Dengfu E10 - The CHEEB V1.0 - Discussion

Niklas Kinn

New Member
Dec 2, 2020
79
75
Denmark
Wonder if I could replace the big Bafang remote with this one from the Levo?!

both use canbus

View attachment 48654

Hi Rob. nice project that I want to take a closer look at. I have a lot of snippets from my levo’s. the contact from specialized is not canbus but just an ordinary contact with 1 minus and 4 outputs. I have used one to make a light control via arudino print. then I have a switch on both sides of the handlebars.
 

Daxxie555

New Member
Jan 1, 2021
1
15
Belgium
I wonder if the bafang M620 torque monster has the same mounting dimensions as the M5/600 ?, wouldn’t mind building my own beast from the east
The M620 doesn’t fit. It’s a lot bigger.
There are also some interesting frames for the M620.
I have built this beast with the M620 (3500W) motor.
CBBD270C-67F1-4833-99FF-C38586A4A1E1.jpeg


And currently started on a new fatbike with the M620 motor and Dengfu Carbon frame.

5F60FCE2-CD4E-4172-A3D8-FE323A9922E9.jpeg
 

Sidepod

Active member
Sep 2, 2020
584
395
Oxford
It would be nice if there was a manufacturer that produced a generic modular frame that, coupled with an adaptor plate, could use any motor.

I don’t quite understand why we’re still getting excited over carbon frames. It’s not exactly new technology. It should be a given that the frame is carbon.
What I’d like to see is more detail info on the manufacture method of these frames ie type of cloth, layup, pre-preg or wet etc plus associated FE analysis of the frame.
I work in an industry where we make our waste bins from carbon so let’s stop pretending it’s something special.
 

Zimmerframe

MUPPET
Subscriber
Jun 12, 2019
14,005
20,762
Brittany, France
Another Cheeky Cheeber for anyone who's missed it .

 

Animalector

Active member
Jan 2, 2021
53
83
Cairns, Australia
I think that Bafang have detuned this motor and I reckon its capable of a fair bit more. But as its aimed at the euro market no doubt they've turned the power down a fair bit (its a very similar design to the peddle M600 motor that is way more powerful).

I have had both the M500 and M600 apart on the bench next to each other, and they are nearly identical. The M600 has a different # teeth on the primary drive to the metal reduction gear (M500 is metal to plastic), but otherwise the gears and bearings are all the same internally from what I could tell.. The M600 has a wider stator for more current capacity in the motor.. otherwise the same. I agree, the M500 would be capable of more, BUT.... I think it has what it needs, I haven't found it lacking for power, and very rarely ride in Level 5 (of 5). Usually I'm in 2 or 3... hmm ok, level 4 if I am lazy... :ROFLMAO:

Andy
 

Rob Rides EMTB

Administrator
Staff member
Subscriber
Jan 14, 2018
6,260
13,696
Surrey, UK
I have had both the M500 and M600 apart on the bench next to each other, and they are nearly identical. The M600 has a different # teeth on the primary drive to the metal reduction gear (M500 is metal to plastic), but otherwise the gears and bearings are all the same internally from what I could tell.. The M600 has a wider stator for more current capacity in the motor.. otherwise the same. I agree, the M500 would be capable of more, BUT.... I think it has what it needs, I haven't found it lacking for power, and very rarely ride in Level 5 (of 5). Usually I'm in 2 or 3... hmm ok, level 4 if I am lazy... :ROFLMAO:

Andy
Good info thanks for sharing.

The M500 definitely is not lacking in power. I think its slightly less powerful than the Bosch Gen4; I'll do a back to back test vs my Trek rail. But I suspect some of this is down to the firmware / motor programming. Bosch has this instant kick of power since they updated the Gen4 firmware to 85Nm. Whereas the Bafang needs a few more RPM to get going.

