Who's had COVID?

[Stihldog]

Medical, cultural, religious, tribal, political, government conspiracy, mis-information, non-Vaxer’s, and on and on. The choice of not taking a vaccine for this disease can be personal and endless. I’ve only a few close family and friends who have chosen not to take the vaccine.
I’ve been with my wife while she is confronted, (imo, confronted), and she can only offer up the information that is available to her, which can be evolving and extensive. I admire her patience. I believe that her hope is to get control of this disease and end the spread. There’s been many late night tears but she continues on.
Some of these reasons (or maybe most) are psychological. This is beyond my understanding but my personal solution would likely be viewed as being passive-aggressive and probably not a solution at all.

The end of this chaos is within reach but the final push is seeing the most resistance and may involve extreme measures. I’m gonna get ready for the 6th wave.

 

[LevoRoboto]

My wife had been vax'd with Moderna - she caught COVID after a woman's philanthropy group event. I contracted COVID from her even though I had the Pfizer vax in April with follow jab as prescribed. After lunch last week this is what onset looked like via my Garmin watch.

My resting HR is 52, and at 4 PM I'm doing over 100 BPM sitting in a chair. I felt genuine impending doom. I tested positive by two different COVID testing methods.

After a night of hellish pain, I contacted a doctor who prescribed ivermectin. I took two doses, one Friday mid-morning and the last on Sunday. I had no COVID symptoms on Sunday, but took the last dose anyway. My wife's doctor, who is not the same as mine also prescribed ivermectin, and had similar results. The dose cost us $25 each. I took a COVID test on Tuesday "to see" and am negative.

The role of ivermectin is not understood in treating COVID, however, this is a good article written by doctors posted to the NIH. Review of the Emerging Evidence Demonstrating the Efficacy of Ivermectin in the Prophylaxis and Treatment of COVID-19

I have many doctors in my social circle. The role of this drug in treating COVID is a decisive topic within the medical community. One group, who includes a leading ICU specialist and an ID doctor practicing in Africa call patients like my wife & I, "the 48 hour turn-around". They see this outcome routinely, although it is not always the case. Other doctors dismiss ivermectin as a parasite treatment, and will not prescribe it.

I am a science guy and I could give AF about politics. My friends have died from this virus. We consider ourselves lucky to have been cared for by progressive doctors. There are too many variables to understand why we had this outcome, and a bewildering number of questions.

Today, my wife and I can't taste or smell a thing. We're going for a long gravel ride tomorrow and grateful for our good fortune.

 

[TPEHAK]

Vaccination has been proven to reduce the infection rate of Covid, so by being vaccinated you are not only protecting yourself but you are protecting others. Particularly those who have a genuine reason for not being vaccinated.

While it is entirely anyone's right to refuse vaccination, with rights come responsibility and consequences and the consequence of refusing to be vaccinated for no good reason is that people will think you are a selfish c**t.

 

[Zimmerframe]

We're probably all being a bit hard and unsympathetic towards you @carlbiker, whilst you lie there half dead sharing your pain with us.

My excuse is I'm a dick Hope you're feeling much better soon and you and the family come through this unscathed.

 

[Mikerb]

Sadly very little happens these days that is devoid of either political opportunism or corporate financial influence.............very often those two are intrinsically linked. The pandemic is/was no exception with the pharmaceutical industry being the corporate influence and globalist/nanny state being the political influence ( I leave you to decide which part of the political divide that is!).

It makes it difficult for all of us to separate fact from "narrative" especially when most of mainstream media are possibly the absolute worse sources of reliable information. The article by the BBC quoted a few posts above about Invermectin is a classic example. Written by two journalists with no medical qualifications cherry picking elements of an article written by a group of scientists ......where the lead author was in fact a student!.......about their research into Invermectin........research that referenced no source data, and that is neither published let alone peer reviewed. One of its conclusions, gleefully quoted by the BBC, was that all meta research ( ie a combination of several individual published/peer reviewed studies) could only be trusted if that meta analysis used only original personal data information. That is of course totally untenable and only ever rarely been done. It basically says that all Meta Data research used to qualify and authorise medical treatments for the last several decades should be discarded!!

