5amp. The performance is better due to the efficiency.

But I'll be playing around with gear ratio courtesy of the Christini Spider adapter, which allows the use of a 32t chainring.

I'll share my findings if it assists others. But @Mabman has been using both the E22 with both a 52v battery and the Christini spider adapter.

As for building a battery. Yes, it is possible. However, this particular frame/battery design uses a switch which activates the BMS within the battery.
The above video should elaborate on this further.

If you consider building your own battery, I would reccomend removing the battery mounting hardware and fabricating something which would work with a DIY battery and use Anderson connectors

 

[Mabman]

Main reason for me to spec the Christini adapter, keep in mind there are two offset offerings and I got the greater one, was to be able to use a smaller than 40t chainring and ultimately ended up with a 36t and 11/50 cassette which I have been happy with. Gave a bit better chainline in the 11t also but a loss of top end which I don't mind as most of my riding it off piste. I have recently abandoned my stock SRAM GX 12 spd in favor of a cheap Sensah 11spd steel setup that is working out well it seems but only have a few hundred miles on it so far. Toasted the GX in less than a thousand miles and wanted an option that was cheaper if I was going to be going through drives that fast. The torque of the M620 is just more than bicycle rated components are meant to handle on a consistent basis I feel. I would love it if someone came out with an overbuilt cassette/derailleur/chain combo.....

I have written above on my thoughts on the stock 48v 840wh 18650 cell 30A BMS and how I felt it was not up to par. After the last 4 years of good success with 21700 cell batteries I speced replacements in both 48v 720wh and 52v 780wh standard case batteries and from my experience both outperform the stock one in both power, especially approaching the LVC and range. The 52v is snappier out of the gate which is why I use it as my daily battery and have the 48v in reserve for longer rides.

There was a fellow on here recently that built a large wh battery that was in two parts out of 2170 cells IIRC and that was very attractive to me especially as you would have the option to just run one battery for shorter rides also to shave some weight, but frankly you really don't notice the weight on an E22 from my experience other than at speeds less than 1kmh and trying to lift it over or onto something.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Got the frame back from the painter. Here's a quick sneak peek. This photo in the artificial light doesn't really do it justice. Out in the sunshine it really pops.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

More pics

 

[RAW76]

Nice paint job Bram..how much did it cost to have it painted?

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Nice paint job Bram..how much did it cost to have it painted?

AUD $350.

Equal to about USD $250, or EU €230, or £200

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Can someone tell me about shift sensors and brake sensors? Are they compatible with the m620. Will I need to get these? Is it worth it?

Do they just plug into the connector for the throttle, via a Y piece?

 

[Chrisnow]

Can someone tell me about shift sensors and brake sensors? Are they compatible with the m620. Will I need to get these? Is it worth it?

Do they just plug into the connector for the throttle, via a Y piece?

Well IMO, shift sensor is worth having (however it is not must have). If you play with shifting reasonably you can live without it.
Brake sensors are not much value for myself (specially if you have "analog" levers and need to glue magnets. Maybe if you have e-levers like Magura it gets more sense

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

I make this post not in an effort to persuade or put-off members, for those who are considering installing shift detection on the E22.

For those who are unfamiliar, Bafang implemented a shift sensor for their motors in 2017. Originally designed for the BBS line of Bafang motors. However, they were (and still are) compatible with any Bafang motor (provided that you have the correct 3 pin higo styled connector with your existing wire harness/loom.

THE ABOVE WIRE LOOM/HARNESS IS FOR ILLUSTRATION PURPOSES ONLY. HOWEVER, 1T1/1T2/1T3/1/4 WIRE HARNESS/LOOM EXISTS FOR ALL BAFANG MOTORS.

Soon after in 2018, Bafang released a dedicated shift sensor which worked the same as the original shift sensor. However, plugged in directly into the motor. PLEASE NOTE THAT THESE STYLE OF SHIFT SENSOR ARE NEITHER UART OR CANBUS SPECIFIC. RATHER, ONLY THE M400, M620 & M420 CAN USE THEM.

in recent years, Bafang have opted to ditch the shift sensor with their newer line up of motors. To which one must ask the question, 'Why?'

