LA Fires - Who's been Affected?

[Stihldog]

I believe we had two of the Martin Mars water bombers based out of Srout Lake on Vancouver Island. The others were in California and Australia.

The Martin Mars Water Bomber: A Legacy in Aerial Firefighting

The Martin Mars water bomber, a legendary aircraft with a rich history, has made an indelible mark on aerial firefighting.

totalprepare.ca

6000 gals of water during a single drop and very impressive to watch. The smaller water bombers used in the California fires drop 1500 gallons. There’s advantages to both.

Our use during fires were mainly helicopters fixed with Bambi Buckets and the Martin Mars water bombers. A guided path was determined by the “Bird-Dog”, followed by the Martin Mars moments later. Fire fighting crews would need to be evacuated from the area.

The amount of coordination in the Cali fires would be immense. So many factors to consider.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I believe we had two of the Martin Mars water bombers based out of Srout Lake on Vancouver Island.

I've followed those over the years. I think Hawaii Mars was recently retired and Philippine Mars has just been renovated, though not sure it will be returning to service.

Amazing planes, the walk throughs are interesting.

 

[Stihldog]

I've followed those over the years. I think Hawaii Mars was recently retired and Philippine Mars has just been renovated, though not sure it will be returning to service.

Amazing planes, the walk throughs are interesting.

I’ve never done a walk through but I heard that some of framing is wood? They are old after all.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I’ve never done a walk through but I heard that some of framing is wood? They are old after all.

Everything I remember seeing was metal, but that doesn't mean some of it wasn't wood. No reason why not, it has it's advantages and disadvantages. We like wood !

 

[Downhillr]

My original hometown and foothills trail stomping grounds are up in flames and the devastation is still ongoing. While I've been safely perched on rain-soaked soil and green hills of the Bay Area that has been my home for decades now, I'm swept up by this travesty just the same. All that rain in the PNW over the last couple of months never made down to SoCal. My extended family is safe, but folks with just one degree of separation from me and them have lost their homes and livelihoods. And the trails I used to ride there will never be same. Who else of the forum has been affected that would like to share their thoughts or trail experiences out there?

I spent my middle & high school years in Sierra Madre and also have lived in SF Bay area for years. I have friends in SoCal who fortunately have avoided the devastation of the current fires although they are traumatized by the scope and anticipated after-effects.

 

[Downhillr]

I'm sure it's not "simple". But I was drawn to the proposal that well-meaning "greenies" actually caused a much worse problem. Haven't native American Indians, for thousands of years, been carrying out controlled burning to keep down the scrub to prevent such an intense fire happening? They accepted that forest fires couldn't be stopped, just made less worse. But of course, the educated civilised modern folk know better.

Historically, many if the areas currently burning were not populated by multiple millions of human inhabitants living in burnable structures extending there occupancy into forests and scrublands and planting decorative vegetation.
That, combined with an historic weather event (extreme wet winter fostering increased grassland and underbrush growth followed by extreme dry Spring-Fall period accompanied by stronger, more consistent Santa Ana wind conditions) led to this perfect storm. Unless you have lived in or visited the vast area involved it is difficult to fathom what a potential tinderbox it is and simply blaming “greenies”, “forest management”, “water policies” etc.. is naive.

 

[steve_sordy]

Historically, many if the areas currently burning were not populated by multiple millions of human inhabitants living in burnable structures extending there occupancy into forests and scrublands and planting decorative vegetation.
That, combined with an historic weather event (extreme wet winter fostering increased grassland and underbrush growth followed by extreme dry Spring-Fall period accompanied by stronger, more consistent Santa Ana wind conditions) led to this perfect storm. Unless you have lived in or visited the vast area involved it is difficult to fathom what a potential tinderbox it is and simply blaming “greenies”, “forest management”, “water policies” etc.. is naive.

I agree that it is difficult to fathom. But if it such a potential tinderbox then why the lack of preventive measures. Or is this a one in a million event? I suspect not. I suspect that now that all the horses have escaped, the stable door will be well and truly bolted shut before the insurance companies will release money for rebuilding.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I agree that it is difficult to fathom. But if it such a potential tinderbox then why the lack of preventive measures. Or is this a one in a million event? I suspect not. I suspect that now that all the horses have escaped, the stable door will be well and truly bolted shut before the insurance companies will release money for rebuilding.

You really need to stop listing to the constant BS that everyone is just sitting on their arses doing nothing, whilst probably looking at pretty flowers and smoking happy sticks waiting for Rome to burn. You're an intelligent man - clearly that's not the case !

It's a VAST area ! It's constantly changing. I had a fire at mine last year, despite daily management of everyting. For a week it kept re-igniting as the fire travelled underground. Rain actually made it worse as it kept puncturing the surface so air then got in and off it went again. Fire can be infinitely unpredictable !

Please watch this. Ignore the political sides and frustrations. It starts with the Musk interview, then skip the none chat bit and jump to 3:37 for the interview with the Fire Marshall.

 

[Mabman]

The west coast of the U.S. has certainly been having its share of fires whether within forestlands or urban areas. As Steve suggests there are some preventive measures that can be taken going forward but it doesn't do much good for existing structures like the ones tragically lost in this recent event.
However it will be a good idea if while rebuilding the area they do pay attention to any preventive measures possible. This popped up on my YT feed today:

 

[Zimmerframe]

The west coast of the U.S. has certainly been having its share of fires whether within forestlands or urban areas. As Steve suggests there are some preventive measures that can be taken going forward but it doesn't do much good for existing structures like the ones tragically lost in this recent event.
However it will be a good idea if while rebuilding the area they do pay attention to any preventive measures possible. This popped up on my YT feed today:

I saw that too !

