MrSimmo
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Got to say @Rob Rides EMTB , just watched the video on youtube. Fair play mate, awesome job ?
Dengfu E10 - The CHEEB V1.0 - Discussion
- Thread starter Rob Rides EMTB
- Start date
Niklas Kinn
New Member
Hi Rob. nice project that I want to take a closer look at. I have a lot of snippets from my levo’s. the contact from specialized is not canbus but just an ordinary contact with 1 minus and 4 outputs. I have used one to make a light control via arudino print. then I have a switch on both sides of the handlebars.
The M620 doesn’t fit. It’s a lot bigger.
There are also some interesting frames for the M620.
I have built this beast with the M620 (3500W) motor.
And currently started on a new fatbike with the M620 motor and Dengfu Carbon frame.
Doug Stampfer
Well-known member
Can we have some better pics of that top bike please? Looks great just hard to appreciate on an angle
It would be nice if there was a manufacturer that produced a generic modular frame that, coupled with an adaptor plate, could use any motor.
I don’t quite understand why we’re still getting excited over carbon frames. It’s not exactly new technology. It should be a given that the frame is carbon.
What I’d like to see is more detail info on the manufacture method of these frames ie type of cloth, layup, pre-preg or wet etc plus associated FE analysis of the frame.
I work in an industry where we make our waste bins from carbon so let’s stop pretending it’s something special.
I don’t quite understand why we’re still getting excited over carbon frames. It’s not exactly new technology. It should be a given that the frame is carbon.
What I’d like to see is more detail info on the manufacture method of these frames ie type of cloth, layup, pre-preg or wet etc plus associated FE analysis of the frame.
I work in an industry where we make our waste bins from carbon so let’s stop pretending it’s something special.
Now I want a carbon bin.
Another Cheeky Cheeber for anyone who's missed it .
www.emtbforums.com
Hi there from Australia. 10+ years on Eebs.
Hello there from Sunny Queensland Australia. My name is Andy aka. Animalector or TheAnimalector on Youtube. I live most of the way towards the top of Australia (Cairns) where it's been around 35deg C for the past couple of months. Only now are we starting to get some wet weather action to...
www.emtbforums.com
Animalector
Active member
A Bafang Forum would open the doors to some more DIY bolt-ons and DIY OEM build threads.
BTW Rob, that paint job in the video looks fantastic. Nice work.
Andy
BTW Rob, that paint job in the video looks fantastic. Nice work.
Andy
- Thread starter
- #281
Done - new DIY section added.
Animalector
Active member
I have had both the M500 and M600 apart on the bench next to each other, and they are nearly identical. The M600 has a different # teeth on the primary drive to the metal reduction gear (M500 is metal to plastic), but otherwise the gears and bearings are all the same internally from what I could tell.. The M600 has a wider stator for more current capacity in the motor.. otherwise the same. I agree, the M500 would be capable of more, BUT.... I think it has what it needs, I haven't found it lacking for power, and very rarely ride in Level 5 (of 5). Usually I'm in 2 or 3... hmm ok, level 4 if I am lazy...
Andy
- Thread starter
- #283
Good info thanks for sharing.I have had both the M500 and M600 apart on the bench next to each other, and they are nearly identical. The M600 has a different # teeth on the primary drive to the metal reduction gear (M500 is metal to plastic), but otherwise the gears and bearings are all the same internally from what I could tell.. The M600 has a wider stator for more current capacity in the motor.. otherwise the same. I agree, the M500 would be capable of more, BUT.... I think it has what it needs, I haven't found it lacking for power, and very rarely ride in Level 5 (of 5). Usually I'm in 2 or 3... hmm ok, level 4 if I am lazy...
Andy
The M500 definitely is not lacking in power. I think its slightly less powerful than the Bosch Gen4; I'll do a back to back test vs my Trek rail. But I suspect some of this is down to the firmware / motor programming. Bosch has this instant kick of power since they updated the Gen4 firmware to 85Nm. Whereas the Bafang needs a few more RPM to get going.
Really like what Bafang are doing though with these motors and I can see a bright future for home / DIY builders with this drive unit.