Whilst this is NOT an official answer from Bafang, one needs to recognise how Bafang's shift sensor works. In accordance with the growing innovation of wireless shifting.

Essentially, BBafang's shift sensor detects movement of the inner cable. When the inner cable moves per 2mm, it will send a signal to the motor stopping power. Allowing your chain to jump up or down the cassette, without the motor administratoring unnecessary power which could cause stress on the chain, chainring, cassette and derailleur.

You could argue that the method as to how Bafang's shift sensor works is somewhat crude, as it relies on good cable tension and gear indexing. But I'll leave that to yourselves to be the judge.

But the reason why I choose not to use it is simply because of, 'That split second of loss of power'.

How I ride, I'm someone who usually up shifts when climbing. Instead of going up levels of assist. This is due to my own tendency of finding a going cadence, compared to using a higher level of assist which I may loose control by having the front wheel lift off the ground.

But if we factor in the shift sensor (in conjunction with my style of riding), that split second of power loss would equate to me potentially coming to a complete halt whilst climbing Which for me, would be counterproductive.

Granted, I'm not here to persuade or put-off members from considering the shift sensor. But I will say that only one of my ebikes which uses the M620 uses it.

This one. My FLX Blade F1. This is a bike which I'm less likely to attempt technical climbing.

Nevertheless, the shift sensor can be retrofitted to either a UART or CANBus protocol Bafang M620 motor

 

[RAW76]

Apologies for the delay @Jallu.
You are correct. The 48v battery (in terms of watt hours) is greater than the 52v. However please understand that by increasing the voltage of a battery pack, you are increasing the power flow. Thus, increasing the efficiency as the amps don't need to be as high to compensate for discharge.

I'm still calculating whether the range is better with either the 52v15amp vs 48v17.5amp. The performance is better due to the efficiency.
View attachment 89389
But I'll be playing around with gear ratio courtesy of the Christini Spider adapter, which allows the use of a 32t chainring.

I'll share my findings if it assists others. But @Mabman has been using both the E22 with both a 52v battery and the Christini spider adapter.

As for building a battery. Yes, it is possible. However, this particular frame/battery design uses a switch which activates the BMS within the battery.
The above video should elaborate on this further.

If you consider building your own battery, I would reccomend removing the battery mounting hardware and fabricating something which would work with a DIY battery and use Anderson connectors

I have 42t on my BBS02. I liked the top speed and also can climb pretty steep trails. I think anything lower than 40t is too slow on road.

 

[Mabman]

I found that the mostly internal full length housing lacking stops and the short distance of the housing when exiting the chainstay to the derailleur prohibits the installation of a shift sensor on the E22 frame. I just back off before shifting much like I always have even before using e assist. There are times though when you can utilize the slight amount of overrun to aid in shifts but still best to keep human psi out of the equation.

 

[Cigales]

Regarding the battery aspect, I'm personally aiming for a 52v (nominal) if possible.
My previous ebike was a hub motor + external controller running on 81.4V (nominal, 92v fully charged) (22s8p Samsung25R cells). There were several reasons why I opted for this range of voltage.

• For hub motors, 1V = 1Km/h in speed. So if you are fully charged, thus 92v, you are roughly able get 90km/h top speed. (in good conditions). I wanted to be able to get high speeds on my bike as I was transferring from a daily driver combustion motorbike which had good speed and good range. Where I live, a vehicle is almost a must. This is one reason why higher voltage was preferred.
  But not to forget, you always have voltage sag when an electrical load is applied. This is where my next point starts
• Voltage sag means my top speed was lower than the 1V = 1Km/h rule (or should I call it a guideline). To soften the impact, I chose to custom build (not me, someone else made if for me) which allowed me to over-dimension the electrical specs.
• By opting for a 22s8p configuration, I was able to reduce voltage sag and reduce chemistry wear and tear by never going bellow a certain voltage. Not to mention a higher C rate (discharge amperage rating). Manufacturers battery cells' datasheet was very helpful in determining these limits as well as a spreadsheet which made cost vs specs easier to determine.
• Efficiency and less heat dissipation is also a nice outcome. Wire section section can be smaller, although I recommend good grade silicon sleeve multi thread wires

