2019 Turbo Levo Owners Thread

[khorn]

the company I work for is a small Danish outfit with only four or five staff, we build an electronically controlled underwater breathing apparatus that works perfectly without leaking in depths up to 300m. If we can do that why can't the mighty Spesh just design a motor cover that keeps the rain and mud out!!!!
Unbelievable!!

I must say that it is becoming hilarious that @Specialized Rider Care continue to keep absolutely quiet regarding this matter. The least they could do is to announce that they are looking into the issue and then come up whith a solution if/when they have one. From my perspective this very selective approach towards questions from various users of their products indicates to me that they only want to discuss sweet stuff and sticking their head in a hole when things get dirty.....

Karsten

 

[Unspecialized]

haha be your own bike engineer ?

They engeneered the Levo for street use only ?
Embarassing!

 

[Decca]

Before I did my debris collection prevention modifications, I went for a short ride in my local area, which was mainly dry fireroads, and this was my haul after removing the motor cover:

Are you looking at this, specialized, and feeling guilty and ashamed?

 

[Gary]

That's what I did. I cut up a Mucky Nutz to make a seat tube barrier..

View attachment 6920 View attachment 6921 View attachment 6922 View attachment 6923 View attachment 6924

Sorry. I don't get it. What is your homemade guard sheilding? The back of the seat tube?
Surely it's just going to collect the same amount of mud (possibly even more) just on the guard instead of the seattube.

Can't you plug the holes leading to the motor with motofoam?

 

[khorn]

Sorry. I don't get it. What is your homemade guard sheilding? The back of the seat tube?
Surely it's just going to collect the same amount of mud (possibly even more) just on the guard instead of the seattube.

Can't you plug the holes leading to the motor with motofoam?

Gary, what I you block the holes and the motor then selfdestruct due to heat or whatever and Specialized is claiming that I voided the warranty?

Nobody knows why Specialized have designed those big gaps as they er selectively very very quiet on this particular topic.

Karsten

 

[ccrdave]

I would have thought motofoam is the best solution until Spesh get a fix out, it will let air out and water only in which should just pass through the drain hole. you would have to regularly wash the foam though to keep it unblocked

 

[Gary]

Gary, what I you block the holes and the motor then selfdestruct due to heat or whatever and Specialized is claiming that I voided the warranty?

Then you remove the motofoam (as you can periodically anyway) and tell spesh it was blocked with mud because they designed their wonderframe with a stupid mud collecting funnel to their motor

 

[Decca]

Sorry. I don't get it. What is your homemade guard sheilding? The back of the seat tube?
Surely it's just going to collect the same amount of mud (possibly even more) just on the guard instead of the seattube.

Can't you plug the holes leading to the motor with motofoam?

The shield is between the "hole" and the tyre! Look at the pictures. It also prevents stone damage to the seat tube. The hole is still open to the air, and I may also block it with foam, but any debris flying off the tyre will hit the shield and fall to the ground.

 

[R120]

To be fair to whoever is posting under @Specialized Rider Care I am guessing they have looked at this thread and are having to check in further up the food chain with how to respond - I am in agreement with the feelings on this thread, but given the nature of the problem and the fact they are an official representative of Specialized they are not going to want to respond properly until they have looked into issue.

Still would be nice to get a response to say they are looking into the issue

 

[Hannes_3000]

To be fair to whoever is posting under @Specialized Rider Care I am guessing they have looked at this thread and are having to check in further up the food chain with how to respond - I am in agreement with the feelings on this thread, but given the nature of the problem and the fact they are an official representative of Specialized they are not going to want to respond properly until they have looked into issue.

Still would be nice to get a response to say they are looking into the issue

Disagree. At least they could confirm that there is an issue and that they actually ARE looking into it...

 

[Gary]

The shield is between the "hole" and the tyre! Look at the pictures.

Yeah. I did look. and did see that. Thanks.

It also prevents stone damage to the seat tube. The hole is still open to the air, and I may also block it with foam, but any debris flying off the tyre will hit the shield and fall to the ground.

So just as I thought. Your guard is mainly sheilding the rear of the seat tube which looks to be smooth with no awkward nooks or crannies to collect any more mud than the guard will. I honestly don't really see the point. I've never seen a single MTB seat tube damaged seriously by stones flung from the tyre, just cosmetic damage/chips to the paint and if you're worried about that protective clear tape would do. but fair enough I've seen far worse much more pointless mudguards stuck all over bikes.