Though there's a huge amount of luck also involved !!!!!

The new built house was lucky in that the house on one side had been demolished before the fire, so it had a natural fire break. That's not to diminish the relevance of many of the points raised though.

Tom was equally lucky, though several of the surrounding houses were also ok.

Hopefully they'll look at a lot of the surviving structures and change codes accordingly (though already strict I believe in that area)

Ultimately, property density is high as it's a desirable place to live.

Maybe all pools should also be plumbed into a hydrant network/secondary network. Nearly all the pools in the burnt out areas still seem to be full. Would give a pretty vast amount of additional emergency temporary water supply which is more accessible than running through a property with your 100m hose and pump unit to try and pump it out then moving to the next etc etc .. (yes, you'd need suction hoses to goto the appliance/pump unit and couldn't just connect your hose, but it's still an accessible source)

 

[irie]

You really need to stop listing to the constant BS that everyone is just sitting on their arses doing nothing, whilst probably looking at pretty flowers and smoking happy sticks waiting for Rome to burn. You're an intelligent man - clearly that's not the case !

It's a VAST area ! It's constantly changing. I had a fire at mine last year, despite daily management of everyting. For a week it kept re-igniting as the fire travelled underground. Rain actually made it worse as it kept puncturing the surface so air then got in and off it went again. Fire can be infinitely unpredictable !

Please watch this. Ignore the political sides and frustrations. It starts with the Musk interview, then skip the none chat bit and jump to 3:37 for the interview with the Fire Marshall.

Is your house built of concrete, mortar, and stone, or is it built of timber? Just asking.

 

[steve_sordy]

You really need to stop listing to the constant BS that everyone is just sitting on their arses doing nothing, whilst probably looking at pretty flowers and smoking happy sticks waiting for Rome to burn. You're an intelligent man - clearly that's not the case !

It's a VAST area ! It's constantly changing. I had a fire at mine last year, despite daily management of everyting. For a week it kept re-igniting as the fire travelled underground. Rain actually made it worse as it kept puncturing the surface so air then got in and off it went again. Fire can be infinitely unpredictable !

Please watch this. Ignore the political sides and frustrations. It starts with the Musk interview, then skip the none chat bit and jump to 3:37 for the interview with the Fire Marshall.

I watched the video you sent from 3:37 to avoid Musk. Also the one sent by @Mabman. Both were very interesting indeed, with much food for thought. Believe it or not those are the only two vids that I have seen on the LA fires topic. My information so far has been from the BBC and the Sunday Times. Both of those are respected organisations for their intelligent and in-depth reporting of this sort of thing. (Maybe not 100% unbiased for political stuff, but you can't have everything).

I have not been "listening to the constant BS that everyone is just sitting on their arses doing nothing......." I am not on my phone for many hours per day, leaping from one piece of click bait to another.

As I said before, I would expect that the insurance companies, who will have lost a huge amount of money, will not release funds for rebuilding to the same building standards as before. They will also have something to say to the authorities about maintaining water pressure in the mains.
I used to work for a global company who insisted for many years that all their buildings should be able to withstand a once in 200-year rainstorm or snow loading, instead of the more usual 100-year standard. The builders all complained, saying that the cost could not be justified, but as we were paying, they did it. But guess what? In the UK, we had one (rain, not snow) and then another! I assume that those events are now included inside the once in a 100-year events.

Sadly, human history shows us that it takes a disaster to change things. Bridges, tall buildings, ships, building cladding, medicines..................

 

[irie]

.
As I said before, I would expect that the insurance companies, who will have lost a huge amount of money, will not release funds for rebuilding to the same building standards as before.

I would expect insurance companies to release funds for rebuilding. But to refuse to insure the new buildings until or unless what they consider to be appropriate fire control measures are put in place. Or perhaps refuse point blank to insure any buildings, old or new.

 

[Downhillr]

I agree that it is difficult to fathom. But if it such a potential tinderbox then why the lack of preventive measures. Or is this a one in a million event? I suspect not. I suspect that now that all the horses have escaped, the stable door will be well and truly bolted shut before the insurance companies will release money for rebuilding.

I suppose my question would be: What, specifically, are you referring to in “lack of preventative measures”?

 

[Downhillr]

As for insurance companies… in many areas of CA the insurance companies have cancelled (“non-renewal”) homeowners’ policies arbitrarily rather than truly on a risk basis. My former and now non-renewed policy was geld by the state’s largest insurer on a postal zip code basis despite our having spent thousands of dollars for tree removal (seen the size of a redwood?), redesigning yard vegetation spacing from the house and annual grass/brush clearing. These companies are more than willing to issue policies to insure other profitable, less risky items vehicle, theft, etc… case in point: after our non-renewal the same company offered us a policy to cover the balance of everything as before EXCEPT fire coverage and at a new rate above our previous all- inclusive policy while we had to purchase the state provided, limited and very expensive fire coverage… actual net effect, as of Jan 2025 our insurance costs rose from $4,800 annually to over $12,000, for the same coverages! The insurance companies are effectively playing an extortion game with state’s insurance regulators to be allowed to raise their rates to unrealistic levels, utilizing homeowners as hostages in the game.

 

[deertrackdoctor]

From what I have read the Governor (Newsom) wanted to fire the LA Fire chief.

When everything goes tits up the truth gets lost.

Yep the bastards tried to pin the black.e on Grenfell on the fire service ! Like wrapping homes in plastic was not the issue !