Dengfu E22 Frame Thread

[ilostmypassword]

So following from my earlier posts about the characteristics of the motor when programmed, I'm still tinkering with the motor tune in terms of balancing power and efficiency in conjunction with how I want this bike to ride.

Whilst I have so far been able to dial in the keep current and stop decay to ensure responsiveness as well as to have a bit of a motor over-run by amending the stop delay, I may further amend the start current. Granted, I'm reminded that I'm running the Dengfu E22 with 27.5" wheels. So 'through my own experience', I don't need to pull as much power compared to using 29" wheel.

For those who are confused with the above mentioned, essentially all bafang mid drive motors are gear driven. This means that the motors (by design), like to spin to achieve optimal performance. RPM's vary depending on the motor but opting to give the motor a mechanical advantage in terms of smaller chainring (32t) and wider cassette 11spd 11-50t) will equally improve your usage/mileage & range.

That engine is loud! Sounds like a motorbike

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

That engine is loud! Sounds like a motorbike

Yeah, I noticed that.
The good news is that it is quieter now after playing with the programming and changing the grease inside.

But I wont shy away from the fact that you can hear the motor when it initiates.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

My initial impressions of the Dengfu E22 can be watched here

Happy Easter holiday guys and girls

 

[Old Biker]

Ordered my dengfu e22 complete 29er from carbon cycles at end of March after following your thread ,they said they are upgrading my groupset to NX s
Got a pike 160 and nice 230x60 rockshox for it and 4 pot brakes ,quite excited hope it comes lol

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Ordered my dengfu e22 complete 29er from carbon cycles at end of March after following your thread ,they said they are upgrading my groupset to NX s
Got a pike 160 and nice 230x60 rockshox for it and 4 pot brakes ,quite excited hope it comes lol

Awesome @Old Biker

I'm pleased that Carbon Cycles now offer complete builds of both the E22 & E10.

Please kindly share a pic with us when it arrives

 

[Old Biker]

Awesome @Old Biker

I'm pleased that Carbon Cycles now offer complete builds of both the E22 & E10.

Please kindly share a pic with us when it arrives

Will do ,keep up the good work

 

[Mayners]

 

[Mayners]

My Frameset also arrived but with Innotrace X1 Motor.

You must explain for me why the rear travel with 230x60, 230x62.5 or 230x65 is the same?
I mean with more Hub the Rear is able to move more and this generates more travel? But you say the e22 has still the same travel with differnt Hub. Dont understand that.
I have a dhx 2 2021 so there I can change easy the travel to 65,62.5 or 60mm Hub.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Apologies for the delay @Mayners.

The reason why the E22 cannot exceed 150mm of travel is due to the linkage used.

You'll have to forgive the fact that I'm using the E10 as an example. However, the fundamentals still apply.

The linkage is only designed to move up to a certain point in accordance with the stroke length of the rear shock.

Referring to my previous posts, both the E10 and E22 use the same rear ends. However, the shock placement and rocker joint are situated in different positions between the two frames. This does effect the leverage curve between the two frames but it also prevents the linkage from fully rotating on the E22 compared to the E10.

My dengfu E10 is using a rear shock of 210x60. Therefore giving the frame 163.5mm of rear wheel travel.

The E22 on the other hand (in conjunction with the shock placement and rocker link position), will utilize the axle path differently. But prevents the rocker joint from rotating past a certain point.

Compared to the E10 with the rocker joint sitting lower and the shock placement angle differing.

The chainstay position also differs between the frames but this is more due to motor mount placement and position. With the E22 being lower than the E10.

I'll need to take better photos and position myself in a better position to emphasize this. However even if you were to put a 230x65 (which in theory should give you roughly 162mm of travel), the existing linkage prevents this.

Having said that, the rear shock you have will fit in the frame. You'll need to calculate your sag point differently to compensate for the longer stroke.

Hope this helps but let me know if you have any further questions

 

[nofroyo]

Thanks for the detailed review. Will keep following to hear what you have to say.
Do you think the E10 could run a 230x55? Only asking because I have that shock at hand

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Thanks for the detailed review. Will keep following to hear what you have to say.
Do you think the E10 could run a 230x55? Only asking because I have that shock at hand

The E10v1 or v2 aren't designed for a 230 eye to eye rear shock.
@thaeber has informed me that its possible to run an imperial measurement 216 eye to eye rear shock with offset bushes. But ideally, you should run a metric 210 eye to eye with a stroke not exceeding 55mm.