 

[Decca]

Yeah. I did look. and did see that. Thanks.
So just as I thought. Your guard is mainly sheilding the rear of the seat tube which looks to be smooth with no awkward nooks or crannies to collect any more mud than the guard will. I honestly don't really see the point. I've never seen a single MTB seat tube damaged seriously by stones flung from the tyre, just cosmetic damage/chips to the paint and if you're worried about that protective clear tape would do. but fair enough I've seen far worse much more pointless mudguards stuck all over bikes.

Yeah, that shield is a bit over the top, I admit! However, if you look at my post #405 (page 14) in this thread, you'll see why I am a bit concerned by stone chip damage.

My local rides are predominately very gravelly fire roads, and the tyres seem very efficient at picking up sharp pebbles and flinging them at the paint.

 

[mark.ai]

Disagree. At least they could confirm that there is an issue and that they actually ARE looking into it...

Unfortunately it just doesn't work like that with big companies and community interaction/management - it's better for them to say nothing rather than say the wrong thing too early. And bigger companies take longer than you can imagine to work through the process ...

If they even just said "thanks for the feedback" without admitting a problem, then people would be like "omg it's not feedback dude this is a major issue etc" and it can spark up another round of negativity again

 

[Decca]

Covered the gap with some heavy duty sticky backed "foam" from here:

Pack of 8 Self-adhesive Anti-Vibration Grey Medium Density PE Foam Pads 5077074866073 | eBay

I'm done with this problem for now...

 

[galaga187]

To be fair to whoever is posting under @Specialized Rider Care I am guessing they have looked at this thread and are having to check in further up the food chain with how to respond - I am in agreement with the feelings on this thread, but given the nature of the problem and the fact they are an official representative of Specialized they are not going to want to respond properly until they have looked into issue.

Still would be nice to get a response to say they are looking into the issue

Totally agree. I’m expecting some advice in due course from the big S as per the motor noise issue.

 

[LevoLover7]

dont expect anything from big S. My Dealer received today 15 Levos and the "hole/gap" ist still there. Issue is known since months now. big S is quiet and silent.
But as told install a Mudhugger short version and all is fine!

 

[Decca]

although a mudhugger is installed? Strange...
I assumed that if you installed a mud no more dirt comes in the engine

Yeah, that dirt ingress ride was with no protection of any kind on the bike. I haven't been on it yet with all this protection nonsense on the bike. The weather's a bit crap at the moment...

 

[LevoLover7]

Yeah, that dirt ingress ride was with no protection of any kind on the bike. I haven't been on it yet with all this protection nonsense on the bike. The weather's a bit crap at the moment...

ok, sorry i was too fast and did not read your post properly. Thank you anyway

 

[Wiltshire Warrior]

Yeah, that shield is a bit over the top, I admit! However, if you look at my post #405 (page 14) in this thread, you'll see why I am a bit concerned by stone chip damage.

My local rides are predominately very gravelly fire roads, and the tyres seem very efficient at picking up sharp pebbles and flinging them at the paint.

Dont worry about it mate - just ride it and enjoy it accepting that some paint will come off each time you ride it. it will get to a point where no more paint comes off.

 

[R120]

Disagree. At least they could confirm that there is an issue and that they actually ARE looking into it...

Isn’t that what I said? Being devils advocate the moment the accept there is an issue they are looking at either a massive recall or big rollout of a fix, so either which way they will be looking at their liability/financials before coming out with anything.

 

[r23ves]

Perhaps brose warranties the motors anyway so its cheaper to not fix and let brose shoulder the costs of replacements down the line.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Hmm... I've had this since day one on my Levo.

At first I was annoyed as I could see obvious signs of debris (that I didn't see on my 2018).

But after many miles, I think that its something I can live with without too much issue at all. I guess its difficult to make it without holes / vents as the motor needs some way of cooling. Will it cause any long term damage? If the answer is no, then I'm really not bothered too much, I'll clean it out every few weeks by adding this as part of regular maintenance.

If it results in damage to the motor etc, then thats a different issue. I think (hope!) that the design and testing have deemed it a necessary way of venting the motor, and the debris is a by product of it, but will not cause any issues or damage.

Honestly, it is pretty easy to clean it out. I'm in no way saying it should happen, but it's really not too much of an issue (for me). I've done over 300 miles on my 2019 Levo and ridden in some brutal conditions and, yes, it's collected some crap, but it's taken about 5 minutes to clear it out.

 

[Gary]

Yeah, that shield is a bit over the top, I admit! However, if you look at my post #405 (page 14) in this thread, you'll see why I am a bit concerned by stone chip damage.
.