There is "proper" meta data analysis of Invermectin however that is published and peer reviewed. As is normal, scientific debate continues to discuss those results which are promising but not conclusive.
What is not in dispute however because it is well recorded, is that Merck who developed Invermectin, issued more than 2 million doses, mostly in developing countries (not as a Covid treatment) and harm/side effects were very low. ( Every drug including commonplace non prescription drugs like aspirin and Ibuproven have some side effects for some people).

Sadly Merck declined the opportunity to run a pharmaceutical led study of Invermectin, possibly because the patent has now expired on Invermectin so there is no commercial imperative for Merck.

The same political and corporate finance interests impact on a complete range of potential therapeutic treatments. Most existing treatments that may ( or may not) be useful for the treatment of Covid are cheap and readilly available. Newly developed drugs and vaccines are of course expensive and highly profitable.

The big exception to the a bove is of course the AZ Oxford vaccine which is produced at cost..........and uses the same process as many other vaccines in common use. The MRNA vaccines are hugely more expensive and of course utilize a new development process. I leave you to draw your own conclusions from that.

Other aspects that are often neglected when discussing the pandemic are the social, economic and mental health impacts of both lockdowns and constant media focus on public health statistics. There comes a time when the negative impact of measures designed to control the pandemic outweigh any positive effect they have on the population.

Trying to separate the fact from political/corporate narratives my conclusions have been:-

1. The AZ vaccine is a commonsense precaution that I have had without reservation
2. Being sensible a bout close social contact most especially in indoor environments and involving strangers is highly advisable.
3. I am less happy a bout having a MRNA booster but at 70 years old the potential benefits outweigh the risk.
4. I believe the UK ( well England anyway) has struck the right balance in terms of personal freedoms, unlocking the economy and focusing on booster jabs and jabs for school children. In essence people know by now how best to protect themselves and others, so it is now a bout personal responsibility rather than government mandate. Sadly that means running the gauntlet at times with those that believe they are invincible but that is inevitable in any society. The alternative is an authoritarian state.
5. The NHS has approved remdesivir and monoclodal antibody (Ronapreve.......very expensive)) dexamethasone ( low cost) for clinical use and between them they are making a big difference in outcomes. Treatments available for those self medicating at home are expected to be approved in the autumn. So it seems to me good progress is being made and I will feel more confident a bout letting down my guard any further when those home treatements are available.
6. Lastly, it is not advisable to be guided in any way by singular results whether that be someone making a miraculous recovery after taking a specific drug or someone dying as a presumed result of a vaccine. No singular event is proof of anything!!

 

[Jimbo Vills]

I’ll get my coat…..

 

[Chicane]

Wow, most of you guys better make sure your neighbor is also wearing a condom, or otherwise you may catch a disease or get your wife/girlfriend pregnant during sex. Then again if CNN told you that you could get your boyfriend pregnant, it sounds like most of you would believe them.

There’s a clear reason why 870 Los Angeles Firefighters filed a lawsuit last week against the City of LA against the vaccine mandate, but hey, they are ALL selfish, right. After all they don’t see anything medical related first hand!

What, nothing mentioned about all the front line medical workers who quit their job or were fired, because they don’t want to put this experimental shot into their OWN body? I guess they must be selfish and also falling for all the second hand propaganda as several of you mentioned.

If you were to ask the majority of Americans they would tell you that the Pfizer vaccine has been FDA approved in the States, why because the news said so. The truth is, it still hasn’t been approved in America, but hard workers are being fired from their job over lies. After all Federal law ALWAYS overrides State law, so the lawsuits are going to get good.

 

[Pivot]

Sadly very little happens these days that is devoid of either political opportunism or corporate financial influence.............very often those two are intrinsically linked. The pandemic is/was no exception with the pharmaceutical industry being the corporate influence and globalist/nanny state being the political influence ( I leave you to decide which part of the political divide that is!).

It makes it difficult for all of us to separate fact from "narrative" especially when most of mainstream media are possibly the absolute worse sources of reliable information. The article by the BBC quoted a few posts above about Invermectin is a classic example. Written by two journalists with no medical qualifications cherry picking elements of an article written by a group of scientists ......where the lead author was in fact a student!.......about their research into Invermectin........research that referenced no source data, and that is neither published let alone peer reviewed. One of its conclusions, gleefully quoted by the BBC, was that all meta research ( ie a combination of several individual published/peer reviewed studies) could only be trusted if that meta analysis used only original personal data information. That is of course totally untenable and only ever rarely been done. It basically says that all Meta Data research used to qualify and authorise medical treatments for the last several decades should be discarded!!