Whilst I chose to use a a 210x60 rear shock which gives me 163.5mm of rear wheel travel, it has been mutually agreed by both myself, Carbon Cycle & Dengfu that my decision to continue using this shock has void the warranty.
The frame hasn't sustained any damage (yet) through my 4-6 foot huck-to-flat tests and running this Rockshox Monarch rc3 plus with 3 volume bands and 310psi hasn't bottomed it out completely. But I would say 'tread with caution!!', should you choose to deviate from their recommended guidelines.

However, my intention to collaborate with a fabrication company to design a revised yoke seems promising but I'll keep everyone posted on how I get on As well as the comparison ride between the E10 and E22

 

[thaeber]

Thanks for the detailed review. Will keep following to hear what you have to say.
Do you think the E10 could run a 230x55? Only asking because I have that shock at hand

No. Way too long!

 

[thaeber]

If You compare the angle between yoke and shock, the main difference between E10 and E22 is that the angle change at full compression will be turn more towards „open“ angle with the E22. This results in a less progressive/ more linear or even degressive suspension ratio that better suits an air shock.
Would be interesting to see the suspension ratio chart for E22 to prove my estimation (is rubbish)

 

[nofroyo]

Hmm.. I was wondering which of these 2 would serve better as a bikepark bike? I currently have 1 bike atm and am considering selling the frame and transfer over my components to make this dengfu bike as my do it all bike.

 

[thaeber]

…more clear?

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

If You compare the angle between yoke and shock, the main difference between E10 and E22 is that the angle change at full compression will be turn more towards „open“ angle with the E22. This results in a less progressive/ more linear or even degressive suspension ratio that better suits an air shock.
Would be interesting to see the suspension ratio chart for E22 to prove my estimation (is rubbish)

View attachment 86841

View attachment 86842

You're not far off @thaeber with your predictions. But I'll await for my suspension expert to provide the full details.

But essentially, this does answer the important question which many have wondered. I.e. Is the E22 an updated E10?
The answer could in fact be, Each frame was designed to cater for a different type of application and excel in certain circumstances.

But I'll know more once I've got both bikes back from my suspension experts which will be for this Friday

 

[thaeber]

Thanks Neeko, waiting for Your feedback! May be I missed it somewhere in the thread, but attached is the geo chart that I received from Dengfu earlier this year. This shows way shorter reach values for the E22 compared to the E10. Is this outdated? Can You confirm this values?

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Thanks for that @thaeber. I'm unable to comment concerning the small (16") or medium (18"). I will gladly say that the geometry indicated on the large is somewhat inaccurate.

I referenced this in my last video which draws inference on the fact that the geometry chart would be the primary method to gauge which frame size a potential buyer should choose.

For reference, a reach of 470mm (by nower day standards on a mid-travel bike) would be the equivalent to a medium. Mine is measuring at 496mm. Carbon Cycle confirmed that I have received the large (20"). I could only measure the reach as soon as the motor was installed.

Dont get me wrong, I am aware that some manufacturers still determine frame size by seat tube length. But with the growing number of longer dropper seatpost becoming available, I suspect that those manufacturers may reconsider this notion.

Furthermore, I did stumble on this video a while back.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

Granted, it's not the same as comparing reach. But it does suggest that measuring methods differ from the norm (or how I'm use to measuring reach).

Oddly enough, the E10's xl frame geometry is accurate to the geometry chart and doesn't differ from the conventional method of measuring reach.

 

[njjn]

@Neeko DeVinchi Between E22 and E10, which frame do you prefer overall?

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

@Neeko DeVinchi Between E22 and E10, which frame do you prefer overall?

Good question.
Its early for me to say which one I overall prefer.

I see the strengths and weaknesses in both.

And whilst I was reluctant to base any opinion I would have concerning each platform regarding the motors, ultimately the motors do play a part in terms of the characteristics between the two bikes in terms of engagement and the rider interacting with each system in specific circumstances (walk mode being one noticable feature which drastically differs between the two).

This weekend, I should be able to make further notes comparing the two. So I'll keep everyone updated

 

[bexamous]

BTW saw your video on E22, two things I dislike about charging port.. can't spin cranks while charging. Makes it more annoying to wipe off chain after rides. Also my little rubber port cover came off. I don't even know how as I was always extra careful wtih it and then one day it fell off in my hand.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

BTW saw your video on E22, two things I dislike about charging port.. can't spin cranks while charging. Makes it more annoying to wipe off chain after rides. Also my little rubber port cover came off. I don't even know how as I was always extra careful wtih it and then one day it fell off in my hand.