After scrolling through countless pages (is there a quicker way to do this?) I'd have to still say Helitape is probably your best protection for the paint chips you're getting. Having said that Helitape does get tatty after a while from age and from dunts. I have similar chips in my Carbon road bike frame but they're just the paint rather than the carbon so I've not bothered doing anything to cover or protect them.

 

[Decca]

After scrolling through countless pages (is there a quicker way to do this?) I'd have to still say Helitape is probably your best protection for the paint chips you're getting. Having said that Helitape does get tatty after a while from age and from dunts. I have similar chips in my Carbon road bike frame but they're just the paint rather than the carbon so I've not bothered doing anything to cover or protect them.

Yep - I've put InvisifFrame on it. Excellent stuff, and covers a lot of the bike, but sharp stones can go through it or deform it.

One of the smaller pieces on the rear triangle cross members did get marked by a stone, so I removed it. It brought some of the paint off! WTF!!! This paint is worse than I thought.

 

[highpeakrider]

It’s interesting that the pitch for the Levo was you guys paying a premium price for a premium product and support.

I can’t see any evidence of that, seems it’s a lower spec’d bike that has design issues. I wonder how quickly they would react if you had a I’m taking my Levo back to the shop day until it’s resolved?

 

[Gary]

One of the smaller pieces on the rear triangle cross members did get marked by a stone, so I removed it. It brought some of the paint off! WTF!!! This paint is worse than I thought.

Was that with gently heating the helitape or just pulling it off cold?

 

[Specialized Rider Care]

Thanks for the motor cover/ingress questions and apologies for the wait - took a week off.

Firstly, we know that this bike is going to get really wet & muddy (in fact we hope it does) and it is designed & warrantied with this in mind. All electrical connections have suitably IP-rated rubber seals, Brose motor connectors are sealed with double O-Rings and as long as all of the plugs/connectors stay fully pushed in when the bike gets wet everything will be fine. We do not recommend unplugging any of the motor connectors unless you absolutely need to, you are more likely to get dirt and moisture inside them in the process. Wash the bike with all connectors fully in place, don’t remove the battery or disconnect the battery connector when washing – for example. (You can wash an eBike with running water or a bucket and sponge, but never with a pressure washer). You should also never block the drain hole underneath the motor deliberately – this is where any water that does get in should drain out.

Secondly, during extensive field-testing on pre-production models we did experience more debris entering this area than expected. For this reason our product team made two small running changes – 1) Adding a shaped sponge to the inside rear of the motor housing reduced ingress of debris from above - typically thrown up by the rear wheel whilst riding in wet conditions 2) Adding a fourth bolt to the motor cover (both sides of the cover were redesigned to add this bolt) slightly reduced debris entering from below, primarily long thin items such as pine needles. Several thousand bikes had already been made when these running changes were made to production – we expect that these sponge filters will be available via retailers in most locations early in Dec 2018. In the meantime it is absolutely fine to use custom-shaped air-filter/skid-plate/moto-cross foam inside the motor cover, just be aware that the motor will get hot (up to 95°C) and for that reason you should avoid anything domestic or adhesive. (Skid-plate foam is designed to stop mud accumulation next to motor-bike engines – you can search for it online).

To answer a handful of rider questions - whilst it may look unsightly to have small leaves or mud inside the motor cover, unless these block the drain hole completely we have no concerns. As mentioned above, we’ve taken steps to reduce the debris that does get inside but we never saw any reliability or performance issues with our test bikes prior to making these running changes. In the meantime we can see riders are increasingly asking questions about basic care/preventative maintenance for eBikes and will gather some best practice to post in the maintenance thread in the near future.

A template using 10mm thick foam is shown below along with fitting instructions.

1) Remove left crank-arm and motor cover

2) Place foam between the rear motor mounts

3) Replace motor cover and torque M4 fasteners to 1Nm
4) Replace left crank-arm and torque to 40Nm

 

[Decca]

Was that with gently heating the helitape or just pulling it off cold?

Cold

 

[khorn]

Thanks for the motor cover/ingress questions and apologies for the wait - took a week off.

Firstly, we know that this bike is going to get really wet & muddy (in fact we hope it does) and it is designed & warrantied with this in mind. All electrical connections have suitably IP-rated rubber seals, Brose motor connectors are sealed with double O-Rings and as long as all of the plugs/connectors stay fully pushed in when the bike gets wet everything will be fine. We do not recommend unplugging any of the motor connectors unless you absolutely need to, you are more likely to get dirt and moisture inside them in the process. Wash the bike with all connectors fully in place, don’t remove the battery or disconnect the battery connector when washing – for example. (You can wash an eBike with running water or a bucket and sponge, but never with a pressure washer). You should also never block the drain hole underneath the motor deliberately – this is where any water that does get in should drain out.