There is "proper" meta data analysis of Invermectin however that is published and peer reviewed. As is normal, scientific debate continues to discuss those results which are promising but not conclusive.
What is not in dispute however because it is well recorded, is that Merck who developed Invermectin, issued more than 2 million doses, mostly in developing countries (not as a Covid treatment) and harm/side effects were very low. ( Every drug including commonplace non prescription drugs like aspirin and Ibuproven have some side effects for some people).

Sadly Merck declined the opportunity to run a pharmaceutical led study of Invermectin, possibly because the patent has now expired on Invermectin so there is no commercial imperative for Merck.

The same political and corporate finance interests impact on a complete range of potential therapeutic treatments. Most existing treatments that may ( or may not) be useful for the treatment of Covid are cheap and readilly available. Newly developed drugs and vaccines are of course expensive and highly profitable.

The big exception to the a bove is of course the AZ Oxford vaccine which is produced at cost..........and uses the same process as many other vaccines in common use. The MRNA vaccines are hugely more expensive and of course utilize a new development process. I leave you to draw your own conclusions from that.

Other aspects that are often neglected when discussing the pandemic are the social, economic and mental health impacts of both lockdowns and constant media focus on public health statistics. There comes a time when the negative impact of measures designed to control the pandemic outweigh any positive effect they have on the population.

Trying to separate the fact from political/corporate narratives my conclusions have been:-

1. The AZ vaccine is a commonsense precaution that I have had without reservation
2. Being sensible a bout close social contact most especially in indoor environments and involving strangers is highly advisable.
3. I am less happy a bout having a MRNA booster but at 70 years old the potential benefits outweigh the risk.
4. I believe the UK ( well England anyway) has struck the right balance in terms of personal freedoms, unlocking the economy and focusing on booster jabs and jabs for school children. In essence people know by now how best to protect themselves and others, so it is now a bout personal responsibility rather than government mandate. Sadly that means running the gauntlet at times with those that believe they are invincible but that is inevitable in any society. The alternative is an authoritarian state.
5. The NHS has approved remdesivir and monoclodal antibody (Ronapreve.......very expensive)) dexamethasone ( low cost) for clinical use and between them they are making a big difference in outcomes. Treatments available for those self medicating at home are expected to be approved in the autumn. So it seems to me good progress is being made and I will feel more confident a bout letting down my guard any further when those home treatements are available.
6. Lastly, it is not advisable to be guided in any way by singular results whether that be someone making a miraculous recovery after taking a specific drug or someone dying as a presumed result of a vaccine. No singular event is proof of anything!!

Well articulated @Mikerb

 

[Sherman]

There’s a clear reason why 870 Los Angeles Firefighters filed a lawsuit last week against the City of LA against the vaccine mandate, but hey, they are ALL selfish, right. After all they don’t see anything medical related first hand!

I guess they rather take the $2M each they are asking for in the law suit instead of the vaccine.

Wasn't Pfizer FDA approved Aug 23rd, 2021?

 

[Chicane]

I guess they rather take the $2M each they are asking for in the law suit instead of the vaccine.

Wasn't Pfizer FDA approved Aug 23rd, 2021?

Apparently not in the US. Just another lie to deceive the public.

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[RustyMTB]

What, nothing mentioned about all the front line medical workers who quit their job or were fired, because they don’t want to put this experimental shot into their OWN body? I guess they must be selfish and also falling for all the second hand propaganda as several of you mentioned.

The politics of this or that authority mandating vaccines for cohorts of workers is a matter for the people concerned. The notion that the vaccine is experimental, put about at every opportunity and usually without explanation by the anti vax guys is simply not true.

And if you disagree with me @Chicane then I will be pleased to listen to your reasoning.

 

[PenSki]

Wow, most of you guys better make sure your neighbor is also wearing a condom, or otherwise you may catch a disease or get your wife/girlfriend pregnant during sex. Then again if CNN told you that you could get your boyfriend pregnant, it sounds like most of you would believe them.