I do see your point concerning the charging port position which can interfere with the cranks being spun whilst charging. Usually, I'll remove the battery and charge it if I'm performing general maintenance like cleaning/lubing the chain.

As for losing the dust seal around the charging port, your the first person to raise this as an issue. I've already begun cataloguing components which are compatible with both the E22 and E10 which can be sourced aftermarket without going back to Dengfu or the respective dealer. I'll look into this to see whether something exists which can be used instead without causing damage to the charge port.
Appreciate the feedback

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

This is by no means the definitive answer comparing the E10 & E22. Moreso, my initial impressions. But I suspect that this will answer some questions many have asked

 

[rtp]

@Neeko DeVinchi How tall are you? You mentioned this in context of the 180mm and BB height, reach etc., but not height?
RE: What Luna has done = they did a custom VESC controller for the X2 (full replacement, I have pics somewhere of mine pulled), not the same as the 'shunt mod' done on the X1. Pretty sure the rest is OEM, which now includes a beefed up PEEK 'silent' gear. Unknown RE: elife.
X2 controller info: Luna M600 Ludicrous V2 (+ buried in a looong ES thread from the controller developer, Marcos..)

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

@Neeko DeVinchi How tall are you? You mentioned this in context of the 180mm and BB height, reach etc., but not height?
RE: What Luna has done = they did a custom VESC controller for the X2 (full replacement, I have pics somewhere of mine pulled), not the same as the 'shunt mod' done on the X1. Pretty sure the rest is OEM, which now includes a beefed up PEEK 'silent' gear. Unknown RE: elife.
X2 controller info: Luna M600 Ludicrous V2 (+ buried in a looong ES thread from the controller developer, Marcos..)

Cheers for that @rtp. Much appreciated concerning the link

I'll provide a full geometry spec in an upcoming short video. I'm 6foot 3inches for reference and the Dengfu E10v1 is an xl.

I've seen your threads on EBR concerning your initial impressions of the Luna x2. Very insightful.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

So I know a lot of members have asked for the wiring schematic and diagram of the M620.

The above image doesn't really answer the question but I appreciate it populates under a search on Google, 'Bafang M620 Wiring Diagram'.

Same thing for this one.

Moving forward, I'll do my utmost to draft a fully comprehensive wiring schematic for the M620 motor (Both UART and CANBus).

Please kindly bare with me as I am liaising with multiple participants who are equally contributing to this

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Hi Neeko. Can you please tell me what size rear disc rotor the rear triangle is set up for? Is it 180mm? And do you know if it's possible to fit 220mm rotor without fouling in the triangle.

Im trying to work out which post mount brake adapter to get. I use 220mm rotors on my other bike, and I would like to keep with 220mm rotors as that way swapping wheels between the bikes will be straightforward. TIA

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Hi Neeko. Can you please tell me what size rear disc rotor the rear triangle is set up for? Is it 180mm? And do you know if it's possible to fit 220mm rotor without fouling in the triangle.

Im trying to work out which post mount brake adapter to get. I use 220mm rotors on my other bike, and I would like to keep with 220mm rotors as that way swapping wheels between the bikes will be straightforward. TIA

It uses 180mm rotors as standard. I'm running 203mm Shimano rotors. I haven't tried running 220mm rotors but let me check if someone has ran 220mm rotors on the E10. If so, then yes it is possible.

Bare with me

 

[rtp]

Cheers for that @rtp. Much appreciated concerning the link

I'll provide a full geometry spec in an upcoming short video. I'm 6foot 3inches for reference and the Dengfu E10v1 is an xl.

I've seen your threads on EBR concerning your initial impressions of the Luna x2. Very insightful.

Thx, people are constantly asking on sizing.

I'm 6' running a M frame (E10, not to confuse anyone further..) which is OK (with 170-200mm dropper). Probably should have gone L but this way I'm slowly convincing my wife to ride it to get a second one.

EBR is the 'short list' 'most' mods on my X2/E10 are in a much longer thread here, I think including pics of the controller pulled out of the motor when I swapped etc. and some of the mobile and full vesc apps/pics/details etc. My Ludi V2 X2

Ok, back to E22 we go..

 

[Mayners]

After long time of waiting the paint Job is done and I can start. The Red color is Ford Rubin Red.
Its very nice to have some background infos here !
Thanks to all