Secondly, during extensive field-testing on pre-production models we did experience more debris entering this area than expected. For this reason our product team made two small running changes – 1) Adding a fourth bolt to the motor cover (both sides of the cover were redesigned to add this bolt) strengthened the cover from debris entering from below and 2) Adding a shaped sponge to the inside rear of the motor housing reduced ingress of debris from above. Several thousand bikes had already been made when these running changes were made to production – we’ll update this thread when these parts are available for service. It is absolutely fine to use custom-shaped air-filter/skid-plate/moto-cross foam inside the motor cover, just be aware that the motor will get hot (up to 95°C) and for that reason you should avoid anything domestic or adhesive. (Skid-plate foam is designed to stop mud accumulation next to motor-bike engines – you can search for it online).

To answer a handful of rider questions - whilst it may look unsightly to have small leaves or mud inside the motor cover, unless these block the drain hole completely we have no concerns. As mentioned above, we’ve taken steps to reduce the debris that does get inside but we never saw any reliability or performance issues with our test bikes prior to making these running changes. In the meantime we can see riders are increasingly asking questions about basic care/preventative maintenance for eBikes and will gather some best practice to post in the maintenance thread in the near future.

A template using 10mm thick foam is shown below along with fitting instructions.
View attachment 6976
1) Remove left crank-arm and motor cover
View attachment 6977
2) Place foam between the rear motor mounts
View attachment 6978
3) Replace motor cover and torque M4 fasteners to 1Nm
4) Replace left crank-arm and torque to 40Nm

Thanks for coming back @Specialized Rider Care - any hotfix for the 2019 Levo HT that also have a vey big hole in front of rear wheel as seen here:

Also, can you elaborate on the IP rating of the 2019 motors?

Thanks

Karsten

 

[Madebyspencer]

Thanks for the motor cover/ingress questions and apologies for the wait - took a week off.

Firstly, we know that this bike is going to get really wet & muddy (in fact we hope it does) and it is designed & warrantied with this in mind. All electrical connections have suitably IP-rated rubber seals, Brose motor connectors are sealed with double O-Rings and as long as all of the plugs/connectors stay fully pushed in when the bike gets wet everything will be fine. We do not recommend unplugging any of the motor connectors unless you absolutely need to, you are more likely to get dirt and moisture inside them in the process. Wash the bike with all connectors fully in place, don’t remove the battery or disconnect the battery connector when washing – for example. (You can wash an eBike with running water or a bucket and sponge, but never with a pressure washer). You should also never block the drain hole underneath the motor deliberately – this is where any water that does get in should drain out.

Secondly, during extensive field-testing on pre-production models we did experience more debris entering this area than expected. For this reason our product team made two small running changes – 1) Adding a fourth bolt to the motor cover (both sides of the cover were redesigned to add this bolt) strengthened the cover from debris entering from below and 2) Adding a shaped sponge to the inside rear of the motor housing reduced ingress of debris from above. Several thousand bikes had already been made when these running changes were made to production – we’ll update this thread when these parts are available for service. It is absolutely fine to use custom-shaped air-filter/skid-plate/moto-cross foam inside the motor cover, just be aware that the motor will get hot (up to 95°C) and for that reason you should avoid anything domestic or adhesive. (Skid-plate foam is designed to stop mud accumulation next to motor-bike engines – you can search for it online).

To answer a handful of rider questions - whilst it may look unsightly to have small leaves or mud inside the motor cover, unless these block the drain hole completely we have no concerns. As mentioned above, we’ve taken steps to reduce the debris that does get inside but we never saw any reliability or performance issues with our test bikes prior to making these running changes. In the meantime we can see riders are increasingly asking questions about basic care/preventative maintenance for eBikes and will gather some best practice to post in the maintenance thread in the near future.

A template using 10mm thick foam is shown below along with fitting instructions.
View attachment 6976
1) Remove left crank-arm and motor cover
View attachment 6977
2) Place foam between the rear motor mounts
View attachment 6978
3) Replace motor cover and torque M4 fasteners to 1Nm
4) Replace left crank-arm and torque to 40Nm

Thank you for the answers. For our temporary home foam fixed, do you have a recommended foam PPI? 30, 65, etc? What are you folks using in your foam?

Looking for the best results for protection without overheating.

@Specialized Rider Care