There’s a clear reason why 870 Los Angeles Firefighters filed a lawsuit last week against the City of LA against the vaccine mandate, but hey, they are ALL selfish, right. After all they don’t see anything medical related first hand!

What, nothing mentioned about all the front line medical workers who quit their job or were fired, because they don’t want to put this experimental shot into their OWN body? I guess they must be selfish and also falling for all the second hand propaganda as several of you mentioned.

If you were to ask the majority of Americans they would tell you that the Pfizer vaccine has been FDA approved in the States, why because the news said so. The truth is, it still hasn’t been approved in America, but hard workers are being fired from their job over lies. After all Federal law ALWAYS overrides State law, so the lawsuits are going to get good.

Pfizer approval is on the FDA website. So what on earth are you talking about?

 

[Jimbo Vills]

I guess they rather take the $2M each they are asking for in the law suit instead of the vaccine.

Wasn't Pfizer FDA approved Aug 23rd, 2021?

They did indeed. Yet the US had ordered (and I’m assuming administered shortly after by then) 300m doses by Feb…. Seven months prior to your own governing body signing it off.

Yet the Pro Vaxers ‘who must be obeyed’ brigade dont want to listen to someone who might have general reservations about accepting a vaccine that’s been rolled out so quickly with limited clinical trials and almost zero historical data. Yet people get flamed for having this opinion and all I constantly see on here is them being classed as the conspiracy wankers and selfish anti society idiots.

To me it seems mad that so many have blindly accepted it’s safe so early, just because the government and media are telling them so. It’s almost as bad as the tin foil hat crew believing the nonsense on Facebook.

Do I trust the best minds in science, yes. Do I trust pharmaceutical corporations and governments, Eh, no. Let’s face it their track records are plain to see. I also believe that the death toll and impact some have had from the vaccine is being papered over.

And before anyone jumps down my throat and accuses me of conspiracies theories, try telling the two kids my wife is currently re homing as their mum died suddenly of covid type symptoms 4 days after her jab there isn’t negative side effects.

As we move further down the time line it’s fair to say though the vaccine has been a massive success and the UK government early actions are commendable imo and have helped getting life somewhat back to normal. The success v side effect clearly outweighed

It’s obviously reducing the severity of it and reducing the death toll which is amazing. But numbers are higher than I think we all expected with infection rate here in the uk almost as high as the 2nd wave.

I know more people catching it after the vaccine than prior so although it’s clearly helping all our immunity people who’ve been vax’d are now the majority so must be playing a big part in spreading it whilst accusing the non vax’d of fucking it up for everyone else. The irony.

I caught covid before I was eligible for the vaccine but had reservations of it at that point. I’m not a huge believe in taking antibiotics and vaccines anyway as humans were perfectly fine for hundred of thousands of years so I do believe in trying to build a natural immune system. I must have a natural immunity to it so I never saw the point in rushing to have the vaccine.

That said as things calm down I’m more inclined to have it. But that’s more to do with the restrictions and travel bans that’s slowly emerging. Not that I agree with this way of forcing people but it is what it is…..

Well that’s my Saturday morning coffee thoughts on it all anyway

 

[Pivot]

Politics aside, I find it funny that people who are violently opposed to GM food are happy to accept MRNA injections.
Personally, I am pleased that AZ was available to most people in the UK.

 

[Chicane]

The politics of this or that authority mandating vaccines for cohorts of workers is a matter for the people concerned. The notion that the vaccine is experimental, put about at every opportunity and usually without explanation by the anti vax guys is simply not true.

And if you disagree with me @Chicane then I will be pleased to listen to your reasoning.

My decision to not get the vaccine right now isn’t about you or anyone else’s thoughts or opinions and I’m not disagreeing with you. It’s as simple as ME not wanting to put this into my healthy body and to assume/ label those that feel the same as ani vax (like we are all be labeled) is a reckless assumption. Again just generalizing what’s going on.

The hero’s of yesterday are now reckless villains/ outcasts of today, because they want to decide what goes into their own bodies.