I have had both the M500 and M600 apart on the bench next to each other, and they are nearly identical. The M600 has a different # teeth on the primary drive to the metal reduction gear (M500 is metal to plastic), but otherwise the gears and bearings are all the same internally from what I could tell.. The M600 has a wider stator for more current capacity in the motor.. otherwise the same. I agree, the M500 would be capable of more, BUT.... I think it has what it needs, I haven't found it lacking for power, and very rarely ride in Level 5 (of 5). Usually I'm in 2 or 3... hmm ok, level 4 if I am lazy...
Andy
hi andy. I am agree with you for the motor, less sensation than shimano (that i know) but more efficient. Happy to see you here. I have seen your returns on endlessphere and you seem to have great experiency on bafang M. All your recomendations to newbe builder are welcome
Waynemarlow
E*POWAH Master
Its a balance for the manufacturers to have minimum weight and longevity of the gears ( motors and electronics are probably now more reliable than the bits taking all the strain such as the gear train ), I would suggest Bafang have taken the option of only feeding in power once the bike is moving to lower the all up weight and still have a very quiet engine.
You could in theory reduce significantly the size and weight of the gears if you were prepared to only allow the motor to put in power once the gears were actually moving at speed, ( think CVT gearbox's ) as the max stress on the gear is full power from the motor at 0 rpm. Once the gears are rotating, then you can really start to input a lot more power, as the engagement becomes spread over a number of gear faces rather than the single face of one tooth ( for Gary, technically yes its always one tooth only, but as the gears move it becomes only a brief moment in time before another gear also is engaged, its a long technical story to do with pressure, friction and heat on plastic ).
On the TSDZ2 when they hacked it, it was one of the first things they did, the motor has to be rotating at least 120 degrees before allowing motor power to reduce the loading on the one bit that was commonly failing, the plastic gear. Have I damaged a gear since, no, so I guess there's logic and track record to the reasoning to why Bafang slowly ramp up the motor only once its rotating, after all they have in the many millions of BB series out there for a very long time, all racking up millions of cycles in use, as their test bed.
Sorry Rob, you're just going to have to man up and put a bit more effort in to get off the line with the Bafangs
InRustWeTrust
E*POWAH Master
really nice bike, correct me if I am wrong but surely all Bafang motors are illegal and do more than 250 watts? I have in mind that when I checked Bafang they had no engine that was legal from what I could find.
I think the M500 was built specifically to comply.
InRustWeTrust
E*POWAH Master
yes you have right the m500 is a 250 watt motor , I think I just checken their Bbs serie of motors
Pivot
E*POWAH Master
The power output is electronically controlled and restricted to comply with specific requirements.
Most motors are capable of much higher output. It’s the same with motorcycles, cars and trucks.
It is just more efficient to manufacture one strong motor in large numbers and moderate its output through electronic throttle, to fit specific market condition.
Motors are usually rated by their 'continuous' power capability. Meaning, what power they can put out without a break all day and not overheat or get damaged. The peak power they can put out is another thing altogether. I once had a hub motor that was rated at 6000w continuous, but i would use it up to 16,000w of peak power. I also had another rated at just 1500w but It could be run up to 10,000w without any issues.
Last edited:
Doug Stampfer
Well-known member
I'm not sure I missed it but was there a weight comparison between this frame & motor only compared to a different brand carbon or ali bike?
I think the weights were posted on the first page, so you could compare them to whatever alternative you liked.
Waynemarlow
E*POWAH Master
Is the new Forrestal motor not a direct rebadged version of the M500 with their own firmware ?
Animalector
Active member
I don't think so. I think it is more like the M800. Light weight, less assist (60Nm) Component
But that doesn't look right either.. Their website does say proprietary design, so perhaps it's the M800 base with a few mods..
Andy
As @Animalector says, I think it's completely different .. much smaller, completely different mounting points. 1.95kg's . 60 nm.
Externally, it looks quite a bit different to the M800 also though ....
Animalector
Active member
hmm, indeed not the same.. could be the same internals, in a different case. That's some serious investment in tooling. I've been thinking about the "light weight" enduro rather than going bigger more powerful. I think this is where we'll end up long-term. I am very keen to see A Forestal in the flesh.
Animalector
Active member
I found that pic on the Net, no I have not purchased M800 motors from Bafang. They are very reluctant to sell one-off motors.
GrandPaBrogan
⚡ eGeezer ⚡
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