Now there are downsides to playing:

• You get nice electrical arcs when plugging in the discharge and charge connectors, although you do get them lower voltages but not as impressive. This is caused by inrush current flowing to a capacitor. The only way to prevent this arc and the tear is brings upon the connectors metal contact, is to incorperate a anti-spark(aka precharge) resistor. This is an extra positive wire which is connected before the main positive wire. It has a resistor which lowers the voltage and charges the capacitor slower than it would with the main positive wire.
  I'm also comfortable when dealing with electricity because I've made so many mistakes in the past, to the point where my nose can detect smoke before I can see it, ha ha!
  
• Finding the right charger was a trouble. They are a little bigger than regular 42v chargers, and the make noise because internal fan(s).
  81.4V(92v full) li-ion charger was just not easy to find in 2013. OK, there were some out there, but as stated above, I chose to charge my battery pack to 90V max in hope to increase longevity instead of 92V. In order to do this, you need an adjustable charger. At the time, I was using an EMC-400 and EMC-600.
• Size and weight. My battery was big and the bike did not really have the space, so I purchased a two pouch bag that was placed on the main downtube, thus my battery pack was actually two 11s8p packs linked to together.
• The last downside, I didn't make the battery pack so I didn't have any of the tools necessary for maintenance or fixing it. You can't seek RMA because it was homemade. You're on you own.

Back to the E22. I'm aiming for a 52V setup.
Sadly, Melody from Dengfu, has told me they do not sell 52V batteries.
Where do you guys think I can purchase a 52V battery from?
These are the only product listing I've found so far:

• 295.74￡ 10% OFF|Bafang M620/ G510 power ebike battery pack 52V 14Ah 15Ah hidden Dengfu electric bike frame batteries| | - AliExpress
• Dengfu E10 Ebike Frame 1000w Bafang Motor Frame M500 M600 52v 15ah Down Tube Hidden Electric Bike Batteries - Buy Reention Dorado Plus 48v Battery,Ebike Battery Pack 48v 17.5ah,Bbs01b Bbs02b 250w 500w Product on Alibaba.com

It's listed as a Dengfu frame compatible. But I'm wondering if the I can search the web by using Lunacycle X1 as a reference.

I would prefer to start with a purchased battery. Once I have more experience with the bike I would like to build a custom battery pack.

 

[Mabman]

@Cigales I worked out the details for my 52v 780wh 40A BMS battery with [email protected].. Am very pleased with the service, shipping and results. Tell him LeftCoast eBike sent you!

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

I make this post not in an effort to persuade or put-off members, for those who are considering installing shift detection on the E22.

View attachment 89484
For those who are unfamiliar, Bafang implemented a shift sensor for their motors in 2017. Originally designed for the BBS line of Bafang motors. However, they were (and still are) compatible with any Bafang motor (provided that you have the correct 3 pin higo styled connector with your existing wire harness/loom.

View attachment 89485
THE ABOVE WIRE LOOM/HARNESS IS FOR ILLUSTRATION PURPOSES ONLY. HOWEVER, 1T1/1T2/1T3/1/4 WIRE HARNESS/LOOM EXISTS FOR ALL BAFANG MOTORS.

View attachment 89486
Soon after in 2018, Bafang released a dedicated shift sensor which worked the same as the original shift sensor. However, plugged in directly into the motor. PLEASE NOTE THAT THESE STYLE OF SHIFT SENSOR ARE NEITHER UART OR CANBUS SPECIFIC. RATHER, ONLY THE M400, M620 & M420 CAN USE THEM.

in recent years, Bafang have opted to ditch the shift sensor with their newer line up of motors. To which one must ask the question, 'Why?'

View attachment 89487
Whilst this is NOT an official answer from Bafang, one needs to recognise how Bafang's shift sensor works. In accordance with the growing innovation of wireless shifting.