You guys are grilling Carl on here for a treatment that actually works and has been administered to Congress and on their family members, but you won’t hear a peep about it being effective, because obviously penny’s don’t pay. Then all of a sudden a new pill pops up with a big money charge and it’s going to be the NEW savior? Talking about nothing but politics.

 

[grimmprincess]

Why did I come into this post? I knew it was going to make me angry.

 

[RustyMTB]

My decision to not get the vaccine right now isn’t about you or anyone else’s thoughts or opinions and I’m not disagreeing with you. It’s as simple as ME not wanting to put this into my healthy body and to assume/ label those that feel the same as ani vax (like we are all be labeled) is a reckless assumption. Again just generalizing what’s going on.

The hero’s of yesterday are now reckless villains/ outcasts of today, because they want to decide what goes into their own bodies.

You guys are grilling Carl on here for a treatment that actually works and has been administered to Congress and on their family members, but you won’t hear a peep about it being effective, because obviously penny’s don’t pay. Then all of a sudden a new pill pops up with a big money charge and it’s going to be the NEW savior? Talking about nothing but politics.

Fair. I note you declined to answer the question.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Why did I come into this post? I knew it was going to make me angry.

You wanted to get Angry ?

You weren't sure if it would help you get less Angry ? You convinced yourself there would be sound reasoning and you wouldn't get Angry, but you ended up getting Angry anyway ?

You knew it was inevitable that you'd get angry, but at least by coming here first, you didn't get as angry as you could have ?

There's no such thing as Angry, Angry was made up by people who weren't happy.

We've learnt a lot about anger management, but now that we have the ability to potentially make people less angry, everyones forgotten about anger management, so are all getting angry, even if they're not expressing their anger, and making everyone else angry whether they've had anger therapy or not.

 

[PenSki]

We all take risks every day of varying proportion. After the application of approx 7 billion covid vaccines, I believe they are low risk. Now riding my EMTB flat out through the forest - that is risky.

 

[#lazy]

When you add up the man hours of testing these vaccines have probably been the most scrutinised drugs ever made !

 

[RustyMTB]

Anti vax people are nothing new. They've been about since Jenner. This is a well referenced history. Some of the sceptics should read up.

History of Anti-Vaccination Movements

Though many consider vaccination a top public health achievement of modern medicine, opposition to vaccination dates back to its introduction in the early 1800s.

www.historyofvaccines.org

The arguments against are always flimsy. It's experimental. It's not. MRNA is a 30 year old technology. in the current regime, it involves inserting the DNA from a Covid spike protein into a harmless Adenovirus, thereby training the immune system into recognising & killing the Coronavirus.

It's untested/rushed/without data. No, a superhuman effort was made to put it through all the trial stages concurrently, compressing a ten year time scale into months. Human ingenuity at work.

It causes blood clots. Yes, in about 1 in 50,000 people, halving to 1 in 100,000 in the over 50's. Anti vax headbangers amplify this to the point of certitude in order to shore up their position., discounting the rarity & thereby distorting the reality.

The recovery rate is 99%, we don't need vaccines., No it isn't, it's much lower & the side effects of Covid are highly risky.

I know someone who took the vaccine & still got covid days later. Yeah, no vaccine is a force field & immunity doesn't occur overnight.

This information is so public that the only logical conclusion is people are choosing to ignore it for reasons varying from a victim complex, which we see in here - xyz is being flamed unfairly etc. etc. A general distrust of authority, which imo is no bad thing but only within actual reason and wilful ignorance to the point of rank illogicality.

 

[Chicane]

Fair. I note you declined to answer the question.

I don’t see a question mark. Your question is?

 

[Jimbo Vills]

Anti vax people are nothing new. They've been about since Jenner. This is a well referenced history. Some of the sceptics should read up.

History of Anti-Vaccination Movements

Though many consider vaccination a top public health achievement of modern medicine, opposition to vaccination dates back to its introduction in the early 1800s.

www.historyofvaccines.org

The arguments against are always flimsy. It's experimental. It's not. MRNA is a 30 year old technology. in the current regime, it involves inserting the DNA from a Covid spike protein into a harmless Adenovirus, thereby training the immune system into recognising & killing the Coronavirus.

It's untested/rushed/without data. No, a superhuman effort was made to put it through all the trial stages concurrently, compressing a ten year time scale into months. Human ingenuity at work.