Really like what Bafang are doing though with these motors and I can see a bright future for home / DIY builders with this drive unit.
 

patdam

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2019
889
598
france
I have had both the M500 and M600 apart on the bench next to each other, and they are nearly identical. The M600 has a different # teeth on the primary drive to the metal reduction gear (M500 is metal to plastic), but otherwise the gears and bearings are all the same internally from what I could tell.. The M600 has a wider stator for more current capacity in the motor.. otherwise the same. I agree, the M500 would be capable of more, BUT.... I think it has what it needs, I haven't found it lacking for power, and very rarely ride in Level 5 (of 5). Usually I'm in 2 or 3... hmm ok, level 4 if I am lazy... :ROFLMAO:

Andy

hi andy. I am agree with you for the motor, less sensation than shimano (that i know) but more efficient. Happy to see you here. I have seen your returns on endlessphere and you seem to have great experiency on bafang M. All your recomendations to newbe builder are welcome
 

Waynemarlow

E*POWAH Master
Dec 6, 2019
1,107
888
Bucks
Whereas the Bafang needs a few more RPM to get going.
Its a balance for the manufacturers to have minimum weight and longevity of the gears ( motors and electronics are probably now more reliable than the bits taking all the strain such as the gear train ), I would suggest Bafang have taken the option of only feeding in power once the bike is moving to lower the all up weight and still have a very quiet engine.

You could in theory reduce significantly the size and weight of the gears if you were prepared to only allow the motor to put in power once the gears were actually moving at speed, ( think CVT gearbox's ) as the max stress on the gear is full power from the motor at 0 rpm. Once the gears are rotating, then you can really start to input a lot more power, as the engagement becomes spread over a number of gear faces rather than the single face of one tooth ( for Gary, technically yes its always one tooth only, but as the gears move it becomes only a brief moment in time before another gear also is engaged, its a long technical story to do with pressure, friction and heat on plastic ).

On the TSDZ2 when they hacked it, it was one of the first things they did, the motor has to be rotating at least 120 degrees before allowing motor power to reduce the loading on the one bit that was commonly failing, the plastic gear. Have I damaged a gear since, no, so I guess there's logic and track record to the reasoning to why Bafang slowly ramp up the motor only once its rotating, after all they have in the many millions of BB series out there for a very long time, all racking up millions of cycles in use, as their test bed.

Sorry Rob, you're just going to have to man up and put a bit more effort in to get off the line with the Bafangs :)
 

InRustWeTrust

E*POWAH Master
Mar 9, 2020
524
758
Sweden
really nice bike, correct me if I am wrong but surely all Bafang motors are illegal and do more than 250 watts? I have in mind that when I checked Bafang they had no engine that was legal from what I could find.
 

Pivot

E*POWAH Master
Jun 11, 2020
668
1,088
New Forest, England
really nice bike, correct me if I am wrong but surely all Bafang motors are illegal and do more than 250 watts? I have in mind that when I checked Bafang they had no engine that was legal from what I could find.

The power output is electronically controlled and restricted to comply with specific requirements.
Most motors are capable of much higher output. It’s the same with motorcycles, cars and trucks.
It is just more efficient to manufacture one strong motor in large numbers and moderate its output through electronic throttle, to fit specific market condition.
 

apac

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Aug 14, 2019
1,326
1,173
S.Wales
Motors are usually rated by their 'continuous' power capability. Meaning, what power they can put out without a break all day and not overheat or get damaged. The peak power they can put out is another thing altogether. I once had a hub motor that was rated at 6000w continuous, but i would use it up to 16,000w of peak power. I also had another rated at just 1500w but It could be run up to 10,000w without any issues.
 
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Doug Stampfer

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2018
737
756
NZ
I'm not sure I missed it but was there a weight comparison between this frame & motor only compared to a different brand carbon or ali bike?
 

Animalector

Active member
Jan 2, 2021
53
83
Cairns, Australia
hmm, indeed not the same.. could be the same internals, in a different case. That's some serious investment in tooling. I've been thinking about the "light weight" enduro rather than going bigger more powerful. I think this is where we'll end up long-term. I am very keen to see A Forestal in the flesh.
1356415d1597260296-diy-e-gravel-m800-motor.jpg
 

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