View attachment 89488
Essentially, BBafang's shift sensor detects movement of the inner cable. When the inner cable moves per 2mm, it will send a signal to the motor stopping power. Allowing your chain to jump up or down the cassette, without the motor administratoring unnecessary power which could cause stress on the chain, chainring, cassette and derailleur.

View attachment 89489
You could argue that the method as to how Bafang's shift sensor works is somewhat crude, as it relies on good cable tension and gear indexing. But I'll leave that to yourselves to be the judge.

But the reason why I choose not to use it is simply because of, 'That split second of loss of power'.

How I ride, I'm someone who usually up shifts when climbing. Instead of going up levels of assist. This is due to my own tendency of finding a going cadence, compared to using a higher level of assist which I may loose control by having the front wheel lift off the ground.

But if we factor in the shift sensor (in conjunction with my style of riding), that split second of power loss would equate to me potentially coming to a complete halt whilst climbing Which for me, would be counterproductive.

Granted, I'm not here to persuade or put-off members from considering the shift sensor. But I will say that only one of my ebikes which uses the M620 uses it. View attachment 89492
This one. My FLX Blade F1. This is a bike which I'm less likely to attempt technical climbing.

View attachment 89493
View attachment 89494
Nevertheless, the shift sensor can be retrofitted to either a UART or CANBus protocol Bafang M620 motor

Thanks Neeko.

Do you know which cables I would need to fit the sensors to the can m620?


EDIT : I see this one

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

@bram.biesiekierski if you intend on running the brake cut off levers, you'll need a Y splitter.

If you run 4pot brakes with regular levers, you can use either one of the yellow female 3 pin higo connectors. The Male 3 pin higo connector is for throttle only

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Progress.

Just waiting on a few small bits and pieces now

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

So following from numerous enquiries about the ordering & building a Dengfu E22 for USA customers, GBK now has your back!!!

Dengfu E22 ebike carbon fibre frame for Bafang Ultra M620 motor-GreenBikeKit BBS, ebike batteries, Bafang M620, Bafang M600, Bafang M500, Bafang M510, KT controller with display-GreenBikeKit.com

Dengfu E22 ebike carbon fibre frame for Bafang Ultra M620 motor

www.greenbikekit.com

Hope this helps anyone in the states who wishes to build an E22

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Got a little but more done today. Motor is in. Rear derailer/shifter is all assembled and as dialed as i can get it for now. Will just need a fine tune once chain is in. Rear brakes plummed up and bled. Dropper remote cable hooked up and adjusted.

Waiting on the front brakes, chainring adapter, crank arms, battery pack, shock hardware and one of my mates to return some borrowed handle bars haha.

I also decided that sooner or later Im gonna need another rear shock, so i dont need to swap the one I have between frames. And then Pushys had a EOFY sale, and i still had an extra 15% discount code up my sleeve aswell. So i ordered a Marzocchi Bomber CR coil for the rear. These are already pretty cheap, and great bang for your buck. And i got a cane creek 550-670# progressive valt spring in the sale aswell. Coil is white, so it should match the frame lol. So im not even gonna bother pulling the old kitsuma off the remedy. No point now as im still waiting on the shock hardware anyways.

So far this build has cost me more than I would have liked to have spent. But I'm still quite a bit infront of a base model alloy frame trek rail, or base model giant trance/reign. And absolutely miles infront of any specialised offerings. So im happy. And I get through spec the bike how I want aswell.

i wasnt super happy with how the cables/hoses pass form the front triangle into the rear triangle. There is a fair bit of movement through the suspension travel. So i slid some dual wall heatshrink over the hoses where they would rub, and did my best to posistion them in such a way that everything would be good as the rear suspension moved up and down.

 

[djol]

Nice work with the heat shrink tubing mate think I’ll copy that for my E10 build.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Yeah. I used that HD glue lined stuff. We use it at work, and it's pretty tough

 

[rivets]

Completed my build this past weekend (need a smaller chainring). This thread was very helpful and insightful. May be selling the Turbo Levo after this. Such a beast of a bike.