It causes blood clots. Yes, in about 1 in 50,000 people, halving to 1 in 100,000 in the over 50's. Anti vax headbangers amplify this to the point of certitude in order to shore up their position., discounting the rarity & thereby distorting the reality.

The recovery rate is 99%, we don't need vaccines., No it isn't, it's much lower & the side effects of Covid are highly risky.

I know someone who took the vaccine & still got covid days later. Yeah, no vaccine is a force field & immunity doesn't occur overnight.

This information is so public that the only logical conclusion is people are choosing to ignore it for reasons varying from a victim complex, which we see in here - xyz is being flamed unfairly etc. etc. A general distrust of authority, which imo is no bad thing but only within actual reason and wilful ignorance to the point of rank illogicality.

Guess you putting me down for the victim complex

Mate you make valid points. Most of which I don’t disagree but you sound like a pro-vax head banger as much as the anti vax head bangers you describe

And you can say all you like about the huge effort and testing that was remarkable in getting this vaccine to market but you can’t deny it does not have historical data. Because it’s new!!

I’ve worked in large pharmaceutical companies inc Glaxo HQ and the new Astra Zeneca building in Cambridge.

The one thing they care about most is ££££ and if you think this monumental effort by them to get their product to market 1st was for the good of mankind then you are as delusional as the anti vax headbangers you want to label everyone as.

 

[RustyMTB]

I don’t see a question mark. Your question is?

You, along with a couple of others asserted the vaccine is 'experimental'. I'd like to know what you mean by that & what your evidence is. The post was easy enough to understand, I thought.

 

[Jimbo Vills]

You, along with a couple of others asserted the vaccine is 'experimental'. I'd like to know what you mean by that & what your evidence is. The post was easy enough to understand, I thought.

I’d just like to clarify I don’t consider it experimental. It’s merely an offered solution to a problem. An effective one at that. Maybe not as effective at prevention of spreading as we initially thought. But certainly in reducing impact for those infected

But not without risk. And if you are perfectly healthy, have had covid and therefore a natural immunity in your body. Then I see that as a logical and rational reason to hold fire on the vaccine. For now

 

[Chicane]

What was the need for Vaccine trials a few months ago. I bet that 14 year old now in a wheel chair and her family have a different opinion than yours. Then again if you want to believe these people pictured have your best interest and are looking out for your health, keep on believing.

 

[RustyMTB]

OK @Chicane it's clear you can't or won't answer a simple question. I've asked twice & you're reduced to punting tedious insta conspiracy memes & anecdotes, so as it's Saturday morning here & I have better things to do, I'm leaving you to it.

Save to say the wholly predictable discourse with the anti loonies is always a shape shifting slipperiness. Disabuse one argument, they seamlessly move onto another. It's an experimental vaccine - here's why it isn't....Pause...OK, it's all about big Pharma, big dollar. The scientists are in league with government to oppress YOU, John Q Citizen. Look at this kid in a wheelchair.

Christ, take a look at yourselves, lads.

I got no more use for this guy.

 

[Chicane]

OK @Chicane it's clear you can't or won't answer a simple question. I've asked twice & you're reduced to punting tedious insta conspiracy memes & anecdotes, so as it's Saturday morning here & I have better things to do, I'm leaving you to it.

I got no more use for this guy.

View attachment 73885

If You don’t know the outcome of something and it can have roughly 15 side effects, then I can clearly be known or called experimental. Kinda like when a Dr gives you a medication and has no idea if it’s going to work or effect you the same as his last patient, then you can call it experimental or trying something. Then again I’ve watched Dr’s basically experiment on my wife several times over the past few weeks during her two different Hospital visits/stays and the 4-6 different antibiotics they gave her due to all the different reactions each one had. So ya, experimental can be a correct term when it comes to medicine. This is also a good reason why NO one should be told what THEY need to put into their OWN bodies!

 

[Doomanic]

15 side effects? Pah! Amateur! Have you checked the list of known side effects for aspirin?

 

[Chicane]

15 side effects? Pah! Amateur! Have you checked the list of known side effects for aspirin?

Have you seen the death rate and health issues from putting Asprin into your body? I bet they differ just a bit from this shot that’s being forced.